Collapse of US Dollar - Is it purposely engineered?

[whistle]

The systemic crisis that is unfolding is either due to incompetence by people at a very high level, or it is purposely engineered. As there has been no lack of warnings on the systemic risks of the current system during the last ten years competent analysts, I personally have come to the conclusion that it has to be purposely engineered.

In that case, I expect during the coming crisis that the dollar will collapse completely, in order for a new currency to be established potentially backed by gold.

As I understand from historical facts, there are some elite banker families that control U.S. Federal Reserve (FED), Bank of England (BOE) and most large European and US Banks.

During the last 20 years, the central banks have sold large portions of their gold reserves.

My question is: WHO HAS BOUGHT THIS GOLD? Is it the same parties that are in control of the FED, BOE and the banks?

In that case we may guess who will be behind a potential new gold-backed currency, be it an "AMRO" or some "privately" controlled World Wide reserve currency.



<snip>
Federal Reserve Monetary Policy Announcement
August 17th, 2007

For immediate release]/b]

Financial market conditions have deteriorated, and tighter credit conditions and increased uncertainty have the potential to restrain economic growth going forward. In these circumstances, although recent data suggest that the economy has continued to expand at a moderate pace, the Federal Open Market Committee judges that the downside risks to growth have increased appreciably. The Committee is monitoring the situation and is prepared to act as needed to mitigate the adverse effects on the economy arising from the disruptions in financial markets.

Voting in favor of the policy announcement were: Ben S. Bernanke, Chairman; Timothy F. Geithner, Vice Chairman; Richard W. Fisher; Thomas M. Hoenig; Donald L. Kohn; Randall S. Kroszner; Frederic S. Mishkin; Michael H. Moskow; Eric Rosengren; and Kevin M. Warsh.

http://www.consumermortgagereports.com/federal-reserve-monetary-policy-announcement/



<snip>
ABN AMRO (Euronext: AAB, NYSE: ABN) is one of the largest banks in Europe and has operations in a shrinking presence globally and is now down to about 55 countries. With its history going back to 1824, ABN AMRO is the result of the merger in 1991 of Algemene Bank Nederland (ABN) and the Amsterdamsche-Rotterdamsche Bank (AMRO).

ABN AMRO Holding N.V. is the name of the holding company, which is listed on Euronext Amsterdam as part of the AEX index and the New York Stock Exchange, among other exchanges. Its main subsidiary is ABN AMRO Bank N.V.

On April 23, 2007, Barclays announced an offer to buy ABN AMRO in an all-share €67 billion deal,<1> In the Barclays offer, ABN AMRO would also sell its US division, Chicago-based LaSalle Bank, to Bank of America in a €16 billion deal. Soon after a consortium of other banks, Royal Bank of Scotland Group, Fortis and Banco Santander, put forth a higher cash offer of €74 billion for the bank.<2>

<MORE>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABN_AMRO

[133724]

1. Perkins ~ CVonfessions Of An Economic Hit Man....

The Short Answer is HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Demeter]

2. Maybe, But It Seems Far-Fetched and Just As Likely To Fail

as everything else these clowns have tried. There are no words to describe the level of willful incompetence in this gang of thugs, pirates and thieves. People would go to barter before they'd become slaves to a gold standard that shuts them out of everything. And the rest of the world wouldn't go along with it, either.

[the other one]

3. A fiat currency is designed to collapse from the beginning

It allows the federal gov't to keep running huge deficits by selling the debt overseas.

Theoretically, a fiat currency will last 40 to 60 years before it is completely valueless. The question is: when did we switch from a hard currency system to a fiat currency. Was it 1965, when coins ceased to minted from silver and started to be made out of cupra-metal crap? Or was it when Nixon officially took us OFF the gold standard? Either way, the end is looming. Those who control the purse have always hoped that they would be gone when the shit hit the fan.

What replaces it is a good question. A de facto gold standard is possible, but unlikely. Global chaos and fascist repression is more likely.

[whistle]

5. So this really began under Richard Nixon in 1971

[halobeam]

7. I thought during national emergencies, the govt is allowed to take our gold now.

anyway, thats what I remember my husband reading an article a month or two back.. a signing statement or something.. hmm I'll go check.

[whistle]

9. That happened in 1933 in FDRs first 100 days I believe

[the other one]

23. Not really true. The gov't ASKED for private gold but

didn't require individuals to turn it in. There were enough exceptions in the act that people did not have to turn it in, but most did anyway.

The exceptions included gold for collectability purposes, and basically any gold that didn't fit under the heading of "hording".

Sadly people did turn in their gold. After the trade in window was closed the govt raised the price of gold, thus screwing the populace. I don't expect people to comply if they ever try it again.

[halobeam]

33. thank you

I'm still looking for what my SO had read. I believe it stated they can now take it.

[Greyhound]

40. If you consider the threat of a 10 year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine

to be "asking" then yes they asked for people's property. Also bear in mind this was 10,000 1933 dollars, about a decades wages at that time.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=14611">Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or of these regulations or of any rule, regulation or license issued thereunder may be fined not more than $10,000, or, if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.

I'm sure it was just a coincidence that all of the exceptions to this "request" were, aside from industrial use, the very gold held by his contemporaries.

FDR did some great things during his reign, but we should also never forget that he was a Patrician class warrior and always made damn sure to take care of his own, and to preserve the system that keeps his class on top.

[the other one]

45. A loophole you could fly a plane through

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person; AND GOLD COINS HAVING A RECOGNIZED SPECIAL VALUE TO COLLECTORS OF RARE AND UNUSUAL COINS.

As all gold coins were "collectible" this is quite a loophole.

Bear in mind that this is the thirties. Since 1986 the govt itself has been in the gold bullion selling business in the Gold Eagle program, and since these coins have been specifically marketed to collectors, I don't see how they could call in gold at this point unless they forced it at gunpoint.

Perhaps they could make it illegal to sell the coins for dollars, but short of buying them back at market prices or "forcing" people to give them up, the govt can't do a damn thing. Maybe they could raid everyones safe deposit boxes in banks, but I tend to think that an action like that would lead to civil unrest in short order.

[Greyhound]

66. Simply not true. Eagles, double eagles, walking and sitting liberties, not to mention

the smaller denominations, were the most common coins and were not considered rare or unusual. As for flying a plane through the "loophole" perhaps if you still had the means to hire competent representation that could be done, but as you know few had the means.

Thanks for the correction on the amount paid.

There was a great deal of gold in private hands and after the crash it began to supplant federal currency as people simply no longer trusted the Fed's paper. Many small merchants and craftsmen would not accept anything but metal after it became apparent that their assets could simply disappear because of what some bankers decided to do or not do.

A significant portion of The People had determined that they would no longer participate in the system of enforced, legalized, theft that the bankers and industrialists had imposed on them. The Progressive movement was in full swing, socialism was not a dirty word, and was endorsed through action, when not by name, by notable political leaders, and the Communist party was making significant headway in changing the face of the nation.

FDR was able to head this off and preserve the institutions of suppression, through the "New Deal" which was, essentially, a deal to let people keep a little more of what they created through their labor and the ruling class had to accept a little less, a deal they vehemently disapproved of.

[the other one]

47. And another one

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses.

Essentially, the gov't was looking for HOARDS of gold, and I am not sure how much that is. They were very careful to provide exceptions for small time private individuals to keep their gold. The fact is that they were happy to take that gold too when it was surrendered.

[Greyhound]

67. A hoard was defined in the order, $100, read the text at the link I provided.

All this was done by executive order, with no debate nor consent.

[Greyhound]

39. FDR seized all of the privately owned gold in 1933, by Executive Order 6102.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=14611">Except for jewelery and "gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors. of rare and unusual coins".

People were paid about $35 an ounce for the gold seized and it solidified the Federal Reserves total control of the American economy. The result of this was to force the citizens participation in the system that had stolen their life's assets and to prop up the institutions that carried out the heist.

It was at this point that we were handed the American version of a fiat currency and made the United States full participants, or hostages depending on your point of view, of the world banking system that the founders of the nation tried to avoid. They were intimately familiar with how this system worked and understood where it invariably leads, too bad that understanding was lost over the years.

[the other one]

46. They were paid $20/oz, and when the window closed

and the govt had as much gold as they could collect the value of the metal was then pegged to $35 / oz. This caused considerable outrage at the time.

I think its worth noting that those who turned in their gold did so out of patriotism, and a belief that the plan was essential to recovery from the great depression.

[Recursion]

64. Any commodity can back a currency.

Oil, for instance, or just generally energy-backed currencies may appear.

[Greyhound]

69. How about time?I know the rich would hate it, but it would make for an

equitable, globally uniform standard.

[rucky]

71. You know what FIAT stands for?

Fix It Again, Treasury.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Can't be engineered...

the world's economy is just too big to be engineered by any group, and the US, being such a huge part of it, is also too big.

In the past, Great Britain, Italy, and a few others have had their currencies deliberately attacked and they fell precipitously. But, the effects lasted only a few days before the currency markets corrected themselves. Looking back at conspiracies like the Hunt Brothers' attempt to buy all the silver in the whole world, these things are just too damn difficult to pull off.

Greed, incompetance, and simply making the wrong decisions are not conspiracies. The simple fact of the matter is that things now are so complex and interdependant that no on has any control.

Aside from possibly the few remaining Swiss Gold Bugs and American tinfoilers, nobody wants a gold-backed currency. There just isn't enough gold out there to run the modern world on. Gold, right now, seems to be bought by equity funds and individuals as a hedge against likely currency failures, but not because the failures are being engineered by the gold holders.

[whistle]

8. Computer internet doesn't overcome that complexity?

[TreasonousBastard]

26. It adds to it. Thanks to modern systems for...

accurately reconciling billions of trades daily around the world, no one can come up with a sure way to track them in real time, must less control them. Moving money around and financial trading is almost in its own universe now.

Computers can track some things, but not on the internet. If you're plugged into the serious networks, you can have the computer identify buying and selling striking points. Thus the "computer trading" you might have heard of. A major point of these trading programs is that human hands MUST stay out of the decisionmaking.

Some things can be slightly manipulated like the Saudis changing crude production, but not big swings, and not for long.

[poverlay]

25. Couldn't the value of gold simply be raised enough to be used? Plus, aren't they still winnowing

gold out of the ground as we speak?

[TreasonousBastard]

28. Yeah, they're mining gold, but a lot of it..

is used in jewelry and manufacturing.

And, nobody "adjusts' the price of gold. It's price is absolutely subject to supply and demand and what the market wants to do with it. Yeah, there was a time when the dollar was pegged to gold and the flat price of gold was $35 an ounce. But, that was a long time ago.

Modern macroeconomics just doesn't allow for the money supply to be tied to a mineral in limited supply. It gets really technical and I'm not that much of an expert, but basically you have to have the flexibility to increase or reduce the money supply, and only fiat money allows you to do that in today's world. One of the reasons for the Depression was tight money brought on by poor decisons in Washington coupled with the reliance on gold to back money.

There's also another problem with the possibility of someone backing another currency with platinum or silver. Gresham's Law says that the cheaper currency will wipe out the more expensive one and leave everyone broke.

[Greyhound]

42. Yes and no. If we were to monetize gold it would be worth about

$20,000 - $25,000 per ounce, and the amount being mined is nowhere near enough to supply the amounts required to back currency, we'd basically have to strip mine the entire planet.

[formercia]

44. At the rate the dollar is collapsing

it won't take that long for Gold to hit $20,000 a ounce. At the point where the dollar bottoms out, the boys can take their Gold and buy the country for a few mills of the dollar amount they bought their Gold..

There was a time when the Canadian Dollar was purposely manipulated and some rich people made a good living doing it.

[JackRiddler]

6. Rather out in the open for 30 years, don't you think?

Borrow for the deficit, run a trade deficit, borrow for consumption, borrow for speculation... what did anyone think was ultimately going to happen to the air-dollar?

[whistle]

12. The borrowing by the little people even in massive numbers

...can't make that happen

[JackRiddler]

21. Debt: Corporate plus government plus personal (which includes "big" people too)

- now exceeds GDP.

[whistle]

22. You bet it does, as in $400 trillion when derivatives and hedge funds

...and mortgage backed borrowing are all linked together!!!

[Dover]

10. Bigger picture?

Hmmmm. It seems I'm not the only one thinking about this issue tonight. I just posted this in the Astrology room. I'll repost it here and spare you the astrological implications and just stick with my thoughts on what's going on with our government, the economy, etc.

The odd stuff going on with Dems and the dismantling of our government by the GOP might be all part of the same scenario. There is, imo, major reshuffling going on because our government is about to change in major ways. How exactly that will manifest is hard to say. But we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

Our economy is shifting along with both national and global infrastructural change.

