Where was Fred Thompson when they drafted my ass?

[Elwood P Dowd]

He was a coward and draft dodger just like Rudy and Mitt and Bush and Cheney and Limbaugh and O'Lielly and Hastert and Lott and McConnell and all the other repukes except for McCain. My God, if we had a Gore/Clark ticket or a Clark/Webb ticket, could we have some fun with these fucking hypocrites.

[driver8]

1. Gore/Clark is my dream ticket.

They would have to rig a shit load of voting machines to beat Gore and Clark.

[calimary]

13. Mine as well!

Absolutely invincible, I'd think.

[Maine-ah]

24. ditto

[TahitiNut]

2. College deferments, 2 years dodging, then occupational deferment.

He graduated high school in 1960. He got his undergrad in 1964. He got his J.D. in 1967. He worked as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1969 to 1972. That leaves the years 1967 to 1969 ... and I was drafted in 1968.

[Elwood P Dowd]

4. Something smells.

I graduated from college in late 1969, and a few months later I was gone to the US Army for two years. The friends I knew who went on to law school had to join and serve later or be subject to the draft.

[JohnnyLib2]

5. Same here, ya old fella!

And when * sent the troops into Iraq, I turned to my wife and said,
"Jesus, it's Viet Nam all over again." :grr: :nuke:

[DemBones DemBones]

9. But he got married at 17 and she was pregnant so

he'd have had the fatherhood deferment, wouldn't have had to apply for the others, would he?

[TahitiNut]

46. That's probably true. They had 3 kids before he got his J.D.

:shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

68. I KNOW they ended the fatherhood deferment

when I was pregnant, just like they ended the grad school deferment the year my husband graduated from college.

"Must have been the right place at the wrong time."


I doubt that Fred got his first wife pregnant when they were in high school to avoid the draft. Not that many were being drafted then and getting your girlfriend pregnant didn't go over well with either set of parents in those days. They probably had to keep the marriage secret to stay in school but she'd have had to drop out when the pregnancy was obvious. And they probably had all 3 kids before the fatherhood deferment was ended, so it was probably a legit deferment, thought I'm sure he "had other priorities" like Cheney. W defending Texas against the Viet Cong is worse, IMO, since he got bumped up to the top of the list.

Now high schools give pregnancy tests, help the newly pregnant get on WIC and other programs, and have day care centers. Once when I was in the middle of teaching, a girl raised her hand. I called on her, asssuming she had a question about the class.

Instead, she said "Can I go to the clinic and get a pregnancy test?"

Ya think maybe we're enabling teenaged unwed pregnancies? :shrug:

[Lasher]

3. And where was Joe Lieberman when I was drafted?

Lieberman received an educational deferment from the Vietnam War draft when he was an undergraduate and law student from 1960 to 1967. Upon graduating from law school at 25, Lieberman qualified for a family deferment as he was already married and had one child.

Where were Bill Kristol, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, and Paul Wolfowitz?

These are people who bravely send other people's children off to die in yet another useless war but not a one of them had the guts to serve when their time came.

[LibDemAlways]

6. Kristol was on C-Span's Washington Journal one

morning and a caller asked him if he had ever served. He hemmed and hawed and then smugly came out with the laughable statement that he hadn't served in the military, but that didn't matter because he had served and was continuing to serve his country as "an author, editor, and commentator." If it had been possible to reach through the tv and strangle the bastard, I'd have been sorely tempted.

[dancingme]

36. I hope Crooks and Liars has that on tape

:toast:

[EFerrari]

7. Kick. When I read these posts, I don't know if I should feel grateful

you're here to post or mad as hell that our government is being run by a bunch of privileged f#cking cowards and scofflaws, or both or what. :grr:

[DemBones DemBones]

8. He got married when he was 17 and they had a baby

seven months later, IIRC; the dates are public knowledge.

There was a fatherhood deferment. They ended it when I was pregnant in 1969 so it didn't help my husband.

But Fred had a child long before then and there's no proof it was planned to dodge the draft. Dick and Lynne Cheney also had a child that got him a fatherhood deferment.

Fred could have enlisted but it might well have been a hardship on his wife and child. They had two more children (one now deceased) and maybe they had them all while he was in college and law school. He'd have qualified for student deferments, too, possibly a deferment for law school, depending on when he entered law school.

