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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:43 PM
Original message
Barack Obama - Straight Talk on Cuba
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 09:43 PM by Mika
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=75680
"We must not lose sight of our fundamental goal: freedom a-la Miami in Cuba. At the same time, we should be pragmatic in our approach and clear sighted about the effects of our policies. We all know the power and results of the freedom and opportunity that America has both embodied and advanced in Latin America. If deployed wisely through tough immigration laws, those ideals will have as transformative effect on Cubans today, attracting their most skilled workers, professionals and athletes to make the United States even greater."
- Barack Obama - Straight Talk on Cuba. Miami, August 2007


===

http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/cubahistory.html
We must impose a harsh blockade so that hunger and its constant companion, disease, undermine the peaceful population and decimate the Cuban army… we must create conflicts for the independent government…. These difficulties must coincide with the unrest and violence among the aforementioned elements, to whom we must give our backing… our policy must always be to support the weaker against the stronger, until we have obtained the extermination of them both, in order to annex the Pearl of the Antilles {Cuba}.”
- US Undersecretary of War, J.C. Breckenridge, 1897




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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. thanks....why doesn't he just STFU about Cuba?
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 10:06 PM by Gabi Hayes
sickening

I'm no fan of Castro, but this is pandering at its most shameless

for those who don't like it, google CANF
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. you don't think we should normalize relations with Cuba? n/t
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. read Obama's very last line, if not the entire sentence.
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 09:59 PM by Gabi Hayes
what the hell does he mean?

sounds like Goering to me.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. i noticed that....
why can`t the cubans have their own baseball teams to play in the mlb? neo liberals out to save the great unwashed...
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. really really sad, isn't it? and...I forget, where's ronnieland?
out by the Rock River?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. the river runs through it
it`s ronny and abe....i prefer dixon be remembered for abe and for "father dixon" who traded fairly with the indians thus they named him father...
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Sadly, extermination is the American Way.
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 10:44 PM by Mika
Obama was pandering to the Miamicuban rightwing elements (who pay attention to most everything that Fidel Castro says and writes). I think that Obama, when mentioning "...attracting their most skilled workers, professionals and athletes to make the United States even greater...", was responding to this article written by President Fidel Castro.

No matter how much sense Fidel might make, he has to be countered, refuted, threatened - in Miami. Obama panders in doing so.


http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/2007/ing/c170707i.html">THE BRAIN DRAIN
I mentioned something and included a quotation on this topic for an example I used in my last reflection, titled "Bush, Health and Education", which I dedicated to children. In this reflection, aimed at the first class to graduate from the University of Information Sciences (UCI), I shall delve more deeply into this thorny issue.

These graduates were the pioneers, from whom I learned much about the intelligence and the values our young people can cultivate when they study assiduously. I also learned much from the excellent staff of professors, a great many of whom had studied at the José Antonio Echevarría University Complex (CUJAE).

Neither can I avoid to mention the example of the social workers, whose organizational skills and spirit of sacrifice enriched my knowledge and afforded me new experiences, nor the thousands of educators who graduated recently, who made the goal of having one teacher for every 15 students, in the seventh, eighth and ninth grades of our junior high schools a reality. All of them began their university studies almost simultaneously, infused with the ideas which were born and were applied in the battle to have a 6 year old child who had been kidnapped returned to his family and homeland, a child for whom we were willing to give our all.

In two days, 1,334 computer sciences engineers from around the country, whose exemplary conduct and knowledge earned them university scholarships, shall graduate from UCI. Of these, 1,134 have been assigned to different ministries, which provide important services to our people, and to state agencies which manage crucial economic resources. A centralized reserve of 200 young and carefully selected graduates, which shall grow larger every year, awaits different assignments. This reserve is made up of graduates from all of the country's provinces who shall stay lodged at UCI residences. A total of 56 percent are males and 44 percent females.

UCI opens its doors to young people from Cuba's 169 municipalities. It is not grounded in the model of exclusion and competition among human beings which developed capitalist countries advocate.

