Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Wow... I Will Salute No More Forever

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:23 PM
Original message
Wow... I Will Salute No More Forever
Edited on Sun Sep-16-07 02:29 PM by WillyT
Mike Ferner: I Will Salute No More Forever
Submitted by BuzzFlash on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 1:55pm.

A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION
by Mike Ferner

<snip>

St. Louis - His government broke his heart but it could not break Air Force veteran Charles Powell's spirit. Fighting back tears, the 64 year-old vet stood tall and resolute in front of 400 of his comrades, describing in verse the final steps of a painful disillusionment.

Each summer during the national convention of Veterans For Peace, time is reserved for a Veterans' Speakout, where any member can rise to say whatever is on their mind.

When the veterans gathered in 2002, prior to the invasion of Iraq, George Bush and the hawks of Washington were pounding away on the war drums. That year, Powell, who had served on a Titan ICBM launch crew during the Cuban missile crisis, read his poem titled, "I Won't Let Them Take My Flag." He noted the warmongers were "again waving my flag" as a buildup to invasion, and he countered what he felt was a manipulation of the national symbol with the following lines reminiscent of the great Langston Hughes.


"But to me 'Old Glory' still stands for the liberty, justice and solidarity yet to come. So I still wave it too. I wave it for health care, education, housing and food for all. I wave it for peace and love and I wave it for hope. Most of all, I wave it for the America yet to be."



After four and a half years of war in Iraq, Veterans For Peace convened again this summer and Charles Powell was there as always. As his turn came at the Speakout microphone, he struggled a few seconds to compose himself. Then, in a clear voice growing more determined as he spoke, Powell mirrored the pain, regret, and anger in the hearts of so many who listened.

I WILL SALUTE NO MORE FOREVER


As a child I learned to Worship that piece of colored cloth.

My family, my school, the movies, TV taught me to believe that fragment of fabric stood for good things.

I watched my father, a World War II Army veteran, give homage to that wad of material.

As an airman, I saluted that banner for the four years I served in the Air Force where I stood ready to help launch Titan Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles on command.

Then I became aware that the wonderful things for which that clump of colors is suppose to represent, have not been achieved.

I came to know that awful, unlawful, unwise, and immoral acts have occurred under the stars and stripes.

But I still clung onto the belief and hope that someday, somehow conditions would change and the good things for which that rag is still supposed to stand would yet be realized.

However, I've been forced to come to my senses.

Now we have: preemptive war, the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, stop loss, neglect of returning veterans, ignored infrastructure, billions of dollars squandered on war and occupation, extraordinary rendition, secret imprisonment, warrantless domestic spying, disenfranchisement of voters, stolen elections, torture, suspension of habeas corpus, and denial of due process.

So, even though hearing "America The Beautiful" still increases my heartbeat.

Although seeing those stripes still brings a lump to my throat.

Even though the sight of those stars continues to bring tears to my eyes.

I won't pledge to it anymore.

I won't remove my cap.

I won't stand in respect.

I won't wave it.

I will salute no more forever.


A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION

Mike Ferner is a member of Veterans For Peace and a freelance writer from Ohio.

<snip>

Link: http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1286

Crap... I'm speechless.

:cry:




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dang! I'm speechless too! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Brave soul.
This is where we are.

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Breathtaking, Heartbreaking
For what it's worth, I think I'll join him. And go out there and turn my flags upside down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. one by one, people are speaking the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's the only consolation. It shouldn't have to be this way. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. One by one they're coming to terms
Edited on Sun Sep-16-07 02:39 PM by depakid
with the fact that America is beyond the point of no return.

And we can't just blame the usual suspects on the far right for what has come to pass-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. i don't think we're beyond the point of no return
my god--if i thought that i'd lose my fucking mind.

but i often wonder how much better of a person i would have been/could have been if things had been different--how much more happy and content i would have been. these fucking republicans changed my life, my outlook, my worldview, my heart. a piece of my spirit was stolen and crushed. and they will never be forgiven. but if i thought it would always be this way--if i believed it wouldn't turn around eventually--if i didn't think i could rise up and reinvent my life---if i lost all hope-----i can't even imagine how i would be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. How can we fix what we have done?
The first step is admitting that we are to blame...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
51. Then prepare to lose your mind
Because though the dream may live in our hearts, the reality is so very far from our dream...

The most horrifying thing about all of this is that it has been happening for more than 50 years, but because we wanted to believe otherwise, we dismissed the evidence of it.