Grad school deferments ended in 1968. I don't know about law school or med school since that was of no interest to us.

[Hardrada]

10. I had a running battle with my draft board from 1966 to 1969.

They gave me some grad school deferment time and then kept sending me to take physicals practically between semesters and also issued various threats, i.e., prison time etc. I finally convinced them I was not interested in their war and they gave me CO status and ordered me off to work two years in hospitals. I ended up with that in 1972 and of course soon the war would be gone. And Nixon too.

[cgrindley]

11. Dodging the Vietnam draft was NOT cowardice

Dodging the Vietnam draft was one of the only ethical choices during that time period. Rudy and Mitt and Bush and Cheney may be evil... they may be bastards... they may be crazy (especially Mitt)... they may be assholes... but cowards? Never. That a person refused to go to Vietnam is only ever a good thing.

Let's not start trying to rewrite history. Vietnam was a pointless, useless war. Everyone who died there, died in vain. If a person managed to escape its clutches, good.

Bush, Cheney etc are certainly war-mongering hypocrites, but calling them cowards is more than a little foolish as it implies that it was brave to go to Vietnam, that Vietnam was some sort of required action in order to prove manhood... it wasn't. Even covering yourself with shit like Ted Nugent was a more noble act than going to Vietnam.

[Kingshakabobo]

17. I guess you can't grasp the "chicken-hawk" concept.

George Bush thought the Viet Nam war was a fabulous idea - he actively avoided the draft, went AWOL and proceeded to strut around the Harvard campus wearing a leather flight jacket he had NO BUSINESS wearing.

[cgrindley]

20. So you're pissed about a leather flight jacket?

out of all the things to be angry about with bush. Who gives a shit about a leather flight jacket?

[eagler]

21. You really don't grasp the concept- There is a major difference between

those who tore up their draft cards, and left the country knowing they might never return, and those who joined the national guard to avoid service or who got several deferments because they were rich enough to stay in college for the duration.the latter are the chicken hawks. I guess I'm one of your flunkies because I did 2 tours.

[cgrindley]

48. My father in law hid in the guards

he wasn't rich or connected. I respect him tremendously for dodging service.

[Spazito]

56. Is your father-in-law a gung-ho supporter of the war now and

was he a gung-ho supporter of the war then while he "hid in the guards"? If so, he is a chicken-hawk, if not then he is not, imo.

[eagler]

58. That is the point exactly!

[cgrindley]

63. No, he still hates the Vietnam war

what makes you think that Bushit honestly thinks Vietnam was a good idea? Because he says so? Have you noticed that he has a little issue with the truth from time to time?

[Spazito]

67. Does he hate the Iraq war too?

As far as bush goes, yes, he loved the thought of Vietnam knowing his sorry ass would be protected and he would never have to go there. He is a sociopath.

[cgrindley]

71. Who doesn't?

I'm not even so sure that the Repukes wouldn't love to turn back the clock and have the whole damn thing not happen...

[Spazito]

73. Okay, I take that as a yes, he hates the Iraq war then?

Why not simply say yes or no? If your father-in-law was against the Vietnam and the Iraq war then he is not a chicken-hawk which was the original issue. Thompson, on the other hand, was supportive of the Vietnam war while using his family as an excuse not to serve, he is also a fan of the Iraq 'war' and is gung-ho on attacking Iran as well. He is the epitome of a chicken-hawk as opposed to your father-in-law.

[mitchtv]

22. simple really ;dodge a war you disagree with because

it's an illegal war of agression is one thing. If you think that same war is a great idea and everyone else should fight it, you are a motherfucking chickenhawk,

[JohnnyLib2]

32. Amen and amen. I wonder if the generation gap is

coming into this thread? I find that men who did not grow up with and never knew the draft just rarely can grasp the anger about chickenhawks.

The 60s were not all summers of love..............

[cgrindley]

49. Bush obviously didn't support the Vietnam war at the time

he's only pretending to support it now for political reasons. He's evil, not stupid.

[Beausoleil]

57. You really believe that?

"He admitted to me that to avoid the Vietnam draft, he had his dad -- he said 'Dad's friends' -- skip him through the long waiting list to get him into the Texas National Guard," Tsurumi said. "He thought that was a smart thing to do."

...


Tsurumi said Vietnam was a top topic among the 85 students in his class, when he was a visiting associate professor at Harvard from 1972 to 1976. He now teaches at Baruch College in New York.

"What I couldn't stand -- and I told him -- he was all for the U.S. to continue with the Vietnam War. That means he was all for other people, Americans, to keep on fighting and dying."

Tsurumi got to know Bush when the future president took his "Economics EAM" (Environmental Analysis for Management), a required two-semester class from the fall of 1973 to the spring of 1974, Bush's first year at Harvard's business school.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/13/bush.professor/

[Spazito]

59. Oh geez, you don't REALLY believe that, do you?

If so, well.....it explains a lot!

[cgrindley]

72. Of course he didn't support it

that war was kept going by a mere handful of old men. If half a dozen key figures had been rubbed out by whomever really killed Kennedy, the Vietnam War would have been settled in a matter of months.

[sarge43]

25. Q: "Who gives a shit about a leather flight jacket?"

A: The people who earned the right to wear the real deal.

[Orsino]

28. And the people duped by the Boy King's swagger...

...may have a little buyer's remorse now, too.

[sarge43]

44. I doubt it.

The duped true believers are so far up Denial they've passed the Third Cataract.

[cgrindley]

50. I don't know what to say

that's just... wow.

[sarge43]

54. Whatever. n/t

[Vickers]

29. If you avoided the draft, and now support war, you are a hypocrite.

And, right or wrong, as a veteran I do consider non-veteran war supporters cowards.

Sue me.

[TwilightGardener]

37. I do as well--if war is a great idea, it behooves you to get your ass over

there, or encourage your children to fight. Except for McCain and Paul, the GOP candidates are most certainly cowardly chickenhawks.

[sarge43]

43. Except Senator Curtis Hagel (NE-R)

US Army, Infantry, Nam '68. Not exactly a time consuming roll call.

[TwilightGardener]

45. You mean Chuck Hagel, who volunteered and has 2 Purple Hearts--he's my Senator. I left

him off because I don't think he's running for the R nomination, but he certainly deserves recognition.

[sarge43]

52. I thought his given name was Curtis

And yeah, anyone who did Nam in the mud, blood and beer infantry has earned a salute and thank you. As for running, he should. That would be pass the popcorn entertainment; the chickenhawks would wet their pants.

[TwilightGardener]

55. Given name is Charles--and I agree with you, he should have run--

would have been nice to see a very credible/respected war critic (apologies to Ron Paul) on the stage at the GOP debates.

[sarge43]

60. Yup

I can imagine the narrow eyed alert stare at one of the wannabees. "As we used to say in Charlie Company, 'Sir, you're talking out your ass.'" Just for primary season, I would consider switching to Independent.

[cgrindley]

51. Hypocrite yes, coward no

and it also depends on the war... dodging WWI = justified... dodging WWII = cowardice

there are no hard and fast rules

[TwilightGardener]

53. No--deliberately dodging a war that you believe is just is the DEFINITION of cowardice.

[cgrindley]

64. WHY DO ALL OF YOU ASSUME BUSH IS TELLING THE TRUTH?

He's lying. He doesn't think Vietnam was a good idea. No one does. He's only saying that it was so that he cannot be accused of dissing on the troops.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. ROFLMAO

Why are you defending Bush?

[cgrindley]

69. I'm not defending Bush, I'm defending reality

every once in a while, someone has to defend reality around here. No one on earth actually thinks that America's involvement in the Vietnam war was a good thing. No one. No matter what they say in public, no one is that damn dumb. It was a failure and every single American who died there, died in vain. Everyone knows this. Even the right wing chickenhawks know this. Sure they're all full of bravado and big words, but if you could do a vulcan mind meld, you'd find that they are all lying.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. No you're not.

You're saying people who support a war but don't fight in it aren't cowards.

That's not reality, that's absurdity.

"No one on earth actually thinks that America's involvement in the Vietnam war was a good thing. No one."

Listen, kid, maybe you're too young to remember, but millions of people thought that Vietnam was a wonderful idea, and lots of people still do.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. Hypocrite yes, coward yes.

Not willing to get in a fight you yourself support? That's essentially the basic definition of the term cowardice.

[treestar]

30. But applying their own standards to them means they should go

The fatherhood deferment was perfectly legal. But a hawk should have wanted to go anyway. His wife and child being in danger and all that.

They beat that ancient drum of the warriors going off to defend the women and children from threat. So they ought to be against the fatherhood deferment. In their own emotionalized view of the world, they ought to be all for abolishing the fatherhood deferment. In fact, to them, isn't it the first thing a father/husband wants to do - go to kill the enemy to protect his own? They should look upon the fatherhood deferment as a sissy's way out, let alone use it.

[cgrindley]

70. Actually, that's a dumb argument

I am in favor of people training to be hairdressers and plumbers and cardiac surgeons, but if I were drafted into the study of those areas, I would do my best to get a deferment.

[Jacobin]

35. Yep. Well said

If there had been more willing and pliable cannon fodder for the Viet Nam debacle, it would still be going on.

[razzleberry]

12. a sorry ass draft dodger

who wants to see professionalism?
just askfor the info, I'll PM ya

[SeattleGirl]

14. He apparently had better things to do.

Like avoiding combat.

Let's hear it for the chickenhawks!

:puke:

[Swamp Rat]

15. In a galaxy far far away...

[SeattleGirl]

16. S R!

Great graphic.

Hope you are doing okay!

[Swamp Rat]

19. I'm alive

That helps. :D

I hope you are muito bem. :hug:

[Beerboy]

18. According to Wiki, Thompson spent the 60s:

In September 1959, at the age of 17, Thompson married Sarah Elizabeth Lindsey. Their son Frederick Dalton "Tony" Thompson Jr. was born in April 1960.<99> Another son and a daughter were born soon thereafter. While Thompson was attending law school, both he and his wife worked to pay for his education and support their three children.<15>
He's just another holy "Family Values-National Security" Republican. He's 100% fake, and that's what the test of the next election will come down to... which nominee will tell more convincing lies to get elected?
Fred spent the 60s avoiding everything about Vietnam, he's got a leg up already.

[treestar]

31. And when that wife got too old, he replaced her with the newer model!

In the early 60s, she worked to put him through law school! Now that it is her turn to reap the rewards, oops, she's not going to be the First Lady!

The hypocrisy of this man's life should make the freeps and fundies rabidly against him - yet they shower him with praise - showing just what hypocrites they actually are.

[tammywammy]

34. No he didn't

He was divorced and single for many years before he met Jeri.

[Virginia Dare]

39. He test drove quite a few first...n/t

[tammywammy]

40. Yep

apparently he was quite a ladies man. I don't see that myself, so go figure.

[Virginia Dare]

42. I can't say I do either, him or Rudy....n/t

[treestar]

61. How many times has he been married?

Another bit of deviation from rightwing freepoid requirements of Democrats!

[Hubert Flottz]

23. He plays a good ocifer though...

He'd prolly play a good pResident too...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. I knew lots of people who were against the Vietnam War and didn't want to fight it

because they were morally against it. Many did get out with "preexisting" medical conditions, "psychological" problems and student deferments. I didn't find it as dodging or cowardice. It was not supplying themselves as fodder, as a pawn, for others' madness.

What I do resent are those who support war, wanted other kids to die in war and yet not going because they had "better" things to do. That's where chicken hawk comes into play.

[Orsino]

27. He was Nixon's stooge.

He didn't have to dodge the draft.

[mdmc]

33. Probably support Barry Goldwater

just like our own AU H2O girlie...

[Virginia Dare]

38. Makin' babies with wife numero uno if I had to guess..

what do you know another hypocritical chickenhawk draft dodger throws his hat into the ring..we need another one of those like we need a hole in the head.

Also, with regard to your comment about Gore/Clark or Clark/Webb, I would support either of those tickets, but I thought the same thing about Kerry and look how successful the swiftboat campaign was...:mad:

[11 Bravo]

41. Same place he was when I attended the University of A Shau Valley.

No doubt attending meetings of the college Young Republicans club and bleating about how they supported the troops. It's funny, the only support I ever wanted was fire support, and none of those limp dicks was ever around to provide it.

[Catherine Vincent]

47. ...but what about Clinton?

:sarcasm:

[book_worm]

62. he plays a tough guy on TV but was a chicken hawk in real life.

figures.