Why Flying Now Can Kill....(WashPost)

[Aviation Pro]

John Ornstein is a protege of the worst scumbag who ever ran an airline, Frank "How's That Spiked Drink Working For You, Shithead?" Lorenzo. Lorenzo, by law, is forbidden to work in the airline industry and Ornstein is well on his way to achieving the same.

If you must fly from Phoenix, I recommend flying Frontier. Yes, you'll have to go to the hub in Denver, but they are very good at what they do.

I am haunted by the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum.

I didn't know the mother of three who died shackled to a bench in the Phoenix airport on Sept. 28, en route to an alcohol treatment center in Tucson. I don't know, beyond what I read in the newspapers, what troubles weighed on her. But I do know this: Based on my own recent flight experiences, hers was a death foretold.

There's every reason to believe that Gotbaum would be alive today if she had been allowed to board her flight to Tucson and take her rightful seat. While her tragedy has been a Page One story in many newspapers, few reports have focused on the fact that the airlines involved, US Airways and its subcontractor, Mesa Airlines, are notorious for overbooked flights. According to the New York Times, US Air had revenue last year of $11.56 billion. Of that, $1 billion was the result of diligent overbooking.

Rest here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/12/AR2007101201887_pf.html

[nightrider767]

1. The New American Business Model

All the airlines are the same. Cut pay and benefit packages for employees. Make them work more and increase their duties.

Getting tired of the poor service on United? Fine, go to Delta. That works because Delta's disgruntled passengers are going to AMerican, who in turn are sending it's passengers to United. It's a migration of people with no where to go.

The passengers indeed ought to have a bill of right.

[TheDoorbellRang]

2. This story needs to be seen by anyone that flies

I've never had to use US Air, and looks like I never will in the future, either.

[Thickasabrick]

3. US Airways blows - worst airline out there - but I'm stuck

using them because I live in Charlotte and if I flew anyone else, I couldn't go places direct. It didn't surprise me at all that the airline involved in this was USAir.

[Jazzgirl]

5. US Air sucks eggs.

I hate having to fly that airline. They have the most uncomfortable seats and you can get stuck on the tarmack forever.

[Thickasabrick]

8. As long as they back away from the gate - they can say they

departed on time. Even if you are stuck on the runway for 2 hours, they can say they left on time. I'm all for that passenger bill of rights. The only way it will stop is if they are hurt financially.

[IDemo]

4. I was a non flyer before the no-fly list became popular

I would sooner walk, bicycle, or crawl than deal with airports, airlines, and now, known traveller numbers.

No thanks.

[likesmountains 52]

I have flown US Air/Mesa between here and Phoenix many times..and it's always overbooked..

and usually not by just 1 or 2 seats either...Good article, thanks for posting.

[aikoaiko]

6. I'm fine with airport security intervening w screaming disruptive, possible drunk people

I don't worry about flying because I don't throw my cell phone, scream, rant and rave when I miss my flight whether it was my fault or not for missing the flight.

She didn't deserve to die and the facts of her death still need to be understood, but her detention was a good thing and airport have been detaining people for that behavior for several years before 9/11 (in case anyone thinks its a post 9/11 thing).

[nightrider767]

10. I'm glad you're fine,

But there people out there who have special needs and may exhibit behavior that is out of the norm. People like that deserve better treatment than to be jumped on by a gang of cops, hand-cuffed and left alone in a room. That whole argument that level 10 force must be used to subdue a person, to ensure officers safety must be balanced with common sense.

I agree that there has to be an investigation. But if the case is as it appears, I think the whole group of cops ought to be fired and held civilly liable.

As for maintaining order at the airport, I've got some idea of what's involved with that. I'm an airline pilot.

[TorchTheWitch]

12. Fired for WHAT?

That woman should never have been traveling to rehab alone, and her family bloody well knew it. She was late for her flight because she was too busy needing to get a few drinks in first, threw an out of control fit, screaming and cursing at everyone who tried to help her, and went running like a loon through the concourse. She was rightfully arrested for her behavior, she resisted arrest, assaulted the officers, and it isn't even known yet why she died. One of the arresting officers, Andrew Wuyna, tried to save her life in that holding cell and continued CPR even after she puked in his mouth.

Every single one of the eyewitnesses insist the police did everything exactly correctly, and one even said the police should have been called sooner, and other one gave a personal note to the gate agent commending her for how well she handled the situation.

Even if she hadn't missed her flight, there is NO WAY Carol was in any shape to travel on a passenger flight, especially unchaperoned. As a pilot you of all people should know this woman in no way shape or form should be permitted on a plane. What if she had gotten onboard and had her fit in flight?

It's absurd to imagine the police or anyone else could have diagnosed her "special needs" in that situation... her family knew what her "special needs" were and ignored them making the airport and everyone in it subject to her issues.

Some people may benefit from actually finding something out about this incident before condeming anyone willy-nilly. If anyone deserves condemnation it's that idiot husband of hers that let her make that trip unaccompanied...

POLICE REPORT -
Part One - 94 page pdf file
http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280136.pdf

Part Two - 14 page pdf file
http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1005/14280165.pdf

Includes testimony from officers, TSA agents, passengers, phone call transcripts, evidence collected, etc.

[aikoaiko]

14. I agree that police need to be flexible and attentive, but cuff-and-stuff is not really that bad

Sure, some people have special needs, but being disorderly, screaming and ranting is irrational over a missed flight.

From the video it looks like she doesn't comply with officers to calm down and then they cuff her, walk her away, and stick in a room to calm down.

Being calm is really very easy. If one can't control themselves over inconveniences, then one shouldn't be in public.

[Horse with no Name]

7. I won't fly

I used to worry about crashing, now I worry about them just killing me before I get on the plane...:silly:

[malaise]

9. I am also haunted by the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum

So much so that I've canceled my trip to our family reunion Thanksgiving weekend. I have no mental problems and I'm a social drinker but who needs to be hassled six times for a four day trip. I love my family but not that much.

Gr.

[mvccd1000]

11. I should be booking a ticket this week that will put me over 70,000 miles this year.

Most of my trips start and end in Phoenix, and I always try to fly US Airways, as that's the hometown airline (the old America West). I've never had any trouble (besides being selected for secondary screening almost every time I fly - guess they have to get their quota of white males in). I HAVE witnessed more rude people than I would have imagined could congregate in one place. Why do people always think it's the gate agent's fault if their flight is late or oversold?

Personally, Delta is my least favorite domestic carrier. I'll usually try to go Northwest if I can't go US, although they turned grouchy a couple of years ago when they went on strike, or threatened to.

The first time I was bumped off of an overbooked flight was 1988; almost 20 years ago. Since that time, I've volunteered to give up my seat as often as possible, and three times I've been compensated with a free round trip ticket for doing so.

Overbooking is not an new phenomenon, and airports are very safe places to be if you are capable of acting like an adult.

[EnviroBat]

13. Not a single fucking airline in this country is getting a single DIME from me.

Until these assholes start treating passengers like customers and NOT suspects. Honestly, why the hell are we tolerating this fucking treatment? Guilty until proven innocent. Complain and the fucking gestapo swarms on you. Fuck it. They can no-fly list me for all I care. Train, car, ship, motorcycle, private plane, wormhole to another dimension, what have you. I will find another form of transportation. I've explained to my employer that I refuse to fly any where. They are cool with that. The airline industry as a whole can SUCK IT!