Our world order appears to have been designed to foster the egoism, individualism and dehumanization of humanity.

A Reuters press dispatch published on May 3, 2006, titled “African brain drain deprives Africa of vital talent”, reports that, in Africa, "it is estimated that some 20,000 skilled professionals are leaving the continent every year, depriving Africa of the doctors, nurses, teachers and engineers it needs to break a cycle of poverty and under-development". Reuters adds that "the World Health Organization (WHO) says that Sub-Saharan Africa bears 24 percent of the world's global burden of disease including HIV/AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis. To face that challenge, it has just 3 percent of the world’s health workers”. “In Malawi, only 5 percent of physicians' posts and 65 percent of nursing vacancies are filled. In the country of 10 million, one doctor serves 50,000 people”.

Quoting a report from the World Bank, the dispatch reports that, "stymied by conflict, poverty, lethal diseases and corruption, much of Africa is in no position to compete with richer countries that promise higher salaries, better working conditions and political stability”.

“Brain drain deals a double blow to weak economies, which not only lose their best human resources and the money spent training them, but then have to pay an estimated $5.6 billion a year to employ expatriates”.

The phrase ??brain drain” was coined in the 1960s, when the United States began to hoard UK doctors. In that case, one developed country dispossessed another; one emerged from the Second World War in 1944 with 80 percent of the world’s gold reserve in bullions, the other had been severely hit and deprived of its empire in the course of the war.

A World Bank report titled "International migration, remittances and the brain drain", made public in October 2005, yielded the following results:
In the last 40 years, more than 1.2 million professionals from Latin America and the Caribbean have emigrated to the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom. An average of 70 scientists a day has emigrated from Latin America in the course of 40 years.

Of the 150 million people around the world involved in science and technology activities, 90 percent is concentrated in the seven most industrialized nations.

A number of countries, particularly small nations in Africa, the Caribbean and Central America, have lost over 30 percent of their population with higher education as a result of migration
.
The Caribbean islands, where nearly all nations are English-speaking, report the world's highest brain drain. In some of these islands, 8 of every 10 university graduates have left their native countries.

More than 70 percent of software programmers employed by the US Company Microsoft Corporation are from India and Latin America.

The intense migratory movements, from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union towards Western Europe and North America, which began following the collapse of the socialist block, are worthy of special mention.

The International Labor Organization (ILO) points out that the number of scientists and engineers who abandon their native countries and emigrate to industrialized nations is about one third of the number of those who stay in their native countries, something which significantly depletes indispensable human resource reserves.

The ILO report maintains that the migration of students is a precursor of the brain drain. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) reported that, at the beginning of the new millennium, a bit more than 1.5 million foreign students pursued higher studies in member states and that, of these, more than half were from non-OECD countries. Of this total, nearly half a million studied in the United States, one quarter of a million in the United Kingdom and nearly 200 thousand in Germany.

Between 1960 and 1990, the United States and Canada received more than one million professional immigrants and experts from Third World countries.

These figures are but a pale reflection of the tragedy.

In recent years, encouraging this type of emigration has become an official state policy in a number of North countries, which use incentives and procedures especially tailored to suit this end.

The American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act —approved by the US Congress in 2000— increased the temporary work visa (H-1B) allotment, from 65 thousand to 115 thousand in the 2000 fiscal year and then to 195 thousand for fiscal years 2001 through 2003. The aim of this increase in the visa cap was to encourage the entry into the United States of highly qualified immigrants who could occupy positions in the high-technology sector. Though this figure was reduced to 65 thousand in the 2005 fiscal year, the flow of professionals towards this country has remained steady.

Similar measures were promulgated by the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada and Australia. Since 1990, this last country prioritized the intake of highly qualified workers, primarily for sectors such as banking, insurance and the so-called knowledge economy.

In nearly all cases, the selection criteria are based on the worker's high qualifications, language proficiency, age, work experience and professional achievements. The UK program grants extra points to medical doctors.

