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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:46 PM
Original message
B-52s misplaced nukes, broken arrows and Iran
folks, I just had the worst thought possible

Mind you, a nuke going off over Tehran is bad enough and WW III, but

We were told... we do not want the proof to be a mushroom cloud over an American City...

Yep, wearing my tin foil, but all procedures were not followed...

Why?

Could they?

Would they?

Was this leak done to prevent a tragedy?

And yes, I can think of targets as well. Oh and yes, that would allow King George to do all the things we all fear he wishes to do... just connecting dots, really

Damn I hate to say it, but this government is the scariest thing ever, and all them presidential orders

And in another age... none of us would be even be thinking this way.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. September 14th all US Military flights grounded!
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 07:49 PM by seemslikeadream
and what about the Air Force in D.C.?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Posts here a week or so ago about a lot of troops deployed to D.C.
Excrement moving closer to ventilators
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Those troops are part of a normal rotation
they are an AA unit... they have been moving them like this since after 9.11

Wrong kind of troops for what everybody is thinking

Moreover, a batalion is HARDLY lots of troops

It is less than 1000

But other stories that have come out make me go hmm... such as the FBI looking of a new place for its bulding, out of a blast zone

Yep articles were posted here too
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks for that info. To me, 1000 troops sounds like a lot.
havocmom posts from a county with a VERY large area and about a batalion total population. We have 3 peace officers; not as important as D.C. for sure, but still, 1000 sounds like a lot to a hick like me ;)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well your average batalion has between 500 -1000
troops, and is commanded by a Lt Colonel, a light colonel

If those were Military Police... or Line Infantry, I'd say yep riot control

But these guys are an Air Defense Unit, hardly the type of training to contain civilians, but the exact type of training to deal with an Air borne threat.

There is another dot for you to connect
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
63. Thank you and please pass the antiacids
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Pepcid AC going your way
:-)
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. If only...
there were more "hicks" like you, hovocmom. The world would be a better (and certainly safer) place to live.:toast:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
55. Where is the link for this?
Pls don't post critical stuff without links. K thx.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Does the Navy Times work for you? OK Tried different method for link
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 11:22 PM by havocmom
Here ya go
Navy Times on B52 with nukes on board(edit: Damn, page awol again. Will try other links and be back) ( Edit 2: OK, try it now)

There are links in the LBN thread on this and others are having problems with the link from time to time

"Air Combat Command will have a command-wide mission stand down Sept. 14 to review their procedures in response to this oversight, he said."

Second to last paragraph in the linked article
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Thanks--that worked n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Thanks been looking for it in the usual suspects
I knew I read it
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Consider: because of this (who leaked it anyway?) AF to do Stand Down 9-14
Didn't dick's chief of staff recently mention to someone something along the line of America needs another bombing?

So much trouble coming at cheney pretty soon. cheney in a corner has to be dangerous.

Yeah, those presidential orders and 'special powers' in case of emergency...

Where's dick?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Cheney in a corner, you'd rather wrestle a wolverine I imagine. n/t
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. NORTHCOM Plans 5 Day Martial Law Exercise
There getting ready for something? Bush decides its his right to use martial law and they are already doing dry runs? What the fuck!

http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=4185
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Ah yes the lovely lets connect the damn dots
game...

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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #53
90. Dots R us...
Here's a post of mine from a thread the week of August 20th, when Operation Noble Resolve (goddamn that name just sends shivers of patriotic fervor ricocheting through my central nervous system) was going on in Portland. Plenty of links, including one to an editorial in the Whoregonian describing people who see the potential threat in running a "disaster training exercise" in Portland as "fevered speculators."

August post follows:


Note that we already have two cases on the record in which supposed exercises depicting a specific scenario went live during the exercise: on 9/11/01, Rumsfeld was running an alleged training exercise which conveniently tied up both NORAD intercepts and the air traffic control system for the critical hours between 8:30 AM and 10:30 AM EDT; and the London train bombings on 7/7/05, in which that precise scenario was being gamed by MI-5 and MI-6 and even included the same stations where the bombs went off. For added excitement, a bus that was blown up in the scenario was, in fact, blown up in London that day.

So it's not like the reptiles haven't used this tactic before. Posts with links follow:



From Portland indymedia, 8/13

"Captain Eric H. May, the Internet military intelligence writer, has written his most detailed article to date on the highly suspicious Portland Nuke exercise, Noble Resolve. He names the names of the key players in the operation, and of the military and media figures who have joined the growing outcry about what may turn out to be a false flag version of the White House's much-predicted terror nuke."

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/08/3...


And from today.

"The U.S. military "experiment" known as "Operation Noble Resolve 07-2" begins today in Portland, with command centers in Virginia, Texas, Guam, Korea and two locations in Oregon: Salem and Portland.

"Despite the assurances of the US Joint Forces command that the exercise is "purely a computer-based simulation of an earthquake scenario in Portland", many people in the area are extremely concerned.

"Some have mentioned the possibility of the simulation "going live", as happened with the Vigilant Guardian exercise on September 11, 2001. But even without it "going live", there is the little fact that the US military is NOT the organization commissioned by Congress to respond to disasters, and by doing so, as they did in New Orleans following Katrina, they violate the long-standing tradition of 'posse comitatus', which forbids the military from engaging in domestic policing activities."

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/08/3...


Pretty light coverage, but note the change from a nuclear attack scenario to one simulating an earthquake. If this were a precursor to another false flag op to "justify" the imposition of martial law, any old disaster would do. And since Portland has fewer earthquakes than, say, the Bay Area, that would be seen as a less likely and less suspicious scenario than other disasters more common to the region, like a volcano going ballistic.

Another thing of note: Bush is absolutely detested in Portland. His daddy called the city "little Beirut" for the vehemence of protesters (back when protesting wasn't a federal crime). And Bushie Jr. has been the subject of mass protests and some fairly serious cops/protester confrontations both times he's shown up since his 2001 coronation. Same with Cheney and anybody else in this administration who tries to sneak into town for a zillion-dollar fundraiser.


