Dems have plenty of ammunition against Petraeus

[cali]

They need to use it.There's the GAO report, the new independent report commissioned by Congress that states that the Iraqi National Police Force is so corrupt and sectarian that it should be disbanded, the high Iraqi death toll, the 4.2 million Iraqi refugees and more. It shouldn't be hard to slam the sainted General Petraeus, and they damned well better do it.

[Beerboy]

1. Who 'sainted' Petraeus?

Everyone knows it's all going to just be spin. Sen. Schumer of NY laid the groundwork today, explaining how Anbar province wasn't pacified because of the 'surge', but in spite of it. The U.S. is only exacerbating problems in Iraq and needs to leave yesterday.

[cali]

2. For months the MSM has been playing up

how greatly respected Petraeus is by both sides of the aisle, and comments from one Senator do not a united and coherent response, make.

[Beerboy]

4. Petraeus did receive a vote from the U.S. Senate,

to confirm, but everyone I know knows it's a sham. This whole GOP war is a disastrous failure for American national security and relations with our international allies, if any. Sen. Schumer is right, the military is the wrong tool to use for intractable problems in Iraq. The whole thing is a huge fraud upon hard-working people paying their taxes.

[still_one]

6. nevertheless, the fraud will work... /nt

[FreakinDJ]

8. moment of clarity

"The whole thing is a huge fraud upon hard-working people paying their taxes."

If this point was driven home to the American people the war would be over tomorrow

[still_one]

5. Agreed, but as usual, you have those from Democratic side of the aisle

already spliting the vote.

The reality is, all they have to do is quote Petraeus from his own book, why we will ultimately fail in Iraq

There is no political solution with us involved. Neither side trusts us, and our actions to control 80% of the Iraqii oil gives them every reason why they shouldn't

[still_one]

3. I doubt the Dems will stand united on this, and will split, some saying progress

while others saying no

Besides the GAO, they are also using body counts as progress. Visions of Viet Nam, and light at the end of the tunnel

We will see what happens, but where in 2006 I felt we had a good chance in 2008 to take back the executive branch, along with Congress, I now have my doubts. Unless, the Democratic strategy changes from one of hoping the republicans will self-destruct, to standing up with actions, 2008 will be quite demoralizing

So what have the Democrats done the past 6 years:

1. Many helped pass the IWR because they were afraid they would be labelled as weak
2. Many helped pass the patriot act, because they felt they would be labelled as weak on terrorism
3. Many helped pass the bankrupcy bill
4. They helped confirm Alito and Roberts, even though it was very clear that both those nominations believe that corporations should be treated as individuals

If the Democrats couldn't even stand together on those issues, how can we expect to do well in 2008?

[cali]

7. if you think that dems will lose

Congress or the Presidency, I think you're wrong. First of all, in the Senate the repukes have many more seats up than dems; they have 2 confirmed retirements, in VA and CO. Udall has no effective opposition, and Mark Warner would be the prohibative favorite in VA. In NH, polls show former Guv Shaheen beating the tar out of Sununu. Norm Coleman's in trouble in MN. Seriously, the odds of the dems picking up Senate seats are very strong.

In the House it's difficult to regain a majority after the opposing party has held power for only 2 years, and many things stand in the way for repubs in the House.

The republicans are tremedously divided over the presidential candidates, and Fred ain't gonna change that.

Despite the dems being divided, they're in a good position.

[still_one]

11. What I meant to say is I am not as confident anymore of a victory

Yes, we should win the Senate for the reasons you gave, however, in 2006 we won on the basis of the Iraq war. In my view up to now we haven't made a particulary strong showing on that issue. In 2006 we should NOT have taken back Congress. The republicans were the incumbants then, and we defied the odds and won.

True the republicans are divded on their candidates, but they are much more loyal than the independent Democrats are. I agree, thompson is much ado about nothing, I am much more concerned about guiliaani, not only because of some Democrats who may swing his way, but also because he may attract independents

I am glad to hear that coleman's in trouble, I really hope Al wins. I cannot understand why Minnesota would have even voted him in. Minnesota used to be as blue as they come.

Also, a devious thing is occurring here in California. The republican are putting on the ballot a proposition where the electoral votes will not be all or nothing. In other words, they are trying to split the vote, and if that passes, we have a problem. I am not sure how to read California anymore because of the recall of Davis, and the election of Arnold to govenor. The one thing in our favor is the young people, and I sure hope labor understands who is more on their side?

I hope your assessement is right, if for nothing else than the Supreme Court. Stevens is holding on for that reason, and if we lose the WH in 2008, I have no doubt that Roe V Wade will be overturned, and our country will be put back 40 years at least, especially in regard to civil rights

[cali]

14. About that CA thing;

wouldn't such a vote in favor of dividing CA's EVs face a strong legal challenge?

[still_one]

15. I don't know, I hope it doesn't even get that far. /nt

[ThomWV]

9. Petraeus is not our enemy, the Whitehouse Report he will present is the problem

He is just the messenger, a spineless one if he does the Whitehouse bidding, but he's been demoted to the position of a messenger none the less.

[cali]

10. Perhaps, but he's also been exhalted in the press

as this great, straight shooting man who won confirmation with an overwhelming bipartisan vote.

[still_one]

12. He may not be our enemy, but he is also looking to advance his career

as so many who stood silent were, as bush went into Iraq

[Robbien]

13. Reid has already said he will work with the GOP on extending the invasion

There is little hope the DC Dems will do anything but bow and scrape to the GOP.