Interesting Kucinich(sort of) Bumper Sticker

[NewHampster]

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Except voting for Clinton doesn't get you Kucinich. :^(

[toadzilla]

2. wtf

[NewHampster]

3. Its real and for sale at cafepress

don't blame me I just thought it an interesting sentiment

[gateley]

4. Wonder how sales are doing... nt

[NewHampster]

5. I also wonder

If they mean Dennis or Elizabeth.

[5X]

6. That is just sick. n/t

[CTyankee]

7. No way I dream of Kucinich for anything except to LEAVE.

Enough of his "conversion" to prochoice just 3 months before declaring for 08! The man is an opportunist, pure and simple. His previous anti choice votes are disgusting and people will suffer as a result. He ought to be ashamed of himself, but evidently he has no shame. Has he apologized for those votes against stem cell research or women whose health would be threatened by his PBA votes? Say what you will about Bill Clinton but he VETOED the PBA act because it didn't provide for the health of the woman, but here comes DK who blithely votes against the health of women and then has a sudden "change of heart" only a few months from his candidacy. And DUers hate Bill Clinton and love Dennis Kucinich.

This makes me mad as hell, folks. Sorry if any of you DK supporters don't like it; I have 2 daughters (one who had pre-eclampsia with a pregnancy that threatened her life) and I have 3 granddaughters. NO WAY would I trust their futures to that zealot!

[RevolutionToday]

8. Who's the zealot now?

I think you mean he changed positions three months before 04, cause your post makes even less sense with that mistake.

[rjones2818]

11. Ah...what's four years difference

between friends?

Go Dennis! :woohoo:
http://dennis4president.com
Choose Peace!

[CTyankee]

13. Where do you get 4 years. Iwrote 3 months.

I am going to research this with NARAL and Planned Parenthood, two sources I trust. Will let everyone know what I find out.

[Breeze54]

26. It's already posted on this thread! He supported Naral 100% since 2003!

Dennis Kucinich - D
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=318

Abortion Issues
(Back to top)

2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2006.

2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 56 percent in 2006.

2005-2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Assocation 100 percent in 2005-2006.

2005-2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2005-2006.

2005 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Democrats for Life of America 50 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 22 percent in 2003-2004.

2003 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2003.

[CTyankee]

28. Thanks for the info. It seems that 4 years have intervened. I think that I was reacting also

to the sheer breadth of reproductive rights issues, plus stem cell, where he did a 180. I knew he had voted prolife in the past, however, I thought it was just a matter of a few votes. I'm afraid that my reaction to this turnaround is a hard one for me. I didn't have this problem with Al Gore, BTW, but I did oppose him back when he first put himself in the presidential primary, as I was still wary. He brought me around, however, and I gladly voted for him and Bill.

So I'm stuck on DK's opposition to so many reproductive rights and his breathtaking reversal. It bothers me, perhaps because I see a streak of absolutism in him that I don't trust. I am a rationalist; his conversion just sounds, well, almost evangelistic. Sorry if you feel I SHOULDN'T think this way, but it's me...

[Breeze54]

32. Admitting you were wrong is a brave thing to do but

I didn't say one syllable about what you think at all!!!

"Sorry if you feel I SHOULDN'T think this way, but it's me..."

Perhaps you need to knock that chip off your shoulder.

People change their views all the time! They get more education, information,
life experiences and they change their viewpoints. Why isn't that acceptable
for Kucinich to do? His breathtaking reversal?? Wow.

I wonder if you haven't ever changed your mind about anything in the last six years?

But I have the feeling that even if you have changed your mind (and we all know you did)

you wouldn't admit it.

[CTyankee]

33. Not true. Of course people change their minds, me too.

But the Kucinich thing for me is a hard nut to crack. There is still something about the guy that I find difficult. I was only trying to explain where it was coming from. Now, you may say "wow," and that's fine. I can accept your wow expression because you believe in him quite deeply. I don't disrespect you for believing it. Quite the opposite. I would simply like to put my thinking out there for discussion. Not a chip on my shoulder, just my own ideas which you don't agree with. Va bene, as the Italians say with a shrug...

[Breeze54]

34. I disagreed with your false facts, not your ideas. n/t

[CTyankee]

36. My reference was directly at your reaction to my term "breathtaking reversal".

To you it was not, to me it was. I grant you tht it is subjective. It was my read on what DK did.

[slipslidingaway]

38. Same statement a couple of days ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3606493&mesg_id=3610694

"I am going to personally have a conversation with someone at NARAL. I have worked in the prochoice community for my entire adult life and have many contacts. I will satisfy myself and let everyone know what I find out.

CTyankee"

[CTyankee]

15. Before the 04 or 08 (which is in progress now) campaign, either one. I meant before the current

campaign which is why I wrote 08.

However, if I am wrong, and it was 3 months before the 04 campaign, which I am real happy to check out, the question looms again: can a candidate who was so far gone on the prolife train be that sincere with his conversion of just 3 months? Is is not in the least bit suspect because of its timing? Methinks if this were another candidate opposing DK you would probably take special note, n'est pas?