From the Portland Oregonian:

"Operation Noble Resolve is actually a rolling series of exercises -- "experiments," in the parlance of the U.S. Forces Joint Command -- taking place over two years in multiple jurisdictions. The command conducted one centered in southern Virginia in April, basing it on a simulated terrorist attack. It's all a preamble to a more complex exercise called TopOff that will take place in Portland this fall."

This is what blacklistednews says about TopOff (to run concurrently with an anti-terrorist exercise called Vigilant Shield):

"VS-08 will be conducted concurrent with Top Officials 4 (TOPOFF 4), the nation’s premier exercise of terrorism preparedness sponsored by the Department of Homeland Security, and several other linked exercises as part of the National Level Exercise 1-08. These linked exercises will take place Ocober 15-20 and are being conducted throughout the United States and in conjunction with several partner nations including Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom, as well as the Territory of Guam." Full story here: http://tinyurl.com/2o6c7r


However, pay it no mind, as the Whoregonian counsels:

"While some choose to view this exercise as sinister -- a pretext for a nuclear attack by the U.S. military on American citizens, according to some fevered speculation -- it is, in fact, a prudent thing to do."

Fevered speculators R us, I guess. More here:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/storie... ?/...


And this from democrats.com:

"NOBLE RESOLVE is too dangerous to allow in Oregon. This exercise, drilling War of Terror scenarios in Oregon, comes just as the media is filling up with warnings of a new 9/11 and the recent Presidential Executive Orders: NSPD 51, 5/10/07, "... allows the sitting president to declare a "national emergency" without Congressional approval..."

"It's looking more and more like a perfect storm of terror, treason and totalitarianism. Drills like these have a history of going live (e.g. 09/11/01 & 07/07/05) and now we have NSPD 51 — the equivalent of Hitler's Article 48." More here:

http://www.democrats.com/node/13811


Full thread here: http://tinyurl.com/292hcc


So...We've got a training exercise to prepare for the really big training exercise; we've got Chertoff's gut rumbling about a terraist attack, along with several highly place GOPers openly wishing for another 9/11 to save what's left of the party; we've got sabers rattling over Iran; we're out of troops, so an attack on Iran has to be from the air; we've been told their nukulur facilities are underground or case hardened and therefore we may need to use tactical nukes to take them out; now we've got five missing nukes ticketed (maybe) for the Gulf and an extra one for home use; we've got Vigilant Shield/TopOFF coming up in about a month; we've got two incidents of phony exercises suddenly going "live;" and we've got sociopaths running the executive branch. Sound like a bit of a problem to anyone?


Sleep well,

wp

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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting
Interesting that the leaker decided to leak so soon after Byush's secret departure from the US.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. And add the march on DC is on the 15
they have tried to stop it, fox news did...

Hmmm

As I said, in another era I'd expect the officers to pay with their careers for this snaffu... right now... something smells
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Did you see thread about Larry Johnson on the subject?
Link to Larry's No Quarter on the subject of Nukes On A Plane, along with some interesting replies:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/09/05/staging-nukes-for-iran/
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yeah, that is what brought t his thinking
Larry is thinking Iran...

And shivers ran down my back when I realized... what could they do wiht six misplaced nukes in the US with presidential codes?

The only reason we know they were "missing" is because somebody wrote this up and made a very classified incident very public

But yes, Iran is also in my mind
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. MeThinks You're Right.
:scared:
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. If you were going to, say, 'fake' an attack on a US city...
You'd need a device that SEEMED to be a stolen Soviet device, something on the small side. That W-80 series warhead has a variable yield from 5 to 150 kilotons, depending on specific serial number, and would 'seem' to be one of the infamous 'suitcase bombs' supposedly stolen when the Soviet empire fell...

Not that I'm trying to fuel a tin-foil theory. Just brainstormin' here...

You certainly would NOT use the entire missile.

I'm having a hard time buying the fact that we are 'shipping' old weapons on the external hardpoints of a freakin' operational nuclear bomber.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well moving them cruise missiles and NOT noticing
the warheads were not ahem, conventional raises way too many questions

The first, did they paint those warheads? If they did... then the broken arrow lasted more than four hours

I mean, com'on how in heaven's sake didn't the pilots notice they were transporting nuclear material?

I know, raising even MORE questions, and we both know that if one went off, even though techs can tell the origin of the weapon, our fearless leaders would NEVER EVER let that test be done
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hmm. I was conspiracy-ating along the same lines. NSA/FBI collaboration
on getting a group inside the military to look the other way while they obtain a weapon. Hell - I can see some poor military member being hoodwinked in one way or another.

Once the weapon is suitably altered and underground, it will eventually be guided into the wrong hands.

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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. 5-150 kilotons would be around what they would want to use...
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 08:33 PM by roamer65
to take out one of Iran's nuclear facilities like Natanz, correct?
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. See my post below and you are correct, nadin.
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 08:41 PM by roamer65
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Well that is ONE way to decomision them
now isn't it? :sarcasm:

But seriously I think there is a combination of things going on here...

And it is a very bad feeling
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
71. I'd say ease up on the tin foil.
For starters, nobody outside of the intelligence world--and maybe not even them--can be sure that those supposed "suitcase bombs" were ever actually built. I personally, based on my research suspect that they produced prototypes, but never an operational version.

As for shipping old nukes on bombers, of course that's normal. For starters, the planes are equipped to carry them; the pilots are authorized to be near them and know emergency proceedures; since they're external, there's no need for added security like if you put them in the cargo area of a C130; and the B52s have some pretty long range. What better way to carry the things?
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Paul Thompson or the new Paul Thompson - the timeline is already
in place - we need to see it fast and we need to shake our Congress.

Does anyone think it is a hopeless situation already because of Congress supposedly telling PNAC that it is OK to bomb Iran?

If yes, how could any human do that?

The time line also needs to include the UN findings and the what appears to be a lie coming from the WH or Pentagon about Iran running 3000 centrifigues. Is that the new drone and mobile wmd storage lie? 3000 centrifuges means they are one year away at the earliest - the just chopped off 7 or 8 years?