I would cry, but this is the coming of dawn, inch by inch. Each person who sees what is really happening is another person fighting to end it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
59. ....
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
63. Not To Be A Hallmark Card, But
Giordano Bruno, I think it was, told the Inquistors who burned him at the stake for contending the Earth moved around the Sun, "You can only burn my body. The idea remains."

Or Albert Camus: "If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life."

"Implacable grandeur." I like that.

Camus again: "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

Scars in fine leather are proof of its authenticity, & nobody gets out of this life alive. Hang in there, it'll all be over in forty or fifty years.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. Invincible summer. ..
Thanks for sharing.

lise
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
74. Take the Blue Pill.
By all means stay in denial.

We have enough people running around without minds already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow, look what BushCo has brought this country to...this brave soul
...stopped short of calling America a fascist state!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. I can only imagine how
he feels being in the military and wanting peace when possible and not sham wars started by oily fascists.

But, from my perspective over the years on DU I've come to think that the fascists do NOT own our Flag and I'm taking it back. I do respect it where as the buSHITS are disgracing it. I see our flag and I don't think buSHITS..I think real Patroits like those who served in World War Two against the first hitler nazi tactics. I certainly don't see the little AWOL who ran away from the Texas National Airguard to crash and burn in Alabama.

It's our flag to be used in respect not disrespect when it's used to bomb ME countries who have the oil.

The buSHIT Fascists do not have claim on our Flag..they want to destroy it; and the corporatemediawhores are doing their damnest to desecrate our flag in lock step with their Pravda disinformation center.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Tears to my eyes. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow. How eloquent.
I can only hope for the day when he can again salute it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Some of us were already here forty years ago.
I have never owned a flag. My parents have never owned a flag. We don't hate America. We just know the truth. You know, Vietnam happened. And it wasn't the first.

Jello Biafra was in trouble in elementary school for refusing to pledge to the flag.

Why is it that most people just don't get it? As a young child I already got it. Lee Ving, the singer for the group Fear, has a song titled Let's Have A War. That song was not written recently. He ties war with the Dow Jones. It was like a sweet catharsis when I heard that tune. Yet it was considered wild at the time.

I remember how I felt so ashamed and embarrassed, 1990, when I said out loud in my office that I was outraged that we'd kill for oil. Blood for oil is what I said. Now Greenspan says the same thing in his new biography. Hey, I was right.

It's good to see others waking up, even it it's a sad thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
52. Well said
:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
58. I Started Being Here Fifty-Four Years Ago, And
Edited on Mon Sep-17-07 12:14 PM by Forrest Greene
"...I have never owned a flag. My parents have never owned a flag. We don't hate America. We just know the truth."

Spoken in solidarity, not oneupsmanship.

I was in high school 1967-71, a big time for War. Every morning, the Pledge Of Allegiance was read over the PA system. It got to the point that the administration had to institute an alternate "Seated Moment Of Silence" for all those of us who refused to salute.



(eta "of us")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sad to say there is still one year remaining for the person responsible for
using WMD's as the reason for invading then occupying and killing one million+ Iraqi civilians.
The fact that Rumsfeld, Rove, and Gonzalez have all departed from the Bush administration speaks volumes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow. Guy's got guts, in a land where fans are held captive when the stadium blares "America the
Beautiful".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tetedur Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
61. America, America God mend thine every flaw
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!


...America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

...
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

...
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

...
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!

Some of my favorite lines from America the Beautiful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've stopped singing the national anthem at any event.
I just stand there and let the other lemmings do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Wow
So some will get rid of flags, or turn them upside down. I can't believe you would give up on your country this quickly. Did George Bush make our flag??

I will salute my flag and sing my anthem. I BELIEVE, and I will let NO ONE take that from me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Did You Read The OP ???
It's not for everyone. It's for him.

BTW - Where are you from Flora ???

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, I read the OP
I was speaking of those who posted in reponse.

New here. :) From the great state of Louisiana.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Welcome To DU, Flora !!!
:bounce::hi::bounce:

Glad ta have ya aboard!

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Happy to be here.
I find the range of emotions and ideas here somewhat interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Do you understand the meaning of an upside down flag?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes I do.
Symbolism is just that. Pro-activism gets the work done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. An upside down flag is a signal of distress
Activists who fly the flag upside down, such as the Iraq Veterans Against the War who led yesterday's march in Washington, are saying we're a nation in distress. The upside down flag is one of DU's avatars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Yes, I know what it means.
And while I know that it does not officially mean disrespect, I just prefer to see it flown in it's glory. JMHO
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iaviate1 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. The meaning of symbols can change over time.
And I'm afraid the flag has really become hijacked by the neocons movement. Are people throughout the world relieved to see it anymore? Do we bring about peace, security, and stability through our missions in this world? Not anymore. I think some of us have given up on the symbol, but our loyalty isn't to a piece of cloth. It is to our fellow Americans who respect life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
67. May I Suggest
pop artist Jasper Johns' Flag? He simply took the colors & replaced them with their complements: red became green, white became black, blue became orange.

