British medical professionals see "Sicko"

[mr blur]

'I don't know how American doctors can work in a system that means they have to turn people away'
Haseena Iqbal, 30, GP

The film was an amazing eye-opener. Of course you see things in the media, but you really get no inkling of what the US system is really like. It is astonishing that a country can be so advanced in some ways yet its health system can be so backward. Moore's basic point is very simple: the NHS is free at the point of use, and crucially, as a patient you will get seen. I don't know how American doctors can work in a system that means they have to turn people away.

<snip>

'The NHS system where you pay £6.65 for virtually any drug is pretty amazing'
Muna Ahmed, 32, clinical genetics specialist

You get the point of the film pretty quickly: the US system is terrible unless you've got lots of money. I don't think I could be a doctor in a system like that of the US. The film reinforced my view that the NHS is a world-class system and I'm really proud of it and really proud to be working in it. But I can see that even for someone very pro-NHS, Moore's portrayal went a little over the top. It was very rose-tinted. But people do get very good treatment in the NHS. The service is absolutely fantastic. People complain, but it's usually about the waiting; once they've actually seen someone you hardly hear any complaints. A system where you pay £6.65 for virtually any drug is pretty amazing. From the doctor's point of view it is not bad either; there certainly are GPs who earn £85,000 and have the kind of lifestyle of the NHS GP in Sicko.

<snip>

http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/comment/0,,2175763,00.html

[BlooInBloo]

1. It's not funny 'cuz it's true.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

2. "Doctors in the US must have to compromise their ethics"

That assumes that they have ethics.

"I found it really hard to understand how you can have such a different ethos in the same profession..."

[melody]

5. They are doctors and they are American -- that's why they're here

Doctors are as diverse as any other group, but they vote primarily liberal and I've known
many who were fine, decent, highly ethical people. But they're doctors and they live here.

[lateo]

7. This

[DrDan]

3. this is a lie - "I'm really proud of it and really proud to be working in it"

I know that is not true - because I heard different on hannity.

[CGowen]

9. "Moore's portrayal went a little over the top. It was very rose-tinted." n/t

[DrDan]

10. actually - mine was a tongue-in-cheek comment

According to hannity, no one with national health care likes it - that is why they all, without exception, want to come to the U.S. for their healthcare. Our system, according to hannity, is without fault. (and perhaps he is right for the suppliers of our healthcare - they are closer and closer each day to a license to steal)

Sorry I was not clearer.

[area51]

4. k&r (n/t)

[OzarkDem]

6. Gee, they though med mal reform woud fix everything

Is it safe to say after patients lost their Constitutional rights to private action that the cost of malpractice insurance still hasn't come down?

Most of the docs I know are bright people when it comes to their chosen profession, but are as easily fooled and misled when it comes to politics and public policy.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

13. Yeah...

"Is it safe to say after patients lost their Constitutional rights to private action that the cost of malpractice insurance still hasn't come down?"

Why don't more liberals get pissed off about this?

And why doesn't Edwards bring up the issue of medical malpractice and connect it with not just a larger theme about health care, but the larger populist theme of his campaign? He could show people that as a trial lawyer he fought for people's rights, fought to hold incompetent doctors accountable, etc.

Republicans portray Edwards as a greedy lawyer who got rich 'stealing' the hard-earned money of doctors (See, for example, Ann Coulter on Hardball a few months back).

Discussing medical malpractice in a populist manner would do much to discredit this attack, which, though not used as much as in 2004, still has currency and undoubtedly would come up again were he to get the nomination.

[supernova]

8. Who is this guy kidding?

Doctors in the British system are very efficient in terms of the number of people they see, but they spend a lot less time with each patient than in the US'
Karim Ahmed, 34, A&E registrar


Most clinic schedules are broken into 15 minute increments. I can't think of a unit of time smaller than that for an apt. If you are a new patient, you might get an hour. But only if you're new.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

15. Very true.

Even with Leukemia, I have very brief doctor appointments, never coming anywhere close to an hour, not even when hospitalized.

Even in the US, it's all about volume, see as many patients as possible. But in the US it's not about getting the most # of people as healthy as possible; it's about making as much money as possible.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. You can't think of a unit of time smaller than 15 minutes?

OK, try 10 minutes - as a longer than average appointment. From 2005, quoting a 2002 paper:

What is the evidence for 10 minute appointment times improving patient care in Primary Care GP consultations?
...
“Recognition and management of patient problems (2 studies with 3 papers): one study found that faster doctors (average consultation length less than 7 minutes) recognised and dealt with fewer long-term problems than slower doctors (average consultation time 9 minutes or more), (P<0.05); the other study found that patient centredness was associated with average consultation length.”

http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/index.cfm?question=479

But the average time is increasing:

GPs in England spend almost 40% longer on each patient consultation than they did in 1992/93, research shows.

Data released by the Information Centre for Health and Social Care show the average consultation time in 2006/07 was 11.7 minutes, up from 8.4 minutes.

The number of consultations carried out by GP practices has risen - but the number of home visits has dropped.

Doctors are working roughly the same surgery hours as they did when the last survey was carried out in 1992/93.

However, most are not working outside "normal" hours as they once did. In 1992/93 the average GP worked around seven hours a week outside surgery hours.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6923639.stm

So, yes, 15 minutes with a patient would be well above the English average.

[IronLionZion]

11. There are plenty of Americans who wish they had wait times

because then they would get healthcare eventually. In America you don't have wait times, you just don't get health care at all if you can't afford it or your insurance won't pay for it. Waiting for some special procedure is much better than not getting it at all.

[abmand]

12. NHS will never come to america

thats not to say we wont have a universal system. i have friends up in canada (one of them works for a private GP) and says that the private sector for healthcare is booming because many are dissatisfied with the national system. Sicko was a basic MM movie. it should be taken with a "grain" of salt. he mentioned at one point that fire departments are socialistic institutions, but whathe fails to realize is that most FD's in the US are private companies that provide fire protection service. they charge the town a fee and the town pays it, but then collects taxes to cover the cost of the payment. many FD's dont have to actually put out a Fire if they dont want too, if the town doesnt pay, there wont be anyone comming to that 2nd alarm fire thats in your house.

[kenny blankenship]

14. No fair! They talk like we don't value human life. Of course we value human life...

What do they think our computerized credit ratings are for !?!?

[AnotherGreenWorld]

16. Television is a great band, Mr blur.

Good taste.