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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:18 PM
Original message
Guess Who's "Illegal" Now?
Guess Who's "Illegal" Now?
Saturday, August 25, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP6NHYnSueYVIDEO:

The clip above is Rev. Joe Fuiten, pastor of the Cedar Park Church in Bothell, WA. In it, he carefully explains that Christian-based social conservatism is the way it's always been in America. And anyone who disagrees, he says, is -- flat out -- an "illegal alien here."

Considering how the GOP has been using "illegal immigration" as an excuse for suspension of all kinds of civil rights, this characterization should give us at least as much pause as the "Battle Cry" footage does. We've been arguing recently that the Christian right no longer even tries to make a secret of the fact that it considers itself a master race, endowed by the Creator with rights and privileges that exceed -- and even negate -- those of non-believers.

Now, we have the pastor of a large regional mega-church right there on national TV, asserting that those who disagree with his theology are defacto aliens in their own country. Yep. That's right. If you're not a born-again fundamentalist Christian, you can just turn in your passport and your sample ballot now. And don't bother trying to collect on any of the public services your taxes pay for, either. You don't have any more right to be here than someone who spent two days and nights crawling across the Rio Grande to pick strawberries. In fact, according to Rev. Fuiten: you have no rights worth respecting at all.

Of course, this tortured conclusion is based on gross historical revisionism. Many contemporary writers noted with astonishment that America was startlingly unchurched up through the 1840s Great Awakening. Furthermore, several of the most enduringly famous people of the 19th century were secular activists and reformers (like atheist Robert Ingersoll, Jewish activist Ernestine Rose, not to mention Stanton and Anthony and Douglass -- for decades, these people packed 'em in like rock stars wherever they spoke, and their ideas were read and debated in every household in the country. And all were devoted secularists). Fuiten also ignores the fact that other religions have always had a strong presence here -- by the conscious design of the Founders. And, finally; the Christian morals he insists have been the "native" state of Americans have been mostly honored in the breach. Like most moralists, he's referring back to some imaginary golden age of morality that never existed anywhere except in the minds of scandalized would-be reformers. (And this utopian image, too, has a history almost as long as that of the nation.)

But it's not just a bad interpretation of the past that makes Fuiten's statement so dangerous. It's what this kind of logic can lead us to in the future. Fascism requires purity crusades against an out-group that's seen as polluting the national body politic. The line between pseudo-fascism and the real deal is crossed at the point where the state sanctions the use of violence in furthering that crusade, as it did on Kristallnacht in Nazi Germany.

more at:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/08/guess-whos-illegal-now.html
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. What are y'all waiting for? E-mail him and tell him what you think.
joe.f@cedarpark.org
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Rev. Joe can kiss my ass! n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. mmm.... sweet, sweet christian zealots.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Can we send all these psycho fucks back to the Springer show now? -n/t
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm thinking of the generous-hearted DUers
Who wouldn't let a baby born on American soil be a citizen no matter what the constitution says.

Of course, they're not a bit like this guy. Nuh uh.
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sounds like
its time for the IRS to terminate his churches tax exempt status. Then see how fast everyone becomes legal again.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thyis should be interesting. In some ways it seems like an HOA - but the terms are
rather extreme by any standards.

I doubt it would hold up in court.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'd like to tell that fundie nutjob to get his lousy ass out of MY state!
He's got some nerve.
I'm irritated he lives so close to me. Where does he think he is? Washington is a blue state.
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Time for an IRS audit of this politician masquerading as a preacher.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's what they are looking for
a massive body of people with no human rights and no government to stand up for them

now we have, at most the stateless Palestinians of this world

he'd like to live amongst hordes of people with no citizenship status and no rights? And he thinks those people will just quietly go to the gas chambers? Or submissively give in to his rules for the right to exist?

how these people call themselves Christians when their hatred is so plain I'll never know.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Come get me Rev.
Illegal Alien Atheist, and you can kiss my A$$.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. What a moran
Edited on Sat Aug-25-07 08:47 PM by HughMoran
Another hateful piece of shit trying to divide our country and thusly cause massive death and destruction.

He is NOT a Christian.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. Motherfucker can kiss my ass.
America is too big and too secular for such a movement to ever actually work. The sick part of this great sweep rightwards of the past 27 years is that no theocracy can truly ever win in the USA; the populace will not take it. The best they can hope for is to come into power enough to try and enforce some sort of military control supporting the theocratic agenda. If that should ever come to pass, however, the good ol' US would rewrite the books on guerrilla warfare, mark my words. We are a nation too built on independence of thought, too loaded with gun-toting citizens, and too plain geographically large for a non-populist fascist system to ever succeed.

Why is that so sick? Because the bastards have gotten damn close to being able to try and enforce the unenforceable military/theocratic agenda. What will they do when their victory is snatched from them as the country, quite naturally, swings left in the coming years? How far will the Fuitens and BattleCry freaks, the neocons and the theocrats, the anti-abortion murderers and the dittoheads, go to grasp the shrinking straws of control they thought were so surely theirs at the height of the fundamentalist madness in this country? I don't know, but I know we are closer than ever to seeing the righties attempt military control in this country, which by my analysis puts us damn close to a sick, sick internal conflict.

Brrrr. K n R
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ummm ....
When you have followed this phenomenon and understand both its intents and the reasoning behind it, it is not at all shocking to see such a bold-faced proclamation by the Pastor of a Mega-church. That person is simply stating a well-entrenched fact in a more public arena.

The charisma and often, the capitalistic hypocrisy that is available to self-rightous leaders of small and large bodies of people who have given themselves over to trusting and believing them via the process of association. The logic is that, superficially at least, that person talks to God and God talks back to them.

By providence they are divinely sanctioned to be in their position as leader of the flock, therefore, they speak for God and are truly righteous, hence we follow them, hang on their every word, and do what they tell us to, both privately and publicly. If God wants a Kingdom on Earth, well then, we will do everything we should and can to make it so, even though it is intolerant, barbaric, brutish, blood-thirsty, and freedom-loathing in nature. The Pastors have a shot at being top-dogs in that game, and of course, the righteous won't have to worry, (so they think) about the crimson tide of constriction and crimson rivers that flow from such an ideology. No, the torture of men, women and children, the endless stonings, and other gruesome details will only be for the non-believers, infidels, and what have you. They fail to realize that the outcome of Christo-Fascism, enacted into the law of the land, would probably become the most fearsome, awful, horrific event in history, making Counts Dracula and Draco seem as funny and effervescent as Sonny and Cher, or Mr. Bubble and Frankenberry. They certainly don't imagine the result as turning back on them concerning just how "sufficiently Christian" they may fail to be, considering the differences of opinion and vast numbers of schisms and interpretations that modern Christianity is known for.

This mentality is not at all new, and it is more pervasive than you might think, unless you become aware of the larger picture. The Christian fundamentalist impact on American politics and ideology has been gaining speed and influence now since the Reagan administration. Many of you know just how they form the base for the current Fascist regime.

They are prone to believe what they are told by people they trust and to foster and create a society that empowers them, be it by their identification with centralized, authoritarian power. That power being an ersatz version of their God's rule by anyone who can convincingly pull-off the role for them. Like nationalism, this kind of fundamentalist ideology is based on a very invasive form of group-think that capitalizes on the freedom to express and act in accordance with their religious convictions, (or the interpretation of their convictions by those who manipulate them) while, at the same time, advocating Fascist and treasonous actions that intend on foisting Mosaic Law on the larger population.

This is still a growing, grass-rootsy movement has not gone away, nor has it petered-out. In fact, the hard times ahead are certainly fertile ground for Christo-Fascist ideas along with the rather docile penchant its believers have for overt, dogmatic tyranny for all people, everywhere.

It is obviously very tempting to use the pulpit and the money it provides to steer people in directions that serve to expand your own, personal wealth, scope, and power. That's the Fascist in all of us and yes, temptation does strike these religious, talking heads, maybe harder than those who are honest about their own faults, doubts, and ignorance.

A good resource for those who really would like a primer on this state of mind and push for religious tyranny that certainly makes them a good party stop for the Taliban, (play some cards, talk shop, stone a few infidels) is the Yurica Report, (amongst others):

http://www.yuricareport.com/
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-25-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. what a k00k
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wow... just effing wow.
If we use this logic, then it might make more sense to kick out anyone who doesn't follow native american beliefs.
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. Betcha ths guy's Freak would make Haggard shudder. n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
18. So who is he endorsing for president or other offices?
Use this to take power away from the group. I'm sure that people will not like to be told that they are not citizens on the basis of this religious cult and that they are trying to gain power. Nip it in the bud. Just don't sit around and hem and haw. Fight back.
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The Vinyl Ripper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. Americans would bend over for such a regime..
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 07:44 AM by The Vinyl Ripper
After all, we let them look in our bloodstream to make sure that we are good, law abiding, little sheeple.

Once drug testing became the norm in America, I knew the jig was up for freedom.

It's really only a matter of time.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
20. I wonder if any of his flock knows that the christian religion was based on
astrology???
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
22. I think he should be deported and all his evil flock too!
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