Student tasered at Kerry speech

[Bonobo]

MODS: I changed the thread title to a non flamebaity one. I hope this is ok. I think it is a very important subject to discuss because this really is about who we are as a country. Thanks for your indulgence.

I strongly believe that if the same thing had happened at a speech in Israel, the ME, or Venezuela, Cuba, etc. you would ALL decry the fascistic tactics of the police.

Imagine everyone in that room in a middle eastern robe or burka or whatever and then imagine a young student addressing the Mullahs or something and arguing at them about something. Now imagine the Mullah or the Presidente or whatever's thugs come up and beat the kid down with rattan sticks or clubs or something.

In the above case, you would ALL KNOW what you were looking at. You would know it was wrong. You would know it was oppression, fascism. Why can you not see it here?

Cognitive dissonance or, or, or something :(

[DURHAM D]

1. The guy was a total ass and tried to take over the event.

He needed to be removed and he was. End of story.

[Bonobo]

4. Thanks for the confirmation that I am right.

[DURHAM D]

9. Your whole setup is based on many kind assumptions.

What if you find out the guy is a freeper and paid by his friends to pull this stunt? What if you find out he jumped the que and pushed aside other students? What if he wasn't really tasered but faked that he was being tasered - he never stopped talking.

Why were the police already watching him and standing right behind him? It had clearly drawn police attention before he got to the mic. To me it seemed like he went there to get attention and arrested.

When the police first tried to stop him the students cheered the police.

The guy was an ass and acted like a 5 year old.

[Bonobo]

14. "Faked that he was being tasered'!?

:wow:
:wtf:

None of your sentences seem connected by the way, so I am not sure which point you are trying to make.

[DURHAM D]

17. Questions to you Bono? eom

[liberaldemocrat7]

104. I saw the video. The man looked like a liberal asking why Kerry conceded

He also asked Kerry about reading Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast. I did not see a freepah asking questions here, unless he appeared a plant made to look like a liberal disruptor. I believe the police went over the line here with the taser.

At the very most the Florida police could have lifted him up and carried him out hands and feet. Tasering in this situation appears uncalled for.

Code Pink asked question in congress this past week and they got removed much more civilly.

I did not see a freepah at this event.

[mark414]

29. so being boorish and rude now makes one a dangerous criminal?

the police overreacted from the very beginning. disgusting how people will excuse this brutality.

[DURHAM D]

36. How long should they have allowed his over wrought

play acting to go on?

[mark414]

43. they started to arrest him instantly!

did you watch the video? they didn't try to peacefully and appropriately escort him out, the first thing they did was throw his hands behind his back. completely and totally unnecessary. a professor, hell a teacher's assistant could have directed him away from the mic and out of the building.

don't defend it, because they'd do the same thing to you in an instant.

[DURHAM D]

50. I have watched two videos - not sure which one you watched.

I would never act like that guy unless it was my goal to be arrested.

And Mark - don't tell me what to defend and not defend. If you feel the need to be an Authoritarian there is another site way better suited to your personality type.

[mark414]

63. you're defending police brutality and overreaction

and i'm the authoritarian?

paging mr. orwell....

[DURHAM D]

78. You tell me what to do and then try to change the subject.

Does that work with your Mommy?

[Kingshakabobo]

110. I guess you missed the two instances where he refuses to step away from the mic...

.......when asked. Watch it again @ :40 and 1:16. He was asked twice to step away. On the third incident he turns away and resists the cop.......prior to the cop moving to get a grip on him. It's not clear they were going to even arrest him on the third incident because you lose focus for a second but it's clear he became somewhat more animated while pulling away - that's when the cop tries to get his hands behind his back.

He had three chances to be escorted. I don't know what video YOU watched.

[wisteria]

140. No, but possibly being dangerous does.

This guy was out of line. He was there to create a disturbance. He was violating everyone else's right to a peaceful gathering. Didn't you here the students clapping when they shut off his mic and tried to haul him off?

[mark414]

147. if i called the cops so they could arrest and taser someone

every time my right to a peaceful gathering was disturbed...there's a lot of loud assholes in this world, that doesn't mean it's okay to use brute force, especially when he's already pinned down by 4 or 5 cops.

tasers are supposed to be an alternative to guns, in case a person is attempting to or succeeding in causing harm to someone or an officer. what they're not for is punishment because someone is being too loud.

[Tesha]

154. It's okay; it's not the posters' free speech rights being violated so...

It's okay; it's not the posters' free speech rights being
violated so like so many here at DU, they don't give a
shit.

They'll eventually be educated. Hopefully, it won't be
too painful or legally costly for them.

Tesha

[Bassic]

157. Agreed. Taser use is accepted so readily

that it fucking scares me.

[Imagevision]

54. The guy was a total ass? - and what? you were there...?

[Imagevision]

57. The guy was a total ass, so ...taser him or her???

[Renew Deal]

180. So now the cops can tase people for being impolite?

Is that a new law?

[sandnsea]

2. the tasering was out of line, everybody agrees

blaming it on Kerry and pretending he participated is what is objected to.

[Bonobo]

5. That's not what I saw on that thread. Already we have someone who thinks it was ok.

[sandnsea]

8. removal isn't necessarily tasering

You didn't ask if he agreed with tasering after the individual was already removed. I have yet to see someone agree with the tasering.

Removing disruptive people from events, if it had been a freeper you'd have expected the cops to remove them.

[Imagevision]

62. duh! rumor has it that quite a few people ended DOA after being tasered last year...!

[LittleClarkie]

16. Taking the guy away, yes. But not the tasering necessarily.

And the person you're referring to didn't say he approved of the tasering. He approved of the removal. Don't put words in his mouth.

[TheUniverse]

31. What did that guy say to require being taken away?

Do we want to take everyone away who asks politicians tough maybe. Maybe all politicians should have phony town meetings with pre selected people like Bush does.

[LittleClarkie]

37. He didn't come there to ask a question. He came to rant, it seems

It wasn't a rant forum.

As yourself why the people who were there first hand applauded when he was taken away. They saw everything in context.

[TheUniverse]

41. He didnt seem unreasonable.

He was perfectly reaonable until the police carried him away. Since when do police get the right to tazer you for "ranting?"

[LittleClarkie]

42. Most people do not agree with the tasering

The tasering was over the top. But some people do agree that the guy was being disruptive and needed to be removed. Some see it differently than you. Some see a spastic, angry and paranoid person.

Just the fact that he brought up the Skull and Bones bullshit makes me wonder about his thought processes. That's just stupid conspiracy bullshit in my eyes.

