Father holding newborn gets shot with Taser at hospital

[Judi Lynn]

Father holding newborn gets shot with Taser at hospital
By JUAN A. LOZANO Associated Press Writer
Article Launched: 08/14/2007 01:10:18 PM PDT


HOUSTON—In a confrontation captured on videotape, a hospital security guard fired a stun gun to stop a defiant father from taking home his newborn baby, sending both man and child crashing to the floor.

Now the man says the baby girl suffers from head trauma because she was dropped.

"I've got to wonder what kind of moron would Tase an adult holding a baby," said George Kirkham, a former police officer and criminologist at the University of California-Berkeley. "It doesn't take rocket science to realize the baby is going to fall."

The trouble began in April when Williams Lewis, 30, said he and his wife felt mistreated by staff at the Woman's Hospital of Texas so they decided to leave. Hospital employees told him doctors would not allow it, but Lewis picked up the baby and strode to a bank of elevators.

More:
http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6621451?nclick_check=1

[porphyrian]

1. What the fuck? - n/t

[EFerrari]

2. Wtf? I signed myself and my baby out after about an hour.

They cannot keep you there against your will!

Good god.

[ThomCat]

3. That guard needs to be in jail for that kind of reckless behavior.

And that hospital is in for one hell of a lawsuit. x(

If there is any permanent injury to that child I hope they raise legal hell. :nuke:

[EFerrari]

5. We have to revisit who gets to hold a taser because THIS

is completely out of control. :nuke:

[ThomCat]

9. Agreed. I hope whatever agency they got that guard from

loses their insurance over this shit.

[redqueen]

12. It's $#*(@%& unbelievable.

x(

[EFerrari]

15. I didn't let them put crap in the baby's eyes or circumcise him

or mess with him in any way. No one was happy with me, but we just signed out. But that was before TASERS are used on new parents. :grr:

[TwilightGardener]

27. You have the right to parent as you see fit, but remember, the nursery

nurses aren't there to harm your baby. If you're not a medical professional yourself, I hope you at least listened to the staff's reasoning on matters of care before making your decision to leave. After that, it's up to you.

[EFerrari]

36. You don't need to be a medical professional to make common sense

decisions like not blinding your child for no reason but to satisfy a knee jerk protocol that protects the hospital, not the baby.

Because he didn't get crap in his eyes for no reason, my baby started following me with his eyes the very first day and the whole bonding process was jump started. And so on.

Yeah, it's up to parents to educate themselves and make informed decisions.

[TwilightGardener]

40. That's true, to some extent, but things aren't generally done in a newborn

nusery "for no reason"--for example, the eye drops are a bactericide to prevent infection and blindness from gonorrheal or other infections. All I'm saying is, hear out the staff, who have seen and cared for a bazillion babies, and weigh it against your own common sense, instead of taking a closed-minded, suspicious, or adversarial approach. Not saying you did that, of course.

[EFerrari]

48. I hear you. We really are on the same side.

The small point I'm making is that if you know that there is zero chance your baby will have problems because you've done your homework and know you are infection free, it's still a battle to convey that to the hospital staff. That close-minded thing goes both ways, lol.

I had to sign a big stack of paper before we went home but there was no real friction and many good wishes and that was a different situation than what sounds like impulsive behavior all around in this case. :(

[TwilightGardener]

53. Yep, it's very hard to get past the entrenched protocols and an RN's training--

we always fear worst-case scenarios, not just for ourselves legally but for the patient's health as well. I'm quite positive that the nurses/MD's you dealt with did a GREAT BIG BUNCH of CYA charting about your decisions, LOL! That said, you sound like you were reasonable and thought it through, and it's YOUR baby. You have to trust your own instincts.

[EFerrari]

122. He was a great big baby, too. Kept doubling his weight.

I got impressive biceps before he walked at 7mos.

And yeah, that was the BIGGEST stack of forms I've ever seen and I applied to grad school. :rofl:

[BanzaiBonnie]

82. I had a nurse try to keep me from going home with my newborn

because we had not given her a name yet. She said NO, you may not leave the hospital. I said no way, and off I went.
No one was going to hold me hostage because of no name for an infant. Some people get caught up in their own power.

[EFerrari]

86. They really do. Good grief. n/t

[WolverineDG]

106. My fave is when they make up shit

about what name the baby can have & if the father can be put on the birth certificate. :eyes: I had one client who had 1 kid with her last name because the father wasn't there when he was born (even though they were married & he was not present because he was out of town working).