We make lots of fun when Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani do their public flip flops in the other direction, but look away when our own favorite does it. If that is square with you, fine. But I don't have to like it much. And I have every right to question it. I am a lifelong prochoice advocate and I look long and hard at candidates who are "conversions." I didn't like it when Gore did it, but I didn't support his earlier candidacies because of my doubts. He resolved my issues and I supported him, of course, in 2000. But it took time and I looked very closely at him.

You should look very closely, too, unless, of course you are not a strong prochoicer. If so, I would like to know how you can square that with the core Democratic belief in prochoice and pro reproductive rights.

[Breeze54]

35. You had a point in '04 but not anymore, based on his voting record since then.

Now it is a moot point.

[iverglas]

27. Feminists for Kucinich, 2003

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=3886


His voting record since that time seems to indicate the completeness of his commitment to women's reproductive rights.

I read the statement he issued at the time about his change of mind (but unfortunately can't find it anywhere now). It was apparent to me that -- with or without (I suspect with) some intensive head-bashing -- he had got it.

He didn't get mealy-mouthed about safelegalandrare, and he didn't say abortion is a dreadful thing and god doesn't like it but gosh it has to be legal. His statement referred to women's need for control of their reproductive lives as essential to women's autonomy, and that is the whole thing in a nutshell.

It's what Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in the recent US Supreme Court decision on the so-called partial birth abortion ban: that challenges to restrictions on abortion procedures "do not seek to vindicate some generalized notion of privacy; rather, they center on a woman's autonomy to determine her life's course, and thus to enjoy equal citizenship stature." And it's what Bertha Wilson and other judges of the Supreme Court of Canada said in the 1978 decision striking down Canada's abortion legislation.

And I don't think Kucinich could have said that -- or put his name to someone else's words saying it -- if he didn't get it and hadn't adopted it. A commitment to supporting women's reproductive rights as essential to women's autonomy goes well beyond "safe, legal and rare", which is all he really had to say if he wanted to look pro-choice in the US context.

[Breeze54]

10. I just checked his voting record and I think you're mistaken.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=318">Representative Dennis J. Kucinich (OH)

Abortion Issues
(Back to top)

2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2006.

2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 56 percent in 2006.

2005-2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Assocation 100 percent in 2005-2006.

2005-2006 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2005-2006.

2005 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the Democrats for Life of America 50 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 22 percent in 2003-2004.

2003 Representative Kucinich supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2003.

[TahitiNut]

25. The Kucinich-bashers can't argue on the facts and issues.

So, they engage in sneering and misinformation. :shrug: It's pitiful.

[cali]

14. That' s not true.

HE changed his mind in '03. And whether it was for political reasons, or simply because he had a change of heart, he's hardly the first politician to change his view on something.

[New Earth]

17. if current Republicans aren't making abortion illegal

neither would Kucinich. Just because someone is personally against abortion doesn't mean they think it should be illegal.

[cali]

22. What????

Current and past Repukes have been chipping away SUCCESSFULLY at choice for years now. All kinds of legislation restricting it have been proposed from declaring life begins at conception to prohibiting the transportation of minors across state lines to obtain an abortion.

Some states have long waiting periods. Some states have virtually no clinics that perform abortion.

[lonestarnot]

21. Well where would you have him go? Zealot?

:rofl:

[slipslidingaway]

37. Your fondness for Kucinich from the other day, and now this

misinformation???

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3606493&mesg_id=3606841


"Well, no way in hell I will vote for him for anything after I read the recent post about his
anti choice stands just 3 months before his "conversion" prior to his entering the Dem primary!

Now this information about his vote on S-CHIP! It's too much for me!

I never really liked his hectoring ways and now I have a creepy feeling about him. I see him as a kind of Savonarola with his flour white face and starkly black hair, and can almost envision him in a monk's hood, burning Botticelli's paintings. Not my kind of liberal...

Go ahead and vote for him, Cali; it's your vote. I can never look at this man in the same way. As far as I'm concerned, he should be out of the Dem primary debates. Let him start his own party.

CTyankee"

[me b zola]

9. I wonder if all of HRC volunteers are given this to slap on their car

edited to remove an inflamatory statement. It was not my intent to inflame.

[Roland99]

12. "I dream of saving the US...but I'll settle for selling out"

[New Earth]

16. lol

seriously. Especially in the primaries, people need to vote for who they REALLY want.

[Totally Committed]

20. Right on!

What a great restatement!

TC

[Totally Committed]

18. Just more, "Vote for the (D), and not your ideals..."

condescending bullshit.

TC

[LWolf]

19. One response:

:puke:

What a blatant declaration of weakness and hypocrisy.

[Whisp]

23. I dream of corporate power, I vote for Clinton

-bumper sticker on every hi-end vehicle ridden by top cream executes raking in a few billion a year on the backs and sweat of the little people.

[stuartrida]

24. I dream of neither, vote for neither. They would both make mediocre presidents

If either Dennis or Hillary is the nominee, I will hold my nose and vote for them though.

[Virginia Dare]

29. Better mediocre than disastrous...n/t

[AspenRose]

30. Reminds me of something I saw here in '04

"Dated Dean...Married Kerry"

[redqueen]

31. *sigh*

Quite a difference... but whatever.