Just to be a complete YAHOO, a simple proposal for smokers:

[Tyler Durden]

I don't smoke anymore, and whether you do or not (as long as I don't have to breath it too) is none of my business.

Now for the YAHOO part:

Should there be taxes on cigarettes? Of course. As high as the traffic will bear. Period. Booze too (I do still drink, moderately).

But this works even better for me: You smoke, drink HEAVILY, sky dive, bungy jump, motorcyle or any other SERIOUSLY hazardous activity, then you are no longer in my actuarial group. This of course goes away as far as health care goes if single payer shows up, but as for life, car, liability...You are in your OWN GROUP.

YES I am a cowardly little wuss. Goes with my death phobia and fear of the dark, but then, I'M the one who through my excessive caution takes the odds DOWN as opposed to YOU who kick them UP.

Yep. I feel as a wuss, I'm entitled to a better insurance rate.

[beberocks]

1. I propose all smokers wear a space helmet when they smoke

That way they can enjoy all their smoke, including the second-hand smoke that other people usually have to breathe. I'm sick and tired of exiting a building only to be smothered by second-hand smoke from the smokers gathered at the doors. If you love smoking so much, keep it all to yourself!

[SacredCow]

5. Neat invention that would be....

I am truly bothered by the government telling privately owned businesses that they have to ban smoking within their confines; however, I do admit to GREATLY enjoying the benefits of said bans. While the smokers certainly should have the right to do as they please, I hold dear MY right to not smell like an ashtray.

[kestrel91316]

28. Those privately-owned businesses have these things called EMPLOYEES

who are entitled to a SAFE workplace. In CA our workplace smoking ban (which now includes bars) came about as a matter of WORKPLACE SAFETY. I support it 100%.

Private businesses are not free to harm others for profit as they see fit.

[SacredCow]

31. Kind of a moot point here, truth be told....

I honestly can't think of a single bartender at any of the establishments I frequent who ISN'T a smoker. Of course, things are different in other areas of the country, and I'd love to see Baton Rouge move in that direction. My point is that I really hate to see the government snatching away rights that we once had (a-la safe abortions).

It's not that I would mind a complete and total ban on smoking, but I am very leery of the doors that it will open.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. I propose that all drivers re-route their exhaust back into their car.

That way, they can enjoy all their exhaust, including the second-hand exhaust that other people usually have to breathe.

see how silly that sounds?

[kestrel91316]

27. I also think that if you are smoking in a car, you should be required

to KEEP THE WINDOWS CLOSED.

I feel like puking when I have to inhale somebody's cigarette fumes while driving down the street on a lovely day with my windows down. Of course they always have their arm hanging out their window so THEY don't have to breathe their OWN crap except for when they take a puff.

[prayin4rain]

2. I don't think Bungy jumping is statistically unsafe.

Sky diving either.

[txaslftist]

4. It's a lot less safe than staying on the bridge or in the plane.

Just sayin'.

[prayin4rain]

6. But a lot more safe than driving or riding in a car.

Or eating trans fats.

[txaslftist]

3. Yawn. Nobody's an anti-smoking zealot nazi like an ex-smoker.

You want smokers to pay higher premiums? Try and catch them.

[Tyler Durden]

7. As long as they will screen ME for THC, they can screen everyone else for NICOTINE.

Fair trade?

[txaslftist]

17. No.

Burning marihuana and burning tobacco both smell exactly like freedom.

They shouldn't be screening you or anyone else; nor should the government be banning either substance. If a restaurant wants to ban smoking on their premises, that's their call, not some sanctimonious closet pedophile at City Hall.

[Tyler Durden]

19. Ok. THAT I will compromise on. nt

[kestrel91316]

29. I disagree. Restaurant employees have the right to breathe safe air

in the workplace. Banning smoking in the workplace is an employee safety issue.

[txaslftist]

34. Hell they do.

If they don't want to breath smokey air, they can work at a non-smoking restaurant.

[codjh9]

35. Yeah, smoking is a great thing to defend - it only killed my dad, my brother, my aunt (only second-

hand smoke got her!), and it's half killed me, even though I quit almost 18 years ago.

[txaslftist]

37. I'm not defending smoking, I'm defending peoples' freedom.

Even the freedom to make unhealthy choices.

We've got more prisons and more prisoners in this country than any other country in the world, on both a per capita and a percentage of the population basis. The reason is that Americans love to tell each other what to do and how to live, and they love to lock each other up.

I for one am sick of it. Alcohol kills just as many people and often more violently than cigarettes, buy when we've tried to ban it, we get a mess. Same for marihuana, coke, smack, whatever.

The War on Drugs is a war on our freedom. So will a war on smoking be.

I'm sorry for the loss of your relatives, but they didn't have to smoke or marry smokers or work in establishments where people smoke, and neither do you. Cocaine used to be legal and available at the corner drug store. When that was the case, hardly anyone went to jail over it, hardly anyone overdosed, and nobody got machine-gunned in drive-bys.

The idea that a bunch of taxes need to be imposed or bans put in place regarding peoples' personal choices assumes that people are unqualified to make their own choices. It posits a fundamental lack of faith in common sense and judgment.

If that's your view of human nature that's fine. But maybe you ought to find a society where democracy isn't practiced, like Saudi Arabia.

[codjh9]

41. Give me an f-ing break

I did NOT say smoking should be banned, and if I wanted to be in 'a society where democracy isn't practiced', do you think I'd be on THIS board? I'm a die-hard liberal, democrat, and believe in freedoms. I am just so angry at smoking and what it did to me and my family, that I can't help but have a knee-jerk reaction to anything about it... so hey, I didn't say I was perfect. And as to not having to work anywhere, go anywhere, marry anyone, etc. where there is smoking, sometimes it's not that easy. Do you think my aunt knew when she married my uncle that his smoking would be one of the major contributors to her death later? Or did my parents know that their second-hand smoke would affect me? No, they didn't at the time, but I did not have an alternative - what was I supposed to do - leave their house when I was 7? And what about restaurants or bars - there are still a number of them that I'd like to go in, but flat can't because there's smoke in there (I can't be around the smallest amount, period). I was recently in Vancouver, and was constantly trying to avoid smoke...

I am all for freedoms, and that includes not wearing a motorcycle helmet and many others - but as many other defenders of freedoms will say, when your rights cross into mine, then there's a problem. And no one should have to breathe a smoker's smoke, unless, as you say, it's an establishment where it's clearly 'enter at your own risk'.

[txaslftist]

43. Hey, I can appreciate your anger at smoking.

I've eaten in restaurants where there was smoke, and it frankly puts me off my food. But I know going in what kind of place it is, and if it's smokey, I won't eat there. Just like I won't go to a bar with smoke in it. I don't like the smell of it, I don't like the look of it, and frankly, I think it's gross.

In short, it's not for me.

But I do like to drink a bit, and I like my freedom in a lot of areas. I'm much more jealous of my liberty than I am of some peoples' bad habits.

[NeedleCast]

46. Ban Driving

Driving killed one of my uncles and a 2nd cousin. Obviously it should be banned.

[youthere]

8. Tax cigarettes?

Fine..then tax booze, Big Macs and Mt. Dew too-and at the same rate. If we are going to get punitive as a society about vices then lets be fair...and for the record, I am NOT a smoker.

[Tyler Durden]

16. DEAL! nt

[youthere]

21. ..

[DaveJ]

23. That's a lot of vices I will have to pick up, to support the kids. nt

[youthere]

33. you'd better get crackin!

LOL!

[dmallind]

25. Same rate

Sure - if the tax on my daily intake of booze was the same as that of a pack of cigarettes I'd be very happy indeed. Unfortunately people tend to want the same tax on a pack as opposed to a draft beer, since these are the retail packaging units. However even the most ardent chain smoker cannot kill a pack in the time even a sipper will normally finish a beer.

[snooper2]

9. I guess this will piss you off then...

I pay $171 a year for full coverage on my motorcycle. :)

[dmallind]

14. 151 here - and it's a 1300cc long distance bike

that I put a lot of miles on too ;-)

[rubberducky]

10. I suppose no overweight people allowed either.

Only extremely healthy people need apply.

[RebelOne]

11. I guess I'm out of your actuarial group.

I smoke, drink a lot of wine and I used to sky dive. But I could care less what you think.

[dmallind]

12. Impossible

Do you cycle? Jog? Are you a woman of childbearing age (probably no with your screen name, but making no assumptions - and of course you can also be married/partnered to such a woman too)? Do you drive more than the average person, live in a higher crime neighborhood regardless of your own behavior, or work in a job that entails risk of injury? Then you too have factors that exacerbate your health risks. It's impossible to be that granular in health risk causes.

There is also too much made of actuarial differences in health care costs because I have NEVER seen a study, certainly not from an advocacy group, that includes end of life costs for those who do not smoke, drink etc and balances those against the "extra" health care costs of that activity. Sure smoking causes increased chance of certain conditions, as does boozing and being VERY overweight (actually being somewhat overweight is the reverse). However we can only take such comparisons seriously if they also ask "well if that smoker had not died of lung cancer at 69 how would they have died at 84 and how much health care expense would they have incurred in that time that was saved by their early mortality - not only in health care costs but in social security and other subsidies?"

[splat]

15. Fear everything, die anyway

This is faith-based on your part. You can't cherry-pick your risk based on behaviors you avoid.

Fewer smokers get Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases than non-smokers, and nicotine seems to reduce the risk of ulcerative colitis and rheumatoid arthritis and colorectal cancer.

The death rate doesn't change, causes of death do. (As lung cancer deaths decline, heart disease rises.)

Fear and timidity can be lethal too, and, interestingly, are linked to heart patients. Beware.

[wuushew]

32. Nicotine can be consumed in ways other than combusting tobacco

n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

18. Things I want banned entirely from my 'nanny state'....

1) perfume (burns my eyes and throat)
2) all cell phones in public space, in cars, and on others' private property (keep all your cell phones in your own house).
3) loud music
4) ice crunchers (those who insist on crunching ice cubes in their mouths)
5) people weighing over 250 pounds seated in 'cabin' class airplane seats
6) people who stink
7) SUVs

[annabanana]

24. STILL prefer Nanny to Big Brother. . . . . n/t

[MADem]

20. Well, it's only a matter of time before your ox is gored.

You may be a wuss, but you may have some "bad DNA" up in there.

A fellah I knew who smoked all his life died at 101. Sure, the odds were against him, but what about that DNA biz, there???

After all, you can hide in your yard and get hit on the head by a chunk of airplane blue ice, like that lady on Six Feet Under.

You could, scared of the dark, turn on all your lights, have one of them short out, and burn you up in your bed.

Some asshole could plow their car into your house and kill you while you sat watching the Price is Right...

Ya never know.

I always thought smokers DID pay more, like people who ride motorcycles.

[Romulox]

22. What about FATSOS? Heart disease (aggravated by obesity) is the #1 killer

I want out of the actuarial tables with all the fatties. Oh, and old people. Insurance would sure be cheaper then!

:sarcasm:

[unpossibles]

26. I agree. In fact, we should add "meat eaters" to the group to

since they have a higher rate of heart disease and colon cancer.

Also, what about people who drive cars? Very dangerous activity that.

Oh, and anyone who swims. You can drown, you know.

</sarcasm>

[SoCalDem]

30. Let's have a separate group for Pizza-hounds & Donut Devourers

and while we're at it, let's have one for the Pepsi-Coke-Doritos crowd too..


The REASON why "group" coverage works is because there will usually be a large enough pool to guarantee coverage to ALL..even the wacky daredevils and the careless people..

:sarcasm:..sort of :)

[sandnsea]

36. Alcohol, tobacco, firearms & fats

Tax it all, give us single payer.

[txaslftist]

38. Or tax none of it and give us freedom.

[sandnsea]

40. Sick people aren't free n/t

[txaslftist]

42. Sure they are. Your post makes no sense at all.

They're free to stop doing whatever is making them sick, they're free to get medical attention if they can afford it, they're free to exercise, diet, etc, etc. They're also free to keep on smoking and taking their chances.

That's what freedom is, the ability to make choices, even when those choices are self-injurious.

Freedom isn't about making other people feel comfortable. I see someone with a piece of metal piercing their eyebrow or a ring in their nose, it turns my stomach. It looks like it hurts like hell, and I think, "Geeze that must be awful when you sneeze, only a lunatic would do that." But I'm not going to go and pass a law that says you can't pierce your nose or tattoo your eyelids.

That's liberty. Allowing people to make choices that disgust you, so long as they don't harm you.

[sandnsea]

44. if they can afford it

And if they can't, and they can't work to be able to afford it, then fuck 'em.

More of that south park sophistry, no doubt.

[txaslftist]

45. Whether they have medical care provided...

...from their income or from insurance or from a single payer government program is irrelevant to the issue of their freedom.

Freedom doesn't mean you are entitled to recieve or not receive anything in particular. It means you get to make choices free from government interference in matters of personal living choices. This "sophistry" of yours makes no sense at all.

[JackRiddler]

39. By this post you may have forfeited

the highly honored name of Tyler Durden.

(Then again, Tyler Durden doesn't believe in a health plan at all, does he? But if he did, I'd think he'd be for single-payer over your preference.)