Anyone catch Mike Gravel on the NewsHour (PBS) just now?

[scarletwoman]

I thought he was very good -- articulate and intelligent. Just came right out and said that the recently passed Kyle/Lieberman was bogus and dangerous and was pushed by AIPAC. (it was actually drafted by AIPAC, btw, but I don't have the link to where I discovered that handy just now)

Anyway, I can't help but like the man. He really does see our current situation quite clearly, and is able to articulate it very well. I know most DUers consider him just a joke, but I see him as an elder worthy of respect -- someone who has paid alot of attention to how the world works. Someone who has seen alot, knows alot, understands alot, and has the courage to dissent from the prevailing mindset -- both now and back in the day when he read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record.

I recognize that his national sales tax proposal is generally derided, and I can't really offer any counter-argument because I haven't studied it. I sort of feel that it's mostly irrelevant, since we all know that he'll never be elected anyway -- much less nominated. However, neither will I completely discount the possibility that the idea may have some merit that one might discover if one were to make the effort to study it.

For those who have the capability of watching this interview online -- which I don't have due to my primitive dialup modem -- it would be nice if you would go view it and then post your own thoughts on this thread.

And, if not, no big deal. I just wanted to post a little shout out for Mike Gravel, because I thought he presented himself quite well. And as he said near the end of the interview: this was the first time that ANY television news organization had given him more than 5 minutes to say what he has to say. I was really glad I got to see it.

sw

[democratsin08]

1. he and ron paul

are the only 2 candidates not bought and paid for

[scarletwoman]

7. True, but I don't consider Ron Paul in the same class as Gravel at ALL.

Yes, Ron Paul makes great anti-war & anti-imperialist arguments, but aside from that he's a right wing nut job who totally supports the idea that the U.S. should be declared to be a "Christian" nation, and wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

Unless Ron Paul is good for siphoning off Republican votes from whoever ends up being the GOP nominee, I don't think he's much good for anything.

sw

[superkia]

27. When did Dennis Kucinich sell out and to what interest?

I haven't seen anything showing that he was that way too? So far he is my hope for the people having a voice, dont tell me he is heading in the same direction as the front runners.

[Stevepol]

40. Why do people always forget Kucinich? Who owns DK? Nobody.

[scarletwoman]

48. I still totally love Kucinich. I just think Gravel deserves some props too. (nt)

[TomInTib]

2. He's the only candidate I can stand for more than a few minutes.

Thanks for the heads-up, I will watch it later.

[scarletwoman]

20. You're welcome. (nt)

[EFerrari]

3. No, but thanks, I'll catch when it reairs tonight.

Gravel is great.

[stevedeshazer]

4. I have mixed feelings about the guy

I didn't see the PBS thing, but I agree with a point I think you are making: Older people don't get respect.

Gravel, in today's context, comes off as nutty to younger pre-Viet Nam War /Nixonian Americans.

To me, he makes a lot of sense.

[scarletwoman]

19. Thank you. I wish more younger people understood his courage wrt the Pentagon Papers. (nt)

[Annces]

5. Yes, I really liked him

I wish he could become our president.

[scarletwoman]

18. I like him, too. I know he'll never be president, of course, he's an honorable man. (nt)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Us West Coast folks

will catch him in a bit...

I've heard him and he is very impressive.

Truth to power and all that.

Thanks for the heads-up!

[scarletwoman]

9. You're very welcome! (nt)

[Hieronymus]

8. Gravel is right about the Kyle/Lieberman bill. Unfortunately in lengthy

interviews he comes across as a fool. Ron Paul is right on the war, but he is against govenment financing of infrastructure, health care, schools, and he's against abortion in all cases.

[scarletwoman]

13. Well, that's the thing -- this was the first "lengthy interview" I've ever seen with Gravel.

I don't have cable TV, so I've missed all the "debates" -- and I missed the ONE "debate" that was on PBS a couple weeks ago because I didn't know about until too late.

I've read lots of threads about Gravel from TV appearances that I never had a chance to see, and this was the first time I got to watch and listen to him for myself. I didn't think he came across "as a fool" at ALL.

