I can't imagine being a child in school today .

[blues90]

Or the parent of one . They have to deal with no child left behind and shootings and gangs and so much impossible stuff .

When I went to school we could walk the mile alone without worry and the only threat was a school bully which was my biggest concern other than failing a test .

It started to become more crowded in high school in 1964 but nothing like I see now .

Freezing at the bus stop in Jan in Illinois was nothing compared to now days .

How much this country has changed for the worst is just amazing and horrid all at the same time .

[acmejack]

1. Hasn't every generation made this claim?

Not that I don't totally agree with you. I know from past dialog that we are close to the same age & I cannot imagine trying to get a decent education today. The only good thing would be computers, in our day for me, it was the school library.

[blues90]

2. I can only go by what my parents told me

They of course had it more difficult as my father would say but in reality schools my father went to were some of the same ones I attended in chicago . Overall things were not so different for me , perhaps better in some ways .

We may have had a few situations where you may get beaten up as I did but shot not likely . We had a better chance of at least attending a community college for free in some cases . We had music classes and art .

[Deja Q]

10. Well, from the 1950s onward, yes...

But looking at older media, patterns become recognizable. Never mind how the Beatles were hated by some (as if professing love is bad? And I doubt the nay-sayers of the time thought McCartney was writing songs solely to make a vain profit...)

Anything from the Beatles (pre-dopehead years, 1962-1964/5) are just mushy love songs that stay at a very respectable level.

Obviously I'm not posting lyrics to any of today's "love" songs. It's utter filth.

Or even certain ones from the mid-90s, good grief...

[blues90]

14. It's true , not that I'm a prude ,however

There is a point where things can go too far .

All the crotch grabbing or almost nude singers really takes the music to an extreme . I can't call this progress or necessary .

It got so bad that even though at first this was needed by untalented video/music acts but soon even the talented acts began this trend .

Everyone began talking about censorship crowding freedom of expression .

Well where does one draw the line , now it seems what is legal , ie , not a live filmed murder is about all that is not allowed other than actual sexual acts .


I don't really know what to expect anylonger but I do feel we have gotten way off course with what is considered freedom of expression and what is acceptable and what catagory music belongs in .

I don't feel the home tv set should be the stage for all , here we have computer access and tv cable lockouts where one would think if one is an adult and seeks adult entertainment then get in the damn car and go visit such a place .

Perhaps I am just old school but I don't need twisted stimulation far beyond the norm .

I suppose the imagination has died and now we need to be entertained by someone elses imagination reguardless of just how twisted it may be , being sarcastic here .

[femmocrat]

3. There are many positives as well!

The best change I see is that children are no longer paddled, smacked around, and humiliated. Discipline is very child-friendly now. While this can be a drawback when they get to middle school, it is much better in elementary schools now. Children with behavioral problems are carefully monitored and given a lot of help in adjusting, IMO. I think teachers receive much better training in classroom management now compared to when I was an education major.

The flip side of that is that children know their "rights" and can become very defiant, especially in the older grades. But overall, I believe it is better to treat children with kindness and understanding.

Another huge improvement is the use of technology. It is everywhere. This generation cannot imagine schools without computers.

While I do not teach in an urban district, I have heard that safety inside the schools is greatly improved with all the security measures. Unfortunately, the surrounding neighborhoods sometimes have huge problems that spill over into the schools.

In ten or twenty years, these will be the "good old days" for the Millenium Generation! LOL

[blues90]

6. The worst I saw as far as punishment was

Having to stand in the corner or staying after school maybe having what was called detention which was a study hall you were forced to sit in instead of gym class .

Computers my help , I can't really compare this . I did'nt mind books or the library because it was an experience and a community of sorts .

I prefer what I had compared to today . Most all of the teachers were interested and motivated and made the class feel the same way . This was just regular public school . If a student was a problem their parents were called to the school and if they could not control the problem then the parents had to remove the child from school . It was not the schools problem to be responsible for the students bad acts .

[femmocrat]

19. What makes you think that teachers today are not interested and motivated?

And that their classes don't feel the same way?

BTW, we still have detention. And in-school suspension, as well as out-of-school suspension. And discipline hearings and parents are still called in for conferences. None of this has changed. In addition, we now have alternative education for repeat offenders and truancy problems.

The student is still held responsible for his/her "bad acts," believe me. My point was that it is much more humane today, IMO... no more corporal punishment or name-calling, swearing at kids, etc. That stuff had no place in school and really didn't make the schools a better place. I wonder how many children were permanently damaged by mistreatment at the hands of teachers and administrators. My guess is way too many.

[blues90]

21. Not exactly what I said .

I was simply refering to my experience in school way back when , all i have as present reference would be hearing the teachers in a middle school next to were I worked . But I made no comparision , not that I'm aware of , didn't mean to imply this .

I still have never seen teachers swear at children or hit them even in the 50's . I did not go to the best schools either , not to say it never happened , I just never witnessed this all the 12 years I went to school .

[Deja Q]

12. What if the cessation of condine action in turn helped create today's problems?

And there were many neurotypical children at school who did more abusive things than most of the 'behaviorally disturbed'. Some things of which included disturbing such behaviorally disturbed children...

It was aggravating to see the local classroom punk, circa 1988, wearing the heavy metal t-shirt... he had more than one, but the Metallica one with the slogan "Metal up your ass tour" was by far the most edifying in terms of how devolving our society was becoming at the time... Lord knows what it's like now... especially when they have metal detectors in place at the school featuring that animal with his t-shirts.

I'm sorry if I'm not liberal enough in this issue, but I believe the threat and necessary use of 'wrist-slapping' (whatever) should return.

My parents, very normal and adjusted people, saw their peers slapped... for JUST CHEWING GUM or not having their outfit on proper.

Lord knows what they would do if they, in 1988, saw that animal with his t-shirt on, don't try to defend him or the filth he was wearing.

My gripe isn't aimed at those with real problems. As long as administrators put the right people in the right places, that's great.

As with the media, how much further does the envelope get pushed before it's too late to put the letter back into it?

[mwb970]

4. My niece was amazed to hear there were no school shootings in the 60s.

She also thinks our music and TV shows were better. Right on both counts! (She even likes the old commercials on my sitcom videotapes.)

Can you imagine being 13, like she is, facing a whole lifetime in post-Bush America? It gives me the shivers.

[acmejack]

5. No I really can't.

There was a lot less personal privacy intrusion then, too. No drug tests or only for opiates! Not nearly as many cops, a lot more places to have privacy, less high tech methods to violate it.

[Deja Q]

9. Post-Media America...

Bush can't do anything to stop TV filth because everybody will rant "freedom of speech!" Nor could any Republican. Or any Democrat.

The media knows pushing shredding the envelope is profitable...

And that's all people care about anymore.

Bill O'Reilly can host all the FOX specials about how the media promotes violence or lewdity or whatever else all he wants. The no-spin truth is that he's too much a coward to say the truth about what sells. And what sells is the garbage he's trying to sound all high and mighty about. It's a dilemma... more of an impasse, actually...

Croc tears, Bill, croc tears. And you know the truth as well. The MEDIA COMPANIES that hire the vermin, allowing that garbage "messages" to get across is the core problem. And you can't say it. And by not doing so you ruin your own credibility.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. I think your music was certainly better, TV shows is a mixed bag

Most of the music I listen to is rock from the 60's and 70's as well as more contemporary artists that still make music in that genre.

Some TV shows from that era I still do enjoy. Mash, I Love Lucy, Bewitched, and some others I do enjoy. But the humor in old cartoons isn't particularly funny in my view. Family Guy and The Simpsons are simply funnier than the cartoons that they used to show from my perspective.

Also I think that House, Chicago Hope, and the early seasons of ER beat General Hospital by a mile although you could argue that I'm comparing drama to soap opera but dramas do include the romantic elements of a soap opera.

I could name numerous examples but I think there key thing about television is that with the advent of cable and shows running 24/7 there's simply so much more on now then there was in the 1960's. There is still good television today but in order to fill hundreds of channels 24/7 there is inevitably going to be tons of crap on TV.

[SmokingJacket]

18. Humor changes over time -- there's no way that *old* humor

could ever be as funny as new humor -- at least to young people. Older people might find older humor more funny.

But there are other ways to compare eras... a sense of security was greater in the old days, except of course we were panicked over nuclear war.

[PassingFair]

23. Perception. The Good 'Ol Days. Life has ALWAYS been dangerous...

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm

Happened right here in Michigan, and NO ONE seems to remember it!

The Bath School Disaster


"On May 18, 1927, 45 people, mostly children, were killed and 58 were injured when disgruntled and demented school board member Andrew Kehoe dynamited the new school building in Bath, Michigan out of revenge over his foreclosed farm due in part to the taxes required to pay for the new school."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Yes, I do feel sorry for kids today

Most of them can't walk to school anymore

They're over-programmed, with sports, more sports, and a few non-sports activities, just for balance, so they don't have much time to play outside (if their parents aren't paranoid about letting them play outside), read on their own, play imaginatively, or just daydream.

In school, they're tested to death and have to put up with disruptive kids in their classrooms

Many of them have negligent parents, who have not bothered to teach them civilized behavior

Many others have over-indulgent, smothering parents, who don't give them any space. (When I see teens or college students who are in constant cell phone contact with their parents, I shudder. When do they grow up and learn to muddle through life on their own instead of having Mom and Dad smooth the way all the time?)

Many receive Stuff instead of attention

Many have parents who are so wrapped up in their personal soap operas of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness, criminality, toxic significant others, any of the above, all of the above, that it's a wonder they even live to be teenagers.

[Deja Q]

11. And many parents don't have to time to raise kids because they can't afford to stay home

Or have to bring the kids along at 10PM to a store, with the kids coughing and hacking... Good God, it's atrocious.

Not to discount anything you're saying and what I'm saying is another facet in the grand scheme...

Maybe the tearing down of America as we know it is a good thing and the order replacing it will be a thoughtful one... though if it is to be "family friendly", keeping a populace of slaves working the entire doo-dah-day isn't going to help...

Who knows anymore?

Just gotta go along for the ride. Suicide doesn't cut it anymore, even if half the songs sing about it... :crazy:

[Deja Q]

8. When somebody TRIES to do something, they always get shot down...

And maybe it's time to tell those who say "Kids can wear (whatever), it's their riiiiiiiiiiiiight", amongst other things that allow and condone shootings and gangs and such to bugger off.

Sorry to be un-PC, but something stern has got to be done at some point.

[MedleyMisty]

13. school

I graduated from high school in 1999. My teachers were beginning to grumble then about teaching to the test.

Now it's an all-out roar. I've never heard anyone praise No Child Left Behind, which is why I think it would be a good starting place for dialogue with a centrist or rightist. Especially if they have kids currently in school.

As far as violence - depends on what school you go to. I went to public schools in a rural area of northwestern North Carolina. There was the occasional fight but nothing out of the ordinary.

As far as school shootings - I don't think you can look at them and say, "OMGZ, every single person who is younger than me sux!!11!!" You have to look at the lives of the individual shooters and into their personal motivations and issues. Columbine happened while I was in high school. Most of us thought the shooters were people who didn't fit in and were bullied and picked on and had guns available and had been taught to resort to violence. And we thought that the paranoia among adults was extremely excessive and that all their new rules were silly and draconian.

I was bored silly and never learned study habits or discipline or what a challenge was or anything, which certainly hasn't helped me in the real world. Heh, I slept through physical science freshman year (it was the first class of the day and the teacher had a monotonous voice) and still kept up a 100 average.

But like I said, I got out before Bush. I hang out on Sims 2 sites, which means I see some discussion from young teenagers. Can't say that there's any real difference socially, but they aren't even getting the rudimentary education I got, with teaching to the test and the trend towards eliminating subjects other than reading or math.

[XanaDUer]

16. Nor can I.

I now often think of the song Maurice Chevalier sings in "Gigi"; I'm Glad I'm Not Young Anymore.

I'm 41 now.

[Ilsa]

17. My second grader has homework every night.

No worries about guns yet, but NCLB is a hassle.

I worry about the crowded high school and totally unrule crap happening there. I hope there is an alternative for us later.

[bleedingheart]

20. a lot has improved since I was a kid

I live in the same blue collar town I was raised, although more white collar people live here now..

When I was a kid, the other kids were rough. What do I mean by rough...the kind of kids who spit on you, punched you and tripped you as went about your own business.

I went to the same school system that my kids do...and it is a much better experience for them than it was for me.

But that is just in my area and I can't speak for the other areas.

However what I do want to say is that parental involvement in the district is necessary.

Every failing school system I have ever seen locally can be traced back to a community that either gave up or is fiscally troubled.
Now back when my parents and their parents were in schools...people were dirt poor but the majority of people knew that education was a key to a better life...perhaps not the perfect life but a better one....and even without the financial means, their parents did their part to help.

So what to do...run for school board, get involved...lobby your local officials for money and if they won't help find a candidate (perhaps yourself) that will help...

I have canvassed neighborhoods with the bad schools and when the parents don't even care to vote...do you think their elected officials think they need to do anything to help?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. You're right about that

I wonder how many of the parents who whine about wanting vouchers ever bother to vote in school board elections.

Democrats should spread the word that schools in America are locally controlled, and that if they want to improve their schools, they can do it with the right school board.

It's funny how every college town I've ever heard of has had excellent public schools. That's because the college professor parents insist on it.