This relentless plundering of brains in South countries dismantles and weakens programs aimed at training human capital, a resource which is needed to rise from the depths of underdevelopment. It is not limited to the transfer of capital; it also entails the import of grey matter, which nips a country's nascent intelligence and future at the bud.

Between 1959 and 2004, Cuba has graduated 805,902 professionals, including medical doctors. The United States' unjust policy towards our country has deprived us of 5.16 percent of the professionals who graduated under the Revolution.

However, not even the elite of immigrant workers enjoy work conditions and salaries like those of US nationals. In order to avoid the complicated paperwork which US labor legislation requires and reduce the costs of immigration procedures, the United States has gone as far as creating a software ship-factory which keeps highly-qualified slaves anchored in international waters, in a kind of assembly plant which produces all manner of digital devices. Project SeaCode consists of a ship, anchored more than three miles off the coast of California (international waters), with 600 Indian computer scientists on board, who work an uninterrupted 12 hour daily shift for four months out at sea.

The trend towards the privatization of knowledge and the internalization of scientific research companies subordinated to big capital has been creating a kind of "scientific apartheid" which affects the vast majority of the world's population.

The United States, Japan and Germany combined have a percentage of the world's population similar to that of Latin America, but their investment in research and development is of 52.9 percent, as opposed to 1.3 percent in the latter. Today's economic gap foreshadows what tomorrow's may be if these trends are not reversed.

That future is already upon us. The so-called new economy mobilizes immense capital flows each year. According to a 2006 report published by Digital Planet, a World Information Technology and Services Alliance (WITSA) publication, the global Information and Communications Technology (ICT) market accounted for three trillion US dollars in 2006.

More and more people have access to the Internet each day —in July 9, 2007, the figure was almost 1.4 billion users. However, in many countries, including numerous developed ones, the people with no access to this service continue to be the majority. The digital gap spells dramatic differences, whereby part of humanity, fortunate and connected, has more information at its disposal than any generation before it ever had.

To have an idea of what this means, suffice it two compare two realities: while more than 70 percent of the population of the United States has access to the Internet, only 3 percent of Africa's entire population has such access. Internet service providers are based in high-income countries, where a mere 16 percent of the world's population lives.

The underprivileged situation our group of countries faces within these global information networks, the Internet and all modern means used to transfer information and images must urgently be addressed.

A society in which millions of human beings are considered superfluous, the brain drain of South countries constitutes a common practice and economic power and new technologies are wielded by only a handful of nations cannot be called human, not by a long shot. Overcoming this dilemma is as important for the destiny of humanity as mitigating the climate change crisis which scourges the planet, two problems which are completely interrelated.

To conclude, I need only add:

Whoever has a computer has all published knowledge at their disposal and the privileged memory of the machine belongs to them too.

Ideas are born of knowledge and ethical values. An important part of the problem would be technologically solved, another must be cultivated restlessly. Otherwise, the most basic instincts shall prevail.

The task ahead of UCI graduates is grandiose. I hope you are able to fulfill it. I am confident that you will.

Fidel Castro Ruz
July 17, 2007
11:05 am



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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Same shit, different day.
Thanks for posting that. Disgusting. :puke:

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. jesus christ, if it is`t the neocons it`s the neolibs
there really is`t any hope nor reasoning is there
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. hey, Obama the American Blair! Reason magazine called, they want their left-baiting back
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Darth_Ole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I suppose I'm missing something...
But maybe someone can explain how you're comparing Obama's quote with Breckenridge's? Especially the person who said something like, "Same shit, different day."

Also, does anyone have a link to Obama's full speech? I'd like to read the whole quote with context... As it is, this reminds me of when everyone thought Obama was going to invade Pakistan until they read/saw the whole speech...
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Because he is talking about US controlling Cuba.
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 01:31 AM by Mika
"We must not lose sight of our fundamental goal: freedom a-la Miami in Cuba.