We haven't felt the economic decline all that acutely yet (at least not like a 'crash') because they've deliberately reduced it slowly, like a boat going through a lock system and changing elevation. This currency shift has many components and reasons, not least of which is that the world economic balance is changing and moving East to Asia. So this 're-evaluation' or leveling of the dollar was and is inevitable and the only real issue has been getting other countries to help us ease into it as painlessly as possible. And we've actually had pretty good cooperation so far. The bigger picture is that there is an attempt to change over into global trade regions which is why the U.S./Mexico/Canada are setting the groundwork for something similar to what Europe has done and what Asia and the Middle East intends to do as well. And each region will have their own currency. Or at least that is the plan. I think the U.S. had hoped to be a larger trading region that would include South America. But it looks like there is major resistance to that scenario from several of our southern neighbors.

So I think the economic situation will continue to slide until a certain level is reached, and could receive a jolt if any of the countries holding U.S. dollar currency and interests decides it's finally time to cut and run.
The dollar itself, as a currency, is on the way out and every one of our trading partners knows and expects that. Will gold be a standard again? Maybe for awhile during this shift. Not sure.

I feel we are witnessing the end of government as we've known it. This could include, perhaps the end of the Constitution/Bill of Rights and traditional governance of every kind. And you can bet corporations have every intention of stepping into the drivers seat. Corporate governance will attempt to replace national governance, likely presenting themselves as a new regional government in some form. I'm guessing Europe will be the model.
The people will have to insist on globalizing OUR way if we are to avoid the 'big brother' scenarios.

[whistle]

14. So, you think One World Government (OWG) is behind this?

[Dover]

19. More like regional world governance. I think the central banks

are behind it and whoever else is making the BIG decisions. That's not to suggest that all is hunky dorey and everyone is cooperating with 'the plan'. There are many issues and interests and resources and things yet to be sorted out that could all go very wrong. Not to mention a very angry populace who are suffering the brunt of these changes.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

11. I believe it is an organized effort to further concentrate wealth. Yes. I do. n/t

[whistle]

16. Financial oligarcy then...???

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

24. Corporatocracy,...on a global scale. There was a time it was only done to smaller countries,...

,...now, the corporacrats have their sights set on the whole world, including us, as in the U.S.

[Raksha]

35. As in "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, " but on a global scale?

I'm reading that book now, and through it all the thought keeps haunting me: "Are they trying this at home now?"

[Vilis Veritas]

32. I like your reasoning here...

Since the banks are the lien holders of the corporations that comprise the corporate oligarchy, it has a great deal of merit to use the phrase Financial Oligarchy...

No Fear.

[sam sarrha]

...

[whistle]

18. Utopia of Ayn Rand...Jesus, please shot me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand

[sam sarrha]

13. the NeoCons believe if they destroy civilization a Utopia will rise out of the ashes

[whistle]

17. The neocons have control of all the money now...uhmmm

...But who controls the neocons?

[pitohui]

15. when "selected" in 2000 bush said he would follow a soft dollar policy

yes, it is purposely engineered, and this is not a conspiracy theory, you can read it in the financial news of the day

it was supposed to improve the balance of trade for our rich masters and if it makes everything unaffordable to us, from the cheeses imported in europe, to travel, what do they care about that?

but snow and bush never made any secret of the intention to pursue what they themselves openly called the "soft dollar policy"

[whistle]

20. Soft as in Limburger cheese dollar, it smells like it also

<snip>
Is the U.S. Dollar from Texas — or New York?

By David Hale | Wednesday, June 04, 2003

For all the great skills of foreign exchange analysts, interpreting where the dollar is headed comes down to a simple rule of thumb. U.S. Treasury Secretaries from New York always produced rallies in the value of the U.S. dollar — while Treasury Secretaries hailing from Texas produced large devaluations. David Hale explores why that matters today.

Is the world’s most important currency really no more then a question of geographic bias? My answer is an emphatic yes. In fact, it’s not just an accident.

Populists vs. conservatives

The New York-Texas divide reflects ancient divisions in American history — extending back to the gold standard era of the late 19th century.

When George W. Bush became president in 2001, it was unclear if he would align himself with the Texas or New York tradition in exchange rate policy. <MORE>

http://www.theglobalist.com/dbweb/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=3235

In that period, the western states always supported populist candidates who opposed the gold standard. And they favored dollar devaluation to bolster commodity prices.

In contrast, the eastern states were dominated by financial conservatives who favored sound money — and protecting America’s link to the global capital market (read: London) through the gold standard.

