Skinner can't rally the troops. It's hopeless.

[bleever]

There's just no way, even if he were to have any inkling to try. I'm guessing he doesn't.

Certainly there is tremendous frustration among Democrats over the failure of a slimly Democratic Congress to stop the war, get the troops home, prosecute those guilty of lying us into a war that's killed nearly a million innocent people, impeaching the figurehead of this monstrosity, and restoring the rule of law and the primacy of the Constitution.

GFD, as my brother likes to say: God Fucking Dammit.

Who is to blame? And who can we turn to?

There's a lot of conversation here on DU centered on the Democrats as the rightful focus of our blame. While there's plenty to be said on that point, any fixation on it misses the bigger picture of what they are actually able to do, in wartime, with a slim majority and a deeply entrenched (to the point of being a virtual suicide pact) opposition. That fixation, by missing the bigger picture, turns the passion behind the frustration into a liability for our side instead of an asset.

Who can we turn to? If the Democrats in Congress won't make everything right, and we're doomed, how can we go on? Who can tell us that it's worth carrying on under these conditions?

Can Skinner?

Hell no.

He's just a guy who, with his cohorts, created a place for us to meet and talk, and did it incredibly well. A town square where anyone can, like Jack London once did, a century ago in Oakland, take a turn on the overturned wooden box that soap came in, and let his or her voice ring out as loud or soft, as short or long, as reasoned or impassioned, as they want to. An online miracle, to me.

But if the people who show up don't bring the passion, the belief, the faith, and the plain old determination to never give up, it's an empty park. Maybe there are pigeons; usually there are pigeons.

But we are the ones. You. Me. That other guy. That lady over there.

So don't look to one person for answers when you're frustrated. Look to yourself, and when your belief has grown faint with a seemingly non-stop barrage of discouragement, remember to look to the people around you, and remember that faith means being able to believe, even when you yourself can't quite see.

Democracy means rule of the people. Every one of us is people. And that's where the authority, and power, and possibility lie.

That's what DU is about, to me. That's what America is about.


Be mad. Be frustrated. Be in charge. Because you are, unless you forget it.

[brentspeak]

1. A great post. Thank you for that. K and R

:applause:

:kick:

[BlooInBloo]

2. It's a common failing in Americans to look for authority figures when the going gets tough.

[TahitiNut]

87. That's called "authoritarianism."

It's not about autocrats - it's about people who want their Daddy.

:shrug:

... or Big Brother.

[Kajsa]

88. Hi Bloo!

I don't know that it's a failing,

Universally speaking, people seeking leadership has
been a human trait.

Look at Gandhi, MLK and Cesar Chavez.
They were all great leaders at a time when
their people were really hurting.

--Just saying--

:hi:

[cali]

3. Well done!

k&r

[AuntPatsy]

4. I wish people would realize just how much strength is held in numbers.

[Kajsa]

89. and how much power comes from the guidance

of good leadership.

Again, I'm going to reference Gandhi, MLK and Chavez.

Somehow that got completely lost in this thread.

:shrug:

[Holly_Hobby]

5. It's the "Savior Syndrome"

We have to save ourselves - use the tools of Democracy we have left - and our pocketbooks and wallets.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. Your second sentence is brilliant and complete unto itself.

"Certainly there is tremendous frustration among Democrats over the failure of a slimly Democratic Congress to stop the war, get the troops home, prosecute those guilty of lying us into a war that's killed nearly a million innocent people, impeaching the figurehead of this monstrosity, and restoring the rule of law and the primacy of the Constitution"

I salute you.:patriot:

[bleever]

26. That should have been

the hardest part to write, but it turned out to be the easiest.

Thanks. :patriot:

[truedelphi]

113. That encapsulation is extremely brilliant

I have people ask me all the time what I would say is impeachable and for me,
trying to come up with an answer usually overwhelms me. (I mean - there are so many Gawd damn choices...)

I am gonna commit your sentence to memory!