How dare Obama declare that OUR FUNDAMENTAL GOAL is to deliver "freedom a-la Miami" to Cuba.
What if Cubans in Cuba don't want "freedom a-la Miami in Cuba"? (And they don't, believe me.)

I somehow doubt that most Americans want "freedom a-la Miami" where they live.


http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-04-20/news/mullin/
Lawless violence and intimidation have been hallmarks of el exilio for more than 30 years. Given that fact, it's not only understandable many people would be deeply worried, it's prudent to be worried. Of course it goes without saying that the majority of Cuban Americans in Miami do not sanction violence, but its long tradition within the exile community cannot be ignored and cannot simply be wished away.

The following list of violent incidents I compiled from a variety of databases and news sources (a few come from personal experience). It is incomplete, especially in Miami's trademark category of bomb threats. Nor does it include dozens of acts of violence and murder committed by Cuban exiles in other U.S. cities and at least sixteen foreign countries. But completeness isn't the point. The point is to face the truth, no matter how difficult that may be. If Miami's Cuban exiles confront this shameful past -- and resolutely disavow it -- they will go a long way toward easing their neighbors' anxiety about a peaceful future.

1968 From MacArthur Causeway, pediatrician Orlando Bosch fires bazooka at a Polish freighter. (City of Miami later declares "Orlando Bosch Day." Federal agents will jail him in 1988.)

1972 Julio Iglesias, performing at a local nightclub, says he wouldn't mind "singing in front of Cubans." Audience erupts in anger. Singer requires police escort. Most radio stations drop Iglesias from playlists. One that doesn't, Radio Alegre, receives bomb threats.

1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba.

1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

1974 Several small Cuban businesses, citing threats, stop selling Replica.

1974 Three bombs explode near a Spanish-language radio station.

1974 Hector Diaz Limonta and Arturo Rodriguez Vives murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1975 Luciano Nieves murdered after advocating peaceful coexistence with Cuba.

1975 Another bomb damages Replica's office.

1976 Rolando Masferrer and Ramon Donestevez murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1976 Car bomb blows off legs of WQBA-AM news director Emilio Milian after he publicly condemns exile violence.

1977 Juan José Peruyero murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1979 Cuban film Memories of Underdevelopment interrupted by gunfire and physical violence instigated by two exile groups.

1979 Bomb discovered at Padron Cigars, whose owner helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1979 Bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Powerful anti-personnel bomb discovered at American Airways Charter, which arranges flights to Cuba.

1981 Bomb explodes at Mexican Consulate on Brickell Avenue in protest of relations with Cuba.

1981 Replica's office again damaged by a bomb.

1982 Two outlets of Hispania Interamericana, which ships medicine to Cuba, attacked by gunfire.

1982 Bomb explodes at Venezuelan Consulate in downtown Miami in protest of relations with Cuba.

1982 Bomb discovered at Nicaraguan Consulate.

1982 Miami Mayor Maurice Ferre defends $10,000 grant to exile commando group Alpha 66 by noting that the organization "has never been accused of terrorist activities inside the United States."

1983 Another bomb discovered at Replica.

1983 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1983 Bomb explodes at Paradise International, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1983 Bomb explodes at Little Havana office of Continental National Bank, one of whose executives, Bernardo Benes, helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1983 Miami City Commissioner Demetrio Perez seeks to honor exile terrorist Juan Felipe de la Cruz, accidentally killed while assembling a bomb. (Perez is now a member of the Miami-Dade County Public School Board and owner of the Lincoln-Martí private school where Elian Gonzalez is enrolled.)

1983 Gunfire shatters windows of three Little Havana businesses linked to Cuba.

1986 South Florida Peace Coalition members physically attacked in downtown Miami while demonstrating against Nicaraguan contra war.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cuba Envios, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cubanacan, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Car belonging to Bay of Pigs veteran is firebombed.