Who can do the time line - or - Paul, are you already working on it?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yes
I am very afraid itis too late. With this congress and this crop of conservative hawkish candidates, it will be bombs away Iran!

I so hope I am wrong. :(
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. I hate to say it, but that was my very first thought when I heard about this.
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 08:21 PM by Gregorian
I say "hate" because I really really don't think that way. Even after learning how many things there are that tend to lend the Trade Center disaster to it.

It's too far fetched. But then, I did think it. And so did you.

What a sad waste of time and energy these last few years have been. That's what I walk away with. Can you believe we're even thinking this way.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. It is a sign of our times
truly

Now last night I went, dry run for Iran... but after readying Johnson's account, more bells and alarms went off
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
47. Same here.
I would never have entertained such thoughts in my head 6 years ago. Now I do. If nothing else, it shows the level of fear this country has regarding it's own government. That's sad. I wonder how many people here fear the Bush administration more than terrorism. I do.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. or, they really want the world to know 6 warheads went missing
Leakers (3 officers) protecting from some rogue thing, sure one possibility.

Navy Times breaks the story and it's on Voice of America and CNN within an hour. Navy Times break a lot of sensitive stories?

So telling someone out there "hey look, here's how easy some nukes can go unaccounted for" seems maybe more likely to me. Why is another story.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Nuke don't disapear
what happened here is HIGHLY IRREGULAR...

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. for sure
Just highlighting how that info was BROADcast as opposed to being kept classified.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I realize that
that is why I am going... something STINKS

And they were trying to move five warheards WITHOUT proper handling and procedure.

Have you read the comments at Larry Johnson's blog?

My god that is why alarms are now going off inside my head

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/09/05/staging-nukes-for-iran/
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. agreed re: stinkage
Read those comments and the ones at Navy Times (who have updated story, http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_nuclear_warhead_070905/ Currently good link but screwy website, keeps moving stuff, try front page if broken later).

More details added and corrected to 6 nukes. But the linked discussion from service ppl most interesting. Too many steps to go wrong. Also some discuss neo-nazi infiltration of the military, also scary, as had such a plane crashed it wouldn't have been a Broken Arrow event.

From updated:

“It’s not like they had nuclear ACMs and conventional ACMs right next to each other and they just happened to load one with a nuclear warhead,” Kristensen (FAS) said.

The Defense Department uses a computerized tracking program to keep tabs on each one of its nuclear warheads, he said. For the six warheads to make it onto the B-52, each one would have had to be signed out of its storage bunker and transported to the bomber. Diligent safety protocols would then have had to been ignored to load the warheads onto the plane, Kristensen said.

All ACMs loaded with a nuclear warhead have distinct red signs distinguishing them from ACMs without a nuclear yield, he said. ACMs with nuclear warheads also weigh significantly more than missiles without them.

“I just can’t imagine how all of this happened,” said Philip Coyle, a senior adviser on nuclear weapons at the Center for Defense Information. “The procedures are so rigid; this is the last thing that’s supposed to happen.”

....


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Which brings us back to the original quesiton
how the hell didn't both the crew and the officers on the ground KNOW what they were transporting?

And most importantly WHY?

Saber ratling

Message to Iran

Preparation for false flag

and the fact we are talking of this in exactly this fashion is telling of the last almost seven years
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. People here are making a lot of unwarranted assumptions.
For instance, that the crew or the officers on the ground didn't know what was going on. They would have had to. The thing that went wrong was simply that the warheads weren't removed when they were supposed to be--and that could be as simple as a miscommunication between the ground crew and the CO.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Read the Navy News Website or the Larry Johnson blog
much of this is based on Service member experience

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. should also note Pakistan
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 09:21 PM by Snazzy
while I think of it. They were testing just this past week cruise missles which can take a nuke load. Probably considered very provocative in some quarters. Meanwhile we're in war games with India aren't we?


edit:

Pakistan test-fires new cruise missile
Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:39PM BST

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan successfully tested a new air-launched cruise missile with stealth design on Saturday, the military said in a statement.

The missile, named Hatf-8 (Ra'ad), has a range of 350 kms (220 miles) and can carry all types of warheads (i.e. nuke--Snazzy), the military said.

"The missile has a low detection probability due to stealth design and materials," it said.

The military said the missile would give its aircraft "a strategic stand-off capability on land and at sea".

The test came a month after Pakistan tested the nuclear-capable Babur Hatf VII cruise missile, which has a range of 700 km (435 miles). The Babur was first tested in 2005.

....

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL2552961620070825

-------------

Edit2: throw in story on wargames:

5 nation war games in Bay of Bengal seen as new Asia alliance to contain China

The Associated PressPublished: September 5, 2007

NEW DELHI: Indian and U.S. aircraft carriers plow through the Bay of Bengal launching fighter jets into the air. American submarines cruise below Japanese, Australian and Singaporean warships.

The stated aim of this week's massive war games off India's east coast is to improve the ability of the five participating militaries to fight terrorism and piracy. But in the five days of naval exercises that began Tuesday, experts see a broader strategic shift that is being driven in large part by the fear of a rising China.

At the center of Asia's new strategic landscape is the warming relationship between New Delhi and Washington — and, to a lesser extent, India and Japan — after decades spent on opposite sides of the Cold War divide.

China isn't the only issue drawing them closer — the nations have increasingly entwined economies and populations, for example — but it is certainly among the biggest.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/06/asia/AS-GEN-India-US-War-Games.php


Anyway--just brainstorming, could well be about Iran in number of ways.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Yeb, by the way here is a post from a former b-52 chief
at the navy times

UNBELIEVABLE. I’m not sure where to begin. I’m outraged and embarrassed! Back in 1979 we had to sign for nuclear weapons verifying serial numbers, the security folks posted two man guards at the aircraft, the cops enforced two man maintenance crews access to aircraft, the 781s are annotated, maintenance job control was informed, the wing command post was informed, weapons were moved in armed convoy, etc. How were the weapons removed from storage? Who was guarding the weapons military troopers or contractors? How were they transported to the aircraft? How were the aircraft forms updated? How was the chain of custody broken? Did the flight crew and munitions maintenance OICs verify weapons status? What the hell happened here? This is dereliction of duty, Wing CC, DCM, OMS/CC Munitions Sq/CC, Security Sq Commander and a lot of other folks should be going to jail, today !!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we have too many fighter pilots as generals. Maybe we need to split Air Combat Command back to the cold war days of SAC and TAC

Now I would like to highlight what he said about contractors...

Who was guarding the weapons military troopers or contractors?


contractors...

and if this was a mistake and it involves contractors, the chain of custody and command has now been fully infiltrated
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Shit. I hope they wouldn't allow a Blackwater type to control sensitive areas
like this. Wasn't it just reported that they were looking to buy airforce jets from Brazil? If we are wrong here we still definiteoy have to do something about Blackwater.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Not jets, prop jobs
not capable of carrying this ordnance.

Those prop jobs by the way are PUUURRRFECT for low intensity warfare... like oh I don't know a civil war or counter insurgency operations

But that question was just a question from this guy... and a propper one
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Ho-ly fuck! Is Blackwater acquiring (or attempting to acquire) nukes?
Gawd I'm going to have nightmares tonight.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. No what this guy asked is who is
guarding these things

Given that the forces are STRETCHED THIN and much base security is now done by contractors....

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Right. The fox (Blackwater) guarding the henhouse (the nukes)
All on Commander Bush's orders.

If they wanted a nuke (and I bet they do) it sounds like they could get one easily.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Wrong, it is not Blackwater
that I know... we saw them rent a cops (worst than black water) at bases in Hawaii

They were truly rent a cops... as in security guards

At least, and I usually don't defend black water, their people are former Spec Ops US Military... they'd take nuclear security a little more seriously than oh, insert rent a cop here.

But if you want to disapear a nuclear weapon... them rent a cops are ideal

And truly this is the stuff dr strangelove was written from.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
84. Pantex / BWXT
Tennessee.

Is the sole contractor for decommissioning the cruise missiles. Although I have done a little reading, I have yet to figure out who owns them, and more important, if they do work on site at say Barksdale/Minot.

Amazingly, the NRC reversed FOIA policy recently--unheard of in this gov. They decided the public has a right to know when 9 gallons of plutonium are spilled. Reversing some three years of secrecy (so I found last night, following may not cover all of that).

----------

BREAKING NEWS: NRC reverses secrecy policy


09/04/07
From Staff Reports
Respond to this story
Email this story to a friend

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has directed the agency staff to make publicly available many documents relating to the agency’s oversight of Nuclear Fuel Services in Erwin, Tenn., and BWX Technologies in Lynchburg, Va., that were previously withheld for security reasons.

The Commission, in a Staff Requirements Memorandum dated Aug. 31, overturned an August 2004 policy that considered most information regarding the two facilities as “official use only.” That policy was initiated in response to post-9/11 concerns that certain publicly available documents contained security-sensitive information.

Under the Commission’s new directive, the staff will review and release key documents relating to NFS and BWXT dated Jan. 1, 2004, or later. Information determined to meet agency guidelines for “Sensitive Unclassified Non- Safeguards Information,” or SUNSI, will be redacted. Future documents relating to NFS and BWXT that contain SUNSI are to be redacted and released to the public.

Approximately 1,900 documents relating to NFS and BWXT generated since Jan. 1, 2004, are not currently publicly available. The Commission directed the staff to review and release a subset of these documents that will give the public a record of the NRC’s oversight of these facilities. In addition to licensing actions and orders, the subset is to include inspection reports, licensee performance reviews, enforcement actions, event reports and other documents the staff determines to be relevant.

...


http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=592&NewsID=834907&CategoryID=7618&on=1

------------

But I wonder about the contractors who build the cruise missiles. Are they on base? I think Lockheed makes the missiles. Presumably the surety stuff meant that only military handles nukes after delivery. Has that shark jumped? Maybe has something to do with RRW (<<<---- good Google right there), reliable Replacement Warheads. Of course the US isn't just decommissioning for the hell of it. No Bushco wants to improve our warheads (tactical nukes) and trade up so that weapons which can take a nuke can go conventional and vice versa.

A battle in August which Buschco lost so far. I'll reproduce the whole thing here in order to keep in one place:

STATEMENT ON INTRODUCED BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS

Senate - August 1, 2007



________________________________

By Mrs. FEINSTEIN (for herself, Ms. COLLINS, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. FEINGOLD, and Mr. CASEY):

S. 1914., A bill to require a comprehensive nuclear posture review, and for other purposes; to the Committee on Armed Services.

Mrs. FEINSTEIN. Mr. President, I rise today with Senator Collins, Senator Durbin, Senator Feingold, Senator Kennedy, and Senator Casey to introduce legislation to authorize a comprehensive review of our nuclear weapons policy and posture.

Before we ramp up funding for the Reliable Replacement Warhead program as the administration has requested, we should have a clear, bipartisan consensus on the role nuclear weapons will play in our national security strategy and the impact they will have on our nuclear nonproliferation efforts.

The Nuclear Policy and Posture Review Act of 2007 does three things.

First, it authorizes the President to conduct a nuclear policy review to consider a range of possible roles of nuclear weapons in U.S. security policy. The administration may reach out to outside experts and conduct public hearings to get a wide range of views. The policy review will provide options and recommendations for a nuclear posture review.

This report is due on September 1, 2009.

Second, following the completion of the nuclear policy review, it authorizes the Secretary of Defense to conduct a comprehensive review of the nuclear posture of the U.S. to clarify U.S. nuclear deterrence policy and strategy. This report is due March 1, 2010.

Finally, it zeros out funding for the Reliable Replacement Warhead program until the policy review and posture review reports have been submitted to Congress.