[BlueJazz]

7. I didn't get the idea of "Getting the Troops Charged up" To me, ....

....it's the same thing as telling a depressed Person to "Cheer up"

If the spirit is at a low point right now..(with the troops) ...Just wait a few weeks or even months...it will become strong again.

I..for one..don't understand this whole flurry of excitement about the coming elections...Christ, the damn things are about 14 months away.

A lot of stuff (and Candidates) can happen between now and then..

Also..It's not Skinner's Job to be our Mommie...
That's the way I feel about it.

[Glorfindel]

8. Anger, frustration, fury, rage....

Once upon a time these emotions led to actions that resulted in change, but that was before the internet. Now we post messages and feel that we have accomplished something. In extreme cases, we call upon our web-site moderators to rally the troops to ever greater efforts in posting messages. We're not necessarily less bold and brave than our ancestors; we've just been a bit distracted. Perhaps the day will come (sooner, one hopes, rather than later) when we'll forsake our keyboards and our monitors and actually do something.

[bleever]

13. Our keyboards and monitors are simple objects

like the soapboxes that people once turned over so that they could talk to a group of people and incite them to action with their words.

The internet has been an instrument in creating the largest worldwide peace marches (before a war!) in history. It's a tool that has created connections resulting in people creating new groups with concrete agendas, manifesting concrete results. The MoveOn ad controversy is the latest example.

I've been part of that, gratefully. I remember standing outside Barbara Boxer's office with a crowd of people, including Dolores Huerta, letting the senator know we wanted her to rise in support of a challenge to the 2004 election.

I know that many people here on DU aren't just talkers. They talk, and they do, and by talking, they get others to do.


That's a great picture.

[suffragette]

33. And I remember going to DC in January 2005

to join with other DUers and like-minded citizens to further encourage her to stand and challenge that day.

And I've stood in the rain and marched with DUers here in Seattle since then.
I still remember how confused, baffled and angry I felt after the 2004 election and how connected I felt when I stumbled on DU while searching for answers to something that made no sense to me. Here I found others who felt the same way and people who knew far more than I did at the time about what was going on. I was still enraged but read and learned and acted upon it.

I do, still, believe.

Some days that is harder than others, days when the frustration settles in thicker than a Seattle gray lid of clouds and it feels our nation will never again emerge from the gloom cast by this regime.

And on those days I find a post like your OP and remember why I stay here and keep trying.

Thanks bleever.

[bleever]

34. Thank you.

That response alone made the OP worth writing.

[suffragette]

36. You were spot on in that post

:hug:

[JDPriestly]

67. Not true. I work for change in many ways.

I table every week for Edwards. I talk to people, and I think I'm good at it. Yesterday I talked to several Republicans as well as Edwards supporters, Hillary supporters, Richardson supporters. I love them all. They are all human.
The Republicans talked about the fact that they don't have any good candidates to vote for. I joked with them and said,"Just wait. You'll vote for a Democrat."

I'm posting and working. I find a lot of energy here. This is my political vitamin pill. But it does not prevent me from working out. I also have a job, family, friends and belong to non-political organizations. So there. I bet a lot of DUers are just as active politically and humanly as I am.

I am utterly disgusted with the Democrats in Congress. They keep complaining about not being able to over-ride a veto. Excuse me, as one who raised a family on a low budget, you do as much as you can with what you have. They actually have a lot to work with -- and we are a big part of it. They are feeling sorry for themselves. Their problem is that they can't get up the courage to bring an impeachment action. If they would just do that, Bush would be put on the defensive instead of the Democrats. Impeachment proceedings are the key. And they are justified. Bush is the worst president, not just in terms of competency, but in all other terms as well. He has lied, he has sent his emissaries to Congress to lie, he has invaded a country in violation of international law. The grounds for impeachment have been stated very clearly in a dozen places. Congress needs to take up the task before it. Impeach Cheney. Impeach Bush. That is what is right for America. They have to gather the courage to do it.