[TheUniverse]

46. Yes he was being disruptive.

And I wish more people would be disruptive towards politicians. Obviously what happened was the cops didn't like what he was saying so they removed him. He wasn't violent or anything, but was just asking some questions that shouldn't be asked (in the cops opinion). When did our country get to the point when we cheer people getting removed from asking tough questions to politicians?

[DURHAM D]

55. Do you really think the cops have ever heard of Skull and Bones?

[TheUniverse]

58. There was more to it than that.

He asked a bunch of tough questions like how he conceded the election so early. I do not see how asking those questions require being removed by force and being tazered.

[DURHAM D]

90. One part that seems to have escaped you -

Kerry was answering the questions and he did not asked to have the guy removed.

His removal was based on something else altogether - please note the cops already standing right behind the disrupter.

[Bonobo]

47. Nervous laughter and applauding is what I saw.

The kind of nervous laughter you make when you see something horrible happening to someone else and breathe an inner sigh of relief that is isn't you.

Yup.

[timtom]

161. I firmly believe

that if it had been Dennis Kucinich on the stage, he would have come down and tried to intercede on the student's behalf. Kerry just standing there and THEN, as the student was being tasered, answering the student's question(?!) was, perhaps, more shocking to me than the actions of the police (which were totally predictable).

[sandnsea]

177. well that isn't what happened

I don't even know how you could have come to that conclusion. Says more about you than him.

[timtom]

178. What in God's name

is that supposed to mean?

What, exactly, does that show more about me than him? Who is "him"? Kerry? The student?

And were you intending to be snarky? Or am I misinterpreting something?

[sandnsea]

182. what you choose to believe

It's thoroughly disgusting the way people will distort reality to nurse their grudges. The kid was creating a major disturbance, didn't want answers, was vulgar, combative - and you blame Kerry.

[timtom]

185. Too bad you missed Randi Rhodes today.

She had quite a lot to say about this issue.

"..and you blame Kerry."

There are 3 major elements to this scenario:

1) Kid being annoying while asking valid questions.

2) Police pushing the issue to one of complete . I'll bet if Kerry had answered the questions, or excused himself (he was supposedly short of time), the whole affair would have blown over.

3) Kerry demonstrated a total lack of leadership when a situation dropped in his lap.

And I am not alone in this "distortion" of reality.

i.e. - "free speech" = taser

[Mass]

3. I would hope that everybody agrees with you on that!\nt

[Sanctified]

6. So people with brown skin are Fascists?

This stuff happens in England, France, Italy and the US but you could only name countries with brown people, hmmmm interesting.

[Bonobo]

15. WHAAAAAAT!? I was trying to get OTHERS to use their imagination.

You are being odd and obtuse.

[parasim]

39. The point was, for me, that everybody would be all up in arms...

if it happened in one of the countries mentioned in the OP, but when it happens in the "white" countries, nobody says anything about it.

Haul the guy outta there! Take him down! Taser that sumbitch! People cheered when the cops swooped in!

I saw the video. I read the comments from people that where there. The guy asked questions of a politician about his seemingly dumb actions (in conceding to the election) and his affliations with a well-known secret organization (masquerading as a simple frat-boy club) and he's fucking hauled out of there and tasered.

You know, if both Bush and Kerry would just be straight forward when questioned about the stupid frat they were both in while at Yale, we wouldn't have people imagining secret organizations looking to control the masses (or whatever they come up with). But no, they have to remain childish and refuse to answer simply questions about it.

I mean, watch the video. As soon as he asks about the fricking skull and bones, the cops are signalling each other, looking around and then decide to grab the guy.

No, it's this country that is truly fucked up.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. Well, it has happened at RW events for years. Not to say Tasering is an appropriate answer,

when quickly hustling the individual away is the best answer....you know the Zen Roadhouse way. :-)

Coming here and saying that Sen. Kerry represents fascism is disruptive, in spite of your toning down of the title. "Where we are as a country" is exactly where the PNAC William Kristol Bush Empire was hoping we'd be.

Well, at least you don't try to say "We" all think a certain way...you certainly distance yourself from those to whom you address this OP.

MKJ

[OzarkDem]

11. Its about the student, not Kerry

Do we have a hard time criticizing police brutality when it happens in our own country? From the appearance of the previous thread, it seems some people do.

[Bonobo]

20. But you know what? It is also about Kerry. Here is why I think so.

It IS fair and reasonable to hold Kerry to a higher standard for leadership because that is EXACTLY what he is. A leader. One who asks for the trust of tens of millions of people. He asks us to trust his judgment, but he and his character must be judged first, by us, to be worthy of that trust.

So Kerry must be more under the microscope. And in this case, he watched a student brutalized and subjected to cruel levels of pain as a means of demanding compliance, not as self-defense. Do you all understand the difference? Using a taser as a non-lethal form of self-defense may be laudable, but when you sue it to administer pain as a means of gaining compliance, you have gone from police to torturer in my opinion (and I am right by the way).

I am not a leader. I am a normal person who does not ask for the blind trust of others. And yet, I tell you I would NOT have stood there calmly. I would have shouted and screamed at the least. I would have wanted to see Kerry sickened by what he saw. He was not. That is not an editorial comment. It is not claiming that Kerry is a fascist. It is what it is. It is the truth...as I saw it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

85. Well, if it's the truth as you saw it, what else is there to say?

MKJ

[tblue37]

96. The Taser is NOT a nonlethal weapon. It is a LESS lethal weapon.

Many people die after being tasered--some of them young. There is no way for a cop to be sure that the person he is about to Taser won't die from it. Therefore, the Taser should not be used, as it so often is (especially in Florida!), as a form of extrajudicial punishment by cops when someone annoys them by being "uppity."

Cops, especially those in Florida, have Tasered chidlren as young a six, and old people--often when there was no physical danger whatsoever to anybody. They just wanted to make a person do something fast.

I remember the 71-year-old woman who was Tasered because she was upset at a nursing home when she couldn't find her friend and they wouldn't tell her where she had been taken, or even if she had died (which the visiting woman feared when they clammed up and she couldn't find her friend). She was upset, so they Tasered her, because they thought she was too excited.

Remember the 14-year-old girl who got Tasered for playing hooky from school?

Remember the diabetic woman who was Tasered because she couldn't get out of her car fast enough when ordered to. She was slumped over the steering wheel in a diabetic coma, so of course they Tasered her for noncompliance.

I have a five-page collection of articles about abusive use of Tasers by cops on the most unlikely victims. (I have lots of other kinds of bizarre police brutality articles, too.)

[Romulox]

172. Right. If Kerry couldn't "lead" 6 tubby rampaging cops that day...he can't lead the USA nt

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

12. OK,

I haven't seen the video, I actually thought your OP WAS sensationalist.

If Sen. Kerry watched over this, and people who came to see him, supporters who presumably would recoil at this police state action, didn't say anything,it is worthy of laser focus.

I'm off to watch the video. It would have been nice if included in your OP.

MKJ

[partylessinOhio]

10. It was NOT OK. I saw a tape of this and could not believe that nobody

objected or attempted to stop the police from tasering this man in the middle of a group of people sitting in their seats. Have we gone insane?

The man kept yelling, "Don't taser me, don't taser me." He was submissive and down on the floor. Why was this necessary? It wasn't.

This is very troublesome. I don't know what has happened to the people in this once great country.

[slowry]

44. He wasn't submissive. He was fighting even as he was on the ground, while they made every effort to

simply cuff him. Before that he was shoving the officers, who were trying to walk him out. That being said, the taser was completely uncalled for, and he should make some bank off this.

That being said, this guy was a disruptive, arrogant prick who deserved to be thrown out. A couple knees in the back until he calmed down, or screamed himself unconscious, I guess. He acted out violently long before any of the officers did.

This guy is not a hero. He should apply for a job at prisonplanet.com -- they enjoy provoking cops and then crying "FASCISTS".

[Bonobo]

79. Are you saying he was posing a threat when they tasered him?

Simple question. Answer it.

[ManiacJoe]

98. Technically, yes he did.

However, the cops greatly mishandled the situation from the beginning. The first step should have been to verbally ask him to leave. If he refused, they should have just escorted him out with the simple laying on of hands. One of the big problems with tasers is that the cops like to play with the equipment that allows them to become lazy. With the four cops, they were capable of literally carrying him out of the building.

[Bonobo]

116. He was NOT a threat on the ground when they tasered him.

[ManiacJoe]

120. Well, not a big threat. But, yes, a threat.

A very little one. And that was all the cops needed for an "by the book" reason to taser him.

Now if we could just get some folks with a little more intellegence to rewrite The Book for the cops....

[slowry]

100. I said the tasering was uncalled for, so no, I won't answer your question.

edited to remove the part where I called Bonobo a "dick".

lol. Sorry, but as much as I sympathize with the guy, for how he was ultimately handled by the cops, he's not some kind of revolutionary hero. More of a Cho than a Che.

[Bonobo]

115. WTF is talking to you anyway?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

156. delete

[slowry]

170. You? You replied to my post. WTF M8 n/t

[lonestarnot]

83. I think he just had a melt down from stuffing 3 more years of a cheat.

[MikeNY]

152. I smell crap.

Did you know that the Supreme Court has ruled that false arrest is assault, and can be responded with appropriate force by the victim? This student was not read miranda rights, was taser'd after he was ALREADY handcuffed on the ground, and did not violate the law. He had every right to resist arrest because his liberty was being violated.

[ryanus]

13. link to youtube vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag

This boils my blood

[Snot Hannity]

25. I have lost my respect for Kerry.

I watched the video and it made me sick. Kerry did not have the decency to have a debate with an American citizen nor did he have the heart to stop an American citizen from being abused.

edited typo.

[ManiacJoe]

45. What did you expect Kerry to do?

It's not like he had any control or authority over the cops.

[Bonobo]

52. He had a microphone.

Even a wedding singer would have said something with it.

He should have/could have asserted authority. Even if the cops didn't respect the asertion, nothing would be lost.

He should have told the police to desist and deescalate. If they ignored him, so what? That is what a leader would do anyway. A leader that cares. He was a guest speaker there. He has some responsibility to the audience that gathered to listen to him, and to his supporters, of whom I'm pretty sure this kid must have been at some point. He was no Bush fan, that's for sure.

[Snot Hannity]

Just utter three words.

"Let him speak". No, Kerry was already trying to cut him off. The cops arbitrarily decided to manhandle the young man and brutalize him. Kerry should have walked, if not run, over to the cops and asked them to stop. I respect that unknown person screaming to protect the young man. But Kerry, no!

[slowry]

109. He did; you're wrong. And uhh welcome to DU, I think. n/t

[Snot Hannity]

123. Are you referring to that weak "That is alright" standing like

a mannequin, or going on talking when the man was being brutalized right in front of his eyes? Sorry, I am not convinced.

[Kingshakabobo]

137. Come on, you can say it. Finish Kerry's statement........

........Let me help you:

...."That's all right, let me answer his questions"......

[Snot Hannity]

144. Sure, but that was not said to stop the police from abusing

the young man. And Kerry actually went on speaking, answering the question while the man was on the floor screaming in pain. I am not convinced. Anyway, good night.
:hug:

[Kingshakabobo]

119. I guess you missed where Kerry says...

...."That's all right, let me answer his questions"......before all hell breaks loose.

Did you miss that part?

[wisteria]

129. This guy seemed dangerous to me. I don't think it was Kerry's place to interfere with a police matte...

This person was there to gain attention and who knows what else. The police had been watching him.
You know the senator could of been arrested also for interfering with the police.
Kerry did the right thing even if you are to immature to realize it. He exerted leadership.

[Snot Hannity]

136. You can make your argument without resorting to namecalling other DUers.

n/t

[wisteria]

142. Expressing a pov about immaturity is not name calling. n/t

[tired_old_fireman]

141. How did that guy seem dangerous?

He seemed emotional, but since when is that a crime?

[wisteria]

143. he wasn't rational. He was demanding extra time and he was shouting at the Senator.

John Lennon was murdered by a fan angered earlier because he didn't get an autograph. Bobby Kennedy was murdered by a man who made his way through the crowd unnoticed. Fanatics are everywhere. I say it is better to be safe than sorry.

[tired_old_fireman]

148. Politicians need to see angry people.

I'm sorry, but that guy wasn't threatening. He was surrounded by five cops when he was talking. Even if he had a weapon (which seemed highly unlikely) he would have needed Rambo skills to harm anyone. It was classic overreaction by cops leading to police brutality.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

155. This student asked 3 questions I would love to ask Kerry. That said, where was Kerry

when this kid was being pulled out and tasered? If I were Kerry, I would have gotten off of the stage and gotten involved, and he didn't.

[Major Hogwash]

18. Face it: Freedom of speech in this country is dead.

And to think this was "Constitution Day"!

[ProSense]

21. This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about being

disruptive and the use of excessive force.

Notice that the students actually applauded when the cops went to remove him. He was being disruptive.

I don't think he should have been tasered, but he should have been removed for being disruptive. He chose to kick and scream instead of leaving quietly.

[Major Hogwash]

26. Tell the kid who was tasered that.

He's got one helluva lawsuit against the FL police.

[ProSense]

28. He will not be suing them for infringing on his free speech.

Excessive force, maybe, but not free speech.

[Major Hogwash]

150. Do you have a crystal ball and know that from looking into the future?

Not only was his ability to exercise his freedom of speech interrupted, he was tasered!

I've been tasered, ProSense.
For a demonstration here about non-lethal weapons.
I'll never volunteer for that shit ever again.
It hurts like a motherfucker.
I was sick after I was tasered and puked my guts out for 20 minutes.
I was totally disoriented for almost a half of an hour.
It'll make your dick hard, for all the wrong reasons.
If your bladder is anywhere near being full, you'll piss your pants.
If your close to needing a bowel movement, you'll crap your pants.
I'm serious, getting tasered hurts bad.
I've seen men twice my size get tasered and they wound up moaning and groaning just like anyone else.

[mark414]

59. and they chose, as first action, to arrest him

do you really think that if two cops stood in front of him and said "shut up and leave or you'll be arrested and charged" that he would've stayed and kept up with his grandstanding?

i'm tired of people making excuses, any excuse they can when the police act in a manner unbecoming of their role as our supposed guardians.

to protect and serve; not arrest and taser at will because a young college student doesn't know when to shut up.

[ProSense]

75. Yes because he did!

He could have left quietly as they walked him out, but he decided to kick and scream.

Maybe he shouldn't have been tasered, but the taser is not what caused him to become disruptive and begin resisting arrest.

[mark414]

77. No, that's not what happened

did you watch the video? he's standing at the mic, and the FIRST thing they do is grab his arm and bring it behind his back to arrest him. that was their first response.

stop defending police brutality, and recognize it and fight it when you see it.

[ProSense]

92. You obviously didn't watch the full video. n/t

[mark414]

102. yeah, curse these lying eyes of mine

[parasim]

68. Yeah, ok... sure...

The kid was not being distruptive. Not, at least, until the cops went for him. Sure, he was being a bit dramatic, but hell, I would be too, with the prospect that the cops are gonna pull out their tasers whenever I question authority.

Sure, the kid is a conspiracy theorist or some such, because he asked about skull and bones. But why does Kerry and Bush play their stupid games when asked about their little boys' club? Why didn't Kerry put a stop to the nonsense and answer the kid's questions?

Believe me, plenty of people would gain more respect for Kerry, if he would just be honest about that crap.

and I think the applause is a sad commentary on the whole damn thing.

[ProSense]

86. Nonsense!

I couldnt get to my camera in time to record his entrance, but this guy basically comes running in with 4 or 5 cops in tow and says he has been running around trying to get in to ask a question and the cops are going to arrest him for it. they almost do it then but Sen. Kerry says he will answer it. he then answers a previous question someone else asked (i cut that part out because it isnt important to this video) then the guy asks his questions and when he is done all hell breaks lose. to the cop haters: i have no doubt the cops were going exactly by the book, the problem isnt them, its the book! they were doing their job and looked just as confused as this kid (this isnt something that they deal with often). (more) ]

That's from one of the links posted.

And the S&B crap about the election is just that. I watched Senator Kerry answer that question in full at length on PBS during his book tour. It just feeds your narrative to portray this as a question he is afraid to answer.

[AlCzervik]

19. Wow wtf? I don't blame Kerry but i would like to hear from him.

[Bonobo]

23. Actually I DIDN'T blame Kerry. Really, read my OP.

[AlCzervik]

24. i didn't say you did and i didn't mean to imply you did. I would still like to hear from

Kerry as to what happened after the event.

[TheUniverse]

I blame Kerry.

He sat there and let it happen. He is a powerful senator. He could have told the police to stop.

[AlCzervik]

32. do you know for a fact Kerry could see what was happening to this student?

i don't and i would like to hear from him before i decide he's unworthy. Kerry needs to come out and make a statement about this.

[TheUniverse]

34. LOL I guess I don't know for a fact.

But from the video I'd say there is a 99 percent chance he saw it, and a 1 percent chance he is blind. Therefore, there is a 99 percent chance I blame Kerry. This is simply horrible and I can't believe some people are supporting this just because Kerry is a Democrat. This is not the action of a democracy.

[AlCzervik]

38. i don't disagree with you, the tasering was something way over the line

but i think it's unfair to just assume Kerry knew what was going on, maybe he did and maybe he didn't but at least hear him out before you damn him.

[Bonobo]

35. True. You're right. He should make a statement.

If he ignores this and treats it as a non-issue, he is damned in my eyes. That young man was a human being and a good one too.

[AlCzervik]

40. He absolutely needs to, it's not even a question and if he doesn't well i guess we'll

all have the answer and thats going to really suck.

[Bonobo]

33. I agree, sort of. That is what I said in #20.

[ManiacJoe]

49. He has no authority over the cops.

What gives you that idea that he does?

[TheUniverse]

56. I know he doesn't

But dammit, he shouldn't have stood there and let it happen.

[ManiacJoe]

80. There is nothing he could have done.

He had no control over them, no authority over them. If he had tried to physically intervine he would have ben arrested. The best he could have done would have been something like telling everyone with cameras to get good recordings of what was happening. But nothing he could do or say was going to prevent the student from being taken out of the building in handcuffs, regardless of whether the cops were right in doing it or not. (And they were not right in doing so, at least in the way they did it.)

[TheUniverse]

95. He had the microphone

He could have told the police that they were committing an undemocratic act. He has no excuse. Are cops now the final word, and we can't do nothing about it?

[ManiacJoe]

103. An "undemocratic act" ????

There is plenty we can do about cops over stepping their authority. But none of those options apply to the here and now of the abuse unless you happen to have enough people there and then who are properly motivated to physically attack and restrain the cops from further abuse. Working with the Internal Affairs divisions and lawsuits are not nearly as satisfying, but they get the job done in the long term.

[TheUniverse]

105. That action seemed like something that happens in a communist country.

Not a democracy. Why are people willing to accept this?

[ManiacJoe]

112. No one seems to be accepting it.

Some of us are just trying to point out that physically resisting the lowly beat cops, regardless of how wrong they might be, will not get you anywhere except into jail. Get the ranking officers involved; have them repremand and retrain the junior cops. Yes, it takes longer, and you still get removed from the building, but you accomplish the job of correcting the bad cops' behavior while staying out of jail.

[MikeNY]

153. He did exactly what he should have done.

And now he's all over the news. Its called civil disobedience. His questions were important, all 3 of them.. lets review the questions:

1. Why did you concede the 2004 election, even after so many reports of voter fraud?

2. Why didn't we impeach Bush for his war plans against Iran?

3. Were you in the same secret society, Skull & Bones, with Bush?

How many people have to die before we learn the real answers to these questions? Tens of thousands of civilian deaths make these 3 questions very important. Couldn't they have given the student another 60 seconds to finish his remarks?

[ManiacJoe]

189. But he discarded the "civil" in civil disobedience. (n/t)

[TheUniverse]

22. I saw the video on youtube

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

He asked a tough question, he gets hauled away by police and tasered. Simply pathetic. Is this how we treat people who dare to question the politicians?

[Bonobo]

27. Thanks for a non-complicated response to non-complicated question.

It was pathetic.

I am so ashamed and sickened. That kid could/should be a leader. He has a passion for justice. He was upset about Kerry having given up early because he was an idealistic kid and a Kerry supporter in 04 no doubt.

Yes, he got hotheated, but it was a Q&A session. The kid probably sat there for 2 hours listening to Kerry after going to A LOT of trouble to even get in the event. He wanted answers to explain how he had been so let down. Well, he got answers all right. Not the onese he was looking for, but maybe deeper, truer answers.

He could have been a leader someday. Who knows. I doubt he is a bad kid if he was that knowledgeable about the election fakery. Most kids his age don't know SHIT!

[Marlie]

48. I agree

I campaigned for and of course, voted for Senator Kerry in 2004 and as that young man I was so
disillusioned when he gave up so soon. I've watched two videos of this incident and cannot believe Kerry kept rambling on while this man was being attacked. He could have and should have stopped it but I think the Skull and Bones questions was one he preferred to ignore. Who gave the order for
the police to step in? Did they make that judgment on their own?

I'm sorry, this incident is disgusting and I've lost any and all respect for Senator Kerry who knew
full well what was going on.

[ManiacJoe]

70. Based on the two videos, the cops seem to have made the decision

on their own. Whether or not they had a briefing before hand on what standards were going to be used to eject folks is unknown.

Lots of folks seem to be under the mistaken belief that Kerry had any ability or authority to control or influence the cops.

[TheUniverse]

81. Anyone can influence cops

If you stand up to them when they do things like this. Ask Martin Luther King.

[Marlie]

93. I'm not sure

On the video over at Huffington Post, there's a man in a black suit standing directly behind
the police. Just looks suspicious to me.

[Bonobo]

73. That is what he did. He rambled on as if nothing was happening while

EXTREME PAIN was inflicted on that young man. He literally watched torture and acted as if nothing was happening. Because of the uniforms. It's human nature. Psych experiments show it. But I am dissapointed. It shows he is NOT a leader. It doesn't condemn him as an evil man, but as a wise man once said;

"Goods gotta be right all the time. Evil just gotta be right once" or "All it takes for Evil to triumph is for the Good to do nothing."

[Mass]

89. We have no way to know what was visible and audible from the podium,

The video taken were all taken very close to the student, and, even there, it is difficult to hear what he was actually saying. (remember that often podiums are lit in a way that prevents from seeing what happens in the room).

Which is why I agree with the poster who says that he would hear from him before condemning Kerry!

For the rest, we agree totally.

[KittyWampus]

60. You think people who rant about Skull & Bones should be leaders? LOL!

[Bonobo]

65. He was asking about him belonging to the same social club as Bush.

Seems reasonable. Skeptical, maybe even a bit paranoid, but not unreasonable. He was also playing to the crowd at that point.

[KittyWampus]

72. He RANTED for a while before that last "question" was asked. The video cuts in at the end. Inform

inform yourself before starting threads about subjects.

[Bonobo]

82. I saw the entire video. I am as informed as you.

Please don't take that tone.

Okay? Pretty please?

[TheUniverse]

88. I saw the video too.

And he did nothing to require being removed. I guess society has just gotten used to politicians not getting asked tough questions.

[sandnsea]

51. That isn't the complete video

and do you notice the cops standing there. Do you normally see cops hovering around the mic at these kinds of events?

He was a disrupter. The kind we tombstone around here.

They tried to kindly get him to leave. He decided to launch a public "denial of service".

So the police got testier, and pushed him some more, and he flipped out and got tasered and arrested. It's unfortunate and it would have been better if the cops had just let him go. But these things happen when young people are raised with misinformation and the sense that they have a right to do anything they want anywhere they want and just call it 'free speech'.

[TheUniverse]

66. Here's a longer version of the video.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag The student did nothing wrong. He was not out of line. And how can you compare getting banned from a private forum to being tazered by a public official?

[sandnsea]

84. It wasn't just a tough question

That's what you said in the post I responded to, and it's not true.

I compared his disruption to trolls, it's the same thing. People can stand up and disrupt events, and sometimes I support that they do it. But there are consequences and if you don't want to deal with them, don't disrupt.

I also said it would have been preferable for the cops to not taser him, and just take him out and let him go.

[TheUniverse]

94. So what you are saying is if you ask a politician a tough question, expect to be removed & tazered.

Is this alright with you? The only disruption he caused was asking Kerry about skull and bones and about his conceding the election early. Those are legitimate questions.

[ProSense]

99. Why do you keep insisting it was a tough question and that the

question had anything to do with him being removed? Kerry in the video said he'll answer the question. In fact, the question isn't tough, it's silly.

[TheUniverse]

106. Because its the truth.

[ProSense]

111. What's the truth,

that Kerry said he'd answer the question?

You know he's answered it before don't you? Doing it again wouldn't have been a problem. Imagine if this guy had asked the question without the theatrics, he and all of you inquiring minds that have never heard the answer before would have gotten it. No taser, no jail. The rest of us would have gotten to hear about the speech.

[TheUniverse]

114. Kerry said he'd answer the question

But said nothing about the man being removed and tazered. There were no "theatrics" till the cops put his hands behind his back.

[sandnsea]

101. He didn't want an answer, he wanted to rant

Every time Kerry attempted to answer him, the kid kept on ranting. Kerry extended the Q&A to take the kids' question. He attempted to answer him about the election. The rant went on. Then the kid brought up skull and bones and it was clear he wasn't interested in honest answers. The time was already up, he was asked to leave. Then he started screaming, and the cops surrounded him and started pushing him towards the door. He got louder and it all went bad from there.

You are misrepresenting what happened. I don't know what need the skull and bones fantasy feeds for you. Maybe it's easier to believe in a conspiracy than deal with the real world where shit goes screwy for no reason whatsoever. Regardless, when you disrupt events and don't leave, you get arrested. And sit in a real jail and get a real record and go to a real court where a real judge will laugh in your face if you try to blame skull and bones.

[TheUniverse]

108. So you want this kid to have jail time and a criminal record.

WOW... I don't know what to say...

[sandnsea]

117. I don't get to decide, the prosecutor does

See how that works? I am not the one who wrote the law that when a large group is gathered for a purpose, that others can't come along and disrupt it. I didn't write the laws that state you need a permit to stage an event, so as not to disrupt other events happening at the same time. I didn't write the law that says you must obey cops, or be considered disorderly. Or the one that says if you don't go with a cop who arrests you, that you'll be resisting arrest.

I didn't do any of that. But it doesn't change that it's real.

I also said, several times, that I thought the cops should let the kid go. But you distort my words, just like you distort what happened today.

WOW...I don't know what to say...

Except I do, only I can't because it's against the rules to use the "L" word to another DUer. There's those pesky rules again.

[TheUniverse]

118. Bull Fucking shit,

The prosecutor doesn't decide if he get's a criminal record. Its the jury or judge who decides. But I would expect such knowledge of the court system from you.

[sandnsea]

126. the prosecutor can decline to prosecute

And in petty stuff like this, you usually don't even have a right to a jury trial. If you go to trial, the judge decides. And when you're relying on technical legal arguments, you want the judge to decide.

Maybe you should graduate from high school, at least, before you start exercising your free speech rights.

[TheUniverse]

128. You said "the prosecutor does"

impling that the prosecutor is the final decider. Where did you get your legal degree from?

[sandnsea]

131. It's in the prosecutors hands now

That's the way it is. Sorry you don't understand how the system works.

[DURHAM D]

132. Just curious - why does your post count stay constant? eom

[TheUniverse]

138. I don't know...

That would be a question to ask the programmer of this website.

[karynnj]

125. If he asked a tough question, then listened quietly to the answer it would be different

That is not anyone's definition - His "question" was a rant - and he continued ranting as the Senator answered. His comment that the Senator had 2 hours, he deserved 2 minutes is simply not true. The audience came there for the purpose of listening to the Senator and were likely happy that he spent 2 hours speaking to them. The student was not even a member of the audience from the description of him running in. Nobody was there to here him for 2 minutes.

THe fact is that he was imposing on everyone else who came there to hear Kerry speak on Iraq and national security, things he is an expert on. Kerry is typically excellent answering questions - and he did agree to answer this one and did.

The Senator attempted to diffuse the situation by agreeing to answer the question. He did not have to do this. First because he was answering the last question. Second, what gives this person more right than all the kids sitting there. Then it is clear that he did not simply ask a question and sit down to hear the response.

The story is not clear on how badly treated he was by the police or what Kerry saw from the podium. In some places the lighting is such that it is hard to see from the podium due to the lights. The police and the university security were in charge.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sleipnir]

53. Why wouldn't Kerry let him speak? He just let security taser him and went on his merry way.

Wow.

Talk about crushing dissent.

[ProSense]

61. Which video did you watch?

Kerry did answer some of his questions, but the student was being
disruptive.

That's why the students in the room actually applauded when the cops went to remove him.

[LittleClarkie]

64. Kerry said he was asking a valid question

there's a full video around here somewhere.

[sleipnir]

71. Then why was he tasered?

I'll look for the video.

This is crazy.

I hope someone with the authorities has an explanation for the events. Insane.

[LittleClarkie]

87. Kerry didn't taser him.

Kerry saying it was a valid question, and the cops deciding he should be taken away are two different issues.

[LittleClarkie]

97. Here I found the full video for you

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

[sleipnir]

107. An over-reaction from the police, but Kerry did nothing to stop it (and he could have)

Ah, another happy day in American Politics and Free Speech, courtesy local law enforcement.

[TheUniverse]

113. That video makes it even worse

From this perspective you can see Kerry could clearly see it and said nothing about it. And even worse they charged him with "inciting a riot" WTF, if these cops don't get fired, its time to protest!

[ProSense]

121. Of course it does.

You see a guy kicking and screaming hysterically because he is asked to leave, refusing to do so, and then being taken out of the room, and that's before he got tasered.

[tblue37]

122. Here it is.

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

[globalvillage]

69. Did you watch the video?

I didn't think so.

[DURHAM D]

74. Did you watch it?

Kerry didn't tell him to shut up - in fact was still trying to answer his question while the police were trying to cuff him.

Good grief

[tblue37]

67. I posted about this in LBN. I was surprised at how many

people supported the Tasering:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2994786

Most of the responses recognized it as inappropriate, but far too many thought it was appropriate!

[Bonobo]

127. Man, did you see it from that phone camera. I was almost physically sick.

That the responses here are anything other than 100% condemning the police's actions is concerning. Really, really concerning.

I wish you could all live, like I have for a time, in a country where violence and distrust and anger (and poor service) is not so prevalent. The people wind up being really nice because everyone else is so nice. It's called civility. It's what arises from being civil. Like turtles on turtles...

[mikelewis]

76. Don't diss on Sir Kerry......

During the run up to the election, I got to learn a lot about this brave knight Sir Kerry;

The Ballad of Brave Sir Kerry

Bravely bold Sir Kerry rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die, O brave Sir Kerry !
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways,
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Kerry !

He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
Or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken;
To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away;
And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Sir Kerry !

His head smashed in and his heart cut out
And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged
And his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off
And his pen--

Well, you get the point...

And then, the election came and Brave Sir Kerry realized that somehow he would have to convince not only the American people that the election was crooked but the Supreme court and Congress as well. Realizing the futility of taking on the news corporations, the corrupt justice department, local and state Boards of Selection and not to mention the divinely anointed in the Republican Party... He did what any brave man would do...

Brave Sir Kerry ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Kerry turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Kerry!
He is packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge...


So it doesn't surprise me that he would allow this sort of thing to happen right in front of his eyes yet again. There is no difference between what happened in 2004 and what happened at the university. Kerry could have stopped that scene and bravely chickened out... yet another opportunity Brave Sir Kerry let slip away.

On edit: This btw is a complete rip-off of Monty Python's Holy Grail...

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikelewis]

162. Excellent retort...

I almost forgot about his almost standing up against election fraud... and his almost not voting to authorize the illegal war and his quite nearly historic battle against authorizing the Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps, illegal spying... yeah, he's Daniel Webster reincarnate... all evidence to the contrary, of course.

[rudeboy666]

91. Spoiled kid

That young man was being a spoiled kid.

Of course, this doesn't necessitate excessive force (this is for the courts to decide).

[Bonobo]

146. Don't say that about my Senator!

[beachmom]

124. This is not the most important subject to discuss.

This guy who ranted and raved; who disrupted the event and when the police told him to leave, he wouldn't, when they said they would arrest, he resisted. All of that ... is more important than stopping the war?

John Kerry has been arrested for peaceful protests back during the Vietnam War era. He has been wiretapped by the FBI as well as followed by them. Right wing terrorists threw a brick through his window, and it landed near his baby. Do you think he doesn't know what the hell free speech is about? Do you think he minds being asked any question under the sun? No. He will answer any question, and has never had a problem with that.

The guy went nuts after having PLENTY OF TIME to say his piece. If you recall, peaceful protestors had to leave the Petraeus hearings this past week. They yelled, ranted a bit BUT DID NOT RESIST being led out because they were disrupting. This guy was allowed time for a question, and Kerry was ready to answer it. But then he went bezerk. And resisted the cops who attempted to eject him JUST LIKE ON CAPITOL HILL. Can you imagine if he pulled that shit on the Hill?

The only part I am unsure how I feel about was the tasering. But that was at THE END, and there is no way Kerry would have known it was about to happen UNTIL IT DID.

This world has gone mad, when a freakish event like this happens and people call it "the most important subject to discuss".

As a Virginian, may I also remind you that we had a tragic event happen on a campus -- the Virginia Tech shootings. And people blamed the police in that for not doing enough; and they blamed the university. So it could have gone the other way, where this guy DID get violent and then the police would have been blamed for not doing enough.

[TheUniverse]

130. Are you comparing this guy to Cho Seung Hui?

Are you saying you want police to treat everyone like they are Cho Seung Hui?

[razzleberry]

134. is taser resistant clothing available?

I assume they don't aim for the face.

perhaps DU should should sell such clothing,
at future Kerry events

[Fabio]

135. sad to see

but i dont blame kerry.

[iamthebandfanman]

139. I agree.

I mean after all , what law exactly was he breaking ? was he even breaking a rule ? while a little on the strange acting side, i really dunno what that has to do with him not being allowed to ask questions.

there was no need for the taser

[tired_old_fireman]

145. If the same thing happened at a Bush everyone on DU would be up in arms.

I guess people want to let Kerry slide, but when democrats behave like Bush, I find it repugnant. Kerry could have tried to protect the guy from the cops. He didn't do anything.

Can I get 2004 my vote back? On second thought, with the way the voting machines worked, I probably voted for Bush anyway.

[sandnsea]

149. If a freeper disrupted Kucinich

You would all call it a conspiracy if the police didn't stop it.

[H2O Man]

158. "let Kerry slide"

The issue of the police using excessive force after the fellow had been moved to the back of the room is of value. Attempts to make it an issue about Kerry are foolish.

Kerry does not hire, supervise, or control the security in a university when he is the guest speaker. The security forces are not interested in, nor are they going to take a single second, to listen to the guest speaker's suggestions on how they should do their job.

[mikelewis]

166. I beg to differ...

If Sen. John Kerry exerted his authority, they would have let the man alone. You could hear him in the background telling the guards that he will answer the question and you can hear how uncomfortable he is during this situation but his comfort level never strayed to the point where he became angry and forceful. Several people in the audience began to speak out when it was clear the man was being hurt but Kerry did not... it was his room, he was standing at the bully pulpit, if he had shouted "Stop", it would have stopped... but he didn't. He vacillated as he always does... forever forced to witness what he knows is wrong and suffering from impotence because he is unwilling to make a stand. This is a man who is supposed to value free speech... what we watched is a man being tasered right in front of him for exercising that free speech... and Kerry said nothing, did nothing... wilting like a delicate flower in the face of police brutality. His weak reaction almost reminds me of Oliver Twists appeal for "Can I have some more, sir" yet Kerry was not quite so brave or quite so forceful as meek little Twist. I like John Kerry, he seems like a very decent respectable fellow... but he is not, in any way, the warrior the party has tried to paint him out to be. Vietnam was a long time ago... there's no questioning his bravery then but today? Today he wilted.

Try and imagine the same scenario unfolding in front of Dennis Kucinich. Imagine how that scenario would have played out... do you think Dennis would stand meekly by while anyone was tasered or man-handled for asking a question? I can guarantee you he wouldn't; most likely he'd be getting tasered right next to the guy but he wouldn't just stand there impotent... crumbling in the face of adversity. You can defend Kerry's inaction all you like but some things are purely indefensible.

[H2O Man]

167. The simple fact

is that Senator Kerry has zero authority in that situation. Speculating about what may or may not have happened if it were Dennis Kucinich is just that -- speculation.

[mikelewis]

168. You're right about my speculation...

however you are wrong about Kerry's authority. It's irrelevant what legal authority we believe he had... he had moral authority and an opportunity to use it in defense of the defenseless. He did nothing... which has been his calling card for these past few years. You can believe he's justified but I do not... I believe he showed weakness and lacked fidelity to the ideals that this country is supposed to be founded on. I heard many voices shouting for the police to stop... the only voice that may have made a difference was silent... and evil prevailed yet again.

[H2O Man]

169. Nope.

Respectfully disagree.

When a person is speaking in a public setting such as Kerry was, and there is a disturbance, once the police start to take action, the best thing the speaker can do is to try to separate from it. The speaker does not want to make things worse. There is zero chance that those officers were going to change their tactics because of anything Kerry could have said after they got started in removing him.

You are as entitled to your beliefs on weakness and fidelity to ideals as I am to mine, of course. I can remember how Martin Luther King, Jr would sometimes invite a person from the audience who was yelling at him to come on stage, and have their say. From what I have seen, it appeared that Kerry did attempt to engage the student in a discussion. But once the police move in, the dynamics change.

I am among those who believes that the 2004 election was stolen. I had posted that fall about a crime that took place in Pennsylvania, and about a conversation I had with a Kerry official in which I was told about their concerns of wrong-doing in 10 states. I do believe that the Kerry people should have taken a different stance, both before and after the election. There are times when it is important to speak up, confront wrong-doing, and take a firm stance. The incident at the college was distinct from 2004.

[mikelewis]

186. You have much more patients than I...

Which is why you identify with water, perhaps. Myself, I identify with fire...

‘I have cast fire upon the world, and behold, I am guarding it until it blazes.’

I see the evidence of a crime and wonder why the victim isn't filled with righteous rage... why didn't he stand up? Was the odds too long? Were "they" holding the "Victory in Fallujah" over Kerry's head? Did he just cave under pressure and bad advice? Was he simply blind? I'm almost too afraid to ask that question to the good Senator now that I know the consequences of asking tough questions but the fire in me makes me angry that he isn't more vocal in his opposition... that he doesn't stand up and rail against the injustice done not only to himself but to us as well. I too want to support him and say that what happened had nothing to do with him... that the events that night (either night) were out of his control but we will never know because in either case he made no attempt to exert any control. He simply stood back and let the chips fall where they may and that may be practical and maybe the smart thing to do but it does not inspire... it does not light the world on fire. If the old adage is true, "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing," then Senator Kerry is convicted by the truth for he did nothing to thwart either evil.

I often wonder if there is anything he could have done about the election... I wonder if he could have fought and won... I also wonder what role we played in that concession decision... Did we as his supporters have the will to follow him? Was it his lack of faith in us that led him to concession? If push came to shove could he believe we wouldn't abandon him to the wolves? That's a tough call in the face of hindsight... but it's a call that will face the next challenger in the upcoming Presidential Selection as well. Will Obama sit down... or Hilary... or Edwards? Which candidate when faced with Kerry's decision do we hope abandons good sense and practicality and makes the decision to set this world on fire? Kerry had that opportunity but chose the smart path... the same sort of opportunity presented itself when that idiot was being tazered yet the same smart choice was made. I don't disagree with you... he was just as powerless as those in the audience but they spoke out... they stood up... he simply stood there being smart. I'm tired of smart Waterman... it's time for fire... it's been time for fire. I, for one, believe we cannot wait for good and decent men to decide it's finally time to stand up and speak out in the face of evil.

I like Senator Kerry but the reason why I can't agree with his inaction is because he fails to lead... not because he leads to failure. He could win me over easily, simply by raising a banner but he doesn't... he won't... he remains silent and we remain adrift; lost in an endless sea of vacillations and hair-splitting. I'm tired of calmly accepting atrocities and meekly acknowledging evil in passing... I want to set this world on fire and I can only do that by becoming a part of someone who has that same burning ignorant passion. The meek will inherit the Earth, this is true... but they will inherit it from the bold... those who forged the world anew in fire first and then water.

On this issue, we disagree but as always... respectfully so... love ya H2OMan.
mikelewis

[RangerRK]

181. he had moral authority and an opportunity to use it

I agree.

Do you think Kucinich would have just stood there and let the Cops taser a student for asking questions?

[mikelewis]

187. Truthfully it's hard to tell what Kucinich would have done but it wouldn't surprise me to...

...if a similar situation should arise to see him intercede on a kids' behalf. Kucinich lives by a strong moral conviction and that conviction is evident in what he says and does... even when people disagree with Dennis, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks he's being dishonest or disingenuous.

I love the guy and that's why I vote for him as he is my representative... I would love to see him as President but I don't think America would respond well to a person with a soul running this country. Strength through Peace is a slogan that I adore but for some reason makes the rest of America recoil as though touched by holy water. Kucinich is too right, too good and maybe too righteous to lead these United Scumbags in America... the corporations would hate him and probably try to kill him, organized crime would hate him and probably try to kill him, Corporate Christianity would hate him and try to crucify him on the Statue of Liberty and the end result would be that Congress would still sell out to the corporations and never pass his legislation... the media would still sell out to their corporate paymasters and never give him a fair shot... the American people would continue to pull their Rip Van Winkle routine and never know he even existed... in the end, they would bury him like they did Carter and the country would return to evil as usual. I love Dennis but he is too good a person to wish the office of President upon. Still, I can't help but vote for him in the Primary, I am a dreamer and though he's got a snowball's chance in hell of winning... I am still mindful that maybe even in hell, people can still dream of snowballs... and that makes me look uphill from time to time in the hope one may yet come our way.

[ecstatic]

171. I agree 100%. Kucinich would have never allowed that to go on

in his presence! Uggh...

[brentspeak]

165. In other words, you're a "concerned" poster

[tired_old_fireman]

174. What does that mean?

[Bonobo]

176. That is Brentspeak's cute way of calling you a troll or a freeper or a person

that is here with ulterior motives merely to sow disorder among the Democratic party.

Cute, huh?

[tired_old_fireman]

188. Sorry I asked.

[MikeNY]

151. Why didn't he answer the Skull & Bones question?

CNN will turn the entire ordeal into a soundbyte and a 2 minute story to blow this over.

Why didn't he answer his final question? (About Skull & Bones?) lol... sad state we're in indeed.

He talked to long? He only talked for about 2 minutes!!

Oh, and the student was already cuffed before they taser'd him. Better vid at: http://www.starbanner.com/article/20070917/NEWS/70917006/1053/BREAKING_NEWS

I guess OJ robbing the casino is a more important story?

[RangerRK]

175. He was already cuffed?

Oh My God! As if it weren't bad enough...

[malta blue]

159. I am troubled that Kerry himself did not take action against

the student being tasered. As a young man, John Kerry bravely confronted others about the war in Vietnam. He should have taken the student's questions, even if they were "disruptive" and at least addressed them in one way or another. The fact that he stood by and seemingly did nothing while a young man was manhandled by the police is just plain wrong.

No flames please - I am sick and in my bed and cannot effectively defend myself, but I felt this needed to be said.

[Bassic]

160. Tasers are probably the worst thing that happened to law enforcement

in a long long time.

[rodeodance]

163. it is there new toay. That is is used in schools on the young and people

who obviously will not harm anyone is very very upsetting.

[Bassic]

164. That it is used on anyone who's not being violent is appalling

in my view.

[RobofSWVA]

173. I agree. get rid of tasers.

we should let law enforcement go back to shooting people and beating them over the head with blunt objects instead.

[Catherine Vincent]

179. Why didn't they just handcuff the guy and get him out of there?

Why taser him even if he was being an ass?

[LittleClarkie]

183. Statement by John Kerry regarding the incident

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."

[RangerRK]

184. If Kerry really cares...

...he will get on youtube and answer the three questions posed by the student. He should PROVE he is not afraid to answers these questions...because I am very curious as to the answers myself, especially in light of the fact he said he read Palast's book.