To me he came off as someone knowledgeable and intelligent, and doing his best to wake some people up to the truth of the sorry condition of our country. I think he deserves more respect than I've seen given him around here.

sw

[noamnety]

35. There's a great youtube of him on Democracy Now

talking about the pentagon papers. If you haven't watched it, you should. A great piece of history, told with memorable humor.

http://www.youtube.com/v/c5ks8hz5Ulg

[scarletwoman]

37. Thank you for posting that link! Definitely a great piece of history! (nt)

[DemReadingDU]

44. Transcript link for PBS NewsHour w/ Mike Gravel

10/1/07 Former Alaska Senator and Democratic presidential hopeful Mike Gravel talks about his campaign fundraising, U.S. relations with Iran and details his personal and political background in the newest in a series of in-depth interviews with the 2008 presidential candidates.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec07/gravel_10-01.html



edit to add: you can also click a link to hear the audio there

[scarletwoman]

47. Many thanks for posting that link! Much appreciated!

I was planning on looking for the transcript this evening. Thanks to you I can get to it directly!

:bounce:
sw

[southerncrone]

10. Gravel really is a national treasure.

[scarletwoman]

15. I agree. He is a public servant out of the old school. He reminds me of the kind of principled

leader I grew up assuming that our government was made up of -- back before the JFK assassination.

I get the feeling that he believes in the same kind of America that I grew up believing in. I love him just for reminding me of those old ideals.

sw

[southerncrone]

21. Same here.

[hfojvt]

11. He sounded worse than Brownback to me

"Government is fundamentally messed up". Isn't that straight from Reagan? He wants to give the power to the people. That sounds good, except he will be giving power to an awful lot of stupid people - people ignorant or deluded enough to vote for Bush - twice!!!

It's nice that he is against a war with Iran. What did he say though, something like he could get us off of oil in two years? Or five years?

Maybe he's a jet fuel genius, but he's way off on tax policy. It's too bad he used his five minutes of fame to hawk the UnFairTax :puke:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/55

[scarletwoman]

17. His tax proposal came near the very end of his interivew -- he wasn't really "hawking it",

it was the interviewer who brought it up. Moreover, he didn't have the time -- nor did he try to use the time -- to explain his tax ideas. It seemed to me that he was doing the best he could to address the war issues.

In any case, I find value in his direct challenges to conventional wisdom. Whether his proposed solutions to taxes and energy issues are flawless or not are less important to me than the fact that he's willing to call out the folly that is unfolding all around us, and call it out articulately and intelligently.

sw

[H2O Man]

12. Nominated.

It's good to discuss all of these issues in the primary season.

[scarletwoman]

14. Thank you! That really means alot coming from you.

The truth is, it has really bothered me to read so many threads on DU over the past several months just outright dismissing Gravel as a kook. However, without cable, I haven't really had much chance to listen to him for myself.

I think he has been wrongfully derided by too many on DU. He evinces greater degrees of clear perception and intelligent analyses than I've ever seen him given credit for here.

Plus, I just plain like him as a human being.

sw

[H2O Man]

22. It's worth noting

that the Franklin /AIPAC espionage case involves people connected to the OVP and AIPAC who were sharing classified military secrets about Iran with a foreign intelligence agency. And in an 8-14-06 Memorandum Opinion (Case 1:05-cr-00225-TSE Document 343-1), Federal District Court Judge TS Ellis ruled that, "A thorough review of the FISA dockets in issue confirms that the FISC had ample probable cause to believe the targets were agents of a foreign power ..." The public needs to know who is advocating a war with Iran, and why.

[scarletwoman]

23. "The public needs to know who is advocating a war with Iran, and why." How will they ever find out?

Certainly, the corporate media isn't going to tell them. Hillary Clinton isn't going to tell them.

Even on DU, the calculated demonization of Ahmadinejad/Iran finds ample fertile ground. There's SO little comprehension of what Peter Dale Scott calls "deep politics" and "parapolitics" here. When so many DUers are incapable of getting it, what hope is there for the rest of the country to get it?

sw

[antigop]

29. Any update on the Franklin/AIPAC espionage case? I thought it was supposed to go to trial last May.

Any info would be appreciated.

[malaise]

16. I love Mike Gravel

I'll watch the Podcast later. I only watched Tweety because I missed him earlier. I had switched to PBS. Damn.

[Emit]

24. Gravel reminds me of myself when I only have a few minutes to make my political points

I come off as a nut job.

When given more time, I'm much more effective.

I didn't see him and missed the airing, but I'll check it on line. Thanks for posting.

[Peregrine Took]

25. I can't help but like him either -even when he comes across as a curmudgeon

Some of the finest people I know are "what you see is what you get" curmudgeons.

[scarletwoman]

26. Hell, I'm pretty far into curmudgeonland myself -- or can only men be "curmudgeons"?

If I can't be a curmudgeon, I'll settle for cranky old crone.