1987 Bomb explodes at Machi Viajes a Cuba, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes outside Va Cuba, which ships packages to Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes at Miami Cuba, which ships medical supplies to Cuba.

1988 Bomb threat against Iberia Airlines in protest of Spain's relations with Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes outside Cuban Museum of Art and Culture after auction of paintings by Cuban artists.

1988 Bomb explodes outside home of Maria Cristina Herrera, organizer of a conference on U.S.-Cuba relations.

1988 Bomb threat against WQBA-AM after commentator denounces Herrera bombing.

1988 Bomb threat at local office of Immigration and Naturalization Service in protest of terrorist Orlando Bosch being jailed.

1988 Bomb explodes near home of Griselda Hidalgo, advocate of unrestricted travel to Cuba.

1988 Bomb damages Bele Cuba Express, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Another bomb discovered at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Two bombs explode at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1990 Another, more powerful, bomb explodes outside the Cuban Museum of Art and Culture.

1991 Using crowbars and hammers, exile crowd rips out and urinates on Calle Ocho "Walk of Fame" star of Mexican actress Veronica Castro, who had visited Cuba.

1992 Union Radio employee beaten and station vandalized by exiles looking for Francisco Aruca, who advocates an end to U.S. embargo.

1992 Cuban American National Foundation mounts campaign against the Miami Herald, whose executives then receive death threats and whose newsracks are defaced and smeared with feces.

1992 Americas Watch releases report stating that hard-line Miami exiles have created an environment in which "moderation can be a dangerous position."

1993 Inflamed by Radio Mambí commentator Armando Perez-Roura, Cuban exiles physically assault demonstrators lawfully protesting against U.S. embargo. Two police officers injured, sixteen arrests made. Miami City Commissioner Miriam Alonso then seeks to silence anti-embargo demonstrators: "We have to look at the legalities of whether the City of Miami can prevent them from expressing themselves."

1994 Human Rights Watch/Americas Group issues report stating that Miami exiles do not tolerate dissident opinions, that Spanish-language radio promotes aggression, and that local government leaders refuse to denounce acts of intimidation.

1994 Two firebombs explode at Replica magazine's office.

1994 Bomb threat to law office of Magda Montiel Davis following her videotaped exchange with Fidel Castro.

1996 Music promoter receives threatening calls, cancels local appearance of Cuba's La Orquesta Aragon.

1996 Patrons attending concert by Cuban jazz pianist Gonzalo Rubalcaba physically assaulted by 200 exile protesters. Transportation for exiles arranged by Dade County Commissioner Javier Souto.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Little Havana's Centro Vasco restaurant preceding concert by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1996 Arson committed at Tu Familia Shipping, which ships packages to Cuba.

1997 Bomb threats, death threats received by radio station WRTO-FM following its short-lived decision to include in its playlist songs by Cuban musicians.

1998 Bomb threat empties concert hall at MIDEM music conference during performance by 91-year-old Cuban musician Compay Segundo.

1998 Bomb threat received by Amnesia nightclub in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban musician Orlando "Maraca" Valle.

1998 Firebomb explodes at Amnesia nightclub preceding performance by Cuban singer Manolín.

1999 Violent protest at Miami Arena performance of Cuban band Los Van Van leaves one person injured, eleven arrested.

1999 Bomb threat received by Seville Hotel in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes. Hotel cancels concert.

January 26, 2000 Outside Miami Beach home of Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, protester displays sign reading, "Stop the deaths at sea. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.

April 11, 2000 Outside home of Elian Gonzalez's Miami relatives, radio talk show host Scot Piasant of Portland, Oregon, displays T-shirt reading, "Send the boy home" and "A father's rights," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.



Only an ignoramus (or a US imperialist) would suggest that anyone would want "freedom a-la Miami".
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. the freedom and opportunity
that America has both embodied and advanced in Latin America.

In bizzaro opposite world maybe.

But really, just ask this guy:

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Darth_Ole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Alright, I can see that...
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 11:27 PM by Darth_Ole
Especially efforts like the Alliance for Progress which widened the gap between rich and poor in Latin America and only fermented bloody revolutions that put tyrannical military regimes in place...

BUT, where does Obama indicate we would continue to follow imperialistic policies toward Cuba? He's talked about easing the blockade, which directly contrasts with Breckenridge's 1897 quote about a harsh blockade to crush the people. Obama's talking about freedom being our goal... And I know we've been hearing this stuff about spreading freedom since the Mexican-American War, but how is Obama's stance "Same shit, different day"?
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I actually didn't quite understand what he was suggesting
in regards to Cuba. Immigration policy whaa? To poach their best people? Am I missing something here?
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. How about this..
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 01:12 AM by Mika
From Obama..
If deployed wisely through tough immigration laws, those ideals will have as transformative effect on Cubans today, attracting their most skilled workers, professionals and athletes to make the United States even greater


Cuba doesn't have much. Its a poor country suffering a US extra territorial embargo.

One of the few things that Cuba has is its professional social(ized) infrastructure, so Obama would think that in order to have a transformative effect on Cuba we must set up policies that attract Cuba's MOST skilled workers and professionals away from Cuba to make the US even greater? Must the US bleed Cuba dry and kill it in order to "save" it? In order to make Cuba a better place the US has to be made even greater using Cuban talent?

Why on earth would Obama think that "freedom a-la Miami" is what Cubans in Cuba want?

Why does Obama continue with the same USA-knows-what's-best-for-Cuba (imperialism) rhetoric that Breckenridge used?

Its called pandering to the crowd. In this case, pandering to the extremist elements of the Miamicubano diaspora.


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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. remove ALL embargos and blockades on Cuba - complete normal relations now -
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 11:24 PM by msongs
is castro a dictator? yes. is China essentially a dictatorship? yes but we do business with it. Is Russia a dicatorship? essentially, yes, but we do business with it.

the fastest way to get rid of castro if that's a goal is to have normal relations with the cuban people and just ignore castro.

obama is tip toeing around the issue by wanting to maintain some elements of embargo.

Pandering to cuban americans in florida is not gonna really help people IN cuba

Msongs
www.msongs.com
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. The only element that Obama wants to change is to restore travel rights TO CUBAN-AMERICANS ONLY.
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 01:44 AM by Mika
He wants non Cuban Americans to remain second class citizens by maintaining the travel restrictions on all other Americans and US residents.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I saw that and was HORRIFIED, Mika! Even a substantial number of House Republicans,
Edited on Sat Sep-01-07 02:54 AM by Judi Lynn
and several present and past Senators have been wholeheartedly in favor of removing the ban on ALL American travel to Cuba for years.

At one point, during the Clinton administration, Chris Dodd and Republican Senator John Warner were trying to establish a National Bipartisan Commission on Cuba. It was eventually shot down by Clinton, who indicated he was adverse to organizing it, as it would conflict with the incoming President's need to construct his own Cuba policy, or some such gibberish.

Found a reference to it from June, 2000:
Warner, the initiative's co-sponsor, first proposed a national commission on Cuba policy in 1998. That proposal was supported by a quarter of the Senate and former secretaries of state in Republican administrations but was ignored by the White House. This time the effort is bipartisan and thus harder to ignore.

The Cuban-American community cannot be allowed to control U.S. policy on Cuba indefinitely. A thorough reassessment is needed.

The proposal comes as momentum is growing in Congress to exclude food and medicine sales from economic sanctions against Cuba. A growing number of Republican politicians, farmers, pharmaceutical firms and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce are pushing to ease the embargo.

The time is ripe for a reassessment of Cuba policy -- although any decision probably should not be made until a new administration assumes office in Washington.
(snip)
http://starbulletin.com/2000/06/19/editorial/editorials.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~


The lists of previous Secretaries of State was impressive! One name I remember was Lawrence Eagleberger.