[dickbearton]

82. It is good you work beyond the keyboard...

To many here, I fear do not. They take the easy way and post
on the computer; rather then getting out in the field and
doing the hard work that needs to be done, to take America
back. Until more get out and work, and actively campaign; the
numbers are not there. No matter how frustrated and/or mad
DUers get; until they get out in the "real world"
like you and at least talk to undecided  people, confront the
corrupt Republicans, and do the million other things required;
the numbers will not be there. 

[JDPriestly]

100. Why people don't work in campaigns: They are afraid of having to talk to people they disagree with.

They are afraid of the disapproval they think they will experience if they disagree with someone face to face.

In my work as a lawyer, I have to talk to people with whom I disagree all the time.
Here is my approach:

1) I introduce myself with a smile. I don't necessarily say my name, but who I identify who I am in terms of why I am where I am or why I am calling or approaching them. I might say, "I'm campaigning for ....."
2) When the person responds, he or she either waves me away which indicates to me it is not a good time for the person to talk, or he or she tells me his or her point of view or gives a short answer like "I'm for ....." If the person's answer is short, I ask him/her to state and explain his/her point of view. I say something like. "Why do you think that?"
3) I listen carefully to the person's answer. He/she will give me cues for what I should say next. The important thing at this point is to really listen. Your attitude should be that you want to understand what the person you are talking has accepted as the premises for his opinions, the facts he/she knows, what he/she believes and also what he/she feels. Listen to the whole person with interest not with disapproval or distaste.
4) Ask the person to clarify and explain anything you find confusing in their ideas.
Here is an example: The other day I was tabling for Edwards. A man came down and sat on a park bench near my table. I offered him a brochure, and he waved his hand "No." He sat there having his supper. After a while (and I don't remember what started the conversation) we began to talk. He asked me what I thought about immigration. I told him my view which is pretty middle of the road. Somehow the conversation veered to the surveillance law issue. He said he favors the surveillance law because it is only being used on terrorists and it is only being used properly. I let him finish everything he had to say and then I asked him the simple question, "How do you know how the surveillance is being done?" He could not answer. Then I explained to him that I do not think it is necessary to have surveillance without the FISA court's review. I explained to him that the fact that Bush does not want FISA court review suggests to me that the surveillance is not limited to terrorists and is not being done properly. I was not confrontational. I just gave him food for thought. I will be there every week. He will see me and think of our conversation. It may be that he will never change his mind. But there is a small chance that I have planted a seed in his mind. We discussed a number of other issues. I was pretty forceful in talking about habeas corpus. I suspect he did not know what I was talking about. But he was polite, and if he hears someone else talk about it, he will listen. Politeness is usually returned with politeness.

5) The goal is to establish a calm, respectful conversation. Even if the other person is angry, you can disarm the anger by being quiet, having a friendly smile (to my advantage, I am small and older and do not pose a physical threat), knowing that you are probably not going to change another person's mind the first time you talk to him or her. Everyone wants approval. Everyone wants to be heard. The person you are talking to deserves some approval just for being willing to discuss something political. If I want to be heard, the least I can do is listen to the other person.

I have had a great many wonderful experiences talking to people about politics. It can be very rewarding. But people are afraid to do it because they are afraid of being assaulted. In my experience, there is no reason for that. Not if you give each person, whether they agree with you or not the same respect you want from them.

So, I don't judge people harshly just because they are not out there and active. Just exchanging ideas on DU is a good start. Sooner or later an opportunity to act or to talk to someone will arise. If someone has been reading and participating on DU, he/she will be ready for the challenge of talking about politics. Being knowledgeable is a prerequisite for being active. I hope I can set an example regarding how to talk to people about things they do not want to hear.

And by the way, when I am advocating in my work, I can be very strong and confrontational. It is a matter of knowing what is appropriate.

[bleever]

111. Wow, that was great.

Thank you so much.

[yellerpup]

84. Yeah, I think you've just given us the key.

We Dems have been playing defense too long. It's time to get offensive with those impeachments they've been daring us to try. Good point.

[Nevernose]

9. DU's been through way worse than one asshole vote

Like a thousand asshole votes, and a primary (and now 1 and 1/2 primaries), and 9/11, and a million other things just as upsetting.

The point is that -- no matter how pissed off we are at each other -- most of us are all still Democrats talking earnestly with each other. And that's the whole point.

Skinner's job has never been to settle arguments; his job has been to provide us a place where we could hash out our differences with out some asshat ranting about Bill Clinton's Eviltude, and to give us a forum for taking this country back.

Also, to whomever's reading this: Skinner, EarlG, and Elad don't owe Jack Shit to anybody.

[robinlynne]

18. Yes, but the terrible votes are accumulating, and the anger is growing, especially since

we can see that it is not just the republicans who are ruining our country. Up until this year, we fought to get our people in power. They are in, and it is more of the same.

[Nevernose]

32. It is Democraticunderground, not Liberalunderground

I've always known this. DU was a factor, in fact, in convincing me to switch parties after the 2001 elections to the Green party.

I've also always realized that "our" people aren't in power. While on DU I'm considered a moderate at best, and a Freeper infiltrator at worst, most of my Real Life friends consider me to be slightly to the left of Marx :).

You are right on the most important part, though: the anger is growing.

[robinlynne]

35. I have a problem with switchig over to the green party, but the green party

stood up in ohio after the 2004 election, and I am absolutely ashamed that Kerry didn't give them those thousands of dollars WE sweated to put together for the recount. Until last month I still thought we would count those votes. rambling, sorry, i'm tired. and angry.

[OzarkDem]

10. To be fair, its not Skinner's job

and we shouldn't place that burden on him. Its the job of our party's leaders to rally us.

It would sure be nice to hear from Gov. Dean, though.

[TygrBright]

11. Yes. Exactly. Bingo. Right on. What you said. Thank you! n/t

[grasswire]

12. ....and go hassle a Republican.

They are the ones who are jamming up Congress.

They are the ones who are allowing * to perpetuate his fantasy in Mesopotamia.

They are the ones refusing to support the troops.

They are the ones denying Americans their own tax money for infrastructure, for health care, for so many needs.

Go after a Republican.

With just a little movement from them, we will have the votes to implement our needs and desires.

[bleever]

23. Emily

was a flack who worked for Colin Powell (although she probably was placed by the Bushies to keep a leash on Powell), who thought that when Powell was "off message" when on TV, she could grab the camera and turn it away, and end the interview.

The current reign of witches is made up of a legion of minions like her, operating outside the law, and outside the consensus reality that American democracy has built over more than 200 years.

Go after the system of minions. Go after the "witches" (no offense intended to good witches). Don't attack your leaders and sow despair over the fact that we are still struggling.

Thank you, grasswire.

[yellerpup]

85. Excellent tactic, grasswire.

We need to be smarter about strategy. So far, no matter what the topic they've been able to flip it so that they call the tune. Go hassle a Republican! There's a project.

[FogerRox]

14. I am the leader that I have been waiting for

[bleever]

25. I've been waiting for you too.

Or, as the Hopi Elders said:

The Hopi Elders Speak

We Are the Ones
We've Been Waiting For

You have been telling the people that this is the Eleventh Hour.

Now you must go back and tell the people that this is The Hour.

And there are things to be considered:

Where are you living?

What are you doing?

What are your relationships?

Are you in right relation?

Where is your water?

Know your garden.

It is time to speak your Truth.

Create your community. Be good to each other. And do not look outside yourself for the leader.

This could be a good time!

There is a river flowing now very fast. It is so great and swift that there are those who will be afraid. They will try to hold on to the shore. They will feel they are being torn apart, and they will suffer greatly.

Know the river has its destination. The elders say we must let go of the shore, push off into the middle of the river, keep our eyes open, and our heads above the water. See who is in there with you and celebrate.

At this time in history, we are to take nothing personally. Least of all, ourselves. For the moment that we do, our spiritual growth and journey comes to a halt.

The time of the lone wolf is over. Gather yourselves!

