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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:26 AM
Original message
I need help to answer this repuke's e-mail re: Social Security
Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 11:12 AM by snappyturtle
ON EDIT NUMBER TWO: THANKS TO ALL....I HAVE ALL THE AMMO I NEED!



Here is the e-mail I received from my very repuke twin sister....her husband is the newest Rep.Senator in the Indiana State legislature! So you know what I'm up against. I'm going to IN three weeks from today for my mother's 91st b'day and she is already setting me up. We haven't talked much in almost a year and now this is her form of communication! Hopefully, there's a DU social security guru who can give me a little ammo. I am helping a friend pack for a move today so I'll be in and out....but I'll be back. Countin' on ya DU!!! :applause:

Here's the content of the e-mail:


Your Social Security
Just in case some of you young people (& some older ones)
didn't know this. It's easy to check out, if you don't
believe it. Be sure and show it to your kids. They need a
little history lesson on what's what.
Our Social Security

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be
completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put
into the Program would be deductible from
their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the
independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the
general operating fund, and therefore, would
only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other
government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees
would never be taxed as income.



Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the Federal government to "put
away" -- you may be interested in the following:

-------------------------------------------------------------


Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
Independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the
General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically
controlled House and Senate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------



Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax
deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social
Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
"tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the US

-------------------------------------------------------------------



Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving
annuity payments to immigrants?

AND MY FAVORITE:

A: That's right! Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
began to receive Social Security payments! The
Democratic Party gave these payments to them,
even though they never paid a dime into it!


edit: the rest of the email:

Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the
Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want
to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is uninformed citizens believe
it!

If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of
Awareness will be planted and maybe changes will
evolve. Maybe not, some Democrats are awfully
sure of what isn't so.

But it's worth a try. How many people can
YOU send this to?

Actions speak louder than bumper stickers.


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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. snopes is your friend
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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. The problem with Snopes is that no right winger will read that much
There needs to be a special 'Snopes'-like site that you can send e-mail forwarding wingnuts to where no answer is longer than a paragraph. :)
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Oh I had to laugh when I read your reply...I almost couched my
answer to my evil twin with a remark like "...if you bother to read this" I did say this was an old e-mail and I had seen it (not true but.......) since it came out in 2005 I COULD have. You hit the nail on the head. Thanks.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:37 PM
Original message
If they can read those long winded BS e-mails
They can read the Snopes debunkings of them. If they want the actual truth, that is--not that they do.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. If they can read those long winded BS e-mails
They can read the Snopes debunkings of them. If they want the actual truth, that is--not that they do.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Thank you! It is wonderful....I found it too I hate to admit I just had to
look a minute...never thought it would be so easy....again thanks...I've already answered the little witch!
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here you go. From SSA.gov
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Oh goodie...more fodder! I look at this....I love to hit back hard and
fast and you've really helped! Thanks!
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. A hallmark of a conservative is that the fact-based argument is lost on them.
For most rational people, when it is demonstrated that everything that they say in support of their viewpoint is bullshit, they become self consicous, more careful in what they say, and perhaps even reevaluate their views.

This is Steven Colbert's genius. "Truthiness" means that the feelings are the important thing and it's okay to make up shit to support those feelings.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. You're so right! I love "truthiness"..... it's like the repukes (evil twin)
want a good fight and then just spout off without looking into the facts....well, you know in my sister's case she's so-o-o busy with the country club and the second home and trips and all she just doesn't have the time her pion sister does! I hope that this rapid fire response will keep me off her forward list! I don't want anymore of this crap....I knew it was but I wanted a fool proof response....nothing she can pick apart. That's where DU came in and I love this place for that.

My sister is not rational....my mother is always reminding me, in regards to the upcoming visit, that I shouldn't upset my sister because she is a recovering alcoholic! Give me a break! She became an alcoholic because she felt sorry for herself...empty nest syndrome and a husband who is never home because he's working the system that gives them their luxurious life-style.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Wow! Thanks from me,
too, Jeff! Social Security is the reason I got into politics in 2000 and it's still a pet("pet" as in I can't wait to get it and retire to Kauai) issue..who knew it would go way beyond SS into fighting for the life of our very Constitution!

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. Did you check out Snopes on the subject?
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. YES! I did...I was just coming back to post it....I had to peek
to see if I could find an answer myself and that Scopes site popped up right on top....there is a Santa Claus. I just didn't think I could possibly search each and every question out so that's why I came to DU! THANK YOU for your time.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?
Carter, thankfully.

My grandpartents moved here from Germany in the 1920s, and paid into SS from its inception. But because they didn't become citizens until the '60s, they were never able to claim the full benefit. Carter changed that.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I will use this....short and to the point something a repuke might
be able to wade through. Yes, Carter did the right thing.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. First of all, what FDR promised is hardly relevant to today. And second, all the changes to social
security have been bipartisan - and most of the major changes were made with the cooperation of a REPUBLICAN president (Reagan).
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. True. Another reason I hate Reagan.....if things get nasty, I
will include this. Thanks for taking the time to replay....it all helps!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Any chance they won't get
"nasty"? You have a full activist plate..on top of everything else you have a repuke twin! Good job, snappy!
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. I would also print out the debunking that someone posted. This is a good example of
"facts" that aren't really facts that are used in these email mass pukes that wingnuts are so fond of. In other words, wingnut emailers lie a lot. You can tell her that also.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. When I sent her the links to both of these sites I suggested
she e-mail her sister-in-law that forwarded it. I told the evil twin she'd be helping to stop further embarrassment! I've got a entire repuke family.........I take so much grief but I usually can shut them up but they NEVER stop.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. The "crisis" with social security is this...
... the military industrial complex doesn't want to have its income stream jeopardized by having to repay the money that workers have loaned them over the decades.

It's analagous to declaring bankruptcy because the credit card company stops sending you cash advances.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. That's going around again. DH's co-worker recently brought it in to work
DH did the snopes and SSA print out and took it into work. Repuke co-worker actually took a copy of each home.

Funny..DH says the guy hasn't talked politics with him since then.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here's how I fight false propaganda.
I tell them it is false propaganda, give them the link, then ask them why someone would lie to them about this? I say this obviously came from conservatives, aimed at fellow conservatives. Why do they feel they must twist the truth and lie to you? Do they think you are too stupid to know truth from lies?

give him a link to the snopes site and instruct him to check the truth of the e-mail before forwarding. Tell him he may have to try several different key words to find reference to the e-mail sometimes all it takes is putting in the name eg: Hillary. Have him try "Hillary black panthers", "ollie north osama."
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
21. This: "Which president refuses to take responsibility for the greatest foreign policy blunder?"
Answer: President Shit for Brains.

Trot out the 200 billion dollars figure if they want to compare amounts of wasted money.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yeah this crossed my mind too. I personally like the $500,000
a minute number. That is something my sister could wrap her repuke warped brain matter around! She'll probably want to become a gov't. contractor!
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