Wait! Here's Chris Dodd's statement on this near-event:
Senator Christopher J. Dodd
STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF ESTABLISHING A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION ON CUBA
June 20, 2000

"Mr. President, I send to the desk an amendment and ask for its immediate consideration.

Last Friday I talked at some length about why I believe that the amendment originally proposed by Senator Warner and myself to establish a bipartisan commission to review United States policy toward Cuba is in our national interest.

The amendment I have just offer, like the Warner amendment, would provide for the appointment bipartisan commission to review U.S. policy with respect to Cuba and to make recommendations on how we can bring that policy into the 21st century.

I regret that because Senator Warner is the manager of the underlying bill he has had to withdraw his support for this amendment. I believe that he still thinks that this is a good idea even if he must disagree with the vehicle to which it has been attached.

This commission would be composed of twelve members chosen as follows: six by the President, six by the Congress (four by House and Senate Republican leaders and two by the Democratic leaders.) Senator Warner and I originally crafted this legislation to ensure that the commission would have a balanced and diverse membership. Commissioners are to be selected from various fields of expertise - including human rights, religious, public health, military, business, agricultural, and the Cuban-American community.

The commissioners will have 225 days from the date of enactment to undertake their review and report their findings. (the originally Warner amendment provided 180 days). What better time for the commission to do its work than during the transition from one administration to the next?

The idea of establishing a commission isn't a new or radical idea. It was first proposed by Senator Warner in 1998 in a letter to President Clinton. Who supported the Warner commission at that time?

Senator Warner was encouraged to propose such an idea in 1998 by a distinguished group of foreign policy experts. Let me list some of the individuals who urged that such a commission be created.

Former Secretaries of State Lawrence Eagleburger, George Shultz, and Henry Kissinger, Former Majority Leader Howard Baker, Former Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci, Former Secretaries of Agriculture John Block and Clayton Yeutter, Former Ambassadors Timothy Towell and J. William Middendorf, Former Under Secretary of State William Rogers, Former Assistant Secretary of State for Latin America and Distinguished Career Ambassador Harry Shalaudeman, another former colleague of ours Malcolm Wallop. The United States Catholic Conference has also gone on record in support of the establishment of the Committee. (You can insert some of the letters from these individuals for the record if you choose to do so.)

In addition to Senator Warner and myself, the following members of the Senate joined on letters to the President in support of the creation of a commission: Senators Grams, Bond, Jeffords, Hagel, Lugar, Enzi, John Chafee, Specter, Gordon Smith, Thomas, Boxer, Bob Kerrey, Bumpers, Jack Reed, Santorum, Moynihan, Kempthorne, Roberts, Leahy, Cochran, Domenici, and Murray. Nearly one-quarter of the entire Senate.


Highly respected human rights advocates who have remained in Cuba to promote political change have called upon the United States to rethink our policy. Elizardo Sanchez, the President of the Cuban Commission on Human Rights and National Reconciliation sent a letter in April of this year urging the United States to change its policies.

He wrote, "It is unfortunate that the government of Cuba still clings to an outdated and inefficient model that I believe is the fundamental cause of the great difficulties that the Cuban people suffer, but it is obvious that the current Cold War climate between our governments and unilateral sanctions will continue to fuel the fire of totalitarianism in my country."

There is a double standard when it comes to Cuba. A number of other countries are far more of a threat to U.S. national security and antithetical to U.S. foreign policy interests. Yet our sanctions against Cuba are among the harshest.

We have concerns about nuclear proliferation with respect to India, Pakistan, Iran, China and North Korea. Yet Americans may travel freely to these countries. In fact Americans are free to travel to many countries that I would not consider to be bastions of democracy -- Iran, the Sudan, Burma, the former Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Cambodia -- to mention but a few.


We have just entered a new millennium and the United States has moved in most areas to bring United States policy into line with the new realities of the 21st century.

On the Korean peninsula, North Korean and South Korean leaders met last week in an historic summit that hopefully will pave the way to reconciliation and reunification for two countries that fought a bloody and costly war in the last century. To encourage that effort, the Clinton Administration announced the lifting of sanctions against one of our oldest adversaries.

With respect to China, the United States has a number of serious disagreements with that government, including workers rights, respect for human rights, nuclear proliferation, economic policies, hostility toward Taiwan, etc. Yet the United States has full diplomatic relations with Beijing. Moreover, I predict that the Senate will soon follow the House and support Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China thereby clearly the way for its entry into the World Trade Organization.

Let's talk about Vietnam. The Vietnam conflict left an indelible mark on the American psyche -- 53,000 American servicemen and women lost their lives in a decade of armed hostilities. Yet today, Vietnam veteran and former Congressman Pete Peterson represents United States interests in Vietnam as the United States Ambassador. American citizens are free to travel and do business there.

Around the globe old adversaries are attempting to reconcile their differences -- in the Middle East, in Northern Ireland, on the Korean Peninsula. The United States has actively been promoting such efforts because it is in our national interest to do so.

Isn't it time that we at least took an honest and dispassionate look at our relations with a country that is in our own hemisphere, some ninety miles from our shores? What is Cuba's crime. Opponents of this measure point to the fact that Cuba remains of the terrorist list. Why? Because according to the 1999 State Department Report on Global Terrorism, Cuba "continued to provide safe haven to several terrorists and U.S. fugitives . . . and it maintained ties to other state sponsors of terrorism and Latin American insurgents."

Castro's biggest crime last year, according to this report, appears to be that he hosted a series of meetings between Colombian Government officials and the ELN -- a Colombian guerrilla organization. Rather curious in light of the fact that the United States publicly supports President Pastrana's efforts to undertake a political dialogue with the FARC and ELN as a means of ending the civil conflict in Colombia.

That same report found that Islamist extremists from around the world continue to use Afghanistan as a training ground and base of operation for their world-wide terrorist activities in 1999. Usama Bin Ladin -- the Saudi terrorist indicted for the 1998 bombing of two US Embassies in Africa continues to be given sanctuary by that country. Yet Afghanistan is not on the terrorist list. There are no prohibitions on the sale of food or medicine. Americans can travel freely to that country.

Last week, the Foreign Relations Committee held a hearing to review the findings of the National Commission on Terrorism. During the course of that hearing, Paul Bremer, the Chairman of that Commission admitted that Cuba's behavior with respect to terrorist matters had improved over past years.

Isn't it time that we started to measure our Cuba policy against the same yardstick that we measure our relations with the rest of the nations of the world?

Isn't it time that we followed a policy that was truly in our national interest -- one that promotes positive relations with the eleven million people who live on the Island of Cuba and one that promotes peaceful change and self-determination for a proud people who have been done a disservice by Fidel Castro and the United States.

Many of my colleagues have told me privately that they believe that Senator Warner and I are on the right course. Let me say to my colleagues that I appreciate those kind words, but I also hope that the time has finally come for them to stand up and be counted with respect to this issue.

I urge my colleagues to oppose any effort to table this amendment when it comes to a vote this afternoon."
(snip/)
http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/3274&pr=press/Speeches/106_00/0620.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Good to see Dodd bringing up the idea of right-wing created perception of "threat" in his speech. Isn't it a shock hearing anyone referring to Cuba as a "threat?" Cuba spends as much for national defense in one year as the U.S. spends in one half of one day! There ya go. How does reality enter into that kind of thinking?
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks for the great info.
IMO, Obama is pulling a "Lieberman" in Miami, imo. Just like Joementum, he's pandering the most extreme elements in Miami simply for campaign bucks. At the same time he's espousing the US's century long domination over Cuba, with a modern and more palatable version of the imperialist 1897 J.C. Breckenridge memorandum.

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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-01-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fuck Obama.
Uncolonize your mind. Cuba is full of Americans and Cuban-americans who don't need our dictators' permission to buy a plane ticket and go to Cuba. Go through Mexico.
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