92 sq. miles of Solar Could Power the USA

[donsu]

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/991/


The stigma of solar as only one of many solutions needed to satisfy our energy needs may not be true. David Mills, chairman and chief scientific officer of solar company Ausra, recently presented a paper at the International Solar Energy Society conference saying that solar thermal plants could indeed solve all of our energy problems, including nighttime electricity. I know...all our energy problems??? Well, I guess it's worth taking a look.

The plants use mirrors arranged in a Fresnel configuration to heat tubes of liquid rather than solar cells that convert the sunlight directly into electricity. The steam produced by the heated liquids power turbines that create electricity. While not a new technique, Mills says the technology will allow liquids to hold heat and produce steam during the night also. The paper calculates that 92 square miles of solar thermal farm could power the entire country.

Despite the optimistic results of their calculations, they warn that a plan like this requires a complete revamping of the current electric infrastructure. The country's AC grid would have to be converted to High Voltage DC in order to decrease transmission loss from 50% to around 3% while moving the power from the sunny Southwest to the power-hungry North East. Miles says this would be a huge undertaking that would help move the country from "capital-intensive fossil fuel plants that need to run 24/7" to "electricity created by people's and the economy's daily rhythm," which solar and wind energy follows closely.

In the meantime, Ausra plans to develop a 175-megawatt solar power plant with their solar storage technology, hitting the market mid-2009.
-snip-
---------------------

well, we'd better start doing something! anything! tick, tick, tick

[angstlessk]

1. We need to manufacture SOMETHING and since our cash is not worth

alot in other countries, this will be made here and stay here it is a WIN/WIN situation if you ask me!

[panader0]

2. Anyone out there have a link to affordable solar power?

[Joanne98]

10. link

http://www.nanosolar.com/pr5.htm

[skids]

11. Best buy right now is in australia for PV.

At green and gold energy.

...but we should see concentrators coming to retail in the next year or so. You can get them through some systems integrators now. However if you are in an area that gets a lot of clouds, keep tabs on thin films instead of concentrators.

I diaried the current state of the concentrator market on dkos here.

My best (nonprofessional) advice is still to install solar water heating now, perhaps space heating, and wait on PV for a couple years. It's a more manageable project with better payback times.

[sam sarrha]

3. the vaccume tube system is much more effecient, but we need all kinds..LINKs>>

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/climate-change/solutions/solar

we will soon be on our own... the sooner the better

[aquart]

4. Oh, look. An idea that creates jobs.

How rare and unusual.

[Lorien]

8. The whole project would likely cost less than one year in Iraq

I have no idea what the cost would be, but I have an inkling of what we're spending over there. Here we have something that could create loads of new safe jobs for AMERICANS, could make it possible for us to stay out of the mideast for good, AND could help to slow global warming. The only catch? The same motherf*ckers who are cashing in on war and fossil fuels may not make massive profits from it. Maybe if Halliburton won a no-bid contract for the project the plan would have a chance...

[pnorman]

5. How much of EVERYTHING would be required for just a single square mile?

I recall in HS Chemistry, many decades ago, we were told how many tons of Gold was contained in a single cubic mile of seawater. It was: "WOW!!" from us kids, until the teacher managed to convey just how MUCH seawater was involved. (I forgot the details, but still retain the image).

I'm not deriding the concept, but I guess it'll require a MASSIVE outlay. Gotta get Bush, Cheney, & Halliburton outa the White House NOW, and then get on with such plans!

pnorman

[sam sarrha]

6. what i heard was 2, probably 3 units across the south west to eastern TX ..10 miles square..of the

new vacuum tube collectors developed under clinton and privatized into oblivion by the wet Brain alcoholic corporate whore in the white house

[TwilightZone]

7. Manhattan Island is 34 square miles.

So, we're talking about covering nearly three Manhattans with solar panels.

Edit: only 23 square miles is land, so it's actually more like four Manhattans.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan

[robinlynne]

12. I saw on a pbs documentary, that putting current solar panels across the mohave

desert would be enough power for the entire US. That is doable. very doable. And the animals who live there could continue to live there (I hope).

[BadgerLaw2010]

14. A project four times the land area of Manhattan is "very doable?"

[robinlynne]

15. The mohave Desert is doable. That is how much land they need. exactly.

for ALL US needs.

[BadgerLaw2010]

27. The land is doable. I question the mechanics of *building* it.

The land is the easiest part, by far. Even the 92 miles square is technically available in certain parts of the Southwest.

But the land doesn't do anything for ya.

[robinlynne]

31. And the problem is? (aside from rightwing politics?)

[BadgerLaw2010]

39. A tremendous logistical challenge. This would be the biggest complex man-made structure, by far.

Nothing else even comes close to even the smaller (92 square miles) array. And it's not just a paving project. You want it to be a working power plant that distributes electricity across the country.

Nevermind the actual size of the thing, which is 8,464 square miles.

[robinlynne]

40. The size is only the size of that desert for the ENTIRE country. Obviously it would be 4 or 5 smalle

Germany is nearly 20% solar already.

[depakid]

38. There's also that pesky entropy law

which surely isn't figured into the equations- i.e., how would one transmit and store the power over long distances? Not to mention the energy and toxic materials required for construction and maintenance.

[OzarkDem]

21. Nevada for example

There are many areas of the US that are sparsely populated and receive a lot of sun. It seems feasible.

[murloc]

28. We managed to cram millions of people and cover every square inch of Manhatten with concrete

I would think that building solar collectors would be much easier over the same area.

[pitohui]

24. obviously the animals and plant life living there will be exterminated actually

i've seen a solar installation in the nevada desert

no way anything could live on it, how could they unless they're one of those bacteria that are happy to live in a nuclear reactor or something

i believe what we need are smaller more efficient solar cells of some kind that can be put on the roof of houses and businesses -- areas that are mostly dead as living space anyway

[petronius]

17. I think the article is off a bit - it's not 92 square miles, but rather 92 miles square

i.e., a square 92 miles long on each side, or 8464 square miles...

[TwilightZone]

18. You're right, it is 92 miles square and not square miles.

That changes things a bit!

[pitohui]

23. jesus what a terrible destruction of habitat!

there's no way unless they plan to put it in outer space somehow

[ThomWV]

20. Doesn't matter much. Electrical power can only be transmitted about 200 miles.

The reason electrical plants dot the country is not because its harder to build one big one than a lot of little ones, its because you can't transmit the power they produce very far; about 250 miles is the maximum and 200 is more in the ballpark.

[pitohui]

25. that's why i like the idea of an efficient rooftop panel

if we could get those things affordable it would change the world

this project is just more of the same, a big monster that wipes out habitat on a huge scale, which is one of the gripes people have about solar to begin with

[backscatter712]

33. Rooftop solar needs to be pushed hard.

There are solar collectors for rooftops that are either pure electric cells, or reflective heating of fluids - whatever works.

Certainly, the .gov could fund research into cheap, efficient panels that could be mass-produced in huge quantities, and subsidize their installation on new and existing homes. Throw in some banks of batteries to store electricity for nights and poor weather, and we could take a gigantic bite out of our fossil fuel consumption.

While we're at it, every 40 acres of farmland in this country should have a big wind turbine on it. That will take another huge bite out of fossil fuel consumption.

[whopis01]

41. That is not true.

In Inga-Shaba line in the DR Congo is over 1000 miles long.

The cost effective limit of high voltage transmission is around 4000 miles (though there are no transmission lines that long).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inga-Shaba

[Tesha]

42. Nonsense. New England gets a large portion of its power from...

> Electrical power can only be transmitted about 200 miles.

Nonsense. New England gets a large portion of its power
from James Bay, Quebec. Care to guess how far that is
from the southern terminal in Ayer, Massachusetts?

Tesha

[Joanne98]

9. They have nanosolar panels now that are so small they can be printed

As in printer! They are building a plant in Silicon Valley right now. No they aren't on the stock exchange yet, but what an IPO that's going to be. the Google guys have even invested in the company.

http://www.nanosolar.com/pr5.htm
Nanosolar Secures $100,000,000 in Funding
Substantial Cleantech Equity Financing for Breakthrough Solar Cell Technology; Cementing Leadership Position Towards Delivering Grid-Parity Peak Power
PALO ALTO, California - June 21, 2006 - Nanosolar Inc., a global leader in solar power innovation, today announced that it now has $100 million in funding to take its breakthrough photovoltaic (PV) solar electricity technology into volume production.

The company announced it has completed a Series C Preferred Stock financing in the amount of more than $75 million, which, in conjunction with government factory subsidies recently secured, brings its total cash position (including non-debt cash equivalents) to just above $100 million.

"This will allow us to further expand our leadership position in solar power innovation," said Martin Roscheisen, CEO of Nanosolar Inc. "We are looking forward to working with our new investors and partners, who have very successful track records in clean energy, to lead the industry on a path of rapidly more cost-efficient solar electricity."

In addition to strong participation by the company's existing investors including venture firms MDV-Mohr Davidow Ventures, Benchmark Capital, Firelake Capital, Onpoint as well as Japanese trading leader Mitsui, new investors include:
- SAC Capital and GLG Partners, two world-class investment funds with substantial PV industry investment experience;
- Swiss Re, the insurance sector leader of the Dow Jones Sustainability Index;
- Grazia Equity, the original backer of Conergy AG, the world's largest PV system integrator;
- Christian Reitberger, the original backer of Q-Cells, the world's largest independent silicon cell PV manufacturer;
- Capricorn Management, the investment arm of Jeff Skoll, known for its support of clean energy causes;
- the investment arms of SAP founders Klaus Tschira (via FirstVentury) and Dietmar Hopp, and
- Beck, a leading PV power plant system integrator.

"Nanosolar is the one company we believe has really put together all the pieces necessary to produce a distinct leap forward in the cost efficiency and production scalability of PV cells and panels; we're enthusiastically looking forward to be working with the team," said Alec Rauschenbusch, a Managing Director of Grazia Equity and a board member of Conergy AG.

"As the world's leading and most diversified reinsurer, Swiss Re is strongly committed to sustainability and strives to leverage its expertise in this area in both risk management and investments," commented Hans Mehn, head of Direct Investments at Swiss Re. "We are attracted to the economics and scalability of Nanosolar's solar power technology as well as the fit of this investment into Swiss Re's Sustainability Portfolio."

"Coal-fired power plants are one of the biggest drivers of global warming," added Jeff Skoll. "As we shift towards a future where the risks of global warming are recognized as both unsustainable and immoral, a company like Nanosolar can help us keep power affordable."

Added Erik Straser, General Partner, MDV-Mohr Davidow Ventures: "This financing is not only a testament to the differentiation of Nanosolar’s technology but also a reflection on the entire team and execution capability of the company."

"We are pleased to have been able to achieve such a broad consensus among the leading investors in this industry that we have managed to develop the world's distinctly most cost-efficient, mass-manufacturable solar cell," said Martin Roscheisen. "We are excited about working with our extended team to build a company that contributes to ensuring a safe future where there will be affordable electricity without the risk from carbon emissions."

About Nanosolar

Nanosolar is a global leader in solar power innovation. Nanosolar's solar electricity panels deliver unparalleled cost efficiency, enabling customers to use green power without paying more. With its proprietary nanoparticle ink and fast roll-printing technology, Nanosolar owns the processes and designs to produce the world's most cost-efficient solar cells and make them available in many versatile product forms. The company's headquarters are in Palo Alto, California, with European operations based in Berlin, Germany. More information on Nanosolar is available on the Internet at www.nanosolar.com.

[leftofthedial]

13. not unless we make it extremely profitable and cede all profits

to the oil companies and power utilities

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. Yep! nt

[warren pease]

26. And this is so critical to the sustainability of human and animal life on earth...

...that I'm actually willing to give the vultures whatever it takes for them to build and maintain such a system. We don't have the luxury of running on fossil fuels any longer. Signs of global climate crisis are everywhere, from the polar and Greenland ice caps melting to collapsing ice shelves in Antarctica to increased severity of tropical storms to the steady increase in killer heat waves to desertification in some former farm belts to increasingly severe and widespread droughts to increasingly common forest fires throughout the northern hemisphere to...

You name it, it was predicted at least 35 years ago when I first heard about "the greenhouse effect" in a college geography class. And now the skeptics and paid deniers and the rest of the see and hear no evil crowd are as fucked as everybody else.

So yeah, if Exxonmobil and Con Ed can earn the contracts (as in competitive bidding, for a change) for a massive infrastructure retrofit, fine with me. This is too important to worry about who gets rich off the project.

This is your free-market capitalist tool broadcasting from corruption central, signing off.


wp

[pitohui]

30. except it wouldn't work, at least not to save any animals or habitat

these giant projects don't save animals/endangered plants/habitat, they destroy it

so ceding all to exxonmobile isn't going to do anything except make some fat cat rich while destroying every bit of what's left -- the deserts are to be painted over with solar panels, the farmland obviously must be farmed, the mountaintops are a hazardous battery of wind farms, the oceans are as good as dead already, hell, what's left?

we need to seriously turn away from "big projects" and the "big" ideas, what's going to save any tiny bit of habitat is to have a way to make areas that are already ruined as habitat (rooftops) a practical way to manufacture and store the solar energy

turning the whole thing over the big energy industry is just more of the same, and giving them carte blanche to destroy what little habitat and scenery is left

[warren pease]

35. Point well made and taken...

... On further review, as the blind, striped idiots say on TeeVee, I think your points completely refute my position. I had considered limited desert habitat destruction as a price of implementing a system that could achieve a greater good for millions of other species.

But you're right in that big biz has never engaged in any mega construction project, to my knowledge, that hasn't resulted in massive environmental devastation -- dams, bridges, hill-top and open-pit mining, clear-cutting, even road building. No reason to think that a project covering 92 miles square, along with the kind of gigantic infrastructure upgrade necessary, would be any different.

Yup, small-scale, off-the-grid solar heating and electric power generation, along with a small wind turbine to produce electricity during lousy weather and pump well water, sounds like a plan.

Thanks for the counter-argument. Really made me think about the whole thing and gave me a very different perspective.


wp

[earth mom]

16. Another reason why we need Gore in 08! nt

[TwilightZone]

19. As noted by petronius above, it's 92 miles square and not 92 square miles.

8464 square miles.

[murloc]

29. thats a rather dramatic difference.

[BlooInBloo]

32. That's our well-educated community... Off by 2 orders of magnitude...

... It was clear in the title. It was explicitly mentioned in like the 3rd comment. But still it can't be stated correctly.

So solar panels 7 times the size of Rhode Island are the magic bullet. Our new 48th largest state. :rofl:

[TheWraith]

34. Self-delete

Nevermind.

[Neshanic]

36. Phoenix metropolitan is maybe 90 miles wide.

[catmandu57]

37. Solar energy for our home is my last dream

I can get a system installed for around ten grand, that would generate a surplus of energy every month. The more I think about it individual systems would seem to be the way to go, if we could extract ourselves from the mess we're in in Iraq, start collecting taxes from the ones who stole our surplus and the corps, we could install solar power systems across the country.

[DramaOnHwy61]

43. Here's an arerial view of such an installation...

using the same principle, near Barstow, CA, built by the DOE.
The linear array at the lower right is what the article is talking about.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=barstow,+ca&ie=UTF8&ll=34.867166,-116.822305&spn=0.02419,0.039825&t=h&z=15&iwloc=addr&om=1

BTW, that article is sloppy, and most of the comments are idiotic!

[diane in sf]

44. There is enough wind blowing across the upper midwest to double the

amount of power we're generating now by all other sources.

There are many wonderful, clean, employment-generating solutions to our current problems.

[B Calm]

45. I really thought by the year 2007 we would be a lot further

advanced than what we are. It has to the neo cons fault with their heels dug in the mud.

[RestoreGore]

46. It;'s also about educating the public about what is out here

And getting them to understand that many of these changes will improve their lives and not be an imposition on their "comfort"... but also it is the fault of those companies who keep the prices of this energy higher than many can afford that is thwarting the demand. We are now in a period of consequences so the prices must come down and these innovations must be made available to more people for the good of our planet, but will greed even saturate these markets and will solar panels that aren't the size of a state be made available? The technology is out here but people need to be informed and demand it be made available.