[Lifelong Protester]

28. I thought he said something astute about education

which was that why is it that only 65% of our students graduate from high school? Why do other industrialized countries take care of education k-16? or K-20??? And this one, which was, we don't really put a high priority on education (when it comes to money) in this country, we put a higher priority on funding for the military-industrial complex.

BTW, I am a long term teacher and school administrator. I was happy to hear him say that NCLB needs to be scrapped.

Oh, and I don't have any blood under my fingernails (as was asserted by someone I had to put on ignore in the 'girl beaten over dropped cake" thread. Don't you think we'd have evolved past the over-generalizing and stereotyping of people on this board??

Thanks for mentionining Mike Gravel, though. I thought I just might be the only person who saw his five minutes in the spotlight!!

[scarletwoman]

30. You're welcome! I'm glad you saw him too.

And he's definitely right on about education in this country.

sw

[Cha]

31. How can one consider Mike

Gravel "a joke" when he speaks truth to the power?

[scarletwoman]

32. Because most people find it alot more comfortable to just go along with power. (nt)

[Cha]

33. Glad that's not me..I see the power

in people like Mike, Al, and Dean.

[scarletwoman]

34. It's the difference between power OVER and power from WITHIN.

Mike, Al and Dean are all about power from WITHIN.

But most people in this country buy into the power OVER dynamic. They are authoritarians at heart.

sw

[Cha]

36. I getcha,

scarlet!

[Naturyl]

38. I agree. Major respect for Mike Gravel.

He isn't going to win and he's not concerned with being a "people-pleaser," but how can anyone dismiss his record or the truth of the things he is saying now?

[scarletwoman]

39. Thank you! (nt)

[leftchick]

41. If you have a chance check this out

Diane Rehm had him on a few weeks ago and he was great! He always brings a tear to my eye because of his honesty. That is why people blow him off, they can not handle the truth!

http://wamu.org/programs/dr/07/08/08.php

[leftchick]

42. Here is a link to the AIPAC connection......

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/II29Ak01.html


In fact, the first call for cross-border attacks on Iranian targets was made by the Senate's "independent" Democrat, Joseph Lieberman, who is regarded as particularly close to the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

Indeed, it was Lieberman and Republican Senator John Kyl - an honorary co-chair of the pro-Likud Committee on the Present Danger - who co-sponsored the Senate amendment naming the IRGC as a terrorist group in an effort clearly designed to help tilt the internal balance within the administration.

As introduced, the amendment, which according to several Capitol Hill sources was drafted by AIPAC, actually went considerably further, deploying language that some senators argued could be interpreted as authorizing war against Iran.


<snip>

Still, the fact that the amendment was approved by a significant margin - and with the support of key Democrats, including Clinton and Majority Leader Harry Reid - is certain to be used by hawks within the administration as an indication of bipartisan support for a more aggressive policy toward Iran.

[Gin]

43. I watched him on the show and I was impressed...I knew nothing

of him....but want to know more..

[leftchick]

45. here are some links

http://www.gravel2008.us/

http://www.gravel2008.us/learnmore.php

I love him! :)

[scarletwoman]

46. Thank you for finding that! I read SO many different blogs & news articles, it can be very difficult

to remember where I read what.

Really appreciate that you found it -- and yes, that is exactly the article I was remembering!

:yourock:
sw

[Wiley50]

49. A Great Man. It's Kinda Sad Really

He knows what is what, but his age hampers him

He knows what he wants to say, but he can't get it out
without regressing every two lines.
But he gets back to it.

And, if one has the patience that is due a man of his age
one can learn a lot.

Unfortunately, that's not how things work these days
No one really has the patience

He just sounds like an old man rambling to most

[scarletwoman]

50. It didn't seem to me that he was rambling at all.

As I said, not having cable, this was really the first time I had an opportunity to listen to him speak.

I'd been reading all the criticisms of him for months, but when I finally got to see him for myself, he DIDN'T sound like a "rambling old man" to me.

But maybe it's 'cuz I'm kinda old myself...

sw

[Time for change]

51. I didn't see the interview

But I do admire him for his outspoken remarks about the Iraq War. He was similarly outspoken about the Vietnam War before it was popular to criticize it. We badly need a president who is appropriately very reluctant to bring us into war.

I think, however, that the national sales tax is a bad idea. It is regressive, in that it taxes a substantially larger portion of the wealth of the poor and working class than it does it does the wealthy.

[scarletwoman]

52. The truth is, I don't worry about his tax thing, since there's no way he'll be elected.

What I think is important is that here is a person breaking out of the strictures of conventional wisdom and offering an entirely different perspective.

sw