Banish the word struggle from your attitude and your vocabulary.

All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration.

We are the ones we've been waiting for.

—The Elders Oraibi
Arizona Hopi Nation

http://netmar.com/~maat/messages/oct28/hopi.htm

[autorank]

50. I am the follower that was late;)

Great seeing you bud...how about that Bleevr. Quite a statement.

[FogerRox]

65. A pleasure, though the Disturbed tee shirt was strange

BLeever is spot on.

[robinlynne]

15. We have to find a way to get through to our Dem leaders. They need to change

their tactics urgently!

[f the letter]

16. Or listen to the few leaders with anything to say

For all my skepticism of this party there are still a few critters in congress speaking out.




Well okay, maybe just one. But that's a start.

[robinlynne]

17. Yes there are some GREAT leaders. Boxer, Conyers. absolutely. But I want all

dems to be like them, or at least half as good as they are.

[KAZ]

24. I agree. A little cash to MoveOn wouldn't hurt. And keep the

blogs aflame! It makes a difference.

[Old and In the Way]

37. I gave them $25.00 tonight.

Hope they take in $100MM from 4MM people....that would be the very best return volley that we could make. I can understand why the Republicans would condemn an obviously liberal/progressive group who has lots of Democratic voters in its ranks. But I can't understand why any Democrat would join in on this political theater. Too many Democrats still don't get it...

[KAZ]

38. You know what, I think I'm going to join you in that donation thing.

It's been awhile. I must admit, I'm still not sure how this episode of the "theater" will turn out. Getting some words from his boss (not shrub) in print might do some good. It seems that "theater" is all that works anymore.

[bleever]

39. I donated

too. I've been disconnected from MoveOn's agenda for a while, but when lines are drawn between bold political speech and those who would say it has no place, I am firmly on their side.

Tonight I heard people from Keith Olbermann to Joan Walsh to Dan Abrams on MSNBC call out Bush for putting Petraeus up as the political figurehead, and then condemn those who attacked him politically.

This kind of divisive politics is becoming (if I may say so) effete.

We can stand up against it, and overturn this inherently anti-democratic neocon coup. I believe the momentum is on the side of those who believe in the power of the individual voice.

[grasswire]

27. How about changing your own tactics?

If you aren't hassling a Republican, you aren't doing the most effective task possible.

It is Republicans who are keeping us from stopping the war.

It is Republicans who are denying the expressed will of the American people.

So if WE change OUR tactics and go after Republicans, we will get our way if we can move just a few of them to vote with Dems.

Just do it.

[robinlynne]

40. That used to be true. Not now. It is our own people. It started with the 2004

election, and got progressively worse. There is a tremendous split in our party. Many of them are working for the republican goals. clearly. Sooner or later you will become aware of this unfortunate situation.

[bleever]

43. You've been fighting the good fight,

for a long time now, robinlynne, and you're right about the split in our party.

I think you and grasswire both think we need to be in charge of our party, and to do what we need to in order to make that happen.

One of my points is that by engaging in a political autoimmune disease, where we attack the parts of ourselves that we think are making us sick, we make the whole body sicker, and that's not a path to health and power.

Power comes from claiming a place with leadership, health, and forging a path to what should be.

We can do it. It's our heritage.

:thumbsup:

[grasswire]

45. Some of them are working for third parties.

Right here on DU. They wish to destroy the Dem vote.

[FogerRox]

66. yeah but, Bleevers point is that we should be running for office

If Congressional DEMS dont lead. replace them with those who do lead.

[Botany]

19. Did I ever tell you that you are my Fav?

Nice Job!

[Richard Steele]

20. K&R

[EFerrari]

21. That's King Arthur again.

:rofl:

[bleever]

28. "Listen.

"Strange women lyin’ in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

--Dennis, raker of muck, in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[EFerrari]

29. LOL!

That's so great. :toast:

[AuntPatsy]

31. thank you for the smile.

[BelgianMadCow]

94. *wide smile¨*

raker of muck mmmm...could do that yes...

[KAZ]

22. Wow! I like the way you write! K&R from me. n/t

[losthills]

30. The Republican Party is crumbling.

We don't need to be like them.

We are what we are, and it has stood the test of time.

Democrats are not going to elect the next president. Giuliani or Romney will only get one term, though.

Democrats should start thinking about the next election. That one we will probably win, if we are smart enough to exile Hilary and Obama to the island of Elba.....

[bleever]

41. I agree that the Republican Party is crumbling.

The image of fiscal conservatism and conservative values built over the years is not only collapsing under its own weight like any cardboard skyscraper wood, it's also been hollowed out by the neocon termites.

But Democrats can and will win the next presidential election. Exiling members of our own party, including those who might be corporatists, or not as progressive as we want, isn't part of an agenda to unite people who want to defeat what the Republican Party has furthered in the last five Republican presidencies.

[ClassWarrior]

42. For a screwy kid who's always getting me hollered at and stuff...

...sometimes you make me very, very proud.

Thanks for being there, Bro. You're an inspiration.

Never Give Up.

[bleever]

44. A true American

knows that if he gives up, his mom and dad might clobber him.

Or at least, make him feel like he's been clobbered, onaccounta letting them down.

Heck, a guy might feel like he'd clobbered himself, after he had a chance to think about it.



NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

46. You're forgettin' about...

...the kind of clobbering I could give a guy too, if a guy was to give up.

:patriot:

NGU.

[gateley]

47. K&R nt

[bridgit]

48. ah geez...

:eyes:

[autorank]

49. Amen K*R It's all about us versus big money ... no saviors here, ther, or anywhere.

"So don't look to one person for answers when you're frustrated. Look to yourself, and when your belief has grown faint with a seemingly non-stop barrage of discouragement, remember to look to the people around you, and remember that faith means being able to believe, even when you yourself can't quite see."

Great, great point!!!

[DeepModem Mom]

51. Beautiful, Bleeve. nt

[hfojvt]

52. unfortunately, we are feeding our discouragement with our rants.

Your title, for example - "it's hopeless"

It is also quite common for people to get inspiration from others, including leaders. Eugene Debs got almost a million votes as a socialist candidate. The socialist party has not come close to that since, even as our population grows.

Too many of us believe that Democracy is dead. Has been dead for a long time. Too much of it depends on money, a corrupt media spreading misinformation to an ignorant and apathetic public.

It should be our job here to inform people who come to this website and in whatever other venues we can reach - letters, other websites, etc. Instead their seems to be an endemic infection of despair, discouragement, anger, frustration, cynicism, hatred, fear, and paranoia which we share with each other. It's like a Cassandra convention to the tenth power.

We could use alot more hope, encouragement, compassion, equanimity, optimism, love, courage and faith. The kind of faith that believes that good things are possible, that there's nothing we cannot do. That truth, love and justice WILL prevail.

[progressoid]

53. "Error: You've already recommended that thread."

Well I tried.

[texpatriot2004]

54. Well said Bleever nm

[Patsy Stone]

55. I believe

this is a lovely thing to wake up to.

K&R :thumbsup:

[bleever]

56. I'd like to thank the people who read the post,

and not just the title.

Good Morning, DU!

[ClassWarrior]

57. There's a post after the title?

:freak:

NGU.

[intheflow]

58. Right on, bleever.

Working on race issues throughout the country post-September 11, I've had this same discussion. "Where is our next MLK?" the people moan. "Who will lead us?"

The answer is, no one. No one will lead us. Nor should we wait for someone to lead us. We are not sheep, WE are the leaders we've been waiting for. Looking to Skinner as some kind of savior strikes me as Group Think as dangerous as those who blindly follow Bush and Cheney. Sure, following Skinner is good, not evil, like following this administration. But it's still following. When we wait for a leader, we create a void in leadership ourselves--and voids will be filled. If we don't fill the void, who will? Quite possibly someone who doesn't share our values.

[bleever]

60. "If we don't fill the void, who will? Quite possibly someone who doesn't share our values."

Perfect.

[JerseygirlCT]

59. Well said. nt

[ladywnch]

61. well said! and I agree although I do find myself losing hope a lot

these days. I needed this. thank you.

there is a previous post about the republican party crumbling. I believe it is, but remember a wounded/dying animal is more dangerous than a healthy one. As they become more desperate we need to expect more extreme and desperate tactics and be ready to pounce on them. Our numbers are growing....their's are falling.

Its gonna get ugly real faster.....uglier than ever before and we can't turn on one another in frustration or simply quit.

thanks again, bleever.

[Kazak]

62. JHC!

Jesus Harold Christ!

[A wise Man]

63. I don't know what it will take

...but it seems to me rallying from the thousands to millions ain't working, we are just being ignored. I will go out on the limb and say, "ITS TIME FOR THE COUNTRY TO REVOLT AND DEMAND JUSTICE FROM CONGRESS TO THE WHITHOUSE". And I don't mean by speeches!!!

[DS1]

64. Whatever he said would be ripped to shit by 50% of the place anyway

I do not fault him for not even bothering. If he bothers, I'd recommend against it.

Skinner's response would go down like the last Seinfeld, or Sopranos.

[hiphopnation]

68. k&r

well spoken

[Time for change]

69. Very nicely put into perspective

This is indeed a tremendously frustrating situation we find ourselves in. But we do need to be reminded that we can make things worse by getting our expectations too high. Life doesn't often go the way we would like it to. The key is to keep on trying to make things better, while not getting so upset about the way things are that we can't function properly.

[AntiFascist]

70. Why does Skinner need to rally the troops?

MoveOn, with the help of the pResident, is doing a great job.

[mod mom]

71. I always come back to "WHY DIDN'T THEY FUCKING FIGHT FOR THEIR VOTES IN '04"

This is the issue that haunts me during those angry periods of sleeplessness. I know it's a republican agenda that is destroying this country, but my own party didn't stand with Conyers, Boxers et al to attempt to stop the seating of the Ohio electorate. And now that they've been in power since '06 why haven't they exposed the fucking voting machines. Corporate media is silent, but some stories have come out , but without the outrage of the entire party it will be business as usual. The courts are stacked with political judges who won't allow contested elections to come to court-so what then?

There are many days I am pissed that I am not a sheeple-mindlessly enjoying life while our democracy crumbles.

I was out in the street, but my party disserted me and all the others who stood and stand defiant despite the lack of habeas corpus.

I'm angry, I'm frustrated, and I'm fearful that the masses are too blind and/or apathetic to do anything about it.

[AverageJoe]

72. To play devil's advocate

It seems to me the issue is not whether or not Skinner can rally the folks here at DU. Isn't there a policy that we can't post anything in support of a non-Democrat who is running against a member of the party? That was the issue that I took from the post that started all of this.

I admit that I read that post only once, and pretty quickly, but the poster--and I'm sorry, I don't remember who it was--seemed to be frustrated with the DU rule that we can't argue for more progressive candidates who are trying to unseat a Democrat who has failed to live up to our hopes or expectations.

If that was the original poster's frustration, I, a life-long yellow dog Democrat, share it.

[intheflow]

73. Kicking

This post needs more than the 38 recs it has now, imo. :kick:

[bleever]

74. Maybe it wasn't the best title for an anti-despair thread.

Thanks for the kick.

[ClassWarrior]

75. You could change it to...

..."Don't Taze Me Bro."

:shrug:

Could work.

NGU.

[bleever]

79. Shoot, I'm thinking of getting

that tattooed on my arm.

:hi:

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

104. Shoot, I'm thinking of changing...

...my motto to that.

:hi:

DTMB.

[bleever]

108. .

DTMB.

:thumbsup:

(Assuming I'm untased, and can raise my thumb.)

[ClassWarrior]

112. I Believe...

...you can raise your thumb! Raise your thumb, bleev! Raise your thumb! :thumbsup:

DTMB. +

NGU.

