mentally ill or injured?

[undergroundpanther]

I do not think most Mental illness is a chemical imbalance, but the effects of a social inequality/tolerance of abuse problem.


Trauma or PSTD is a psychiatric injury.Once called "shell shock" and it was seen as weakness something to be ashamed of.
http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/ww1.htm

War is a racket that benefits a few people greatly, yet our culture still tolerates the systemic injury of young peoples minds and brains by tolerating the abusive dynamics that justify war.And state control tactics..
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Stress if excessive past the point you can cope can and does injure people
http://www.tgorski.com/Terrorism/PTSD_effects_of_stress_on_the_brain_020121.htm#Study:%20Stress%20Takes%20Toll%20on%20Brain
http://www.tgorski.com/Terrorism/PTSD_effects_of_stress_on_the_brain_020121.htm#Stress%20-%20Long-term%20Biopsychosocial%20Effects
http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/ptsd.htm
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/08/22/p19001


Bipolar is one such"illness" touted to be caused by an invisible chemical imbalance.
There is no physical evidence of a chemical imbalance
Unlike diabetes where that physical chemical imbalance one can test for and see unlike certain mental illnesses that some claim are caused by invisable chemical imbalances,as the pharmaceutical industry tells us.

It is not a far stretch to consider "bipolar' might be another form of psychiatric injury.Just not recognized as such.
Here a person out of two people in the world who had 'bipolar symptoms' caused by brain injuries.
Brain injury has been shown to precipitate secondary bipolar affective disorders. Moreover, a few reports have shown some cases of rapid-cycling affective disorders after brain injury.
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/5/448
They used valproate to treat this person, but my point remains it was caused by an injury, not a 'chemical imbalance'.The thing that irks me about labeling mental illness as chemical imbalances is first a chemical imbalance implies it is no ones fault, that you are basically fucked up because of this imbalance which implies you were born "inferior" with a malfunctioning brain, or you are sick like a person with diabetes,so you must be kept on your psych drugs like a diabetic on insulin.
Diabetics do have a physical chemical imbalance their pancreas is malfunctioning,it can be tested and it's cause demonstrated.The mental illness chemical imbalance, is invisible.No tests exist to prove if you have this 'imbalance' or not, the diagnosis is based on vague criteria criteria that look at lot like trauma's aftereffects.. coincidence?"

The most devastating effects of traumatic brain injuries-
** depression, agitation and social withdrawal** -
are difficult to treat with medications, said Dr. Rohit Das, a Boston Medical Center neurologist who treats injured troops at the VA Boston Health care System."
http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread908.html

So what does the diagnostic criteria of manic depression look like?
http://www.seroquel.com/cbip/not/explore/bipolar-episodes.aspx
The diagnostic criteria for PSTD,
http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/ptsd.htm#DSM-IV%20Diagnostic%20criteria

Strikingly similar...if you just look at the behaviors one may observe without assuming a cause.
It's very easy to be misdiagnosed with all those symptoms looking so alike.I was misdiagnosed for years.
Here,PSTD looks like a concussion
http://www.ptsdforum.org/archive/index.php/t-908.html

When it's all made the patients problem and it's blamed on those misbehaving chemicals , there is no social causes to address really, because it is now it's no ones fault. It is..,a version of the ideology of biologic/genetic determinism in this notion that if you have a chemical problem you will always be less than human.. So society need not change the way it relates to people and it can go on not confronting the toxic inequality and all the other quite fixable but too profitable situations like poverty and abuse ,and ignore the bad beliefs like biological determinism, eugenics, and the fiction called normalcy that will go on unquestioned and unchallenged..and the powers that be whether it corporation state or family tyrant that fuck us all over in a million ways will be secure in their 'entitlements' and to continue the abuse of power.
http://www.iatrogenic.org/library/case.html
http://www.ptsdforum.org/archive/index.php/t-1539.html
http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2006/10/why_so_many_us_psych.html
http://www.mental-health-abuse.org/index.shtml
http://psychiatrized.org/Articles/psychTimes-KaiserCommentary.htm


Nami is an organization that pushes the"chemical imbalance bullshit big pharmacy was no longer permitted to claim on TV in their old drug ads for anti depressants.Nami infiltrates day programs,psych units,therapists and psychiatrists and psych survivor groups.
http://www.namipharma.org/
http://www.drugs.com/forum/latest-drug-related-news/nami-whoring-shrinks-drug-industry-31685.html


Nami because of the slanted view of the pharmaceutical companies who own it,appeals to parents who do not want to be seen as maybe having a hand in causing their child's issues. These parents like all parents want to believe that they are good parents too. But also on the other hand it's well known abusive family dynamics are something every family that has abuse dynamics going on hides and desperately wants to deny exists. The state also wants to deny it's part in tolerating and perpetuating the social dynamics of abuse, poverty and the social problems that inequality creates ,with this mental illness situation.Authoritarian sides of the state want to deny psychiatric injury exists or even causes disability to the injured party .Because the state and corporation by it's very structure and function at heart is a bully but sees it'self as a parent/authority.
http://ponerology.blogspot.com/

The state bullies young people into fighting the racket called war with poverty myths of heroism and deceptive advertising and when the young come back traumatized the state wants to blame the victim rather than get out of the war business.There are profits to be made and social controls to be gained off of silenced pain and misery of the wounded soul.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=war+is+a+racket&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/08/22/p19001
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Our society has a habit of tolerating and excusing abuse of it's less 'fortunate' and more vulnerable members including those injured by our social callousness and tolerance of abuse and the denial of this deadly dynamic.It confuses victim with the perpetrator and gives the perpetrator consideration they cannot be trusted to not exploit.It is far easier to do what the perpetrator demands which is simple silence and denial than to listen and take seriously the pain of the victims of abusers.Because to listen and take the victims seriously means we are responsible, for each others well being as much as we are responsible for our own.
Our actions and inactions when confronted with abuses of power.
http://www.ptsdforum.org/archive/index.php/t-1539.htm
http://www.tgorski.com/Terrorism/PTSD%20&%20Moral%20Sanction%20020122.htm
http://psychiatrized.org/Articles/SzaszCoercionasCure.htm

And the tolerance of abuse the sanctioning of coercion and inequality causes problems in individuals which reflect the problems of society in how we relate to differences and our cohesiveness.and when society is sick it causes pain in the least able to cope with the sickness that oppresses us all .It might be great for those who profit off pain but for those in pain, it just hurts.It hurts sometimes until you can't endure the stress..than.....
http://www.qcsr.uq.edu.au/template/Resources/Social%20Capital/Social%20Capital_Intro.htm
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/53/8/937

Long ago,Insanity was synonymous with unfitness for liberty.
The control freaks in this world fear ,a sane society that has been dehumanized by being called insane and angry at being blamed for not being able to cope with living oppressed ,finding it's voice,
ttp://www.qcsr.uq.edu.au/template/Resources/Social%20Capital/Social%20Capital_Intro.htm
crying out for justice!
http://psychiatrized.org/Articles/NoncompliantMentalPatientManifesto.htm
And fighting for it.

Find out if your shrink is a criminal...
http://www.psychcrime.org/psychcrimes/crimesearch3.asp

more...good stuff..

“First, what has been pathologized needs to be rehumanized. We need to reacquaint ourselves with those aspects of our humanity which - though not fitting neatly into the new world order - are in fact fully human. Next, we must rebel - a common sense rebellion.”Bruce Levine, A dissident shrink,one of my heroes...

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/issues/mental_health_index.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip/vocabofrape.html
http://welcomeworld.org/iHome.htm
http://www.mindfreedom.org/
http://writhesafely.wordpress.com/2006/05/26/dissident-psychiatry-for-a-craptaculous-society/

[lonestarnot]

1. MSNBC is sure doing a number on Charlie the freak.

oh sorry.

[undergroundpanther]

6. Charlie manson is a psychopath

He is not mentally ill and probably not mentally injured.If he was he isn't gaining my sympathy because either he was already a psychopath,or at some point he decided to become a perpetrator and ceased to care..Just because someone gets abused or rejected as a kid does not make them go out and kill people when they grow up .That myth is called the vampire myth,that child abuse makes for killers or future abusers by default is bullshit because if the epidemic numbers of abused kids grow up to became killers there wouldn't be any people left to kill.Sad fact child abuse is common,in this country.and 1 in 4 people have a toxic personality type.At some point if a person is not a toxic person, everyone makes a choice to stop caring .The other option is they have a toxic psychopath/authoritarian/narcissistic personality type and they just happened to be an abused kid too.Serial killers can come from happy homes as well as bad homes so abuse is not the cause of psychopathy.It is in the personality itself,who the person is and that does not responds to therapy like mental retardation does not improve intelligence wise with psychotherapy or psych drugs..Psychopath traits can be seen in kids as young as 2.
Traumatic psychiatric injury has a signature of symptoms that might mimic or be other things but the bottom line is can the person feel compassion for others really, do they care,are they able to feel empathy or love or not.

[cgrindley]

15. You know that doesn't make any sense, right? (nt)

[AnotherGreenWorld]

81. ha

[KT2000]

2. In most cases - injured!

You may also want to consider the fact that our world is doused with TONS of neurotoxic chemicals so we can have clean houses, perfect yards, smooth sheets, shiny hair etc. The barriers in the brain can be violated by these chemicals.

You may want to look at this link. Martin Pall, PhD has looked at some of the chemicals in the body that spring into action when a person is under various stresses.

http://molecular.biosciences.wsu.edu/Faculty/pall/pall_main.htm

[undergroundpanther]

7. I agree

The neurotoxins are an issue too.Aspartame is a big neurotoxin.
Also the valium and psych drugs at detectable levels in drinking water along with mercury the mad hatters chemical that caused the felters years ago to become mad, is everywhere including in our teeth being bathed in weak acids and sometimes hydrochloric acid which makes a really toxic chemical right in our mouths if you got amalgam fillings..

How can amalgam be safe if we are told tuna consumption must be limited due to mercury.Where do you think all these multiple chemical sensitivity allergies are coming from.I myself was allergy tested and it amazed me the emotional reactions I had to some allergens,it was freaky.

The disconnect our culture has regarding this shit is fucking scary.

[bobbolink]

23. Actually, that disconnect makes perfect sense.

IF we were to all recognize that many things are caused by profit-making products, and IF we were to realize that so much of labeled "mental illness" is another profit-making myth, the profits would...

well, the profits would fall, and we can't have that, can we???


:hi: :hug: :hi:

[undergroundpanther]

29. Misery

Makes Money!!
That is the problem with a culture full off self actualized, compassionate ,happy satisfied people..They are not profitable and not controllable either.
Two things authoritarians can't stand.

[bobbolink]

32. Bingo! Misery Makes Money!

Pills!

Shopping!

Escapism til ya drop!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And, we go along with it, rather than stubbornly insisting on community as the antidote.

Oh hell, I'd rather trust the shrinks and pharmcos!

:puke:

[undergroundpanther]

34. Shrinks and pharmos

Spare us the dread of self introspection,self honesty and the dangerous work of defying society and doing the hard compassionate work to find another way to live and developing social skills and interpersonal skills along with allies and the courage to let go of the game,and do it.

So good to see you Bobolink!!
:pals:

[bobbolink]

35. There ya go! "It Takes Courage To be Mentally Ill"

or something along those lines.

Defy society.

Be continually assaulted with criticism.

Be ostracized.

Struggle against all odds to keep your heart from being hardened by a hateful society.

FIND allies.... just finding 'em is a skill all it's own! And a matter of great luck, to boot. "Looking for love in all the wrong places...."

Courage.

When courage becomes roadkill, .........

[undergroundpanther]

49. When courage becomes roadkill

Is when this kitty gets real pissed comes flying out from the web and into the street all fangs and claws and goes out with such a bang it will be a catalyst for change.
Why? because I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by speaking truth to power.

And I will defy the powers that be,and their stupid culture even if my voice comes with angry defiant rage,pain and I will to fight if that makes the point when my words failed to..I will not be silenced!
I might get killed or locked up but I will never shut up.
Because I am free, self sovereign, I care and I hate any sort of so called authority bully be it an individual,belief,culture or a system that abuses power with my whole heart..

[KT2000]

3. Another example

can be found in a study published in Lancet. Additives make ADHD worse in children who consume them.
This is neurological INJURY!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20612862/

[stillcool]

4. I agree...

and wonder...how could it possibly be any different? And, what's more, how could it not get worse? Especially when No One Sees...that the problems of a violent society..neglected abused children, born of other neglected, abused children.. who turn into the emotionally disturbed, maladjusted, rapists, murderers, addicts, abusers of every stripe, are created by the society that breeds them. Throw them in jail...kill them...and still the behavior continues, and multiplies, and flourishes. I'm depressed, but this shit is depressing. This is what is important...

"During 2005 the total Federal, State, and local adult correctional population - incarcerated or in the
community - grew by 60,700 to over 7 million. The growth of 0.9% during the year was less than half of
the average annual increase of 2.5% since 1995. About 3.2% of the U.S. adult population, or 1 in every
32 adults, were incarcerated or on probation or parole at yearend 2005."
According to the Department of Justice, there were 7,056,000 persons in the correctional population, of
whom 4,162,536 were on probation, 784,408 were on parole, 747,529 were in jails, and 1,446,269 were in
state and federal prisons. In 1995, there were 5,342,900 people in the correctional population of whom
3,077,861 were on probation, 679,421 were on parole, 507,044 were in jails, and 1,078,542 were in state
and federal prisons. In 2000, there were 6,445,100 people in the correctional population of whom
3,826,209 were on probation, 723,898 were on parole, 621,149 were in jails, and 1,316,333 were in state
and federal prisons.

Source: Glaze, Lauren E. and Thomas P. Bonczar, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics,
Probation and Parole in the United States, 2005 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, November
2006), p. 1.

Family violence and abuse are among the most prevalent forms of interpersonal violence against women
and young children -- both boys and girls. The sexual abuse of a child should never be "just a family
matter," but many children are afraid to report an incident to the police because the abusers are too
often a family friend or relative.

Approximately one-third of all juvenile victims of sexual abuse cases are children younger than 6 years
of age. (Violence and the Family, Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task
Force on Violence and the Family, 1996.)

According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age
12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice.)

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household
probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and
that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police.3

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape
victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were
younger than 12.4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vietnam War
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/COLDvietnam.htm

http://www.unc.edu/~ebonyhi/vietnam%5Bpaper%5D.pdf

“The poor of America,” McNamara said, “have not had the opportunity to earn
their fair share of this nation’s abundance, but they can be given an opportunity to serve
in their country’s defense and they can be given an opportunity to return to a civilian life
with skills and aptitudes which for them and their families will reverse the downward
spiral of decay.”

In mid-1966 the Secretary of Defence, McNamara, laid down his arguments behind Project 100,000. It
would involve the admission of 40,000 "new standards" men for the American military and 100,000 every
year thereafter. McNamara himself had an advanced degree, and those involved in the planning of the war
were in the top tenth of the national income pyramid. The polarity between those who fought in the
Vietnam war and those who planned it is stark. James W. Davis and Kenneth M. Dolbeare carried out
research into the operations of the draft in Wisconsin in 1966. Their conclusions on the bias of the
selection service against the poor are damning: ‘…men with the advantages of income and education do
not experience service at the same rates as their less-advantaged contemporaries.’ 6 And once the GI’s
were out fighting in the field, inequality of wealth and differences in social class would manifest
itself in the fatality statistics. During the war, soldiers who had not graduated from High School had
casualty rates three times higher than those who held a diploma, while young men whose families had
incomes in the $4,000 – 7,000 range were three times more likely to die or be injured than those with
incomes over $17,000. 7

In the spring of 1971 the mass media in America carried news of widespread heroin addiction amongst
American troops in Vietnam. This was not new information for the US Army: in 1968 they had become aware
of widespread use of cannabis amongst the troops and had acted decisively against this. Within a week
there had been a 1,000 arrests and the military issued press releases that the drug problem was under
control. But as the availability of marijuana declined, the use of heroin increased. The military had
merely help replace one drug for another harder substitute. New York Times correspondent, Gloria
Emerson, sent a dispatch on September 12, 1971 from Camp Crescenz in South Vietnam. Until the new
commander took over, the price of heroin had been at around the price of $2 or $3 for a vial (it was
$120 at New York Street prices) but after raids that confiscated 409 vials and the building of new
barbed-wire fences the base to keep smugglers out, the price had risen to $12.10 for a vial of 250
milligrams. 9 The military wrongly assumed that heroin addiction was due to low cost and ready
availability.

The United States Department of Defence, although aware of the problems, were forced to act under the
pressure of public scrutiny, and they sent Dr. Norman E. Zinberg on a fact-finding mission. His
conclusions echoed that of the New York Times correspondent: the anti-drug policy was fatally flawed.
In Thailand, which he also visited, Dr Zinberg found that the supply there was ‘even more abundant and
cheaper than in Vietnam’10, but there was relatively very little drug abuse amongst GI’s in Thailand.
Obviously, those in one environment were less likely to pursue heroin than then those that found
themselves in another.

As for the typical addict, Dr Zinberg commented that majority are ‘made up of men who are like
everybody’s next-door neighbours. They come from small towns in the midwest or south; their
personalities are not unusual; they have had slight previous experiences with drugs; they are in good
physical condition; they represent all ethnic and educational groups equally.’11
The war itself ravaged men’s expectations. Most were naïve in their intentions, and they left Vietnam
either radicalised or demoralised or both. But this was slow to set in, and it wasn’t until Nixon
ordered the Vietnamizing of the war after he came to office in January 1969 that the realisation came
of fighting a war with which the administration had no intention of winning, and demoralisation really
set in.

http://www.jfk-fr.com/fil_481-0.php

[mentalsolstice]

5. I disagree!

Mental challenges include a huge net of symptoms and diagnoses. In my own family, we have a history of some diagnoses, yet it hasn't always comported with modern views.

I can't accept a "blame it on the circumstances" view in all cases. Talk to any schizophrenic consumer, or research their family background, and you'll find (nine times out of ten) the ordinary American family. However, delve a little deeper, and you'll find common patterns with other family members, independent of conditions.

My cousin and I grew up in the same environment. I have mild cerebral palsy, she doesn't. At age 42, she was diagnosed as schizophrenic...whereas I remain mentally healthy (well, somewhat, on any given day, ha!). Fortunately, she has remained independent, with the assistance of her family. However, from my experience, I would maintain that her disability is as physical as my own.

Mental challenges are indicative of a medical condition, just like congestive heart failure, arthritis, or dementia (Alzheimer's).

on edit: I agree that some mental conditions, such as PTSD, arise purely from physical situations. However, many mental illnesses are totally organic.

[undergroundpanther]

8. Ok but

Don't you think there is overlap?

Because the way symptoms in some people go away once they are in a safe place and they are listened to? And of course,misdiagnosis is rampant too.

What do you make of this?
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060514024158data_trunc_sys.shtml
The bad side of making mental illness caused by bad chemical function creates a way to claim or explain differences in behavior as inherent to a person's biology,This is biological determinism which is a foundation for eugenics.Eugenicists once thought black people were inferior because of their race this is the ugly side of biological determinism.Remember nazis killed off the mentally ill first,why was that because nazis thought mentally ill people were born defective therefore unfit for existence..
Another reason I hate the bio psychiatry bullshit it has in the abusive culture like ours dangerous consequences once a large percentage of the population buys the idea some people who are different are defective people..

[UncleSepp]

9. I think several causes can have the same effect

There are many reasons why a person might develop neuropathy, for example. It could be inflammation, infection, injury, myelin degradation, all sorts of reasons. The pain is the same. The manifestation is the same.

Biological determinism can be a very dangerous idea, though. I can completely agree with you on that. However, just because the truth may be complicated, inconvenient, or able to be used to bad ends does not make it less true. If the truth is complicated, if mental illnesses have psychological, chemical, and physical components and are influenced by genetics and by physical and psychological environment, then let it just be complicated.

*hugs* Nice to see you, btw :-)

[undergroundpanther]

12. nice to see you too

the point of my post was to bring up the dangers of biological determinism when considering people's differences and thoughts and to mention the fact misdiagnosis exists and that the effects of trauma are minimized in this culture that is way too tolerant of abusers..

[UncleSepp]

18. Too much "get over it" and not enough understanding

... and not enough common understanding of the mechanisms of psychological trauma. Way too much "blame the victim" still, too.

Misunderstandings of biological determinism led to eugenics once in this country. I'm not confident it couldn't happen again, given the amount of pro-eugenics remarks I hear from people all the time. "Clean up the shallow end of the gene pool" or "hope x person doesn't breed" are meant as funny but belie a pro-eugenics thought pattern.

[undergroundpanther]

28. Yep

Nail on the head..Amazing how normalized the language of eugenics has become,sheesh it's like it's NORMAL or something..

[UncleSepp]

40. And the people who use it would deny supporting eugenics

The concept of eugenics has gotten attached to some kind of X-Files version of the Lebensborn project, as if it means "breeding a race of supermen".

Have you read Black's _War Against The Weak_ (http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/ ) ?

[undergroundpanther]

51. Yes that book is amazing

And the scary part.I have seen with my own eyes eugenics programs in psych rehab residential housing.
My roommate was black I look white. I wanted my tubes tied I fought my psychiatrist tooth and nail to get it done.Insurance was not the issue.It was strange to me that this resistance was even an issue.The doctors never came out and told me WHY they wanted me to remain fertile.I asked many times and they'd not answer me.

Meanwhile while I was fighting my shrinks for a tube tie...My roommate showed me a little cylinder embedded in her arm.I felt it under her skin..She said she had norplant put in.I asked her if she asked for it.She said no, she didn't want it..than she told me that the program staff said if she did not accept the norplant they would kick her out on the street and refuse her treatment!!(this was a threat and by law nobody could be discharged without a treatment plan so it was fishy as hell)

She was not sexually active for she was so heavily drugged the minute she got home she slept until she got up to go to the day program where staff watched everyone..This was really useless for her and intrusive on her reproductive rights and had risks to her health.

Curious,I asked other clients around the program about Norplant.It was strange the whites had no clue about it and did not get offered or pushed into taking norplant ..but the black women in the program had it put in under coercion.
This really pissed me off.

This happened in a state run psych residential program that housed residents to get them into the community by placing them in private apartments that the state would rent...in 1995-96.
I got attacked by staff(choked unconscious) for trying to report this.

You bet the pro eugenics pieces of shit are out there in jails and hospitals, psych wards and programs,still waging the war on the weak and different..I really HATE these asshole people that think it's ok to force and coerce over medicated black women in psych housing to take norplant!.

About Norplant..
http://www.popcouncil.org/biomed/norplantfaq.html


Who was paying for this shit!!!

[bobbolink]

69. You Have A BOOK in you!

Seriously, what you know MUST get out.

If there were truly justice, there would be a way to put an end to this shit!

Not only to end it, but to restore justice to people like your roommate who have been so abused!

How can you even remain functional, knowing what you know, and having no outlet for it?

I really admire you!

:yourock:

[UncleSepp]

83. Holy Snot, Panther!

No words. There are just no words. I want to know who was paying, too.

[undergroundpanther]

91. Holy Snot..!!

OMG that is hilarious ..considering I got a fucking cold right now and snot is all I got..LOL!

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. The symptoms do not always go away in safe places. One of the most frustrating things before I was

correctly diagnosed with bipolar was how I could feel so stressed and panicky when I had zero reason to be feeling that way. I can still get that way on meds, but it's more restrained and easier to manage.

[cgrindley]

10. I think I'll leave psychiatry to psychiatrists (nt)

[undergroundpanther]

11. Ummm

Psychiatrists recently decided it was ethical for people be tortured. http://www.counterpunch.org/bond08232006.html

Sometimes psychiatrists are not humane or good people.
I have been in the psych system for years and from my experience I have seen bad psychiatrists abuse people, over drug people, (like my roommate nearly died from over drugging I told staff and they made the doc lower her drug dose she was wetting her bed and she'd stop breathing)and I have seen other ethically questionable treatment forced upon patients.

So someone besides the psychiatrists has to watch the psychiatrists to make sure they are not harming the people in their care since the mental health system hasn't always been about doing no harm but about social control. Do learn the ugly history of psychiatric treatment and you will see where I am coming from.

Keeping the psych industry accountable and aware of the need for human rights, is what psych survivor groups try to do and advocate for.

I myself can trust a shrink only if the shrink is ethical, does nothing about me without me,and respects my consent, respects human rights and cognitive freedom to be who I am.
Believe me, some shrinks are not ethical, and have no concept of what human rights means.Some are quite authoritarian .May you never find yourself under the care of one of these 'professional' control freaks.

[aikoaiko]

19. You do know that the article you cited is about psychologists and not psychiatrists, yes?

[undergroundpanther]

30. Doesen't matter

A doctor with medical degree with psych training is a psychiatrist. He is nothing but a psychologist with medical training.A psychiatrist being a medical doctor he can write prescriptions ,but he is a psychologist as well..no differences really between a psychologist and a psychiatrist psychology training wise..

[cgrindley]

74. By your argument, a phrenologist is a brain surgeon (nt)

[KT2000]

14. That might not be wise

especially if you are responsible for raising children. Sorry - but the best and brightest of the next generation will come from parents who have educated themselves.

The influences upon mental health do not fit neatly into the specialties set up to deal with these things. They are very heavily influenced by entities with money.

You might be surprised to know that the response of the major occupational/environmental medical society in the aftermath of 9/11 concerned themselves only with the stress reaction people would experience around the country.
They had NOTHING to say about the pollutants in NYC - not even a suggestion to wear masks.
They were taking their orders from the people that support them - corporations!

Before you place blind trust into any medical organization/specialty, you might want to look into their financial supporters (who built the building for their headquarters? who wines and dines them? who offers them high paid jobs?).

[undergroundpanther]

31. Agree KT2000 100 percent

Always look into where the money comes from and whom or what corporation is involved and the agendas spoken and unspoken...

[Raksha]

38. You just hit upon one of the best arguments for single-payer

health care I've ever seen!

You might be surprised to know that the response of the major occupational/environmental medical society in the aftermath of 9/11 concerned themselves only with the stress reaction people would experience around the country.
They had NOTHING to say about the pollutants in NYC - not even a suggestion to wear masks.
They were taking their orders from the people that support them - corporations!

As it stands now, the diagnosis (whatever it might be) is heavily weighted towards which corporations stand to make money from the treatment for that problem, whether it's applicable in the individual situation or not. Likewise the establishment is weighted AGAINST any diagnosis (especially of a disease caused by environmental pollution) that might result in liability on the part of a corporation, the government or both.

I'm not sure if single-payer health insurance would do much towards eliminating the second problem (the denial of corporate liability), but it would go a long way towards reining in cash-cow diagnoses and treatments.

[bobbolink]

24. Yup, and let's leave war to the pentagon.

[cgrindley]

85. Oooo shit, you're right... let's let the Michigan Militia take care of war

is that the very best you can manage?

[Raksha]

13. K & R

[demobabe]

16. Interesting post - I'm going to have to spend some times going through all your links

I don't believe this is an either/or situation. I believe there is mental illness caused by chemical imbalance, and I believe everyone gets some bouts of mental illness in their life just like we get colds.

If you feed a person a poor diet, they will feel bad and likely become depressed. Isn't that chemical?

A person who doesn't get sunlight doesn't produce Vitamin D, and people are definitely affected by not seeing sunlight - Seasonal Affective Disorder anyone?

When we exercise, we produce endorphins and the blood gets pumping and cleans out our system. That feels good, and that's all about body chemistry, too.

So if a person gets into a thought pattern where they're not producing enough of certain chemicals, or they get into emotional patterns where they produce too much of certain chemicals, this could be enough to affect their mental well being. It's not that the person is blameless or that drugs are the end all be all, but drugs can work to get someone back on track. The other option is to identify what is lacking and modify the behavior so the person can function on their own.

Are people who suffer from those mental conditions like depression, is that mental injury? I don't think so. If a person never exercises and then gets a physical condition as a result, is that an injury?

However, folks with PTSD and people who come from abusive situations, that clearly is some kind of mental injury, although I believe the person has basically had their mental patterns retrained in a bad way. It's like a dog that's been beaten - most likely it'll never be a good pet again, although sometimes they make remarkable comebacks.

We DO have responsiblity for our mental issues, and we have doctors and psychologists that help get us back on track when our mental health isn't what it should be. There should be no shame or stigma about this. If we have an infection that requires antibiotics, we go to the doctor. If we're suicidal, we should realize it happens to the best of us, and that a doctor can get us to the help we need.

I think we're in a depressive society in general. I think our culture, food, and expectations all breed a neurotic society where sociopathic behaviors are rewarded. We're a mentally sick bunch.

[Beerboy]

17. Tons of links per usual,

but you might be reaching comparing trench warfare of WW1 with suburban chillin up in Fridley, MN. USA in 2007! I'm a fat drunk stoned union bastard finding it harder to get around, but I gotta call ya on the WW1 stuff if you're suggesting those experiences are somehow similar. Just sayin'.

[undergroundpanther]

33. The symptoms are similar

Not the causes of the injuries.

PSTD is PSTD regardless of how the injuries got there, they are there and they cause symptoms and it hurts.
Just as calling a war vets' PSTD pain illegitimate is wrong, it is wrong to be calling a rape survivor's PSTD pain illegitimate. Understand?

The causes may be different but the results : psychiatric injury, is the same.
I have Complex PSTD which is caused by long term traumas that were endured over years.I get flashbacks,triggers, nightmares the whole nine yards.Sometimes it kicks my ass worse than it does other times.

The symptoms of PSTD that can be seen in war vets are indeed repeated in abused kids,disaster survivors,rape victims, war veterans,and other dehumanized, scapegoated or bullied people,PSTD can occur in people exposed to toxic people,forced into toxic situations people who are threatened,fearing for their lives,tortured, and trapped and whatever else.
And in this country torture rape and abuse of power and the denial of it happens everywhere because trauma is the glue that keeps authoritarian cultures in line..

PSTD sufferers exhibit a certain cluster of symptoms that indicate a psychiatric injury.
And NO source of psychiatric injury is to be favored over the others or minimized ,ignored or denied if we are to be honest about this and really want to help people.

[bobbolink]

EXCELLENT post! Should be required reading for ALL psych students!

Really, you should be doing the teaching..... your education is tremendous!

:applause:

[undergroundpanther]

46. I got my degree in the mental hospital

LOL.I got roughly twenty year inpatient/outpatient psych unit/mental health systems experience degree,and advocacy /psych survivor activism experience that ain't worth shit in the academic world.and a G.E.D. Whoo hoo!
But once in a while..Someone who is in the process of getting a degree thinks what I observed and say is useful..And maybe through them it reaches the academic world somehow.And makes a change.I can hope!

[mdmc]

20. some mental illness is situational, some chemical

K/R another great thread !

Peace and low stress...

[bobbolink]

21. I'm so glad you're posting this! We MUST fight all this "mental illness" junk!

It's all about profits for shrinks and pharmcos.

Most of what I've seen that gets labeled is INJURY, and we need to become a society that is caring enough that we can all empathize and give care and support to those who have been INJURED.

There is a distinct difference between INJUSTICE and "mental illness", yet we've been so brainwashed that we think we know, when we don't.

I liked what the bullyonline site had to say about this!

Thanks again for this, and keep it up!

:hug:

[undergroundpanther]

36. Hey as least I can

live with myself because I did my best efforts to get people to ask questions.And maybe even defy the culture of lets pretend.

From Writhe Safely..

I got the “false dichotomy” stink eye reading this month’s Newsweek: Mental Breakdown, which predicts good old fashioned gallows humor just might have to make a comeback in Russia, ha ha ha, since

over the past year at least 10 journalists, political activists or critics of local authorities have been wrongfully hospitalized in mental hospitals. And though forcible psychiatric treatment for political reasons is still rare, the Independent Psychiatric Association, a Moscow watchdog, says Russia’s mental hospitals are routinely used by unscrupulous relatives and criminals to remove inconvenient family members…

Shame on those commies! That could never happen here. Oh but it does, but it’s not the same thing. This is America, we don’t do shit for political reasons. We confine individuals in the mental hospital when there’s something wrong with the individual, full stop.

Individualism, our American credo, gives us this fundamental disconnection between politics and behavior. They do not meet. You break that rule at your own filthy-stinking-pinko-hippie-femanazi peril.

And since we don’t have politics in America what we do is throw people in the psych ward for creative writing, for falling off their medication, because they lack insight, because they distrust NAMI, are paranoid about family lock-em-up motivations, are misinformed about electroshock, and every other intervention we frame as treatment, none of which, including the behaviors that spawned the treatment are to be interpreted as a form of political protest. Ever.
http://writhesafely.wordpress.com/

Check this link out!!
http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/

[bobbolink]

37. Yup, 'Murka NEVER does anything that horrible! NEVER, I tell ya!

We're the ones in the white hats, yanno.

I admire your talent with words! You know how to hit the target!

Of course, you're scaring people.

:rofl:

If they take your words too seriously, they may have to .... um... think...

And, that would hurt.

:)

[undergroundpanther]

52. Boo!

I must admit it I get a kick out of freaking out the normals.The Mental health board has just issued a public service announcement:
Do not attempt to think or depression may result....


And to quote Snog..

Normal people suffocate you till your last breath
They clutter footpaths, clutter highways with their living death

Are you normal enough?
Are you normal enough?

Normal people stare at you wherever you may go
Normal people despise difference to the normal people show

Are you normal enough?
Are you normal enough?

Normal people stay inside, stay in the normal zone
You shed a tear at the zoo, but you chew flesh and bone

Are you normal enough?

[bobbolink]

89. Thanks. I woke up in the middle of the night, hearing someone say "Boo!"

:hi:

If "freaking out the normals" gets people to pay attention and take some action, then freak away!

I realize that people are bizzzzy, and can't read everything, but... it's time to STOP assuming that "professionals" are always operating in our best interests!

"The Just World Theory" operates here....

:hug:

[BluePatriot]

22. undergroundpanther, have you ever had a thyroid test?

I have autoimmune thyroid disease, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, which can be measured (debatably) with several blood tests.

When my thyroid is off I have hard-core mental symptoms caused by too much or too little thyroid hormone. However more than one doctor has tried to throw me into the "psychiatric label" camp because they do not understand that thyroid disease can CAUSE mental symptoms, that thyroid med overdose can cause mental symptoms, etc. I was even labeled bipolar once when really my thyroid hormones were swinging up and down, out of control, as my disease flared up. So I really sympathize. I have had $11,700 worth of claims since July...

I firmly believe that many psychiatric patients really have thyroid disease that no one screened for. I also think medication can be helpful on a temporary basis for some people, but doctors need to get into the root causes of problems vs. treating the symptoms. Unfortunately even the best doctors have their hands tied by insurance/malpractice issues...my PA is an awesome lady that listens but she has to order a billion un-necessary tests to CYA and really can't spend more than 20 min with me at a time...sucks too, I can see the regret in her face as she has to rush things along and leave me with ambiguous/unsatisfactory answers.

Here is some reading I think you would enjoy.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/thyroid-depression-mental-health/

[undergroundpanther]

43. Been tested & my thyroid is fine

I want people to understand one thing,the threat of mental differences being made into a physical disorder, or a biological fate/ determinism is a REAL DANGER. It is visible in the kind of thinking that comes from eugenics. Everyday even on DU eugenics terms are repeated as if it was OK and normal or a joke.. It isn't good we as a culture rush to embrace biological determination as the answer to why some of us lose it and cannot cope with this culture or are unhappy or symptomatic.


I know some issues may very well have physical causes.
I am not saying there are no physical causes to symptoms ok.. agree with you there..

BUT,if society embraces biological determinism I ask that it is taken with a heavy dose of skeptical inquiring political awareness and consideration of alternate explanations for the problem..and realize the individual is not just a body, but a person who's immersed in complex relationships, living a life beyond mere body functions.Each one of us is unique.And worthy.Even if the culture in it's hate of weakness and inefficiency and differences calls us useless eaters.

Because once a large enough segment of society begins to assume anything that does not look normal enough to some authoritarian doctor or expert is because of a body malfunction,and if a problems with many causes is always explained away as a biological problem with the individual...There also comes with such limited thinking, A very politically evil system of beliefs,eugenics .

The Eugenics belief system so invisible to most people when they use it,yet it is so entrenched in our culture it is expressed in the way people talk and in the way people THINK of the worth of others ,it is scary.

And don't think for one minute that there isn't some ass-hat with connections,a degree, tons of cash,an axe to grind, and gigantic ego somewhere thinking the loony deviants in society the whiny victims,and freaks need to be wiped out of the gene pool.

I hear that kind of thinking from many people and it is not directed at psychopaths or other toxic personalities that refuse to live among us all in peace and not cause suffering..This eugenics talk it is directed at rape victims, poor people, homeless people, or people who think differently than what our culture thinks is ok.It becomes a war on the weak, the deviants and the dissidents.And I for one do not want to go there..Because every body is different..And if someday my body is determined to be an inferior body not worthy of life..Because it is "imbalanced" and does not let me be productive enough,I ask who will have the guts in such a blinkered 'profession'to stand up for me? When a culture gets so body focused and championing the words of 'experts' who all agree,and society is always right,Who can defy all the experts and authorities armed with their reams of studies and cases ready just to prove how my body determines me unfit to exist and a danger to society..Who will argue I am worthy of living my life despite my disability,my heretical views on the 'norms' and culture, and my strong anti authoritarian attitudes and angry rebellion against a society that is hell bent on cleansing the 'stock' of people like me??But so earnestly denies this?

[BluePatriot]

55. Good to hear!

I am glad to hear your thyroid tested OK. (Of course, they are always re-defining what normal lab values are, but I won't get into that rant!) Please know that I always wish you well when reading your posts and that is why I shared my experience.

I agree with many of your points. I LOVE holistic thinking in doctors. But unfortunately many people do not think that way. Too many times they just address symptoms. And, sometimes doctors are so bad/busy/indifferent, they want to put people on antidepressants/mood stabilizers/etc for physical illnesses, without screening properly, especially "whiny women" like me, and that is exactly what has happened to me and so many others and it's a real injustice. Drugs as a fix-all magic pill without finding the root cause...ugh.
Luckily I have DU and the Internet and I hope I am on a path to personal wellness finally. I try to keep up with both science and alt. meds, picking and choosing what works. And I keep a critical eye on my environment. I use a lot of natural remedies and frankly they are the most effective for me right now. I really want to keep my vitamins!

Anyway, I can really relate to your determination to highlight flaws in the system and advocate for the right to live as is without others judging us. I hope my story has helped to add to and support your point. Peace.

[undergroundpanther]

62. Agree

And, sometimes doctors are so bad/busy/indifferent, they want to put people on antidepressants/mood stabilizers/etc for physical illnesses, without screening properly, especially "whiny women" like me, and that is exactly what has happened to me and so many others and it's a real injustice.

Yeah agreed too much injustice.. Just ask anyone(usually a female) with the stigmatizing diagnosis of BOOOOORRDEEERLLLIINEE!! How well they are respected as human beings.


Anyway, I can really relate to your determination to highlight flaws in the system and advocate for the right to live as is without others judging us. I hope my story has helped to add to and support your point. Peace.

Yeah anything from experince and the heart it helps.
Take care...

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. I'm bipolar and in my case it's chemical, however pyschological trauma

also played a part and the two are very much intertwined.

[pitohui]

44. a friend of mine is severely bipolar, it's definitely chemical in his case

this guy had everything on a plate as far as upbringing and opportunity, it's definitely he got screwed in the genetic lottery, the only time he has ever been able to function and hold a job even for a few weeks is when he is on his meds and NOT abusing crack

it's just heart-breaking but i don't know how anyone can deny that there is a strong chemical element to many bipolar patients

it's almost like cause and effect is backward in some cases, in this guy's case, it's when he was older and not yet properly diagnosed, that he really got into the illegal drugs and now he can't ever seem to break the chain -- the psychological traumas that came into his life have come because he was bipolar and got mixed up in crap he wouldn't have otherwise had any reason to get involved in

really really sad, you feel so helpless

but i don't see how people can say "oh he's bipolar because he had a shitty life with lots of trauma" often it's the other way around -- the shitty life can happen because the person is bipolar and uses such poor judgment when they're manic that they get themselves in horrible situations

[GreenPartyVoter]

77. A LOT of us get into self-medicating because we go undiagnosed. :^(

[msedano]

26. NAMI walk in Cal / PTSD story

In California, the guv line item vetoed $526 million dollars from the budget, the money would have aided the poor. Typically compassionate GOPiglican, he left untouched a tax break for yacht owners.

Hence, if you're poor and need help, count only on your own resources. Or lend a helping hand. Or feet in this case (edited from a personal email):

NAMI, National Alliance on Mental Illness, sponsors fundraisers like NAMI Walks for the Mind of America, NAMI’s signature walkathon event that is being held in Santa Monica, CA, at Santa Monica 3rd Street Promenade, Saturday morning October 6, 2007.

... this organization cares for those with brain diseases and support for their families is not on a par with that for other illnesses, and because there is not equal access to care for everyone who needs it.
...visit http://www.nami.org/
....NAMI, the Nation’s Voice on Mental Illness, formerly the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, is the largest education, support and advocacy organization that serves the needs of all those whose lives are touched by these illnesses. This includes persons with mental illness, their families, friends, employers, the law enforcement community and policy makers. The NAMI organization is composed of approximately 1100 local affiliates, 50 state offices and a national office.

The goals of the NAMIWalks program are: to fight the stigma that surrounds mental illness, to build awareness of the fact that the mental health system in this country needs to be improved and to raise funds for NAMI so that they can continue their mission.

NAMI is a 501(c)3 charity and any donation you make to support our participation in this event is tax deductible. NAMI has been rated by Worth magazine as among the top 100 charities "most likely to save the world" and has been given an "A+" rating by The American Institute of Philanthropy for efficient and effective use of charitable dollars. NAMI has also been given 4 out of 4 stars by The Charity Navigator for short-term spending practices and long-term sustainability.

Other options for support:
check out the NAMI website at www.nami.org.
volunteer to work for your local NAMI affiliate
tell a friend about NAMI
ask your doctor if he/she knows about NAMI
support bills and politicians that improve mental health services


=========


Here's a short story that uses PTSD to illustrate the travesty of veteran care, framed in the concussion / multiple concussion diagnosis:
http://labloga.blogspot.com/2007/07/story-within-limits-of-my-post.html


mvs

http://readraza.com
http://labloga.blogspot.com

[ceile]

57. I'm signed up for my local NAMI walk.

NAMI is a terrifc organization.

[undergroundpanther]

58. Nami is no freind of the mentally ill

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/May2004/levine0504.html
http://homepage.mac.com/herinst/sbeder/drugcompanies.html
http://www.furiousseasons.com/archives/2007/01/your_time_for_deception.html
http://www.unknownnews.org/070602a-Panther.html
http://www.unknownnews.net/040712a-upits.html

Check out consumer run organizations and peer support run by psych survivors.
http://www.radpsynet.org/journal/vol3-1/don.html
http://www.onourownmd.org/
http://www.mindfreedom.org/
http://vocalsupportcenter.org/directory.htm
http://www.radpsynet.org/index.html
http://www.freedom-center.org/mad-america

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

72. I'm sure there are very many people who would gladly trade places with you, so you can experience it

for yourself.

Then, maybe you would be willing to hear the pain of those who have been on the receiving end.

"i suspect mentally ill have very few friends."

Unfortunately, congentially cruel people seem to have many.

[bobbolink]

70. Be suspicious. Be Very Suspicious!

Most likely, that money would be used for FORCED TREATMENT!

Cutting off the Civil Rights of people given a diagnosis is HELL!

I'm no fan of Gov Schwarzencrapper, but that veto may have been the most humane thing for the people involved.

Please, read some of the stories about people who have had treatment FORCED on them.

It's very ugly!

[Midlodemocrat]

39. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the sheer lunacy of this thread.

As well as some of the responses. "There's no such thing as mental illness?"

Dear God, people what are you smoking?

[pitohui]

45. makes you wonder, doesn't it?

as i hinted in a post above, what really frustrates me is to see a person w. bipolar illness push away the meds for awhile and then "self medicate" with crack, hello?

if you're going to take drugs anyway, and in many cases of mental illness you're going to, because you're hurting, maybe it's best to have a doctor's guidance, and if you don't trust that doctor, seek out one you can trust?

got to be better than smoking a bunch of baking soda?

[undergroundpanther]

64. Explain this finding than?

Dr Jon Simons and Dr Paul Burgess led the study at the UCL Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience. Dr Burgess said: "In our tests volunteers either thought they had imagined words which they had actually been shown or said they had seen words which in fact they had just imagined - in over 20 per cent of cases. That is quite a lot of mistakes to be making, and shows how fallible our memory is - or perhaps, how slim our grip on reality is!


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060623215216.htm
And this..
http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=3534

[spoony]

48. No shit; I thought the other guys were the ones that rejected science.

The OP might as well have said "mentally ill people have demons."

[undergroundpanther]

61. Mentally ill people don't have demons

but society does.And it torments some of us the more sebnsitive.,.
Eugenics is one demon.., so is the myth of normalicy,so is social engineering,haves and have nots, and hierarchical domination...The list is quite long..
Our society is quite demonic emotionally to the people within it's systems.

[spoony]

84. The "myth of normalicy" has nothing to do

with mental illness. Fuck being normal, when someone has a real chemical issue in their brain that makes life a nightmare, they need help, usually the kind of help you're railing against here.

[undergroundpanther]

92. you don't get it

there is no test out there that can prove a chemical imbalance. The makers of SSRI's used to yammer about a chemical imbalance on their drug commercials on tv, remember the one with the crying little circle? Now they don't make those claims why do you think that is? Because someone sued them for FALSE advertising that's why.

There are NO studies that can PROVE mental illness has a physical biological or biochemical basis if there was you could be tested and it would be visible.
Research it.

But there is NO test that will definitively prove any mental illness has a biological basis. And in tribal societies there is almost zero incidence of schizophrenia.. why is that? Maybe because civilization is killing us all slowly and destroying the social networks and relationships we need to be sane to keep us 'producing' and consuming and miserable and compliant enough with our own institutionalization process to profit from it all by inducing a state of controlled insanity?

[undergroundpanther]

59. well

Please tell me what sanity is..and do not use our culture or it's conforming imperatives as the thing you are measuring the definition of sanity against.

Can you tell me what sanity might look like in an insane society such as ours?

Contrary to popular delusions it might look pretty crazy to a 'normal'..

Mental illness... well what is it? Is it a label or a person a symptomology or a situational reaction to an unreasonable abusive culture ? What is a norm? Do you know the origins of normal?
Find out.
http://www.mouthmag.com/issues/74/pp12-13no74.html

[NMMNG]

63. De-Nile is more than a river in Egypt

:shrug:

[KT2000]

66. Where did you get

the notion that there is no such thing as mental illness from the OP.

He/she is suggesting that you think through the question - is is mental illness or injury? That is not a question that can be dismissed so easily. It goes to the structure of medical specialties, research, the question of treatment and much more.

If a child consumes food additives that are known to exacerbate ADHD, how should the symptoms be addressed? as a brain injury? psychiatric problems? nutritional problem?

Another example: Years ago a woman was sent to a mental institution every late fall. Finally someone put it together that it was when she turned her heat on after the summer. She had radiant heating in the floor and the heating of the toxic glues and components of the flooring material caused her to have what were viewed as psychiatric symptoms.
What was she? injured or mentally ill?

[undergroundpanther]

80. and that is a question we need to ask

And biological determinism applied to emotions just sidesteps this whole other realm of other possible causes and possible relief for mental distress and I don't think that blaming it ALL on some invisible biochemical issues that pharmaceutical companies profit a tremendous amount by promoting this biochemical imbalance idea and making it seem as if it is always a problem within the individual .That myopia is not fair or just to the people who are suffering through this sort of shit.
The idea that the OP was denying mental distress is real is offensive.I do not know if all people suffering from symptoms called'mental illness' are all mentally ill.Some might have other reasons for their distress. And those other reasons are as valid as any other reasons.

Popularity and efficient marketing does not a reality make.

[Prophet 451]

41. Without my anti-depressents

i would be dead. That simple.

[kineneb]

79. voting for your statement

I need the medication, because the other forms of therapy do not keep away the black dogs of depression (thanks for the imagery, William Styron). I do not want to join my great-grandmother in the statistics- she was a suicide at age 27. Mental health issues run in the family.

[bobbolink]

87. So, you think that *everyone*, then, should have forced "treatment"?

[kineneb]

90. didn't say anything about forced treatment

with biological+environmental-based depression, the person in question is often their own worst enemy. The untreated outcome is often suicide. I probably would be dead by my own hand by now if I were not on medications. But sometimes friends and family have to intervene, in order to protect themselves from emotional damage. Hubby insisted we get some counseling, and the family therapist referred me on to a psychiatrist. The meds are not perfect, but the alternative for me is far worse.

[bobbolink]

94. "But sometimes friends and family have to intervene,"

Forced treatment.

[bobbolink]

86. Nobody is taking *anything* away from you.

[depakid]

42. I suggest you review some scientific materials on this site:

http://www.psycheducation.org/

It's probably the best site explaining the science behind mood disorders on the web.

While it's true that traumatic events can trigger mood disorders and worsen the severity of symptoms, the underlying "causes" are abnormalities in the structures and chemistry of the brain.

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. It was the best site I could find to help me understand my diagnosis of Bipolar II. I knew

years ago that I was bipolar, but the shrinks back then had such a narrow model that they said "No, no. Can't be that." But it was that and I am only now at age 36 getting onto the meds-go-round to try and find something that works for me.

[DaveJ]

47. Instances I've seen have appeared environmental

Of course, I'm not a doctor and I've only met a few people who admit to a mental diagnosis. My wife for example was diagnosed as bipolar, but she was in a wicked sick relationship with her ex, and in the past 4 years since I met her she is almost totally back to normal. I was also (mis)diagnosed with schizophrenia, and wrongly told I would not be able to graduate college, but I believe it was the result of social isolation combined with extremely stressful issues at that time. When I see others who act strange there usually appears to be some kind of social underpinning, at least in my view anyway. I'm sure this is not true 100% of the time, but it's good to know so that we are not slaves to pharmaceutical companies.

[pitohui]

50. well it sounds like both of you were wrongly diagnosed

clearly if you are not properly diagnosed, then you don't need to be taking meds for an illness you never had!

bipolar symptoms may come and go, but there is some "kindling" effect and the more it goes untreated, pretty much the worse it gets over the years -- so i have to presume that you'd know by now if your wife was bipolar, this isn't some quiet easily hidden condition

"people who act strange" can mean anything, they can be asperger's syndrome ("nerds"), for which there is no real treatment that does anything much but make the parents or doctor feel better

but autism/asperger's is a completely different category from mental illnesses like bipolar syndrome, schizophrenia, etc.

some argument can be made that asperger's is an alternative style of brain to "neurotypical," not much argument can be made that paranoid schizophrenia is a decent or even bearable alternative to robust mental health

my opinion only, i'm no doctor, just seen too many people suffering down here

i was diagnosed as a high functioning autistic, something no one ever attempted to change by medication, nor something i would wish to change, but i've learned that to assume that this extends to conditions like bipolar syndrome, well, it just doesn't, without some kind of treatment, these people are in real pain and in real trouble

[DaveJ]

53. Sorry, I was just expressing my own frustration...

...over a system where doctors are allowed to tell normal people that they have a "chemical imbalance" when there are no tests that can be done to prove it. I didn't intend to gloss over real cases that exist. My wife works with kids who have different levels of autism, so I understand it is real.

Perhaps if doctors and and researchers dedicated more time to serious illnesses and less time trying to make money, some of these problems could be dealt with more effectively.

[pitohui]

75. no need to apologize, i suspected it was something like that EOM

,

[undergroundpanther]

54. Thorazine

and behavior modification,anectine and all manner of drugs did nothing to stop my PSTD.
But by time they admitted I may be traumatized (even though my mother WROTE the trauma and molestation she knew I had faced on the ADMISSIONS sheet),My proper diagnosis was made well after they had already re-traumatized the living shit out of me and kept me in isolation for 18 months.

Such competence.LOL, such skillful diagnosing.. at one of the top psych hospitals in the country...at the time.

So forgive my cynical lack of trust for the establishment.It is with good reason I am angry.

[bobbolink]

71. How you have made it through all the torture, yes TORTURE, is beyond me!

I really cannot stand to read all that you have gone through. It is beyond comprehension that people are willing to do this sort of thing to another human being!!

That you can not only continue fighting the shit, but do so much research and be so strong and ...well, scholastic about it, is one of the wonders of the world.

I admire, you, my friend!

:hug:

[pitohui]

76. wrong dx's are a huge problem in medicine, but not just in mental health, in physical health also

it is an issue that can impact both physical and mental health

example: a friend's father was diagnosed with clinical depression and was committed to a mental institution as a suicide risk, back in the day (70s) while they still did that

turned out he did not have clinical depression, he had colon cancer, which went untreated while they tried to treat his depression

he died

example: my own mother was unusually tired and reported it to her doctor, even tho she was in her 60s and heart disease is the #1 killer of women of that age, doctor dx'd depression and prescribed drugs (which my mom did not take for more than a few days, being i guess a bad bad patient) -- she finally received bypass surgery a few weeks later because she had an unmistakable heart attack that could no longer be ignored -- the surgeon said that she would have died w.in days w.out this surgery

there is no question that we need top notch, well trained doctors who are willing to address people's health issues and not write them off as "mental illness" without being certain that there isn't another issue

no doubt about it

better training, better rested more alert doctors, doctors who don't assume women and old people are "depressed" when they've never been depressed before -- does depression REALLY ever appear for the first time in late middle age or old age? we do need all that

but at the same time we shouldn't confuse the issue by going so far in the other direction that people desperately in need in health are refused their care (the ronald reagan solution) -- many people DO have a chemical imbalance and until we figure out the cause of it then it will have to be treated with medication, it is interesting to see the new theories that schizophrenia may be caused by a virus but right now we don't KNOW, there is no vaccine for the putative virus anyway, and the only way some schizophrenics can function is if they receive the proper medicines

balance is key

[AnotherGreenWorld]

82. Do Cats Cause Schizophrenia?

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Schizovirus.html

Also, "better training, better rested more alert doctors..." - I couldn't agree more, for both physical and mental health.

"example: a friend's father was diagnosed with clinical depression and was committed to a mental institution as a suicide risk, back in the day (70s) while they still did that

turned out he did not have clinical depression, he had colon cancer, which went untreated while they tried to treat his depression"

That's so sad. Did anything happen to the doctors involved?

[undergroundpanther]

93. Does civilization cause it?

). Schizophrenic patients from the Third World displayed a significant difference in the course and outcome of their illnesses (as shown via a two-year follow-up), displaying a remarkable tendency to recover more quickly and completely from their illness (Sass, 1997).
http://www.healthsurvey.com/schizophrenia.htm

The Zen master holds a stick over his pupil’s head and says, “If you tell me this stick is real, I will strike you with it. If you say to me this stick is not real, I will strike you with it. If you don’t say anything, I will strike you with it.” Bateson suggests this is exactly the sort of situation a schizophrenic continually experiences. The Zen pupil may achieve enlightenment by taking the stick from his master’s hands. The schizophrenic, by contrast, experiences disorientation and confusion, once again finding his way inexplicably blocked. Taking the stick away is not an option for the schizophrenic — he is helplessly caught in another “can’t win” situation. Through repeated experience with the double bind the schizophrenic finds himself limited in the options he has available to him.
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/03/21/hit-with-the-double-bind-stick/



http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/

http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/articles/mindproject.html

[ceile]

56. Unbelievable.

No such thing as mental illness......that has to be the "craziest" thing I've ever heard.
That makes about as much sense as "the earth is flat".

[undergroundpanther]

60. mental illness

what is it? Not thinking like everyone else? Emotional pain? How does one tell disordered thinking from regular thinking when it is someone else doing the thinking?
Just a thought.
Check this out...
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Szasz/myth.htm
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/rpman.htm
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/rpprin.htm

[KT2000]

67. The question is -

what is mental illness - it is a catch all diagnosis that fails to account for an awful of of information.

He/she is suggesting that you think through the question - is is mental illness or injury? That is not a question that can be dismissed so easily. It goes to the structure of medical specialties, research, the question of treatment and much more.

If a child consumes food additives that are known to exacerbate ADHD, how should the symptoms be addressed? as a brain injury? psychiatric problems? nutritional problem? Currently the children are being drugged.

Another example: Years ago a woman was sent to a mental institution every late fall. Finally someone put it together that it was when she turned her heat on after the summer. She had radiant heating in the floor and the heating of the toxic glues and components of the flooring material caused her to have what were viewed as psychiatric symptoms.

Was she really mentally ill or was her approriate response to being poisoned best managed by putting her into a home and drugging her into oblivion?

[bobbolink]

73. Yes, it's unbelievable that it's so difficult to face the actual truth.

[DemExpat]

68. As a survivor of mental "illness" I say, great post, UGP!

I only survived it by getting out from under the medical definition of it.

And I agree with you on the dangers of labelling people as defective.

:thumbsup:

Excellent post, and you sound like you are doing well.

DemEx

[bobbolink]

88. "I only survived it by getting out from under the medical definition of it."

Very well put!

There are so many survivors who are saying the same thing.

It's so sad that there are so few avenues for expressing this! The shrinks have all the megaphones.

Keep speaking up, and I wish you well! :toast: