Shocked speechless - a young Marine's wedding portrait

[charlie]

A wounded soldier returns from Iraq to marry...

Be warned, the photo is shocking:

http://www.worldpressphoto.com/index.php?option=com_photogallery&task=view&id=875&Itemid=146&bandwidth=high

A few pics of what he once looked like:

http://archive.reduxpictures.com/Production/PhotoGroupView.aspx?pbid=4&msa=1&pgid=6415897

[Greeby]

1. Holy Jeebus

:wow:

[Qutzupalotl]

80. I dare Bush to call on him at the next SOTU.

"This man sacrificed his face for freedom"

[spooked911]

113. indeed.

[barb162]

116. Bush is dumb, but not that dumb

[JRob]

140. The mutilated should organize and show up...

It might even get some press coverage

[DrZeeLit]

2. Tears, anger, love, speechlessness....

So many thoughts flood my mind...
I want to hug him.
I want to force * to look at him. In the flesh, not just an idea or a picture.

THIS IS THE FACE OF WAR.
AND
SACRIFICE
AND
HONOR.

And our brave men and women depend upon us to send them only to war when necessary.

Gotta ask yourself... was this young man's sacrifice necessary?

[rateyes]

17. Asked and answered! NO. nt

[Raffi Ella]

40. yes,that

nothing more to add as mere words would do this man no justice.

[jannyk]

71. I wonder if he can even be 'hugged'....

my friend's mother had burns like that (60% - 3rd degree) and she could't be touched. Had to be 'splinted' at night for years too. His father had 80% burns and died after 10 days - his mum always said her husband was the 'lucky' one.

This young couple have a very hard road ahead and I hope they can do it together.

God, I'm so angry!!!

[earthside]

3. I Simply Do Not Understand ...

... why anyone, repeat anyone, could say that impeachment is off the table, that it is too politically risky to talk about charging Bush and Cheney with war crimes.

[Benhurst]

8. Amen!

[Just-plain-Kathy]

20. I don't understand it either...

...common sense would say that people voted for the democratic party in November because they wanted out of Iraq and accountability.

There is no way in hell democrats will win in ‘08 if they don’t come through with the goods.

[BuyingThyme]

45. Thank you.

[Irreverend IX]

97. Feeling instead of thinking...

Will always lead you to destruction. Emotionally, you may desire impeachment but any rational assessment of the US political scene shows that it isn't a possibility right now. Besides, impeachment won't punish Bush; it will only remove him from office. After he leaves office, he can be brought up on charges that may lead to actual imprisonment.

[Beam Me Up]

111. Thinking instead of feeling

or perhaps I should say, RATIONALIZING instead of standing up to immorality and evil IS WHAT HAS GOTTEN US WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

Thank you.

[goforit]

163. Yes, thank you for saying this. You're damn right.

[BOSSHOG]

4. God Bless them

Let us hope they have a long and happy marriage.

[ornotna]

129. Amen to that n/t

[nam78_two]

150. Amen

I wish the very very best to both of them....

[BlueIris]

168. Yeah. Nice couple.

They will need each other in the future.

[Earth_First]

5. self-delete

[wicket]

14. I second that

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[frogcycle]

92. The casualty rate in this debacle vs VN

is skewed by the fact that in VN the injured to killed ratio was about 2 to 1, and in this war it is something like 10 or twenty to 1, depending what level of injury you count (the DoD recently stopped counting you if you don't need medevac)

So whereas we have "only" lost 3500 in this almost-four year war, vs 50,000 in VN over more than a decade, but concentrated in the six years 1965-71, we are bringing home severely maimed people at an appalling rate. We have had 54,910 "non-mortal casualties", but "only" 7,005 hostile-action wounded requiring medical transport.

Of those 7005, many, many of them are like this marine, or are missing 3 or 4 limbs. Very, very few of them would have survived in the VN era. Add to that the fact that we are putting people through equivalent hellish experiences, but keeping them there longer, sending them back repeatedly, and the human cost of this maniac's adventure is being very much understated. VN was a gut-wrenching experience that tore the country apart. This SHOULD be the same. It is getting there, but the general public still doesn't seem mad enough.

[Missy M]

6. What a tragedy....

what a wonderful woman his wife is for sticking with him. I hope they have a happy life, he certainly deserves it and more.

[Kixel]

75. My thoughts exactly! n/t

[rocktivity]

7. The bride's expression is equally riveting

and doesn't give me cause to be optimistic about their future.

:headbang:
rocknation

[valerief]

12. Yes, her expression is amazingly telling. nt

[Katherine Brengle]

13. I thought the same thing...

she looks so... sad and empty in that picture.

[Morgana LaFey]

60. Shell shocked

:wow:

[Bunny]

18. Did you look at all of the pics?

She doesn't look happy in any of them. This is such a tragedy.

[ContraBass Black]

44. She looks happy in some of the other pictures.

[BlueIris]

169. I think the first photo just caught her in an unflattering second.

I think she looks amazing in some of the other photos and feel reasonably optimistic about their future. Provided his health holds up, which, well...

I'm kinda bothered by the fact that so many posts are focused on the changes to his facial features. Two tours in Iraq probably put a lot of other stress on the rest of his system (respitory, especially). His long-term issues, apart from the psychological ones, are going to be about a lot more than an altered face or lost limbs.

[Warpy]

21. The second link has better pictures

and I'm quite optimistic.

Plus, he's not always going to look like that. There is enough of a VA system left to improve his appearance over time, but it will take multiple surgeries. He'll never look the way he once did, but he'll look considerably less grotesque.

The greatest fear is that Stupid is so desperate for manpower that he'll send that mutilated young man back.

[Glimmer of Hope]

24. The bride looks happy in a couple pics . There are a lot of things

plastic surgeons can do these days. Hopefully he will have the resources if that is what he wants.

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Go to image 6. That's a happy bride.

Don't put too much stock in a serious expression. I perform approximately 25 weddings per year. I constantly have to prod the happy couple into smiling. They are generally either nervous or so focused on what is happening they have no clue of the look on their faces. The smiles don't usually so free and easily until after the kiss. -- unless I've got a couple with the giggles that is.

Cheers!

[Hassan]

147. .

[Justpat]

36. Yes, she looks so sad in that picture.

She looks as if she wants someone to make the whole thing
go away.

[mnhtnbb]

37. She looks like she can't believe this is happening.

[rocktivity]

79. Exactly--standing by him is one thing, committing to him for life is another

In the "official" wedding picture in particular, she looks like the reality of her situation has finally landed on her.

:headbang:
rocknation

[theboss]

65. Christ...you are all making it sound like their are gunmen just out of camera range

Read the story:

Marine Sergeant Ty Ziegel already had his life planned out, he would marry his girlfriend Renee Kline upon returning from his second tour of duty in Iraq.

But one fateful day a suicide bomber hit his truck, tearing apart his body and making him among the 20,000 soldiers that have been wounded in Iraq. He was blind in one eye, had a shattered skull, and most of his skin was burned off. Renee lived with Ty at the Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas for a year and a half, sharing Ty's every hope and fear. Their relationship became stronger than ever, and Ty and Renee moved back to their hometown in Illinois in July 2006, and got married in shortly thereafter.

[Beaverhausen]

88. thanks for posting that

They are both amazing people.

[deutsey]

68. God bless her for standing with him. I wish them both a good life together.

[davekriss]

100. I double that wish (n/t)

[ScreamingMeemie]

76. I read an article on them in People (yes People) last year and she

appears to be very much in love. No less so than your normal newlywed. She says he is still the same man she fell in love with.

[Hassan]

146. .

[BlueIris]

170. "She says he is still the same man she fell in love with."

Okay, if that's true, then they have as decent a chance as other couples. That's probably what she is most thankful for--that he is, in terms of his personality, the same person.

[Zandor]

102. Same thought here

it's as if she can't believe it's him.

[melody]

106. she might just be nervous

It might well be the general new-bride "oh, my god I'm gonna upchuck" nerves. I was like that all day on my wedding day.

I'm sure she realizes there are a LOT of fiancees "out there" who desperately WISH they had received
back that much of the man they loved.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. No words. God bless them.

[valerief]

10. A couple of years ago I posted a few times "why do mothers let

their children go off to this war?" and got negative responses for posing the question.

I should have had those pictures when I asked it.

[walk softly]

39. SOMEWHERE ON DU

there's a poll being conducted re heroes and cowards for not going to Iraq. Maybe folks should see these pictures or watch THE GROUND TRUTH on DVD before they judge

[LibDemAlways]

109. This picture appeared in my local paper

yesterday - Mike and Vicki Melia at the funeral of their 20-year-old son Anthony, one of the latest Iraq casulaties. Friends of the family are quoted in the accompanying article uttering the usual "he died for our freedom" platitudes along with the statement that Anthony had joined the Marines right out of high school because he wanted to go to Iraq and "find those responsible for 9/11."




I can't help but think if Anthony and his parents had done some research and been better informed, he would be alive today and they wouldn't be living this terrible nightmare.

[lonestarnot]

125. You said a total mouthful!

:applause:

[LibDemAlways]

141. It's a fine line to tread because I would never denigrate

anyone who has a sincere desire to serve in the military. However, I believe kids should know what they are getting into before they sign up and I think kids like Anthony aren't being told the truth if they are going to Iraq believing it had something to do with 9/11. Yet another 17-year-old was quoted in the same article as saying he's joined the Marines and will go after high school graduation in June because he wants to bring the Iraqi people "freedom."

There was a great scene in the movie "Coming Home" in which a recruiter comes to a high school campus and paints a rosy picture of military service in the Vietnam era. He's followed by Jon Voight, the partially paralyzed vet in a wheelchair, who gives the kids the real unvarnished truth. I think kids contemplating putting their lives on the line deserve no less.

[w8liftinglady]

152. my son Joined after 9/11-

he did 1 tour in Afghnistan and 2 in Iraq.Try telling an adult soldier NOT to go in support of his buddies.I hate this war,and have done what I could do to end it-but don't judge a mother because her soldier is committed to his troops.That's unfair.

[LibDemAlways]

156. Did not intend to judge that family. ...And meant no offense

against the military or those who choose to serve. My dad proudly served in the Navy. My cousin is married to a West Point Grad who was a ranger. My comments weren't meant to judge Anthony's mother. Just wish that her young son, barely out of high school in 2005 - two years after the start of the Iraq war - had been clued in as to the real reasons for the conflict before he made the decision to sign up. Apparently he honestly thought Iraq was related to 9/11. No one told him otherwise. Perhaps if he'd known Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and that he was going to be sacrified for oil and PNAC's insane imperialistic plan - concocted long before 9/11 - he might have thought twice about it - then again, perhaps not. Information is power and these young recruits deserve to know the whole story. That's the only point I was trying to make. As with any decision one makes in life, best to make it with eyes wide open.

I have nothing but respect for your son and all who serve in uniform. I just wish they were serving under a commander in chief worthy of them and their sacrifice instead of a criminal who belongs behind bars.

[w8liftinglady]

171. Hey..it's cool-these bastards piss me off,too!

[kath]

154. "to go to Iraq and 'find those responsible for 9/11.' "

Jeebus H. Christ. It's absofuckinlutely disgusting how many Murkans believe that shit.
:puke: :puke: :puke:

[valerief]

157. Yeah, they only have to go to DC for that. nt

[LibDemAlways]

159. Truer words have rarely appeared on DU. Thanks.

[LibDemAlways]

158. And some of them dying because of those

misguided beliefs. Young kids being sold a bunch of lies by recruiters and the media and the Bush Crime Family and going off to be killed for Halliburton profits. It's obscene.

[Solly Mack]

11. I hate Bush

[SusanaMontana41]

26. Me too

I don't know how he sleeps at night.

[niyad]

48. according to him, he sleeps far better than any of us imagine (an actual quote) the man is truly

without a soul, or even the remotest sense of compassion, connection or empathy.

may he, and all who have supported and abetted him in this horror receive EXACTLY what they deserve.

[nebenaube]

118. Halcion... works wonders.....

for sleep anyway... causes hallucinations and psychosis most of the time...

[bdamomma]

55. I hope he burns in hell for his wrath on all of us.

[TahitiNut]

30. I wonder if he sent them a wedding present.

:sarcasm:


:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[ClayZ]

105. I hate that I hate him!

He is THE TERRORIST! I never hated anyone before!

[Beausoir]

15. And for what.....?

For what reason did this have to happen?

God damn George Bush to hell for this.

[In Truth We Trust]

16. May they always live a life of love and happiness! Thank you Marine! Fuck all the fascists that

created this lie and continue to promulgate this lie and it's repercussions!

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. I've seen this couple on TV a couple of times - they are

amazing.

The young man just goes on like he is just perfectable normal.

His wife cared for him for several months after he was hurt. She just really loves the guy. She said that if she had decided to leave and not marry him she would have done it while he was in the hospital. But she just loves his heart and doesn't care if he is scarred.

I know they were on Oprah and I saw them on another show, too.

[Laurab]

67. It was also in People Magazine

a few months ago, I think. So very sad and unnecessary.

[judaspriestess]

23. I wish them all the best

I hope the guy doesn't have to go back for another tour. Wouldn't put it past this government

[benddem]

165. He's missing

a hand, fingers on the other hand and has no ear, I doubt they'd be that stupid.

[Giant Robot]

25. I

Hate.

This.

War.

So.

Fucking.

Much.

Please for the love of whatever God will listen, stop this accursed war. Please stop this. I am in tears begging here. Please stop it. Please.

[helderheid]

28. You speak for me.

:cry:

[i miss america]

142. And me.

:cry:

[bdamomma]

57. when bush said we are sacrificing by watching the war on TV

he is using psychological mindgames on all of us. I hate him.

[peace13]

27. A big reminder that we are all temporarily able bodied!

He is one of the thousands of beautiful people that we have damaged so that *ush can steal billions! I send good thoughts to this couple as I know that the road will not be easy!

[crikkett]

29. see photo #22 - why ask why?

[Duppers]

123. and pic # 21

Notice the tattoo some one's leg at the table. One of his friends? What kind of culture is this poor soul from?

I had to d/l the pic and blow it up to see the details better. I didn't like what I saw.

[Divernan]

139. Tattoo of Statue of Liberty holding smoking six-guns overhead; weapon strapped to her bare thigh

You're right, that tattoo on his friend, along with fact his brother also enlisted; the childhood picture of him as small child dressed up in military camo for Haloween; post-injury watching and cheering some ultimate fight program and saying "I'm in my element"; firing a rifle with more friends at some knid of shooting party - this guy was programmed for war from childhood and still enjoys guns, fighting and violence. I have seen several infants (under one year of age) being proudly carried around by their young dads, wearing camo/military baby clothes - talk about early programming. Their parents should see these pictures.

I contrast this young Marine's post-injury behaviors with those of an old friend, now dead, who was a pilot in the Korean war. He was shot down twice and escaped twice from his captors. He flew that deadly slot bombing the dam at the Chosung Reservoir (if I remember the name rightly). If they could destroy the dam, a valley would be flooded and block the Chicoms from advancing toward South Korea. The pilots had to approach low, between two mountain ranges and were fired at from both sides. This was the basis for James Michener's story, Bridges at Toko-Ri. The thing is, my friend was an anti-war pacifist the rest of his life.

The kind of injuries this young Marine suffered, especially the severe burning, scarring, loss of ears and one eye from burning - are the same suffered by thousands and thousands of Iraqi civilians, mostly non-combatants, at the hands of US forces, perhaps this very soldier. For example, the use of white phosporous at Fallujah. The Iraqis much more likely died from such severe wounds. Those who survived will not have access to VA hospitals or plastic surgeons,artificial limbs, etc., let alone the support of whole, functioning communities of friends and relatives.

[Duppers]

155. thank you, Divernan

Too many people in U.S. culture glorify combat and applaud bush's 'bring it on' statement.
We all are paying the price.

[Ezlivin]

31. Go take a walk around a VA hospital

You could have nightmares for days; the place can be like a casting call for an unlimited budget horror movie.

Every single politician who supports this war should be forced to sleep for a month in a VA hospital ward.

[TahitiNut]

35. Brooke Army Hospital at Fort Sam Houston during the Viet Nam War.

It's the "burn center."

I will NEVER forget. NEVER.

[peace13]

32. On second thought I am going to forward this link .

My senator needs to be reminded every day!! Mr. Voinovich look at what you are doing to other people's children!

[HughBeaumont]

33. Send these pictures to our Democratic Senators and Representatives.

Maybe this will kick them in their collective asses once and for all.

This madman HAS to be stopped.

Scenes like this are going to play themselves out over and over again unless someone STOPS this bloodthirsty cabal.

"You don't always die from tobacco", and you don't always die in a war. You can come home amputated and horribly disfigured. Still want to sign up, kids?

Not ONE more dime. Not ONE more minute. Not ONE MORE LIFE!

[peace13]

41. Great minds think alike.

I just sent mine off. Today this all seems particularly overwhelming as Congress deliberates deliberating a non binding document. What will it take to wake them up?

[tbyg52]

82. Massive amounts of people

in the streets without permits but *with* pots and pans, probably.

It's been a long time since most of them actually represented us, or at least had the guts to admit it when they went against us because of their principles.

Most just want to make the fewest waves possible, get the corporate money, and get re-elected. Not all, of course. And it'd stop, or at least not be as blatant, if we could get the corporate money out of elections.

http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/1019

I don't care who has said money is free speech, IT AIN'T! If it were, the people with the most money would have the most influence. Oh, wait......

BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT *SHOULD* BE.

[progressoid]

34. speechless

[mopinko]

38. prepare for the shock waves.

you know, much of the impetus for what we still call modern art a nearly a century later was just such soldiers. seeing soldiers like this, coming home from wwI, made max beckman realize that reality was not pretty. that prettiness was a lie. this ugliness spread through everything.
and the disgruntled and rejected soldiers from wwI were manipulated into wwII.
this is just going to continue spreading ugliness and violence throughout the whole world, for this whole century.

hope this marine and his bride make it. hope he is wrapped in a blanket of love and care. hope his scars, inside and outside, wear away.

[walk softly]

42. AMEN

[Postman]

50. And all on a pack of lies because someone wanted to make money..

Are you happy now AIPAC?

[progressoid]

43. I’d have understood if she’d said, ‘Yeah, I’m out of here,’” Ty says.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article1294008.ece?token=null&offset=0

When Marine Sergeant Ty Ziegel woke up from his coma, he was still in a fog of drugs. He knew his fiancée, Renee, was there and sensed her love for him. She had been playing with his feet because there was so little of him she could touch. He was told of his injuries but was so out of it, he thought: “Whatever.”
As the scale of his injuries sank in, his heart tightened. One arm was a stump and his remaining hand had only two fingers. Later, his big toe was grafted on in place of a thumb. One eye was blind and milky, as if melted, and his ears had been burnt away. The top of his skull had been removed and inserted by doctors into the fatty tissue inside his torso to keep it viable and moist for future use. He was a mess.

--snip--

“I don’t remember saying it to Renee, but I’d have understood if she’d said, ‘Yeah, I’m out of here,’” Ty says.
He had seen other badly wounded soldiers and marines get dumped by their girlfriends in hospital. Sometimes they would be cruel to their girlfriends and chuck them pre-emptively to spare themselves hurt. But quietly and with little fuss, Ty, 24, and Renee, 21, resolved to stick it out.

--snip--


On the plus side, Ty claims: “I can be a lot more of an ass and get away with it.” It is also a long time since he has bought dinner. “I tried to take Renee out on her birthday and somebody paid for it. People know you are in the military and they want to thank you.”

He did not join the marines to get thanks and he does not feel strongly about the war one way or the other.
“I’m not political and I don’t complain.” His younger brother is also in the marines and may be deployed in Iraq. Sometimes it bothers Ty, but they both signed up, so that’s that, he says stoically. At one stage he hoped to remain in the marines, but when he thought seriously about it for 10 minutes, he decided to quit. He is living on his pension now while Renee works part-time in a bar. In the spring, he hopes to build a house on a plot of land near his family: “When that’s done, it will be the last house I’ll live in.”

[Casablanca]

120. "... he does not feel strongly about the war one way or the other."

“I’m not political and I don’t complain.”

That just floors me. I'm very sorry about what he and his wife are going through, but if the experience of almost losing everything because of a suicide bomber doesn't galvanize some sort of opinion about the war and what America is inciting around the world, that's well beyond stoic, it's detached. He may be trying to be strong for his friends and his wife, but I hope he has some emotions about it and deals with them constructively with their help.

"His younger brother is also in the marines and may be deployed in Iraq. Sometimes it bothers Ty, but they both signed up, so that’s that, he says stoically."

That may be true from the standpoint of the military game, but even soldiers have to realize when the military game has gone too far. He can _always_ speak out against it, at least. Even in the face of people who diss it as just "complaining".

[crikkett]

144. I understand and sympathize with his non-political stance

He's BURNED and lost LIMBS.

He's got a wife and he's building a house and hopes to live his life peacefully.

Try to understand that HIS FIGHT IS OVER.

He needs to heal and love, and be loved.

The politics of ending the war and taking care of vets is OUR fight, not his.

We fight for his right to live in peace.

[Casablanca]

162. I saw the pictures, dude.

I'm well aware that he was BURNED and lost LIMBS. One would suspect that that would lead to some sort of opinion about the war that burned him, took away his limbs, and fundamentally changed his life from here on out, pro or con. But he professes to have no opinions about it whatsoever. I don't approve or disapprove of it, it just amazes me.

Also his fight is over when HE calls it, not you. You and I aren't in the position to speak for him, or his future plans.

[crikkett]

164. Think about what you just said,

You said, his fight is over when He calls it. That man did call his fight when he said he had no opinion of the war. His statement communicates: I AM NOT IN THIS FIGHT. I saw that and said so, "translated" for you so to speak because you were upset. amazed.

Think about the last time you had a bad, bad flu or when some injury knocked you on your ass, put you out of commission, and you had to heal from it. Did you care about anything but your own health at that time? When I imagine this, I can see where that guy may be coming from.

Furthermore, military folk are not civilian folk. As a vet I understand the culture of conformity that is the Marine Corps. It's difficult to convey to a civilian. Perhaps our hero thinks that harboring anger about the war means accepting victimhood and letting his bretheren down.

Consider that he's not answering to you, stranger, but to his entire support network. He needs these people more than ever. I bet $1 his wife's gonna be clipping all this stuff out for the wedding scrapbook. When given a chance to interject bitterness and protest into those pages, he chose not to. I would be telling a reporter "no comment" as well.

Therefore I am not amazed that a wounded Marine would utter things like "I have no opinion" about the Iraq war.

[BlueIris]

172. "She had been playing with his feet because there was so little of him she could touch."

And my keyboard blurs.

[sinkingfeeling]

46. Someone should give Renee Kline a medal for continuing to 'stand by her man'.

[Jonathan50]

47. Brothers In Arms

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day youll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And youll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
Ive watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

Theres so many different worlds
So many differents suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the suns gone to hell
And the moons riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But its written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
Were fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

-Dire Straits

[nashville_brook]

58. i was "rational" with the whole thread until reading this

:cry:

[Jonathan50]

91. If you haven't heard it you ought to give it a listen

One of the most powerful songs I've ever heard and possibly my all time favorite.

[nashville_brook]

122. i'm a giant dire straits fan... i love this song...

didn't expect to see it in this context, though, and it really moved me --
thanks for reminding me of it. :)

[otherlander]

93. That song.

:cry:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y77HC9BeC0E
There's a slower live version somewhere, but I'm posting this one because the charcoal-ish illustrations fit exactly with the message. Like one of the comments to the song says, I rarely call things perfect, but I'm willing to make an exception.

[Jonathan50]

103. Ride Across the River

Im a soldier of freedom in the army of man
We are the chosen, were the partisan
The cause it is noble and the cause it is just
We are ready to pay with our lives if we must

Gonna ride across the river deep and wide
Ride across the river to the other side

Im a soldier of fortune, Im a dog of war
And we dont give a damn who the killing is for
Its the same old story with a different name
Death or glory, its the killing game

Gonna ride across the river deep and wide
Ride across the river to the other side

Nothing gonna stop them as the day follows the night
Right becomes wrong, the left becomes the right
And they sing as they march with their flags unfurled
Today in the mountains, tomorrow the world

Gonna ride across the river deep and wide
Ride across the river to the other side

--Dire Straits

[bullwinkle428]

119. An incredible song by my favorite musical artists....

[niyad]

49. the second link is not working for me--all I get are boxes with red "x's"

but then, I am not sure I want to see any more of this.

[Critters2]

51. I'm moved to tears. They're both brave young people

Now THIS is a tragedy! :cry:

[FourScore]

52. k&r

[Czolgosz]

53. Bush's legacy ... n/m

[nonconformist]

54. Oh my God.

Shocked speechless is right.

:cry:

[sakabatou]

56. O_O

[deadparrot]

59. Truly sickening.

I wish both of them the best of luck.

[nashville_brook]

61. i'm thinking this is a more realistic image of love and war than this:

the wedding photo is an amazing testament to TRANSCENDENT LOVE. Love, overcoming.

in this light, what do you call The Kiss, but exploitation.

[rockymountaindem]

74. That image is an image of peace, not war

That's an image of how happy people were that the worst conflict in human history was over. Obviously they were happy for good reason.

[nashville_brook]

78. i can see your point, but i've always seen it as an image of the sexiness of soldiers

in a War Made Me Beautiful kinda way. The Andrew Sisters, and shipping off after the dance at the NCO club. ROMANCE. ADVENTURE. Enlist now!

[lumpy]

133. There were no anti-war marching in the streets during

WW2. None. Quite the opposite. This was a conflict that we could not afford to ignore. There were no anti-war demonstrations, only public cooperation in all areas. When it was over people rallied in the streets in celebration that the war was over. That is what that famous kiss was all about, there were hugs and kisses and joy all around, not exploitation. Thousands of people in our cities celebrating the end of the war was not a propaganda stunt.

[Frank Cannon]

151. That was V-J day. The war was finally OVER.

I assure you that the celebration and the kiss were entirely genuine.

[riderinthestorm]

62. I keep opening this thread and clicking the pictures

and there just aren't any words to express how much I hate Bu$hsco right now.

:cry:

Best wishes to Ty and Renee on a long and happy marriage. I really hope they make it.....

[charlie]

63. He's one of 55,000

Non-mortal casualties as of Feb 9 -- 54,910

http://icasualties.org/oif

As early as 2004, 1 in 10 soldiers evacuated to Germany for treatment were sent for mental problems

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_mental_021904,00.html

Medical tech is able to keep soldiers alive who would've been dead decades ago. The death count is relatively low, but the rate of casualties is approaching Vietnam numbers. There are thousands whose plight is only known by their families and communities. Without an "uplifting" angle to their stories like this one, we're not going to hear about them. As with Vietnam, they're going to endure gov't/society's indifference, and in time, scorn, if they become too much of a "problem."

[theboss]

64. That bride is sort of amazing

As someone with a rather mild handicap, I know how easy an excuse any type of disability is to get out of a relationship. No one was forcing her to stay with him, and I doubt anyone would have blamed her for leaving.

But she stayed and married him. That's love.

[bleedingheart]

70. that is love...

you are right...

[liberal renegade]

66. self delete

Bastards!

[fortyfeetunder]

69. Blessings to this couple

No I was not shocked, just plain mad that the young man had to endure those injuries.

I looked closer at his face, and he is stillhandsome with a beautiful smile, in spite of his injuries.

I wish the couple blessings in their life together...

[rockymountaindem]

72. How on earth does someone survive an injury like that?

I mean physically, it's just shocking that someone's mere mortal body could be so badly damaged and yet continue to live. Think about it: fifty years ago that man would have died from his injuries.

I wish him and his family the best. From the posts in this thread he seems to have a good outlook on things. However, I can't help but think that a lot of people, in his situation, would prefer not to have been saved.

This whole war is so fucking wierd for me. I skipped some years of school, so by high school most of my friends were two years older than me. Two of them have been involved in this war so far. One of them is a Marine who is heading back for his third tour. He's a very good friend of mine, probably in the top 10 of friends I have from high school. Make that definately in the top ten. Every time he's been over there I get worried every time I hear about a Marine being killed. I don't want to speak for him, but I think he'd rather die than survive in that condition. We're talking about mr. All-American-Kid. CC runner, rock climber, someone who really likes being outdoors. And, I'd say, he's one of the best looking dudes you'll ever see, and really tall. He's told us all that he wouldn't mind dying in Iraq if it gets his name on a memorial to be remembered for all time. The last time I was hanging out with him he rather flippantly remarked "Well, I'm going to get killed this time anyway" as an answer to something. Ultimately, I think he'd prefer that fate to some of the others out there. I can't say that I blame him, everybody's got to make choices. And, in his case, I think his parents would be willing to honor his wishes and pull the plug if it ever came to that God forbid.

My second friend, a girl I've known since I was 10, joined the reserves for college money. Before she knew it she was in Afghanistan. When she told me she was going I kind of flew off the handle and swore to God I'd go there in her stead if I could and if it would keep her safe. I was 17 at the time and it made me really mad. Thank God she's okay, and I don't think she'll be going back anytime soon. She's one of the nicest people you'd ever meet, and I was very worried about her.

As a young man these days, all this is mind-blowing. I can't enjoy war movies anymore. Every time I see someone get killed I think "that'd be me out there getting fucked up". This war is so crazy, I just try not to think about it.

[Mrs. Overall]

73. This looks like my brother's friend when he returned home after Vietnam

following a helicopter crash. I was a small child, but I remember being afraid of him and upset not only by his scarring, but because his ears had been burned off.
He went on to marry and raise a family, without further plastic surgery.
So sad....

[okieinpain]

77. yeah, we should just send more people to iraq, that will show them.

[westerebus]

81. Nothing but admiration and best wishes for the happy couple.

It ain't easy being green...

[Dammit Ann]

83. video link to this sad, tragic, love story.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/cover_story/cover_article.aspx?storyid=107719

[The Backlash Cometh]

84. That bride's face says it all.

[BlueIris]

173. I hope you looked at all the pictures.

She's a lovely person.

[KayLaw]

85. Dear God.

May the lord bless them and keep them.

[ThatsMyBarack]

86. What would the Freepers say about all this?

Do they even care? :shrug:

[Miss Chybil]

87. This photo will make the history books.

What a tragedy, but thank God he's alive.

[rockymountaindem]

90. No, it won't

The really bad pics never make the history books.

[Miss Chybil]

112. This is a really good picture

of some really, real people who have lived, and are living, through some really bad stuff. The emotion coming out of this photograph is overwhelming.

[rockymountaindem]

117. By "bad" I mean those which will likely upset someone's sensibilities

Ever since I clicked that link I've been thinking about this all day. Most people will not want to do that. That's just the way things are, I'm afraid.

Edit: I say this as someone who is usually less effected by these kinds of pictures than most. This one has seriously gotten to me, though, for personal reasons.

If you've ever been to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in D.C., you'll know that there is one part where they have a film clip showing the removal of piles of corpses from the camp, but it's behind this kind of shield with a warning telling sensitive people not to look at the screen. Now, if there's one place people should expect to see that kind of imagery, it would be at a Holocaust museum. However, enough people evidently don't want to see it even there, or are unable to cope with seeing it even if they wanted to. That's why this picture will not appear in the history books. "Napalm Girl", for example, was at least uninjured physically. Even then, many people objected to putting total nudity in a textbook photo. I just don't see it happening.

[Miss Chybil]

126. I get your point and as neither of us can tell the future, we will just have to

wait and see what happens. I'm looking at this photo as an artist and from an art history standpoint. There are few images that can speak to our time on this planet, in our circumstances, like this one does. It's like a complete story in one sentence. I believe, if this photo survives, it will one day be shown on a classroom wall. (In an art history class. Which, if you've never taken one, is the study of history through the art made at the time.) For those who come after us, those trying to imagine what it was like "back in the day," this picture will suck the breath right out of their mouths - just as it has done for you and me. We can imagine the questions it will provoke about this time in the history of our world. (Not that there won't already be sooooo many questions.)

On a side note: I'm an eternal optimist. While this poor man has been disfigured - for no reason, but Bush's lies - he is still alive and he just got married. We have a police officer, here in Phoenix, who got terribly disfigured when his Crown Victoria patrol car was rear-ended and exploded into flames. His entire face was melted off. He has been so brave and worked so hard and his wife has stayed right by his side. He lives life and he has so inspired me. He is proof life goes on and the Marine in the wedding picture is proof of that, as well.



Officer Jason Schecterle
http://www.officerjason.org/thestory/index.html

And though I don't know if I'd have the strength to do it were I in their shoes, I pray they overcome their pain and their lives be long and satisfying, it's all bonus now.

[SeattleGirl]

89. My god.

This young man is a symbol of Bush's fucked up war "strategery". Not that he would ever lose sleep over it, the rat bastard.

[Madspirit]

94. Sewing

I would like to sew this picture to the insides of Bush's eyelids. Except that I don't think it would phase him.

This is so sad.
Lee

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Love can transcend this stupid, brutal, pointless war.

But it shouldn't have to.

All the best to the happy couple.

[Beelzebud]

96. I feel the rage of a thousand silenced voices...

END THIS WAR NOW

IMPEACH BUSH NOW

FAILURE TO DO THIS IS COMPLICITY

[candidate]

98. Just out of curiosity...

what happened to him? IED?

BTW you know how the freeptard crowd would react to those pics;

OMG WE MUST KILLL ALL TEH TERRORISTSS WHO DOO BAD STUFF LIEK THISS KILLKILKILLKILL!!11

[and-justice-for-all]

99. Wounded??

How can anyone call that wounded, he is scared for life.

And he received his "wound" for a lie.. * is a piece of shit.

[Joe Chi Minh]

101. I suspect you speak for all of us.

[NEOBuckeye]

104. Dear God...

That's awful! Talk about paying a heavy price. At least his young wife doesn't seem to have put too much stock in appearance. She'd best be the sort who can look well and deep beyond all of that.

[tabasco]

107. Bush should have gone and done his "looking for the WMD" skit.

I'm sure those in attendance would have been rolling in the aisles.

[w4rma]

108. That's a picture that the corporate media won't show. It's too effective.

I've seen almost nothing about the lives of wounded soldiers after they have returned. And there are *lots* of them that are maimed as bad and worse as this guy.

[w8liftinglady]

121. allow me the pleasure of sending it to "our" spokespeople

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail] I know-but MSNBC has been the only station that has a semblance of balls

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


These are the stories the news needs to be covering-not the endless diatribe about anna nichole smith...astronauts in love...etc
trust me-100,00 emails regarding this WILL get their attention.

[Swamp Rat]

110. .

:cry:

[1620rock]

114. May God bless this couple with peace and serenity all the days..

..of their lives.
And may God Damn bush's stinking rotting soul to eternal damnation in the hottest fires of Hell!

[The Doctor.]

166. My sentiments as well. nt

[flying rabbit]

115. Thanks george

I am glad you are sleeping well.
you dick

[The_Casual_Observer]

124. That person paid for Doug Feith's wet dream.

[outlookin_in]

127. i remember viet nam...

there is a man i met once named "dave reovers," not sure last name spelling is accurate. Any way he went off to viet nam engaged and just before returning home a napom granade misfired in his hand. He looked almost just like this guy. While in hospital here his girl came in and had been shown pictures and all. Dave was in one bed and a guy with same injury in the other. The other guys wife came in and lay her wedding ring on his belly and left.

Dave was expecting the same but his wife came in and kissed him and told him she loved him. After 20 years or more of surgeries he remained drastically altered from original. They have had a really happy life, kids and all, she has never regreted staying with him.

I wish this couple the same heroic love.

[uppityperson]

128. What a happy couple (in some of the pictures). I wish them the best and congratulations.

It is not every day 1 person goes through hell and then gets to marry the person they love. I wish them the best.

[Kerrytravelers]

130. This soldier and so many like him can lay the blame on the shoulders of this administration.

And to those who voted W'04. By 2004, we knew what was going on without a doubt. Those who remained ignorant can't shrug off their portion of the blame for allowing this madman to continue.

59 million (well, maybe 59 million) "fellow" Americans have betrayed what this country use to stand for and voted for this insanity. This young man and all the other men and women in the military can laid their death, injuries and psychological damage on the shoulders of this administration and those who supported them... and the ones that still support this insanity.

There are some people in my family who voted W'04. In my mind, even though they are family, I always keep that fact in the back of my mind. While how one votes isn't necessarily the measure of who they are, anyone who would support the W'04 ticket has surpassed what is normal. Even those in my own family. I just can't look at them the same.

[133724]

131. GOD BLESS THAT WOMAN FOR MARRYING HIM...

I doubt if many women would marry an individual so scared.

Indeed I know of worse...

I pray for their success

[pnorman]

132. Googling for details, I found THIS:

http://www.tech-boards.com/index.php?topic=22386.msg290760

Those assholes are sick!

pnorman

[The Straight Story]

134. Kick and R for this, thanks! (nt)

[meuniermr]

135. He should be introduced onto the floor of the House

into evidence. Maybe then some of the chickenhawks will realize what the fuck they are doing to people. They can't all be sociopaths like W. I wonder if my Rep. Ed Markey would take this idea and run with it?

[W in Arabia]

136. Christ, is all this worth this young man's pain?

All for oil and ME dominance?

This makes me cry for both the marine and what our country has become.

[tom_paine]

137. Terrible tragedies happen in war, that is axiomatic.

But when the tragedies are NOT necessary. When the war is not even close to just but DEEPLY AND THOROUGHLY UNJUST, therein lies the real tragedy, the outrage.

If that young man had that horrific wounding in the actual pursuit of Bin Laden, during the full reconsturction of Afghanistan, or in Special Forces pursuit of al-Qaeda cells around the world...it would still be a bitter and terrible tragedy.

But it would NOT be the shocking outrage that it is now...the offense against decency and humanity that the Busheviks perpetrate or cause to happen 1,000 times a day.

I am glad this young man's girlfriend stood by him, and I hope and pray that he will have a good life in which he can forget what happened to him...even if it's just for a little while.

[GenDem]

138. The tragic face of an illegal war

If this isn't grounds for holding this fucking administration responsible, I don't know what is. And how many other men, women, and children have been maimed for the lies of Bushco?

I'm thinking of sending these pictures to my representatives. They need to see what the results of Bush's war are. I'd like to ask them how many more will be mutilated and killed while they wrangle over simply debating it.

For the young couple -- I hope that their love is strong enough to overcome this tragic, unwarranted, disfigurement.

[MiniMandaRuth]

143. The look on the brides face....

the 'What happened to him?' look...


I think my heart just broke.

[Hassan]

145. o

..

[meuniermr]

148. Just hit Fark.com

eom.

[nam78_two]

149. Too late to recommend...here is a kick

:kick:
Fuck you Dick Cheney...

[Little Wing]

153. I am SHOCKED AND AWED

I wonder if Rumsfeld is proud of that, too.

Bastards.

[Minstrel Boy]

160. "John Brown went off to war...."

John Brown by Bob Dylan

John Brown went off to war to fight on a foreign shore.
His mama sure was proud of him!
He stood straight and tall in his uniform and all.
His mama's face broke out all in a grin.

"Oh son, you look so fine, I'm glad you're a son of mine,
You make me proud to know you hold a gun.
Do what the captain says, lots of medals you will get,
And we'll put them on the wall when you come home."

As that old train pulled out, John's ma began to shout,
Tellin' ev'ryone in the neighborhood:
"That's my son that's about to go, he's a soldier now, you know."
She made well sure her neighbors understood.

She got a letter once in a while and her face broke into a smile
As she showed them to the people from next door.
And she bragged about her son with his uniform and gun,
And these things you called a good old-fashioned war.

Oh! Good old-fashioned war!

Then the letters ceased to come, for a long time they did not come.
They ceased to come for about ten months or more.
Then a letter finally came saying, "Go down and meet the train.
Your son's a-coming home from the war."

She smiled and went right down, she looked everywhere around
But she could not see her soldier son in sight.
But as all the people passed, she saw her son at last,
When she did she could hardly believe her eyes.

Oh his face was all shot up and his hand was all blown off
And he wore a metal brace around his waist.
He whispered kind of slow, in a voice she did not know,
While she couldn't even recognize his face!

Oh! Lord! Not even recognize his face.

"Oh tell me, my darling son, pray tell me what they done.
How is it you come to be this way?"
He tried his best to talk but his mouth could hardly move
And the mother had to turn her face away.

"Don't you remember, Ma, when I went off to war
You thought it was the best thing I could do?
I was on the battleground, you were home . . . acting proud.
You wasn't there standing in my shoes."

"Oh, and I thought when I was there, God, what am I doing here?
I'm a-tryin' to kill somebody or die tryin'.
But the thing that scared me most was when my enemy came close
And I saw that his face looked just like mine."

Oh! Lord! Just like mine!

"And I couldn't help but think, through the thunder rolling and stink,
That I was just a puppet in a play.
And through the roar and smoke, this string is finally broke,
And a cannon ball blew my eyes away."

As he turned away to walk, his Ma was still in shock
At seein' the metal brace that helped him stand.
But as he turned to go, he called his mother close
And he dropped his medals down into her hand.

[Subdivisions]

161. God Bless both of them. And...

GOD DAMN YOU GEORGE W. BUSH!

[BlueIris]

167. Thanks for posting this. Far too many people know of the war,

but in so many ways it still isn't tangible to them. Ty Ziegel's wedding pics might make it more real to them.