[blondeatlast]

76. Beautifully put.

Thank you.

[stlsaxman]

77. I'm glad i read the whole post before i wrote a reply...

what i had written only moments ago wasn't pretty.

But having re-read your OP more thoroughly i must say-

"well done and thank you!"

[bleever]

78. Thank you.

Next time I'll be careful, in times of strife, about how I title a piece.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

80. but you know - it's thank heaven for the internet and places like DU

can you imagine life without?

[bleever]

90. Biggus

Draggus.

[dennis00]

81. Chicago, Dem Convention 1968

I was in Grant Park that summer. Got chased around Chicago by mayor Daley's cops. I would like to see a tent city in the park across from the White House or a crowd waiting for a train that never comes in the Amtrak station in DC. It's up to us to start the new Revolution.

[yellerpup]

83. Sanity is spoken.

Thank you for putting the responsibility where it belongs.

[Olney Blue]

86. bleever, you are right

K/R

[idgiehkt]

91. I think people give this

internet debating a tad too much significance. I don't see how it's contributing much to the political process. If anything, it's more of a distraction. So I don't understand what people think the admin here can do, except the stuff they usually do, make the site run, post stuff every once in a while, etc. Sometimes this feels like bizarro world to me, the amount of weight people give debating on the internet.

[Evoman]

99. No doubt.

If I mentioned the words "Democratic Underground" to people I knew, 99 percent or more of them would have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.

[HughMoran]

92. that's correct

Blaming others will not solve anything.

[bleever]

96. Especially not

blaming each other.

I wish Nancy Pelosi could lift all three branches of government over her head and shake them so that we ended the war and undid all the horrors of the last six and a half years, but that's asking too much.

Attacking her because her best efforts aren't enough is attacking ourselves. We need to be more resolved in failure than we are in success.

:thumbsup:

[Kurovski]

93. K&R. (nt)

[bleever]

95. Thank you. And,

nt? You?

:hi:

[Kurovski]

98. Busy, busy, busy.

shouldn't be here at all. :spank:

:hi:

[Kurovski]

109. Just to clarify...

I'm spanking myself.

Ignore the double entendre, the English language has a mind of its own and it's a terribly dirty mind.

Bad English language :spank: bad!

[Evoman]

97. Skinner, with his broad shoulders and barrel chest, should be able to carry us all!

Like Atlas carries the planet, so must skinner accept the sacred duty of carrying the downtrodden DUERs. The man is pratically Jesus Christ.

hehe

[Kurovski]

102. I'd settle for him cleaning out my gutters.

But then, that too is unreasonable.

[bleever]

101. Because DUers are dynamite,

I nominate all of us for the Nobel Prize.

[Patsy Stone]

103. Good idea!

Then Skinner could hire someone to darn his socks.

[bleever]

105. I say, damn Skinner's socks!

I'm fed up with the milquetoast darning of things like the war, and the socks.

[wildbilln864]

106. We can turn to Kucinich......

or Edwards in '08! Kucinich has actually introduced a bill to impeach but do you ever hear much about it? Edwards would also end the insanity IMHO!

[bleever]

107. These are the kind of longshots

that are like us.

America is a longshot. There's no reason to give up when the odds seem to be against you.

Most winners had the odds against them at some point.

Investing in the the power of our real values, regardless of whether they characterize front-runners or longshots, is betting on victory.

Otherwise, people are hedging their bets, hoping to be able to break to the winning side once they know what it is.

If you are a jockey for the middle, you might win.

But if you are a defender of what you believe in, and you win, it will actually be of lasting value, and strengthen the democracy that is the hope of humanity that we all aspire it to be.

[SoCalDem]

110. It's not his job. He gives us the "paper & pencils"

what we do with them is our business. He's not our "teacher" or "spirit guide"..

As we have grown, we have attracted lots of disruptors, and more people with more ideas. We just cannot like all of the new ideas.. It's just a fact of life..

Comment on the threads you like, and ignore the others.. That's the sanest way to handle DU :)