[Jed Dilligan]

27. I don't want to sound all black helicopter,

but wasn't there a big sit-down of economic gurus around twenty years back, when they parceled out the tasks to the new global world, and we got agriculture and mining?

Does this ring any bells for anyone?

[whistle]

29. No, do you have a link? 20 years ago was 1987 the October Crash

...under Ronnie Reagan

[Jed Dilligan]

31. This was something more global

I can contact my brother whom I think is the source, but he's halfway around the world so it may take a couple of days.

[Greyhound]

41. Please do, I think I know what you're talking about, but can't quite put my

hands on it. IIRC, the world is consolidated into 4 "unions", European (Done), Asian, African, and American, and will be ruled over by the people that matter.

[Jed Dilligan]

63. Done. He may be off in Cornwall deflowering maidens,

or laying siege to a tower in Gascony, but he usually checks his e-mail at least once a week.

[JohnyCanuck]

30. Is a debt based financial system the only way to go?

As the video documentary "Money as Debt" explains it, money today is created mainly by banks as they issue loans to borrowers. E.g I go to bank X for a car loan and when my loan is approved, the bank makes a bookkeeping entry and basically conjures up the money for the loan out of thin air. They are allowed by banking regulations to issue loans for amounts many times greater than what they are required to place in deposit at the Federal Reserve. That brand new "created out of nothing" money then gets circulated when I take it to the car dealer to pay for my new car and the car dealer deposits the money into its own bank account or uses it to pay staff salaries, suppliers' bills etc. The critics claim this system of creating money through debt leads to cumulative increases in debt as there is a "chasing your tail" effect since more and more debt is necessary in the economy so that there is enough money in circulation to allow the interest on the debts to also get paid off. However, by increasing debt to increase the money supply, you also increase the interest owed on the debt, requiring more debt again to increase the money supply and so on, and so on, and so on.

Watch the documentary on Google Video here (47min) :
http://tinyurl.com/33cnlx

Just as a note of interest, this video explanation of money and how it works did get an endorsement from Elizabeth Kucinich.

Elizabeth J. Kucinich, monetary reform activist partner of
Congressman, and US Presidential aspirant, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

"I have worked for a long time looking into monetary reform and after 10 years, finally someone has produced a DVD entitled "Money as Debt". It is a fabulous fun yet powerful introduction to the issue of monetary reform. It's the best over view I have seen so far; the best by far. ESSENTIAL! Everyone should watch it!

The topic of DebtMoney is THE issue of our times. It forms the basis to every nation's areas of core material and spiritual concerns such as economic development, employment and environmental sustainability.

If only government officials, civil society organizations, environmental groups, unions and well meaning international development strategists trying to eradicate poverty really understood this topic... the world would be a much better place.

http://moneyasdebt.net

[whistle]

68. Not at all, it must be credit based at low interest, that is based on a known quantity

...of contractual work producing long term capital investments such as infrastructure development lasting over a 25 to 50 year term creating long term jobs and economic opportunities.

Debt means spending and consuming beyond ones means and invites parasitic usury type interest.

[pretzel4gore]

34. dinasaurs had pea brains...

Some dinasaurs were the size of a boxcar- a brontasaurus weighed 20 tons. But its brain was about the size of a baseball. The dinasaurs were ok as long as the weather stayed fairly warm, hothouse warm was the best. But weather changed, and meteors etc exacerbated it. Simply put, mr dinasaur was too goddam stupid to adapt to ice age and weather changes... our society was a dynamic society until about 30 years ago, when fascism, a political philosophy humanity found repulsive (see 1945) hid itself away in the woodwork and plotted how to exploit the dinasaur-like features of a modern, democratic, media driven social order. Way back in olden times, Aristotle argued democracy was a nice idear but...but it could never work simply because 'the mob' was like a pea brain dinasaur- too stupid to live, yet too powerful to tie to a plow. Despite this almost universal opinion among wiseguys over the centuries, representative democracy, which depended upon an electorate that knew IT was prone to acting as a mob and therefore would, via artifice, control its natural inclinations to act stupid (that's what all that magna carta, french revolution, american revolution, russian revolution, adam smith, george orwell maynard keynes etc stuff was about- figuring out how to organise 'the great dull beast' of society into a decent livable progressive entity that worked for everyone) using such devices as seperation of power, free press, educated majoritys etc. The fascist mentality, the ugly stupid tendency to exploit everthing that aint able to exploit it in its turn, had an easy job gaining control of the USA (the USA being the richest, most powerful repreesentative democracy, with the best chance to overcome the problems inherent in a crowded planet full of diverse interest each able to create total chaos, power being what it is- one atomic/biological/chemical bomb used by a deperate 3rd world minority could collapse civilization for everyone, including the USA) as anyone who watched life unfold since regan has seen. The economic problems which are showing up today, the collapse of the USA dollar, are the result of CRIMINALS allowed to operate freely since dubia dubia two (when we beat them like the family mule). Bush is an outlaw- and the criminal support system which put him into office, has to be recognised as criminals, treated like criminals, not the woebegone types who fill prisons etc, but the scented elegant punks who think humanity exists for them to stand on, to dance upon, to shit on, to piss on....

[charlie]

36. Dunno about engineering

But the way Republicans stuffed the treasury with chits with spectacular abandon for half a decade, I figured they were counting on massive inflation to settle those debts eventually.

[JCMach1]

37. Could banks be engineering a dollar crisis to get out from under

their bad real estate debts? Gambling that the Federal Gov. in the form of Freddie MAC will bail them out?

[Beerboy]

38. I don't have a problem with a currency backed by gold,

as a matter of fact, having some gold gives me more credibility than the government!:beer:

[Phrogman]

43. They engineered the virus thats going to crash the dollar, not the crash itself

the "sub-prime" Trojan.

[burythehatchet]

48. Two word answer: Think Enron

[DemReadingDU]

50. I have thought that the Bush administration

is running our government/country just like a giant Enron. That it could implode at any time, just like Enron. Scary.

:scared:


edit to rephrase

[burythehatchet]

55. Let me verify that notion. The Enron model is how the govt is being run.

You can be sure of that because the Corp media has never made an attempt to draw that analogy.

[Pale Blue Dot]

49. The collapse of the dollar and what is to follow

is the inevitable result of our personal and national economic policies of the last 20 years. Namely, people and governments spending much more than they have based on the belief that nothing could ever go wrong. Most people still don't see what's coming. No conspiracy theory is needed for this one.

[DemReadingDU]

51. Ernest Partridge: A Failed Experiment from 6/5/07

On January 20, 1981, in his first inaugural address, Ronald Reagan told the nation: "Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem."

Thus began a grand experiment: Release the American economy from the bonds of government regulation. Individual enterprise and initiative, the profit motive, the free market and open competition will usher in a new birth of freedom and a new era of unprecedented prosperity.
Thus began a grand experiment: Release the American economy from the bonds of government regulation. Individual enterprise and initiative, the profit motive, the free market and open competition will usher in a new birth of freedom and a new era of unprecedented prosperity.

“It’s morning in America.”

Twenty-six years later, what do we have? A dismantled and “outsourced” industrial base, an impoverished work force, a nine trillion dollar debt burden upon future generations, and a degradation of education and scientific research, and a captive media that deprives the public of essential news as it issues outright lies. In addition, the Bush administration, the current keeper of the covenant, has accomplished the trashing of the Constitution and its guaranteed Bill of Rights, a seemingly endless war with no prospect (or even definition) of victory, and the contempt of the peoples and governments of the civilized world.

The grand experiment has failed, and we are just beginning to realize the enormous costs of that failure.


full article...
http://www.crisispapers.org/essays7p/experiment.htm

[DemReadingDU]

58. oops, article dated 6/5/07. failed experiment from 1981

:eyes:

[Joanne98]

52. I don't think so. I think the other countries decided to bring us down.

After the fight in the UN about Iraq in 2003! They have been discretely re-arranging relationships ever since! Slowly "diversifying" their assets to include the Euro. Buying gold. Creating new trading blocks. It's the "What to do about Gulliver" syndrome!

IMO! The dollar won't collapse until it's role as the currency that oil and gold are traded in comes unraveled. The rest of the world knew they couldn't get that done directly so they have been "de-linking" the dollar in other ways. The biggest sign the dollar will collapse, is the huge spread developing between the dollar, oil and gold. Dollar going down, oil and gold going UP the other way. Other countries slowly buying euros to have a competing currency to switch to at the right moment.

The second the Euro is as strong as the dollar and enough people have diversified, everybody switches. That's the big FUCK YOU moment. Gold and oil will be sold in the Euro. That's all folks. No more superpower.

I don't think anybody would do this on purpose. Even Bush. Will he make money of it. U bet. Think Barricks gold ABX.

Everybody should have known this was going to happen. You can't put a belligerent, violent, lying, thieving, Satanic monster in charge of the country and expect the rest of the world to take it. The decision was made to take this country down in March 2003! It took a while but it's almost time to fall down and go boom.

I don't know it we can stop it. Maybe if we impeached Bush.. but the Democrats are too scared so I guess we'll just sink the boat to the bottom of the ocean. It's better to be the Titanic, than to get called unpatriotic! (sarcasm)

[nolabels]

72. Along with a lot of billionaires and multinational corporations

The thinking every question has one correct answer in this very complex world we live in really don't work very well anymore :shrug:

In ways it will be good when them dollars go down. Gold and oil are of mercantile economies and in the short term they might be good. The long run is more of a different venture, the idea of reinventing the wheel and how it runs is where it's really at. Mostly you don't need nations or really much else to do that.

[mmonk]

53. Originally yes. But like all manipilations, there are times

when control is lost and intentions backfire.

[Celebration]

54. We'd like to pay back our debts in devalued dollars

The Chinese don't want devalued dollars, so they peg their yuan to our dollar. Not only that, but notice that the Japanese yen value has gone down more than our dollar. So, the Chinese have "convinced" the Japanese to go along with that!! The carry trade lives. Machinations behind the scene keep the value of the yen low.

So this little trick isn't working out so well for us, is it? Our currency is being devalued against every currency but the ones that matter--our creditors.

Sheesh.

[Geek_Girl]

56. Yes

But like most things has more to do with a few greedy assholes thinking short term instead of the big picture long term.

[cascadiance]

57. Our falling dollar makes exposing CIA counterfeiting dollars that much more threatening...

... to both parties, which is one reason I'm wondering why we have a "bipartisan coverup" of the financial corruption that's going on with the likes of Thomas Kontogiannis (who's *secretly* guilty of money laundering), Brent Wilkes, Dusty Foggo, Duke Cunningham, etc. I'm sure with the dollar as weak as it is, the fear is now spread that exposing such activity (that is likely being used to fund CIA and other agency "black ops") would completely sink our economy, whereas blaming this counterfeitting scheme on North korea continues letting them operate unimpeded with more power and blaming it on North Korea to serve their "climate of fear" mongering...

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/46471/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/7/16352/20772

And of course with the newer money being printed to combat the "North Korean counterfeitters", that gives them an opporunity to put in RFI chips in all of our money to truly monitor what we are spending money on, etc.

[wildbilln864]

59. a link here.......

that relates to this IMO. Particularly part three. :hi:
link

[lovuian]

60. its so we can go to the Amero

canada Mexico and America

[spooked]

61. DON'T say AMERO on this Forum, or you'll be sent to the basement!

I posted a question about the Amero this morning in General Discussion and it was sent to the September 11 Forum!!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x175864

[Dover]

62. Yes, that's a reality. And property on the Tx/Mexico border is

going gangbusters as developers move in ahead of the change. The 'corridor' of change is being laid as we speak.

http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/PUBS/midcon2003/burrussus83.pdf

http://www.allengroup.com/Secondary.aspx?id=491

http://www.medc.org/medc_newsletter.php?vol=1&iss=1


TEXAS BORDER TOWN RANKS IN TOP TEN


McALLEN (money.cnn.com) – This month’s edition of
Business 2.0 ranks McAllen as the fifth best area in
the country to invest in a home, provided the
homeowner is patient.

Over the next five years, the median home price in
the McAllen area will appreciate an estimated 57
percent. This is based on growth in the local
economy, unemployment and current home price
statistics.

The area’s economic growth is currently more than
double the state average of nearly 3 percent.


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497

[earth mom]

65. Yes it is-make way for the North American Union & the Amero. & oh yeah, King George.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918&q=RUSSO&total=5530&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

[rucky]

70. If we move back to the gold standard...

then we'll know it was engineered, because there is not enough gold in the world to back all the existing debt floating around without sending the price through the roof. Good for investors. Tragic for the rest of us (not like what we have is any better now), but pick something that's more plentiful and more environmentally friendly.

I had a bizarre idea: Use kilowatt hours as our monetary standard. That way stockpiling energy would be like stockpiling money, and wasting energy would be like wasting money, and see how fast people seek out renewable alternatives.

[Buttercup McToots]

73. Bump up

Cuz, I'm interested...
:donut:

[DemReadingDU]

74. evening kick