See: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/post/ho_69.701.2.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Suggested Reading...
Edited on Sun Sep-16-07 09:09 PM by roamer65
"The Trial of Henry Kissinger" by Christopher Hitchens. It's a very enlightening book and well documented.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. thank you, I read it some time back.
What I read didn't cause me to no longer believe in the ideals of our forefathers. We have lost our way, and must find the courage to re-take the road to freedom. The thieves and evil doers should not be allowed take away our hope.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. I agree. To turn your face is to accept defeat
I'm not ready to do that yet. The meaning of the flag has not changed, even if the intent of those flying it has.

But as the sig says, defiance is a virtue. I would not pledge by rote in school - it cheapens it, deeply. I will not share hte pledge or anthem with someone who I know to be a rightard - I simply stare them in the eye
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Evil doers?
:rofl:

Welcome to DU! Enjoy your stay!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
60. The repugs and ** are evil doers and thieves, which I believe is whom the poster
was referring too. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Upside Down Flag
Flora, it's a signal of distress.

And no one has to salute a flag representing a country that exists in name only.

Welcome to DU. And you'll have to get used to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
57. You believe in a piece of cloth and a bad song?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. right there with you
and I always refuse the pledge of allegiance, not just for the "Under God" part. A forced pledge is no pledge at all. Our gov't has to earn it's loyalty and respect and they squandered that capital long ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools."
Schopenhauer

Something I gave up on after Kent State and My Lai.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. It is the most foolish of passions, isn't it?
Really, if you think about it, why the need for patriotism in the 21st century? We should have a global view instead of an isolated nationalistic view.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Amazing courage, to refuse to enable the lie anymore.
I salute HIM.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. I was there at the VFP Convention
There wasn't a dry eye in the house when this veteran spoke. It was very touching.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
34. Man, that's a humdinger!
What a statement. A keeper. AND a heartbreaker of the first order. It pains me to no end - to realize that I feel the same way about MY flag, too; MY national anthem, too; MY country, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
35. Piss on ALL flags!
I am a citizen of the planet Earth...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. Here ya go!
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
62. What a beautiful flag!
I love it! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #41
78. Ya know, I was thinking of that one
as an exception...

Thanks...and back at ya' :toast: :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
68. Who issues your passport? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #68
79. Irrelevant (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. It's only irrelevant because you have no answer
You say you're a citizen of the world, but know you need a country to provide documents to travel freely. Once again facts outweigh grandiose, delusional thoughts.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I recognize NO country.
Edited on Tue Sep-18-07 12:30 PM by ProudDad
I salute NO flags.

I pay NO allegiance to any phony construct as a nation-state (or corporation).

I do not willingly support any group of proto-criminals who style themselves as superordinate over us mere citizens of the Earth. Since I'm relatively poor, I don't even pay income taxes to the Great Satan...


I can also be murdered by the agents of one of these bogus entities. I can be "prevented from traveling" by their stooges if I don't carry some kind of bogus document issued by these criminals. Big fucking deal...

I'm still a citizen of the Earth. I am joined to the Earth, the totality of this planet and its creatures not to some bogus, temporary fantasy called a "nation"...

---------

You can bow down to your masters and lick and caress their nether regions in your small world of abject obedience to "authority" if you wish, I choose not to...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Then I guess you don't vote
for anyone running in this "phony construct of a nation-state" we call America? How can you call yourself a Democrat and proclaim you're voting for Kucinich?

Also, you consider a passport a "bogus document issued by criminals"? Does that mean everyone holding a passport is complicit with some crime?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
37. Bush calls on Congress to make protection of the flag law of the land
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3485522

TRANSCRIPT

President Bush Addresses the 89th Annual National Convention of the American Legion

August 28, 2007


......I appreciate your efforts to honor the American flag. There are those who say the flag is just a piece of cloth. That's not the view of those who bled for it and saw it drape the caskets of some of our finest men and women. It was the American flag that we planted proudly on Iwo Jima, that first graced the silver surface of the moon. The country is careful to protect many things because of what they symbolize. Surely we can find a way to show equal respect for the symbol that our soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines and Coast Guard's men and women have risked their lives for -- the flag of our nation. So today I join the Legion in calling on the United States Congress to make protection of the flag the law of our land. (Applause.)

