The War on Halloween; or more specifically, trick-or-treat

[hedgehog]

The local Council of Churches is sponsoring a big Light the Night Party for kids. The idea is we all donate candy, and all the kids come to an organized party. This really riles me because for me trick -or-treat is all about affirming neighborliness. It requires people to be way more generous than they are at Christmas. Think about it; at Christmas you carefully calibrate your gift giving to ensure an even exchange. If you hand out candy for trick-or-treat, you are freely giving with no hope of a return gift. This is what light the night parties mean to me:

1. Can't trust the neighbors not to poison the kids.

2. Want to ensure that only the right kids get the treats, not the teenagers or the kids from the other neighborhoods! (We live in a semi-rural area and a lot of families come in to trick-or-treat the better section of the city)

[Book Lover]

1. I remember watching an old movie with my mom years ago

The movie took place in, I think, the 20's and 30's. The kids were celebrating Hallowe'en, and they had a bonfire in the middle of the street. I remember being shocked that such a thing would be allowed. When I said so to my mom, she just sort of shook her head and sighed, saying something along the lines of, "Things were different then."

[Klukie]

2. Light the Night says it all....

They view halloween as something dark and evil. They are trying to offer up their own bullshit alternative.

[hedgehog]

4. I knew I was forgetting something!

So the decline is due to

1. fear of the neighbors

2. reluctance to hand out gifts to strangers

3. fear of the occult.

[Mythsaje]

3. Since we moved into our neighborhood

we've not received ONE trick-or-treater. They all go somewhere else. Where, I have no idea. I've never even seen them on our street.

This will be our third Halloween here. Trick or treating is becoming a thing of the past.

[renie408]

6. It is so sad. It seems like all the things that connect us as a community are going away. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

14. Simple. They go to the affluent neighborhoods.

Get more stuff that way.

[BonnieJW]

17. We don't get them either.

The kids go to the malls with their parents. It's a lot of fun! All the stores give away candy to the kids who come dressed in costumes. Lots of lights, you don't have to worry about perverts getting to your kids. There's no problem with the weather. The mall is the new community.

[prolesunited]

28. You would be better off keeping them away from family members

and friends. Children are far more likely to be sexually abused by them than a stranger.

[juajen]

46. We have a ball on our street on Halloween!

If it isn't raining, the turnout is great. A lot of people bring their children to our neighborhood to trick or treat and our neighborhood is fun and generous. One neightbor actually does a horror house in his carport. It's very elaborate, and decorations and fun abound on the street. We also are limited as to time; as in our Parish and many others around us, trick or treat ends at 8 pm. Gives the adults plenty of time to party, and,they do, all over this city. We love Halloween. It rivals Christmas as a holiday, probably because it involves the whole neighborhood. At Christmas, you mostly see close friends and family, not the whole neighborhood.

Suggestion: To those of you who have low turnout, try getting friends and neighbors to decorate and help turnout. We even had one neighbor who did a hayride in a rented wagon with friends and children going all over the neighborhood. We did not have as big a Halloween when we first moved in the neighborhood; it evolved. You can do it too. It's a lot of fun. BTW, we carve a lot of pumpkins as our fun thing to do.

[renie408]

5. I agree. When my son was three and went Trick or Treating the first time

After about the third house, he came down to us and said in tones of awe, "Mom, everybody is so NICE. They are all giving me CANDY!!"

That innocent appreciation of being given some candy was and is precious to me. I wouldn't trade that for all the Light the Night parties in the world.

[texastoast]

7. No more Halloween carnivals at school

Harvest parties. Blech.

Well, now that Texas has the Religious Expression Act (or whatever the damned thing is) in place at the schools, maybe we can get Halloween parties and Christmas (maybe even Yule) parties rocking at the elementary schools again.

Bet they didn't plan on that one.

[Mythsaje]

8. "Harvest Parties?"

:rofl:

That takes it right back to its pagan roots.

Too funny.

[renie408]

12. Now the just need to throw a Sol Invictus party in December. n/t

[MorningGlow]

30. That's what I thought too!

I was in what I call a "country barf" store (all tin stars and Murkin flags and "pray" signs and "faith" tea towels), and right beside a fairly good selection of Halloween stuff (I got a great "Warning: Low-Flying Witchcraft" sign) there was a lot of "Happy Harvest!" stuff.

...And the funniest thing is the fundies, upon choosing "harvest" to avoid "Halloween", don't even know they're celebrating the true PAGAN nature of the holidays, appreciating the bountiful harvest that will get them through the winter!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Snarf. I think this might deserve its own thread...

[Mythsaje]

31. Halloween, as it is, was THEIR way of avoiding the

original intent of the Holiday. But the pagan roots came shining through, so they decided to change it up, and how? By restoring the original intent of the holiday? Too funny.

[MorningGlow]

33. Day-um, they're never satisfied!

:rofl:

[Mythsaje]

36. The inevitable product of learned ignorance.

Can quote chapter and verse from the bible, but know nothing of lasting value. Ignorant of science, history, literature, and anything beyond the narrow scope of their ideology.

Wastes of space and oxygen, mostly.

[Horse with no Name]

15. They did away with Halloween or Harvest Parties at our school district in East Texas

I guess it is simpler that way...

[texastoast]

22. Therefore, my religious expression is repressed

I'm feeling a lawsuit coming on . . .

:rofl:

[Horse with no Name]

24. They went around the backdoor on this one

They limited the school to 3 parties a year...the parties chosen were Christmas, Valentines Day, and Easter. So nothing was REALLY excluded, they just weren't CHOSEN.

[krispos42]

20. Festivus!

Bring is on!

[Javaman]

41. For the rest of us! nt

[Marrah_G]

9. Many towns have banned the practice

Many churches urge their members not to celebrate it because it is Pagan and therefore evil.

I love trick or treaters and can freely wear my robes without getting a second glance.

In Wicca, We call it Samhain and it is the day we feel the barrier between worlds is at it's thinnest. We honor our fallen brothers and sisters, especially those who have passed in the last year, and set a place at the silent feast for them. It is our most sacred of days.

[hedgehog]

13. As a good Irishwoman, I am well aware of how thin the veil

is on Halloween. I always set out my pumpkins and keep them properly lit!

[TlalocW]

29. As a complete skeptic

I go outside and yell at the spirits to bring it on and call them a bunch of pansies. :)

Just kidding.

TlalocW

[Marrah_G]

35. ROFL n/t

Remind me not to stand next to you!!

[niyad]

10. "light the night" is just marginally better than the "hell houses" some churches put on--

talk about psychotic!!

malls around here, and our neighborhood shops on the avenue, do a trick or treat crawl that has all the kids going to the various shops rather than houses--is this a good thing? considering some of the psychos out there, and the bullies who steal candy from kids, maybe this is better?

all I know is, I am most annoyed with the xian morans who scream about this most sacred of our pagan holy days, trying to make it something evil (which exists only in their demented, fervid little twisted brains)

[TlalocW]

40. Here in Tulsa, it's surprisingly not as one-side as you would think

We have two magic/costume stores (rare for a city our size and even larger sometimes to even have 1) that are staples of the community, and they clean up over Halloween; we have a lot of haunted houses, HalloZOOween at the zoo, trick-or-treating, and we even have BooHaHa, which is the largest single day Halloween event in the state where we close down the Yuppy part of Peoria street (the neighborhood is called Brookside) the Saturday before Halloween. The kids can trick-or-treat from the various businesses; they are costume contests for children, adults, and pets, and then a Halloween parade. (Self-promotion for any Tulsans out there - I'm going to have a large tent in the Food Pyramid parking lot filled with life-sized balloon sculptures of various monsters that people can walk through for free so come out and say hi).

But then we also have G.U.T.S. Church (not making up the name) which runs a Hell House and various other churches who have Fall Festivals/Harvest Festivals/etc. I've always wanted to go to the Hell House and walk into the room where the homosexuals are burning for all eternity and say in my best stereotypical lisp, "Oh, my Gawd! Look at those window treatments! This is Hell for Homoths!"

Here's an excellent webcomic story on Hell Houses - kind of a primer on what they do.

http://somethingpositive.net/sp10032006.shtml

The character focused on during this story is named Fred (the older man), and it helps to know that he has an adopted daughter who's a lesbian.

TlalocW

[Az]

11. It seems to me its more a war on community

It is in the interests of Corporations and even Churches to see diverse community crumble. For the Corporations it makes us more reliant on them to satisfy our needs. For Churches it makes us more afraid of differences and seek out those who exclusively think like we do. Experience with people that look, act, and think differently from us eases tensions and anxieties from those differences. Those who want to control us benefit from driving us apart and making us reliant on them.

[murielm99]

16. Our council of churches

had a few of those parties for the kids, too.

They were jointly sponsored by another community group, as I remember.

The older kids had a party upstairs. The younger kids were downstairs. My kids were small then. They wore their costumes, had a cupcake walk, treats and games. It was held after school.

It was fun for some of the smaller kids who only go a couple of blocks for trick or treat. The older kids, the tweens, got to have their own dance, with lip sync and things like that. There was no charge for the party.

There was nothing religious or offensive to anyone in any way, unless they were such fundies that they thought Halloween celebrations were an invitation to devil worship. My kids had fun, and they still went trick or treating.

Another thing we do here is have a special trick or treat time at the local nursing home. The residents, those who are well enough, give out small plastic toys and candies to the kids who come in. The residents look forward to seeing the children in their costumes. Those who choose not to participate stay in their rooms with their doors closed.

One of the things that annoyed me about Halloween was that the change to daylight savings time happened right before the holiday. If they had held off just a week, the kids could have gone trick or treating in the light. It would have been safer and more fun for them. That was one of the stated reasons for the community party: safety.

I don't see a problem with a little community togetherness. I am glad I live in a town that is small enough to care about it.

[Book Lover]

18. I have to disagree with one small point

Trick-or-treating is more fun when it's dark, not when the sun is still out!

I love the idea of bringing the kids into the nursing home. When relevant to my life, I'll be sure to incorporate that into my child's Hallowe'en funtim!

[Devlzown]

19. Halloween is one of my two favorite holidays --

the other is Mardi Gras. I celebrate both in a big way, and if anyone says anything negative about either holiday in my presence, I go after them with a vengeance.

[krispos42]

21. Oh, they are just trying to crush paganism...

At least, the paganism that hasn't been co-opted and immersed in a Judeo-Christaim matrix. Like, say, the Christmas tree...

[SteelPenguin]

23. Some of you guys lived in F'd up places

Halloween in my city neighborhood is huge. It varys based on the weather, or if there's a football game or something, but in general it's pretty big. It's a very blue collar neighborhood, but we still get a bunch of kids from other neighborhoods. Generally because the streets are fairly flat, and there's a cluster of 4 straight streets which makes it easy to go back and forth among a ton of houses relatively quickly.

I'd say a good quarter of the houses are decorated for Halloween fairly extensively, and almost every house will have the lights on and giving out candy. It's great fun.

I can't imagine living in a neighborhood with no Halloween decorations or trick or treaters like some posters here. How lame.

[Withywindle]

25. In my neighborhood in Chicago, it's pretty great.

Same as you said, lots of decorated houses, lots of kids going around. Those of us who live on the upstairs floors of apartment buildings come down with our bowls of candy and hang out with the first-floor neighbors on the stoop giving treats out. Not everybody gives out candy of course - there are ways to signal if you're giving or not. Lights, mostly.

It's depressing to think there so many kids -- and adults!-- who never get to experience that.

[SteelPenguin]

32. It seems like most of the anti-halloween stuff is outside cities

Rural villages, small towns, suburbs. Areas traditionally more 'red'.

Whereas the 'blue' areas seem to love having a good ole party with the neighbors where everyone gets to dress up, eat candy and drink booze.

[hedgehog]

34. I do believe we have a winner!

My Dad always used to throw a sheet over his head and go trick or treating next door. He sometimes demanded and got a shot of whiskey! ( I think that wa one of two shots a year he's drink!)

[Withywindle]

43. I'm sure that's true and it's doubly depressing.

I grew up in a very small town (more of a post-office designation than a town) in SW VA - very red, very Bible Belt--and yet Halloween was a HUGE deal when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s. My elementary school cut all classes that afternoon and turned every classroom into a different 'theme' room - there were games, jack'o'lantern carving, a crawl-through 'haunted house', a costume contest, a veritable orgy of candy corn and pumpkin pie and cupcakes with black cats and ghosties and stuff. All the teachers dressed up. And just about everybody went trick or treating - houses were far apart of course, so parents signed up to drive gaggles of kids around. Anybody who didn't give out candy got the stinkeye, and sometimes the TP.

It was a high point of our year. There were a very few kids who didn' tparticipate for religious reasons--mostly the hardline Pentecostal kids, who stood out anyway because the girls weren't allowed to cut their hair or wear pants--and we all felt just awful for them. We used to give them some of our candy on the sly.

[Aristus]

26. I guess there's no point in reminding these folks that Halloween is CHRISTIAN holiday...

:eyes:

And I can't think of anything that sounds more pagan than "Harvest Festival". Unbelievable...

[Romulox]

37. Halloween is not a Christian holiday...pre-Christian...nt

[KamaAina]

38. Christians adapted it to "All Saints' Eve"

All Saints' Day (Nov. 1) is a fairly big deal in parts of Christendom, notably Mexico where it is known as Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead), and New Orleans, where visits to loved ones in the famed cemeteries are the order of the day.

[Marrah_G]

44. In reference to "Day of the Dead"

It is also the Eve that Wiccans and many other Pagans honor those who have passed on, especially within the last year and we believe this is the time where the veil between the worlds is thinnest.

[Marrah_G]

42. Wrong, very Wrong

Halloween or Samhain is a Pagan Major Holy Day or a "Major Sabbat" in fact it is our most important Sabbat in many traditions.

Halloween like our other Holy days were taken over and changed by christianity when it took over Europe. It was easier to convert them if they could still have their Festival and some of the traditions. This was also the time when they decided the Devil had hoofs and horns...surprisingly like the European Pagan Faiths.

[Aristus]

47. That's what I meant. The early Christians created a holiday to replace

Samhain, etc. and in that respect, halloween is Christian. But the evangelicals always forget that in their zeal to generate lucrative publicity through bombastic outrage.

[Marrah_G]

50. Ahhh okay!

I mistook what you meant. My apologies.

[TlalocW]

27. I hate this shit - instead of Halloween it's a Fall Carnival or something like that.

Because Halloween started out as a Pagan holiday. Well, guess what? So did a lot of the others including Christmas and Easter. The church just co-opted them, kept some of the less offensive (to them) customs like yule logs and mistletoe, and changed the meaning of the celebration.

Halloween is just about the only "big-name" holiday that has resisted overt Christianization from religious groups. There's no deeper meaning to it other than to dress up silly, see other people's costumes, and get candy, and because evangelists haven't been able to work God into it, it must be stopped. Since they can't co-opt it, they offer alternatives.

I twist balloons as a side business, and I've worked a few of these events. Halloween parties are a lot more fun. I also have a video put out by an evangelist balloon twister where he has several other "big-name" (to us) twisters showi how to make various Halloween sculptures, but when it's his turn, he gives some long spiel about how he won't work Halloween parties, etc., but he will do Fall Carnivals, etc. then goes on to make a Frankenstein sculpture. I guess making money off of a DVD called, "Halloween Sculptures," is okay, but recognizing the holiday itself is bad.

TlalocW

[ellie]

39. I love Halloween!

Last year my husband and I moved to the city, after living in the country where we had no trick or treaters, and it was great! I love decorating and giving out candy. People drop their kids off in the neighborhood so it is packed with people. Fall is my favorite time of year.

[Seedersandleechers]

45. I haven't seen a trick-or-treater in years

I have fond memories back in the 50's where gangs of friends would scout the neighborhoods for good tricking. At the end we would trade our stash for favorites.

[Megahurtz]

48. Fundies Are Literally Paranoid Over Halloween.

They think it's "evil." :eyes:

I just would not participate and continue to give out candy from my Home.

Why should you let them make you feel guilty?:shrug:

[TlalocW]

49. Ha!

It figures. I was just in my garage after getting home from work, trying to open a package that came in the mail, and some teenager from a church approached me and gave me a flier for their upcoming activities. I looked at it and saw, "Fall Festivall," instead of, "Halloween." I told him, "If you can't call it Halloween, I'm not interested." He replied with a big smile, "No, sir. We try not to call it Halloween." I told him, "No, you don't understand. If you CAN'T call it Halloween, I'm not interested in it or your church. Thanks." His smile faded as understanding slowly dawned.

TlalocW

[Toots]

51. When you were a child were you ever mugged by older kids for your candy?

A lot of kids are or have been. This is one way of eliminating that frightful occurance. Sometimes kids even get beat up for their candy if they don't give it up right away. Kids get bombed with eggs from teenagers driving by. It is one thing if the parent goes with their child but the great majority do not. Kids are perfect targets with bags full of treats just ripe for the taking..Trick or treating is a high risk activity these days and parents just want their children to be safe..

[NMMNG]

52. Yep

It's ok when they try to destroy traditional things for the children and others. But if you dare say "happy holidays" they'll screech "IT'S MERRY CHRISTMAS!!" at the top of their lungs and then accuse you of Christian persecution.