In his testimony on March 29, 2007, before the House Energy & Water Appropriations Subcommittee, former Senator Sam Nunn, Chairman of Nuclear Threat Initiative, noted that:

On the itself, if Congress gives a green light to this program in our current world environment, I believe that this will be: misunderstood by our allies; exploited by our adversaries; complicate our work to prevent the spread and use of nuclear weapons and ..... make resolution of the Iran and North Korea challenges all the more difficult.

I could not agree more.

Indeed, I remain deeply concerned about this administration's nuclear weapons policy.

As a U.S. Senator, I have worked with colleagues in the House and Senate to stop the re-opening of the nuclear door and the development of new nuclear weapons.

Together, we have eliminated funding for the Advanced Concepts Initiative, the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, and the Modern Pit Facility.

These were consequential victories but the fight is far from over.

For fiscal year 2008, the administration requested $118 million for the Reliable Replacement Warhead program; $88 million in the National Nuclear Security administration's budget and $30 million in the Department of Defense's budget.

These funds would be used for Phase 2A activities: design definition and cost study.

This would represent approximately a four-fold increase over fiscal year 2007 funding of $24.7 million.

The House, however, rejected the administration's request and zeroed out funding for RRW in its fiscal year 2008 Energy and Water Development Appropriations bill. In its report accompanying the legislation, the House cited the lack of a definitive nuclear weapons policy review as a key reason for withholding funding for what will be a costly new nuclear warhead program. It stated:

The lack of any definitive analysis or strategic assessment defining the objectives of a future nuclear stockpile makes it impossible to weigh the relative merits of investing billions of taxpayer dollars in new nuclear weapon production activities when the United States is facing the problem of having too large a stockpile as a Cold War legacy. Currently, there exists no convincing rationale for maintaining the large number of existing Cold War nuclear weapons, much less producing additional warheads, or for the DoD requirements that drive the management of the DOE nuclear weapons complex.

While the Senate bill did not follow suit, it did cut $22 million from the administration's request, for a total of $66 million, and restricted activities to Phase 2A.

I believe we can match the House's action and this bill would do just that.

The administration is clearly getting nervous about the prospects for funding for RRW.

On Wednesday, the Secretaries of Energy, Defense, and State released a 4-page white paper on nuclear weapons strategy: ``National Security and Nuclear Weapons: Maintaining Deterrence in the 21st Century''. It affirmed the importance of maintaining a credible nuclear deterrent and sought to justify funding for the Reliable Replacement Warhead program. Among other things, it stated that the Reliable Replacement Warhead program is critical to sustaining long-term confidence in the nuclear stockpile and will help reduce the stockpile and move us away from nuclear testing; and any delay to the program will force the U.S. to maintain a larger stockpile, invest in costly and risky Life Extension Programs, and increase the likelihood that we will have to resume nuclear testing.

These arguments simply do not stand up to scrutiny.

Indeed the evidence clearly shows that there is no need to rush forward with increased funding for RRW. Let us take a close look at the status of our nuclear weapons arsenal.

Are there currently problems with the safety and reliability of our nuclear arsenal?

No, for each of the past 11 years the Secretary of Energy and Secretary of Defense have certified that the nuclear stockpile is safe and reliable.

Has the Pentagon asked for a new warhead for new missions?

No, there is no new military requirement to replace existing, well-tested warheads.

What about the plutonium pit, the ``trigger'' of a nuclear weapon? In past years, the administration requested funding for a Modern Pit Facility that could build up to 450

pits a year arguing that the pits in our current stockpile were reaching the end of their life-span.

Is our stockpile at risk due to aging pits?

No, a December 2006 report by the National Laboratories showed that plutonium pits have a life-span of at least 85 years, and possibly up to 100 years.

That report validated Congressional action to eliminate funding for the Modern Pit Facility. I am pleased that the administration listened and did not request funding for the facility in fiscal year 2007 and fiscal year 2008.

Are we at risk for resuming nuclear testing?

No, as I have argued our stockpile is safe and secure and will clearly remain so for the foreseeable future.

If the likelihood of resuming nuclear testing is increasing it is due to the fact that the administration has, in past years, requested funding to lower the time to test readiness at the Nevada test site from 24-36 months to 18 months and, above all, refused to support ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, CTBT.

What about costs? I find it interesting that the administration would cite the costs of successful Life Extension Programs as a reason to ramp up funding for the RRW.

Has the administration shared with us what it will cost to replace the warhead on our deployed nuclear arsenal with a new Reliable Replacement Warhead?

The answer is no. The administration has remained silent about when the supposed cost savings from RRW will ultimately kick in.

In fact, the development of a new nuclear warhead will likely add billions of dollars to the American taxpayer's bill at a time when, as noted above, the stockpile is safe and reliable. As the House Energy and Water Appropriations report argued:

Under any realistic future U.S. nuclear defense scenario, the existing legacy stockpile will continue to provide the nation's nuclear deterrent for well over the next two to three decades. The effort by the NNSA to apply urgency to developing a significant production capacity for the RRW while lacking any urgency to rationalize an oversized complex appears to mean simply more costs to the American taxpayer.

Before we move any further with this program which would add a new warhead to the stockpile, we should have a better understanding of the role nuclear weapons will play in our security policy in a post-Cold War and post 9/11 world.

If we as a country are going to move away from massive stockpiles of nuclear weapons and explore more conventional alternatives, does it make sense to add a new warhead to the stockpile?

If we are committed to strengthening the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and stopping the proliferation of nuclear weapons, what impact would a Reliable Replacement Warhead have on those efforts?

If the Stockpile Stewardship Program and the Life Extension Program can certify the safety and the reliability of our existing nuclear stockpile, should we shift resources from RRW to more pressing concerns?

It is common sense to ask these questions and engage in comprehensive review and debate about these options before we make the decision on manufacturing new warheads.

As it stands now, we are addressing this issue backwards and behind closed doors.

That is, we are rushing to develop a new warhead without an understanding of the role it will play in our nuclear weapons policy and national security strategy and without public input that will lead to a bipartisan policy.

Let us be clear: a rushed, four page white paper is simply not sufficient to answer these questions and make decisions about developing new nuclear warheads.

The administration has promised a more detailed report but its haste to put out this paper suggests that it is more intent on rushing the development of the Reliable Replacement Warhead program than in taking a sober, unbiased look at our nuclear weapons policy and posture.

A lack of a substantive debate and review means we are not paying sufficient attention to the potential negative consequences of RRW.

Speeding up the development of a new nuclear warhead may send the wrong message to Iran; North Korea; and other would-be nuclear weapon states and encourage the very proliferation we are trying to prevent.

What to us may appear to be a safer, more reliable weapon could appear to others to be a new weapon with new missions and a violation of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science issued a report last month acknowledging that a Reliable Replacement Warhead ``could lead to a final selected design that is certifiable without a nuclear test.''

Yet, the report also concluded that absent a comprehensive review of nuclear policy and stockpile needs, the purpose and intention of RRW could be widely misinterpreted abroad.

Pointing out that there has been no high level statement about nuclear weapons policy since the 2001 Nuclear Posture Review, it called on the administration to develop a bipartisan policy on the future of nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons policy before moving ahead with RRW. It stated:

In the absence of a clear nuclear posture, many interpretations are possible and the lack of a national understanding and consensus on the role of U.S. nuclear weapons puts any new approach at considerable risk at home and abroad. For example, an RRW plan that emphasizes the goal of sustaining the deterrent without nuclear testing could be perceived quite differently from one that focuses on future flexibility to develop and deploy nuclear weapons for new military mission.

It goes on to state: ..... nuclear weapons are ultimately an instrument of policy and strategy rather than of war fighting, and only with the leadership of the president can there be major changes in that instrument.

Unfortunately we have not seen such leadership from this administration.

Because it pursued the development of low-yield nuclear weapons and a Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, because it sought to lower the time-to-test readiness at the Nevada test site from 24-26 months to 18 months, because it sought to build a Modern Pit Facility that could produce up to 450 pits a year, this administration has lost the credibility to take a fresh and open look at nuclear weapons policy and posture.

Only a new administration, free from the constraints of the heated debates of the past, will have the authority to conduct a comprehensive review of our nuclear weapons policy and posture.

A bipartisan consensus on this policy is essential. It will let the world know exactly where we stand on these important issues and help clear up any confusion about our intentions.

Friend and foe alike will know that regardless of who holds power in Congress or the White House, the role of nuclear weapons in our security strategy will not change.

It will strengthen our efforts to convince other states to forego the development of nuclear weapons and make the world safer from the threat of nuclear war.

I believe that bipartisan policy is beginning to emerge.

In a January 4, 2007 op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, ``A World Free of Nuclear Weapons'', George Schultz, William Perry, Henry Kissinger, and Sam Nunn laid out a compelling vision for a world free of the threat of nuclear war.

They laid a set of common sense steps the U.S. and other nuclear weapon states can take to make this happen including: taking nuclear weapons off high-alert status; substantially reducing the size of nuclear stockpiles; eliminating short-ranged nuclear weapons; ratifying the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty; securing all stocks of weapons, weapons-usable plutonium, and highly enriched uranium around the world; getting control of the uranium enrichment process; stopping production of fissile material for nuclear weapons globally; resolving regional confrontations that encourage the development of nuclear weapons.

They conclude:

Reassertion of the vision of a world free of nuclear weapons and practical measures toward achieving that goal would be, and would be perceived as, a bold initiative consistent with America's moral heritage. The effort could have a profoundly positive impact on the security of future generations. Without that bold vision, the actions will not be perceived as fair or urgent. Without the actions, the vision will not be perceived as realistic or possible.

We should pay close attention to these words.

In conclusion, let me say that there is a big difference between an RRW program that increases the reliability of the existing stockpile and one that leads to a resumption of nuclear testing.

Congress should ask the tough questions to ensure that this is not a back door to new nuclear weapons with new missions and new rounds of testing.

I firmly believe we should zero out for the Reliable Replacement Warhead program until the next administration takes a serious look at our nuclear weapons programs and issues a bipartisan policy on the size of the future stockpile, testing, and nuclear nonproliferation efforts.

I look forward to working with my colleagues and the administration to craft that sensible, bipartisan nuclear weapons policy that will make Americans safe and allow us to reclaim a leadership role in the fight against nuclear proliferation.

I urge my colleagues to support this legislation.

I ask unanimous consent that the text of the bill be printed in the Record.

There being no objection, the text of the bill was ordered to be placed in the Record, as follows:



S. 1914

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ``Nuclear Policy and Posture Review Act of 2007''.

SEC. 2. REVISED NUCLEAR POLICY REVIEW AND NUCLEAR POSTURE REVIEW.

(a) Nuclear Policy Review.--

(1) IN GENERAL.--The President shall conduct a nuclear policy review to consider a range of options on the role of nuclear weapons in United States security policy. The policy review shall be coordinated by the National Security Advisor and shall include the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Energy, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and the Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy.

(2) SCOPE OF REVIEW.--The nuclear policy review conducted under paragraph (1) shall--

(A) address the role and value of nuclear weapons in the current global security environment;

(B) set forth short-term and long-term objectives of United States nuclear weapons policy;

(C) consider the contributions of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, done at Washington, London, and Moscow July 1, 1968 (commonly referred to as the ``Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty''), to United States national security, and include recommendations for strengthening the Treaty;

(D) explore the relationship between the nuclear policy of the United States and nonproliferation and arms control objectives and international treaty obligations, including obligations under Article VI of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty;

(E) determine the role and effectiveness of the Treaty Between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms, signed at Moscow July 31, 1991 (commonly referred to as the ``START I Treaty''), and the Treaty Between the United States of America and the Russian Federation on Strategic Offensive Reductions, done at Moscow May 24, 2002 (commonly referred to as the ``Moscow Treaty''), in achieving the national security and nonproliferation goals of the United States and in implementing United States military strategy, and describe the elements of a recommended successor treaty, including verification provisions; and

(F) provide policy guidance and make recommendations for the nuclear posture review to be conducted under subsection (b).

(3) OUTSIDE INPUT.--The policy review shall include contributions from outside experts and, to the extent possible, shall include public meetings to consider a range of views.

(b) Nuclear Posture Review.--

(1) IN GENERAL.--Following completion of the nuclear policy review under subsection (a), the Secretary of Defense shall conduct a comprehensive review of the nuclear posture of the United States to clarify United States nuclear deterrence policy and strategy. The Secretary shall conduct the review in collaboration with the Secretary of Energy, the Secretary of State, the Director of National Intelligence, and the National Security Advisor.

(2) ELEMENTS OF REVIEW.--The nuclear posture review conducted under paragraph (1) shall include the following elements:

(A) The role of nuclear forces in United States military strategy, planning, and programming, including the extent to which conventional forces can assume roles previously assumed by nuclear forces.

(B) The policy requirements and objectives for the United States to maintain a safe, reliable, and credible nuclear deterrence posture, in light of the guidance provided by the nuclear policy review conducted under subsection (a).

(C) The targeting strategy required to implement effectively the guidance provided by the nuclear policy review conducted under subsection (a).

(D) The levels and composition of the nuclear delivery systems that will be required for implementing the United States national and military strategy, including any plans for removing, replacing, or modifying existing systems.

(E) The nuclear weapons complex that will be required for implementing the United States national and military strategy, including any plans to consolidate, modernize, or modify the complex.

(F) The active and inactive nuclear weapons stockpile that will be required for implementing the United States national and military strategy, including any plans for replacing or modifying warheads.

(G) An account of the different nuclear postures considered in the review and the reasoning for the selection of the nuclear posture.

(c) Reports Required.--

(1) NUCLEAR POLICY REVIEW.--Not later than September 1, 2009, the President shall submit to Congress a report on the results of the nuclear policy review conducted under subsection (a).

(2) NUCLEAR POSTURE REVIEW.--Not later than March 1, 2010, the President shall submit to Congress a report on the results of the nuclear posture review conducted under subsection (b).

(3) FORM.--Each report required under this subsection shall be submitted in unclassified form, but may contain a classified annex.

(d) Sense of Congress on Use of Nuclear Posture Review.--It is the sense of Congress that the nuclear policy review conducted under subsection (a) should be used as the basis for establishing future strategic arms control objectives and negotiating positions of the United States.

(e) Restriction on Funding of Reliable Replacement Warhead Program.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no funds may be appropriated or otherwise made available for the Reliable Replacement Warhead Program for fiscal years 2008, 2009, or 2010 until the reports required under subsection (c) have been submitted to Congress.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Yep that is the decon crews
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 10:56 PM by nadinbrzezinski
I am talking BASIC base security, which is rent-a-cop run these days.

Nothing scarier than seeing rent a cops at gates of mission critical facilities

On the other hand, after 9.11 a local base where I currently live had such shoddy security it wasn't even funny
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
57. contractors, yikes
I hope they don't have contractors hooking up cruise missiles to b52s--that's one fine way to do an end run around all the military chain of custody stuff. Nothing would surprise me in this Rummy-brand outsourced military. And of course contractors are responsible for decommissioning these weapons. But on-site?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. They have outsourced so much of the US
Military that I shudder to think about it
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Actually, the inverse is true...
The nukes are lighter than conventional warheads. By about 700 pounds.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. Malloy just read from an article that Barksdale AFB is a launching point...
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 08:40 PM by roamer65
for ops in the ME. Those nukes are for use against Iran, IMO. God bless whomever leaked this to the press.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. well regardless can you say WW III
I am not kidding.... we do this... and it will get ugly fast

But I would not be too surprised if at least one is used as a false flag in the US

and six years ago, you'd never have me even think this way, outside of fiction plotting that is
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. It will be difficult to hide using one of our own nukes in the US.
Spectral analysis of the fissile fragments would no doubt lead right back to American enriched uranium.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You are right, but that asumes we let anybody do the testing
I will give you some dots to connect

1.- Shrwartzeneger has signed a contract with Black Water

2.- The Feds have said that they will forbid "volunteers" into disaster areas (I'd say witnesses)

3.- We are tighthly controlling even the access of local officials to local disasters

Something's up...

Now as to shwartzie signing that, just struck me as odd.

Not that califoornia will be a target mind you... but Cought San Fran Cough, would not shock me
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. And the BushCo DOE handles that...
Did you read the reports on air quality at the 9/11 site?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Yeah and trust me, where I used to work
we knew standard were at times lax... that report made me feel all warm and fuzy about our oversight.

I used to be a rescue worker in Mexico...
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #31
75. As difficult to hide as
the fact that the anthrax that killed and sickened several Americans was traced back to a military lab? Yeah, we know about it, but does anyone else?

If the network news anchors and cable news talking heads were scared into not reporting that story, they would soil themselves with fear over this.
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. I agree... just a logistical slip in the mobilization for the Iranium War
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. The B-52s misplaced nukes?
Edited on Wed Sep-05-07 08:47 PM by rocknation
TRAITORS!



:mad:
rocknation
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I wish it was THAT kind of nukes
:-)
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. Damn You... I was just going to respond with a J'Accuse directed
at Fred! :)
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
64. Escept that the USA is being turned into a death shack, not a love shack....
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. I just realized
I'm sitting here contemplating my own government dropping nuclear bombs on me. Wow. This about sums up the Bush years does it not? I'm out of cuss words. It's just THAT BAD.

Next week makes me very very nervous.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. You and me, yes
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Target: Iran
I think it was leaked because Iran is next.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. I don't think so. They wouldn't need to LIE and create any silly cover story for that.
Their entire "we thought the warheads had been removed" excuse
is laughable. And a LEGITIMATE transfer of military weapons
to ANYWHERE doesn't require any excuse at all.

Something much dirtier was being attempted here, and someone
in the military blew the whistle on it; now they're scrambling
to explain it away.

(IMHO, of course. They may just be trying to cover up the fact
that our nuclear arsenal security is incompetent and slapdash.
Maybe these screwups happen all the time, and someone just got
so sick of it that they went to the media.)

But whatever it is, it's something they feel the need to cover up.
I don't think an ordered transfer to the Gulf theater qualifies.

We have nukes in the area already- they don't LIE about that if
asked, they simply say "no comment". So, this is different.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. No, our nuclear security was not hap hazard
this is so out of the ordinary that it is NOT even funny

Also we have two numbers running around, which means the math does not add up

this falls in the category of either greatest screwup in the United States Air Force

Or the set up for something major and the leak is a huge warning
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. I've certainly always heard that they take nuke security VERY seriously.
No, I offered that as a possibility, but I don't
think it's true. I think someone was trying to do
something with those nukes that doesn't fall under
any military procedure.

WHAT that might be, we'll probably never know.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. And in the process all kinds of chain of custory
protocols were violated

Hell the US Military does not move a case of 50 cal ammo wihtout filling forms in triplicate...

That is why all this stinks to more than just high heaven...

And why I hope my bad feeling is just that, a bad feeling, and this was truly a screw up of royal proportions
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #58
80. Their explanation is impossible
In order to load a nuke warhead onto the ACM, they must have:

1) An order to remove the nuke from storage. Such an order would have to come from on high, in fact, I do not believe that such an order came from anyone less than Bush, and by Bush of course, I mean Cheney.

2) The warheads must then be "signed out".

3) The warheads must be installed on a specially designed ACM.

4) The pilots of the B-52 MUST KNOW they are carrying nukes, since failing to tell them would mean they would not program the avionics correctly, nor using the proper take off procedure for the extra weight. The end result would be a crash, or near crash,

As to speculation of the nukes being used in the US, I wish I could say it is impossible, but at best I can only say it is unlikely.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Just for hypothetical's sake, I've had two more thoughts which might explain this...
...and explain why they need to lie and cover it up:


#1: Israel
Everyone knows Israel has nukes, and they don't
build them themselves- they get them from the USA.
Much of the nuclear material we have officially listed
as "lost" over the years is actually sitting in Israel
in bomb form.

These six warheads may have been scheduled to be delivered
there, while being listed as "decommissioned" here.


#2: Iran

No, not to use OPENLY against Iran (no secrecy required there),
but as a false-flag operation.

Set the warhead to its lowest yield, send the cruise missile
on a ground-hugging, radar-avoiding course into the most remote
and isolated area of Iran...and then scream to the world that
Iran just successfully tested a small nuke.

THAT strikes me as exactly the sort of thing this misAdministration
would do.



All just :tinfoilhat: musings, of course!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. Israel builds its own nukes
why do you think they had a cow when the Netanyah facilty was revealed to the british press some years ago

We also know from open source that they have anywhere from 300 to 400 warheads

All built in house, and only a few using material that went misisng in the 1960s and not from US stocks either

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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
51. FAS has an article on the implications of the "Minot incident"
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Yes it does look like a breakdown in the custody
and all that happy horse

which makes me go hmm

Mind you, seven years ago I would have gone... damn accident, shit happens, shouldn't but happens

today I go... hmm what the hell is going on
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
52. No.
This is wild-eyed conjecture at its worst.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
74. Agreed. People are losing their minds over this.
Yes, it was a protocol breach. Yes, some people deserved to, and will, lose their jobs over it. But a grand conspiracy it is not.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Six years ago, agreed
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 01:33 AM by nadinbrzezinski
nobody, or very few people, would even entertain these thoughts

After the last six years, you have to consider the worst case scenario on everything they do (in this case a false flag or iran), and hope for the best, (a snafu of epic proportions)

I'm not going crazy over this, but I ain't hiding my head in the sand either
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. Out of curiousity, what's given you these thoughts?
What's made you think that the Bush administration, incapable of pulling off even a reasonably competant PR move, would be able to execute something like what you're describing? These are the people who, a year after 9/11 when everybody was scared and stupid out of their minds, couldn't even convince a majority of the American public that immediate action against Iraq was neccessary--they only fell in line after Bush launched the invasion. Every move since then has pretty much been either the most transparently sleazy kind of spin, or a self-immolation of one type or another.

My opinion of the Bushies is that there's no evil geniuses in that crew--they're the greatest case of failing upwards the world has ever seen. If they tried to bomb Iran, I'd be more worried if I were standing in Turkey.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Oh yes they are stupid
Which is why concerned citizens ask what the hell is going on when we see our military all of a sudden get its hand stuck in the nuclear cookie jar.

I'll see Cheney's 1% and raise him 1%.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. The history of the bush family
and the fact that there are way, and I mean WAAYYYY to many things that don't jibe about the 9.11 story

In fact, even British reporters (fisk to be specific) are now starting to write this

There are things of the 9.11 story that do not make any sense

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WHAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
77. this is off topic, but not really...
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 02:17 AM by WHAT
question answered above. I should have read first.

edit out stupidity
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
78. Maybe this was a leak FROM Bushco - to let us know they can kill us any time.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #78
87. Perhaps
and it is part of the pattern, keep them scared
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
79. The way our CBC News covered it
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 10:26 AM by Canuckistanian
They said that the most disturbing thing about the incident was that the protocols for handling nuclear weapons must have completely broken down. There is normally a 'zero-tolerance' for failure to follow those protocols. They said that some steps normally involved must not have happened.

It should be interesting to see whether this was REALLY considered a "mistake" or not. If it was, there should be some high-level dismissals and charges filed.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. Reaching for the tinfoil and making some asumptions
1.- They intended to move these weapons, without following procedure.. for what uses? Well speculation is your friend here.

2.- Someobdy leaked it because it broke all kinds of procedure. And I am not talking of a low level enlisted, but a senior field level officer if not general level, who could cover tracks

3.- There will be dismissals, perhaps even a high profile court martial and some will fall on them swords, to cover this up and make people think this was a snaffu of epic proportions
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