Anyone who believes corporations are more efficient than government...

[Mythsaje]

have obviously never WORKED for a corporation.

The "conservatives" and "Libertarians" would like us to believe that government is inherently incompetent when, in truth, it only seems that way in particular when THEY are in charge of it. Sure, bureaucracy can be a problem, but it's no more a problem in government than it is in corporate circles.

Speaking from experience, communication within corporations is often sporadic and not in the least bit helpful. At one point in a former job, my boss went nearly a year without ONCE hearing from HIS boss. That was right after the bigwigs decided to take part of our facility and ship it to Canada, a move that not only cost thousands of dollars in transportation and labor, but also moved a machine that was breaking production records company-wide to a place where the average production per machine was HALF what was being produced at this particular location.

I'm in a completely different field now, working for an entirely different corporation. There's a host of stupid things that happen every day. A lack of people on the floor, an expectation of accomplishment that's beyond the possible considering the resources available, and a host of other things that make a LOT of us want to bang our head against the nearest wall. When the night crew, the ones charged with the majority of stocking, get lazy and put things where they don't belong, or over-stock things that we then have to return to the back room the next day, leave things on the floor rather than on the shelves where they belong because they don't want to return the overstock to the warehouse, break shelf dividers because they cram more into the space than actually fit...all without ANY repercussions by ANYONE in authority.

Most corporations, from my experience, are grossly inefficient. They waste time, energy, manpower, and resources, often in a ill-considered attempt to pad the "bottom line" when, in the end, they probably lose ground due to their foolish choices and lack of effective communication.

Those who believe the "free market" decides things, and believe that accounting practices and the "bottom line" should dictate choices, often do not seem to realize the value of simple human energy. Though it may be, on the surface, cost effective to under-staff a location, and push the workers to higher productivity on an individual basis, it tends to promote attitudes amongst those same workers that are not beneficial to the company's long-term health.

And what gets me the most about the Libertarian types? Why they think government is by nature corrupt when corporations, with no vested interest in anything beyond profit, are far more vulnerable to corrupting influences as a whole.

[Trajan]

1. Well said ....

All efficiencies gained from corporate oversight are lost as a trade off from services to profits ....

Getting less and less and paying more and more to fewer and fewer ....

[ThoughtCriminal]

2. There's a reason everbody recognizes Dilbert's Boss

PHB's have become the rule rather than the exception and it's ruining us.

[wildhorses]

3. k and r

it is power to the truth. i have had the same experience as well. small business is one thing large corporations are another thing entirely. management and administration, for the most part, are a joke. the peter principle and the good old boy network are always ineffective means of keeping the glass ceiling in place. thanks for this post.

[leftofthedial]

4. 21 months ago I moved

I went online and changed my address with a corporation I deal with frequently. It didn't work. A couple of months later, I went back online and changed my address again. Again, it didn't work.

(I've been a member of this organization and conducted regular business with them for over twenty years. Formost of that time, I received two or three pieces of mail from them every month. I have never received mail from them at my new address.)

Another couple of months later, I called them and asked to change my address. They said they couldn't do it over the phone, but could send me a change of address form--TO MY OLD ADDRESS. That didn't work--it never arrived. I even went to my old house and asked the new owners to please look for that piece of mail and I would come get it.

A few months later, I traveled to another city and was able to visit one of their offices in person. I changed my address with a live human at their office. That didn't work.

I went back online and now all traces of me, my account and my relationship with this organization were gone! I tried unsuccessfully to login. A substantial portion of my income at times comes through this organization. I called and was unable to speak with any live person. I left voice mail. Hearing nothing back, I called and again left voice mail. All to no avail.

For a variety of reasons, I've been in a major "I-don't-give-a-fuck" mode for the last couple of years. I'm amazed, looking back, that I even pursued this to the extent I did. Anyhow, at that point I just said screw it.

Today, I got a hand-addressed letter with my correct new address from this organization. Enclosed was a change of address form and computer-generated form letters with my old address on them.




sheesh.

[Mythsaje]

5. Amazing, isn't it?

On the other hand, if you have to file a change of address with a government agency for some reason, they usually manage to figure it out.

[leftofthedial]

10. the post office got it figured out immediately

the IRS got it figured out immediately

Agent Mike got it figured out immediately

LOL

[BlooInBloo]

6. Always good to have the considered opinion of a trained historical economist - thanks!

[Mythsaje]

7. ROFL

Or just a professional amateur busybody.

[BlooInBloo]

20. What's the difference, really?

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Although I mostly agree, it does cut both ways...

and it's not really corporate vs. state but how organizations can screw up and ultimately become staic wastes of time.

My favorite example of what you're saying is right here on Long Island, where a few towns opted in for New York State Power Authority electricity while most of the island went with LILCO, thinking the state would fuck it up.

Well, the towns with PASNY are now paying some of the lowest rates in the country while LILCO doesn't exist any more, having gone bankrupt. Its successor, LIPA, is charging even more than LILCO did and we likely have the highest rates in the nation.

On the other hand, there was that public Washington power authority that went belly up a few years ago, just before LILCO got into trouble.

Of course, there are hundreds of examples we could pick out of a hat, and I've worked for three of the Fortune 500 in some management capacity and have plenty of my own Dilbert stories to tell. The thing is, though, that for each company or government agency that's screwing up, there's another one doing just fine. Both sectors have certain advantages and disadvantages built in, and there are things each can excel at.

[Mythsaje]

9. Yeah, my argument is that I don't think EITHER of them

is inherently less efficient than the other. Or corrupt, for that matter.

[unblock]

11. there's also a big selection fallacy -- which things corporations vs. governments DO

corporations and governments have different aims, and usually when people complain about efficiency, they're using the wrong metric.

for instance, government typically aims to give a service equally to all, whereas corporations aim to provide cost-effective service only to the extent profitable. the classic example is mail delivery. people marvel about the efficiency of fedex, getting mail from point a to point b efficiently while the post office has stories about mail taking years to deliver. but what about delivering mail to that remote location in alaska that requires getting off a main road and travelling by dogsled and fording a river? the us postal service will get your mail there for the same $0.41 (or whatever the rate is these days) that they charge anyone else. fedex's efficient solution? no service at any price. not even their customary 30 times higher than first class price.

moreover, that piece of mail that took the post office years to deliver, because they found it behind a piece of equipment when they had to repair it? you only heard about it at all because the post office has integrity and decided to deliver the piece despite the bad publicity. anyone who's worked in a large corporation knows damn well that if an old piece of undelivered mail was found at fedex, they would throw it straight in the trash.


more -- if anything makes corporations efficient, it's competition. too many margers leads to less competition, more trusts and monopolies and there goes your efficiency.

finally, any large organization can be corrupted. the public vs. private debate misses the point entirely.

[robcon]

12. Corporations are MUCH more efficient than government.

I've worked for both - NYC, and several businesses in a 30 year career.

I will never forget the warning my friend got for working too hard in the NYC office. While the efficiency of the corporations I've worked for varied, the worst corp was far more efficient than my one experience working for NYC government.

[EFerrari]

13. I worked for ATT for a time and my job was to look busy.

It came with management track and a parking space.

[w4rma]

18. Instead of looking at how hard *you* worked, look at the cost of the product to the consumer. (nt)

[Mythsaje]

22. NYC might be a bad example...

It's notoriously corrupt and inefficient...historically speaking, at least.

[klyon]

14. It seems to me that competition is inherently inefficient

unused capacity to start with
when a company drives another out of business thru competition the loser's equipment, trained personnel and facility are left to rot
well said, short term profit is the only bottom line

[The2ndWheel]

15. "They waste time, energy, manpower, and resources"

And the larger either corporations or governments get, the more they waste. Since both entities require endless growth, the smaller the corporations and governments are, the more competition. Competition has to end in one winner, so we get that cycle. Then you have the wasting of time, energy, manpower, and resources simply because corporations and governments co-exist.

In the end, you can't win.

[Toots]

16. I watched an interview with Bill Clinton a few days ago

He has put together an organization with the sole purpose of helping lessor nations combat disease and famine. His organization has given more funding to poor countries than the US government has and Clinton said there was no way a government could do the things he has been able to do because of bureaucracy. I am not sure if what he has is a corporation or not but definitely it is accomplishing things our govewrnment can/will not do..

[ourbluenation]

19. I think the OP is talking about for-profit corps. n/t

[Locrian]

17. the bigger they get

The bigger they get, the more time and resources are spent on maintaining status quo. They are NOT more efficient. It is scary how BAD they are becoming at actually getting things done. Process is king, with a god of the stock market price.

We have 2 or more generations of absolutely NO hands on experience by management. Beginning with the death of manufacturing and continuing on with the mass outsourcing of EVERY technical function - we have lost GENERATIONS of ability to actually design and produce product.

[Az]

21. Government is not Business

This is an unfortunate notion that was brought in by the GOP and the Economic conservatives. It completely misses the fact that Government deals with social issues as well as simple economic issues and in fact the social issues are more important than the econ. We are dependent on the economic issues but they exist to serve the social issues. But with the econ first crowd they eventually crowd out any concern for social issues and leave us with nothing but greed running the system.

[StrongBad]

23. In a general sense what you say is true

Government and its operations are only as good as the people planning them and the objectives they are trying to achieve. And, in many cases they can be actually very productive and useful. Case in point: our postal service.

That being said, there is one avenue where privately owned entities will always reign supreme over governmental authority - competition and innovation.

Competition is self explanatory - it causes a business in an industry to provide the absolute best quality of service or risk total elimination. Additionally, although initial ideas and technologies can be uncovered by governmental approved research, ultimately the diffusion of technologies and the booms that come along with such discoveries are best proliferated by private entities.