ALSO TRANSCRIPT LEAVES OUT BLESS IN
God Bless America







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
53. Yeah *
Let's protect that flag so you can piss on it some more. Would you like some extra constitution TP while you're at it?

:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
38. Great Post
I refuse to fly the stars & stripes. When I do put a flag out on holidays it is an historical one that shows the snake with the words "Don't Tread On Me".

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flora Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. I'm so happy you enjoy the freedom to do so.
Many do not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. Freedom is a funny thing
If it goes away when you disapprove, it isn't freedom, is it?

You may want to read about Shay's rebellion. The roots of this crisis are very deep indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
76. Yes, I am as well
And because I choose to fly another American Flag of historical significance (from a rebellion from tyranny) does not mean I have given up on this country. I have given up on the regime that is allegedly running it now and trampling upon many of the freedoms guaranteed under The Constitution.

Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
39. personally
I came to the same conclusion just after September 11th.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
43. Happy Constitution Day!
The US Constitution is 220 years old today! B-)

The Pledge of Allegiance is only 115 years old.

As Americans, we should be proud of our Constitution.

When our Constitution is under attack - we should defend it!

The flag belongs to all Americans.

It does not belong to the GOP.

As a question of principle, I respect the right of anyone not to salute the flag.

But in practice - I hate it when the right-wing question our patriotism.

"Liberty And Justice For All" :patriot:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BridgeTheGap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
44. Reminds me of my brother's funeral (killed in action in Vietnam) USMC
His un-opened casket was drapped with the U.S. flag. I noticed that the flag was actually dirty. I went over and sat next to my uncle, a decorated WWII veteran (D-Day, severly wounded two weeks later). "Did you notice that the flag was dirty?" I asked. My uncle replied: "Yes, I did. Very symbolic, don't you think?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
46. TO ALL MY BROTHERS...(AND FLORA)..... 8^)
HANG THE FLAG UPSIDE DOWN? ITS A CHOICE... NOT A BAD ONE
IGNOTE THE SINGING? ANOTHER CHOICE
NO PLEDGE? ANOTHER CHOICE


BUT HERE IS WHERE CHOICE SHOULD END.....

WHEN SENATOR CRAIG HOLDS HIS FIRST MEET AND GREET AT THE MINNEAPOLIS AIRPORT IN 2008 FOR THE GOP CONVENTION...

(OK...SAD JOKE)

BUT THERE IS A CONVENTION COMING TO THE TWIN CITIES IN 2008 AND THE TIME TO PREPARE FOR ACTIVISM IS NOW...
MAYBE TRAFFIC WILL STALL IN THE CITY BEST KNOWN FOR POOR HIGHWAYS AND TERRIBLE RUSHHOURS...
MAYBE THE CONVENTION CENTER WILL BE SURROUNDED BY PROTESTS...
MAYBE AL FRANKIN WILL DROP IN FOR A SPEECH OR FIVE...

MAYBE ALL OF THE CHEAP-LABOR WORKERS THEY PLAN TO HAVE SERVING FOOD AND CLEANING HOTELS.... WON'T!!!

BOW YOUR HEADS----- LET US "PREY"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thetaoofterri Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
47. I'm Speechless, too...
and a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wow!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
49. In case anyone isn't familiar: I Will Fight No More Forever
1877

I WILL FIGHT NO MORE FOREVER

(Surrender Speech)

by Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce

I WILL FIGHT NO MORE FOREVER -

I am tired of fighting.

Our chiefs are killed.

Looking Glass is dead.

Toohulhulsote is dead.

The old men are all dead.

It is the young men who say no and yes.

He who led the young men is dead.

It is cold and we have no blankets.

The little children are freezing to death.

My people, some of them,

Have run away to the hills

And have no blankets, no food.

No one know where they are-

Perhaps they are freezing to death.

I want to have time to look for my children

And see how many of them I can find.

Maybe I shall find them among the dead.

Hear me, my chiefs, I am tired.

My heart is sad and sick.

From where the sun now stands

I will fight no more forever. - -

THE END
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. Too bad most of them probably died anyway
The justice of America seems blind but to financial gain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #49
75. Beautiful. Sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
50. Beautifully expressed. K&R nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
56. That means I will fight twice as hard to reclaim my flag!
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
64. i never looked on the flag
as he said. just a lump of cloth misused.

but the principles it STANDS for is the constitution. THAT is MY flag. and georgie has been shredding it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
65. On the one hand, I know what this vet is saying.
On the other hand, when I think back through U.S. history, I know there has NEVER been a time when this country operated without a large black mark. Think about the extermination of Native Americans, the genocide of slavery, the rounding up of Japanese-Americans during WWII, Jim Crow laws, the Vietnam war, CIA assassinations of elected officials in other countries who were unfriendly to U.S. corporate domination, etc. etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
66. :cry:
:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
69. I won't let any impotent little chimp ruin the flag for me.
I get his point, but it's our flag, not theirs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. WOW!
:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
72. Wait a minute. Did he acknowledge stolen elections?
THANK YOU SIR. Not to diminish his powerful, disheartening speech, it is nice to have people remind us that our president is illegitimate. ALL of our present nightmares stem from those stolen elections. Remember that.

On that note, I am not going crazy. Our country is turning to shyte if a proud veteran will no longer salute the flag. And with Pelosi's and Conyers's complacency, someone may darn well invent American flag toilet paper.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
73. Charles Powell's words remained me of an Art Hoppe moment
Art Hoppe (1926 - February 1, 2000) was a popular columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle for more than 40 years. He was known for satirical and allegorical columns that skewered the self-important. Many columns featured whimsical characters such as expert-in-all-things Homer T. Pettibone and a presidential candidate named Nobody. Occasionally, Hoppe reined in his humor for poignant columns on serious topics, such as this one:

TO ROOT AGAINST YOUR COUNTRY



Arthur Hoppe
March 5, 1971

The radio this morning said the Allied invasion of Laos had bogged down. Without thinking, I nodded and said, "Good."

And having said it, I realized the bitter truth: Now I root against my own country.

This is how far we have come in this hated and endless war. This is the nadir I have reached in this winter of my discontent. This is how close I border on treason:

Now I root against my own country.

How frighteningly sad this is. My generation was raised to love our country and we loved it unthinkingly. We licked Hitler and Tojo and Mussolini. Those were our shining hours. Those were our days of faith.

They were evil; we were good. They told lies; we spoke the truth. Our cause was just, our purposes noble, and in victory we were magnanimous. What a wonderful country we are! I loved it so.

But now, having descended down the torturous, brutalizing years of this bloody war, I have come to the dank and lightless bottom of the well: I have come to root against the country that once I blindly loved.

I can rationalize it. I can say that if the invasion of Laos succeeds, the chimera of victory will dance once again before our eyes -- leading us once again into more years of mindless slaughter. Thus, I can say, I hope the invasion fails.

But it is more than that. It is that I have come to hate my country's role in Vietnam.

I hate the massacres, the body counts, the free fire zones, the napalming of civilians, the poisoning of rice crops. I hate being part of My Lai. I hate the fact that we have now dropped more explosives on these scrawny Asian peasants than we did on all our enemies in World War II.

And I hate my leaders, who, over the years, have conscripted our young men and sent them there to kill or be killed in a senseless cause simply because they can find no honorable way out -- no honorable way out for them.

I don't root for the enemy. I doubt they are any better than we. I don't give a damn anymore who wins the day. But because I hate what my country is doing in Vietnam, I emotionally and often irrationally hope that it fails.

It is a terrible thing to root against your own country. If I were alone, it wouldn't matter. But I don't think I am alone. I think many Americans must feel these same sickening emotions I feel. I think they share my guilt. I think they share my rage.

If this is true, we must end this war now -- in defeat, if necessary. We must end it because all of Southeast Asia is not worth the hatred, shame, guilt and rage that is tearing Americans apart. We must end it not for those among our young who have come to hate America, but for those who somehow manage to love it still.

I doubt that I can ever again love my country in that unthinking way that I did when I was young. Perhaps this is a good thing.

But I would hope the day will come when I can once again believe what my country says and once again approve of what it does. I want to have faith once more in the justness of my country's causes and the nobleness of its ideals.

What I want so very much is to be able once again to root for my own, my native land.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Reminds me of Chief Joseph's surrender speech
http://www.4literature.net/Chief_Joseph/I_Will_Fight_No_More_Forever/

1877

I WILL FIGHT NO MORE FOREVER

(Surrender Speech)

by Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce

I WILL FIGHT NO MORE FOREVER -

I am tired of fighting.

Our chiefs are killed.

Looking Glass is dead.

Toohulhulsote is dead.

The old men are all dead.

It is the young men who say no and yes.

He who led the young men is dead.

It is cold and we have no blankets.

The little children are freezing to death.

My people, some of them,

Have run away to the hills

And have no blankets, no food.

No one know where they are-

Perhaps they are freezing to death.

I want to have time to look for my children

And see how many of them I can find.

Maybe I shall find them among the dead.

Hear me, my chiefs, I am tired.

My heart is sad and sick.

From where the sun now stands

I will fight no more forever. - -

THE END
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 08th 2024, 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC