Listening to AAR tonight, they were really trashing Gore, saying he is responsible for NAFTA

[still_one]

I don't know what show it was, but I was listening to it around 6:30 P.M. PST

It was pretty depressing how they were saying "draft Mr. NAFTA"

Since I tuned into the middle of the program, I have no idea if they were critical of the Clinton administration at all, but it was quite disappointing how they were trashing Gore.

These "critics" of Al Gore sure didn't seem to consider that it wasn't Al Gore that made policy then. They also didn't seem to be aware that perhaps after 8 years, his perspective has changed

As I said, I caught the program in the middle, so I do not know if they were critical of any of the other candidates, but it still bothered me the one-sidedness of it all

[flyarm]

1. i heard part of it as well and one person trashing Gore was Greg Palast..

i was pissed..i kept screaming..it was Clinton's policy!! Clinton..as in Hillary's husband..

fly

[Lindsey]

3. As far as AAR it totally depends on the host andtheir views...

Rhandi Rhodes would practically give her life for Gore to run, Mr. K. is a John Edwards guy. I don't think AAR bashes Al as a rule. Maybe the Sat. hosts are closer to greens.

[11cents]

5. So when Gore went on Larry King for his famous debate with Ross Perot

... which was considered quite important in swinging opinion towards NAFTA, he didn't really believe what he was saying? He didn't really buy the arguments that he put across so convincingly?

No - of course he was pro-NAFTA and of course he had an important policy role in the Clinton administration. Gore was, after all, a principle figure in the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party, and a DLC founder. I don't say this to "trash" him, but to counter the kind of binary thinking that's almost as prevalent here sometimes as in sleazeball Greg Palast's head all the time.

[book_worm]

10. people want to rewrite history because of their adoration for Gore

who is a great man, but in his career he has taken some wrong headed stands too.

[Raksha]

16. True, and NAFTA was a very wrong-headed stand.

And as much as we love him (and I just signed the Draft Gore petition tonight) he will have to be confronted on this one. It's important to know how (or if) his opinion of NAFTA has changed since its implementation, whether he now regrets his support and what he intends to do about it if he becomes President.

[still_one]

18. I suspect he will have changed his views on NAFTA, if for nothing else then environmental concerns

[still_one]

17. So did Justice Hugo Black, who before he became a Supreme Court justice

was a segregationist, and member of the KKK

After he became a Supreme Court justice, he became one of the most outspoken justices for free speech and civil rights

[still_one]

11. I didn't hear them credit Gore with the Kyoto accords, and there is no way that is considered part

of the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party.

Gore is also pro-choice, again, not part of the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party, such as Senator Casey from Penn.

The criticism doesn't bother me, the problem is that is all it was

How different is it from Clinton, Obama, and Edwards? were they also included in the criticism, because they sure seemed to point it that way

Funny, someone from the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party has got Michael Moore's support. Also Jimmy Carters. Gore was right about the war, right about the environment, right about the internet, and wrong about NAFTA. That is not too shabby of a record if you ask me

[still_one]

6. Boy that is a surprise. It was frustrating for me also. Palast goes way down in my view now

and not because he critisized Gore, but he didn't take into consideration all the factors

Wonder what Randi Rhodes will say, since she is a huge fan of both Gore and Palast


Thanks for the information

[Blue Belle]

2. Well... I know 2 AAR hosts who want him to run...

and have expressed as much on their shows:

Randi Rhodes
Thomm Hartman

[still_one]

12. It will be interesting to see if Randii gives a reaction to Palast's single issue view about Gore

[Blue Belle]

36. Yes. I'd like to hear that too.

She has Greg Palast on her show a lot.

[Hekate]

4. This is sick.If Dems & progressives can't display more unity than this,we WON'T win the White House

Someone (a political analyst, I don't remember who) pointed out that when the Repubs lose a presidential campaign, the nominee becomes in their minds an elder statesman, someone worthy of running again the next time -- but that when a Democratic candidate loses an election, he becomes dead meat, tainted by the losss, and will not be seriously considered again.

I don't know how true this really is, but time and again I have watched people at DU turn on our progressive/Democratic politicians for some perceived fault like a pack of dogs. It really makes me lose heart.

Hekate

[OzarkDem]

32. Very true

Many in organized labor (that's where this crap comes from) have been irrational and very destructive in using NAFTA to clear the field for GOP victories. They need to get over it or join the GOP.

[cuke]

7. The fact is that Gore was a strong supporter of NAFTA

He was Clinton's "point man" on the issue and Gore debated Perot about NAFTA. And I don't recall Gore ever renouncing his position the way Edwards did with his IWR vote.

And at the time, Gore was nowhere near as liberal as he is now. Back then, he was solid DLC. Like the DLC, Gore sincerely supported NAFTA

It's funny that Gore's support of NAFTA is excused as being "because he had to support Bill Clinton", but when it comes to Hillary (who wants to modify NAFTA) the possibility that she supported it only because she felt (just as Gore did) she had to support her husbands policies.

It's OK to knock Hillary for NAFTA even though she never voted for it, but it's wrong to knock Gore, who made great efforts to get it passed.

[still_one]

14. You just said it, Gore was nowhere near as liberal as he is now. That means he has grown

obviously, not in his critics eyes

It is OK to criticize any candidate on their actions. Yes, Gore was wrong about NAFTA, but right about Koyto, and because of that would most likely today, oppose NAFTA, or have it changed greatly

Incidently, since you brought it up, Hillary has since come out against NAFTA, but she was wrong about Iraq. Gore was right about Iraq, and in the past his views were wrong about NAFTA

Neither Hillary or Gore should be "bashed". Criticizing, fine, but bashing our candidates is not a very prudent thing

[cuke]

21. Hillary has said her IWR vote was a mistake

though not in so many words

And I agree that Gore would now oppose NAFTA. However, that is an assumption of mine as I have never heard him actually say that. However, it makes perfect sense, for the reason you mentioned - Kyoto

[still_one]

22. Agreed. I really don't mind being critical of our candidates, I just think they should be given

a chance to defend their position, or indicate if that position has changed.

one thing I really don't like, and that is when it goes beyond criticism, and I have been guilty of it myself

We have most likely seen enough threads at DU doing that to Hillary, equating her as a republican, and worse. The truth is, she is pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, pro-healthcare, pro- preserving social security, and helping all people save for retirement, and most every progressive issue that we would expect a Democratic candidate to be. Her views on how to get out of Iraq create the most problem for people, but they are not that much different from the other leading candidates views. I disagree with that position on Iraq, and haven't made my mind up who to vote for in the primaries, but I do know the Supreme Court is at stake, and I want us to win in 2008

[Elspeth]

25. "though not in so many words"... Why not?

Another chicken shit?

[cuke]

37. She wants to win, and she knows how to win

She phrased it in a way that makes it difficult to fit on a repukes bumper sticker. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

[rodeodance]

26. yes, Dems can see the problems and change-Repugs tend to be stubborn

[Guaranteed]

8. Insider aspiration. nt

[book_worm]

9. In some respects Gore was the administration point man on NAFTA

He memorably debated Ross Perot about NAFTA on Larry King Live.

[OzarkDem]

33. Clinton and Gore supported a very different version of NAFTA

one in which labor and environmental violations would be strictly enforced. They were also willing to scrap it as a experiment if it began to hurt US jobs and the economy.

I'm surprised I have to explain that to a Democrat and point out how the GOP, not the Dems, created the law and exploited the issue for cheap labor.

[WillyT]

13. Can You Name The Show ???

I'm a Premium Member and would LOVE to know what show said that!

I'll download it immediately.

Thanks in advance!

:shrug:

[still_one]

15. See post #1. Greig Palast was at least one of them

The program was on tonight around 6:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time

[fujiyama]

19. Gore was a proponent of it at the time

There was that famous debate between him and Ross Perot at the time on Larry King, which many say helped build support for it. Gore apparently came across as an effective advocate.

[still_one]

20. That is fine for them to point that out, but what is his views now?

also the other thing that got me about the program was that it was just about bashing Gore without considering his views today, or having him or an advocate there to present his side

mockingly saying "draft Mr. NAFTA", and other snide remarks does not contribute to the discussion, but is fauxesque style of reporting

[OzarkDem]

35. It was a different version of NAFTA

Do some research.

[kellenburger]

23. so Al Gore is Mr. nafta ?

I know he was a supporter of the nafta treaty but was he acytually
involved in the process?

History of NAFTA
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~vochoa/WorldPoliticsFolder/history2.html

[B Calm]

24. NAFTA was a republican introduced bill. Majority of republicans

passed the bill, and it was signed into law by a democratic president.
Now that's a fact!

[B Calm]

27. 156 Democrats, 43 Republicans, and 1 independent voted against NAFTA

132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voted in favor of NAFTA. So an overwhelming majority of Republicans were in support of George HW Bush's free trade agreement in 1993.

[Oilwellian]

28. Actually...

the policy began with Poppy Bush and the republicans in Congress. NAFTA was well on its way when Clinton became president.

[spanone]

29. the swiftboaters are standing by waiting for gore to enter the fray

his nobel prize really brings out the hatred in people....

[OzarkDem]

31. Yep, you got it.

I guess they want the GOP running the country for 8 more years.

[never_get_over_it]

30. Al Gore IS NOT the same man he was in 1992 or even 2000

I don't know what his position on NAFTA is now - BUT I listened to the speech he gave on Martin Luther King 2006 day again yesterday - (I have listened to it several times) That speech alone makes me SUPPORT him. The past seven years have changed a lot of people - I'm more "LIBERAL" now than I have ever been - and I've always been pretty darn liberal -but after almost 7 years of this shit I'm way off the scale now....

People make mistakes and some people are smart enough to adjust if the facts support the change - others won't.... however if Al Gore is STILL supportive of NAFTA I'd be VERY disappointed....

link to a podcast of the speech although it takes a VERY LONG time to load

http://mp3.yeast2.podshow.com/gore.mp3

Transcript here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/16/AR2006011600779.html

If you haven't heard it you must - you'll be VERY proud of President Gore

[OzarkDem]

34. NAFTA changed, not Gore

Gore and Clinton were stuck with it and put in tough restrictions re labor rights and environmental restrictions. They also advocated for strong enforcement of anti-dumping measures. Their hope was to have it help bring economic and political stability to 3rd world countries without hurting US jobs. They coupled it with a plan for more high tech development and retraining of the US workforce to work in that sector.

They were stuck with it and tried to make it workable. The GOP took over and warped it into the mess it is today.