I hope this baby girl is going to be all right. What kind of idiot would even think of tasering a biological parent holding his child? :crazy:

dg

[LeftyMom]

186. So there's no reason to do the eye goo if mom doesn't have an STD.

We didn't do the eye goo or the hepatitis B shot (I figured the chances the baby was going to crawl out of the hospital and share needles with a hooker were about zero) or get his penis mutilated.

My experience was that most of the staff got really pissy about deviation from routine but had no clue why any of those routines were supposedly important or the arguments for and against them. Honestly, I was somewhat less than impressed.

[Fleshdancer]

161. Just out of curiosity....

What is this blinding crap in the eye that you speak of? I gave birth to my daughter in Japan and there was no blinding crap involved (thank goddess). Can you explain this for me? Was this in the US? Do all hospitals do this and if so, what for?

[EFerrari]

164. Silver nitrate. I was so clueless and had such an awful first time out

the second time I read like a maniac. And learned why silver nitrate is put in babies' eyes -- to protect them from any vaginal infection Mom might have. (I hope I'm getting this right.)

So, I had myself tested and there was no infection and decided to decline that for my second baby. I was lucky because I didn't need drugs and he didn't get that stuff in his eyes and I also refused circumcision for him. And it was remarkable how alert he was in comparison and how much more quickly we bonded and established a stable nursing pair.

Looking back, I'm surprised I had the ovarian fortitude to buck the system successfully because I was only 22. lol

[FloridaJudy]

183. They don't use silver nitrate any more

Instead they use a mild antibiotic ointment. I've used the same stuff on myself for pinkeye, and it's not that irritating.

In Florida it's against the law not to use some sort of prophylaxis against eye infections in newborns. The practice was started back in the days when gonorrhea was a leading cause of infant blindness. These days, Chlamydial infections are more common, and though less serious, they can still be nasty.

[Donnachaidh]

44. I had to threaten to sue everyone on the floor before they listened to me

My horror started when my kid was mis-diagnosed with a heart problem. It grew when I was wheeled into the nursery and this humongous nurse was DANGLING my newborn by a foot, above his crib, as she poked his toes for blood samples.

The Doctors were intent on doing open heart surgery on him before we got a second opinion. It took the threats and screaming to get him medi-vacced to UCLA hospital. He had NO problem at all, and especially one that required cracking his chest open.

Since then I cannot agree with blanket statements on any personnel working in hospitals. There's always the exception.

[TwilightGardener]

49. Your story DOES sound awful, but I was just talking about routine care

and protocol, in this case. There are always some bad medical folks out there--I worked with a few, so I know what you're saying. No one should ever have blind trust in medical professionals--these are flawed human beings, after all. You did the right thing by asking questions and raising a stink. Good parental instincts are almost never wrong, I believe.

[Donnachaidh]

73. But that was just it -- I HAD put my faith in the doctors,

All this happened in the middle of the night. And it turned out later that SERIOUS mistakes had been made, by not one but several medical personnel.

My heart goes out to that family. That guard should be in JAIL. A parent will do anything to protect their kids.

[EFerrari]

50. OMG. How terrifying.

:scared:

[Donnachaidh]

191. it was - and I still cry over that image of that nurse

My son was PURPLE and screaming while she dangled him in the air. He still has scars on his feet and legs from that.

The UCLA nurses and doctors loved this kid and within a couple of hours told us that the original *supposed* heart condition evaluation was dead WRONG. And they treated him like a king. Far from the manhandling and piss-poor, potentially deadly *treatment* he received from the first hospital.

[JuniperLea]

132. I had to grab my four-year-old...

And threaten to go to a "real" hospital once.

He'd fallen from a playground aparatus... we were playing in the sand and he took off climbing like a monkey before I could catch him... some other kid pushed him off! He hit his head on the way down and was inconsolable for over an hour. I grabbed him and headed to the hospital immediately... I couldn't even check his pupils he was so hysterical... he finally stopped, but kept falling asleep and I couldn't wake him... then I was hysterical! I couldn't get one nurse or one doctor to even look at him, no triage, not a damn thing! Finally, I very loudly left for a "real" hospital... I had two doctors at my side before I got to the door.

[EFerrari]

166. Oh my god. Sometimes we have to roar like lions

and maybe that's just how the world is, but it seems like such a stupid way to run a health system. :(

[Colorado Progressive]

156. here here on no circumcision!

[EFerrari]

167. I don't want to hijack the thread but why do we just routinely cut up

our boys? What is THE MATTER with us? :shrug:

[Clark2008]

221. Crap in your baby's eyes?

What would they be putting in his eyes?

They rinsed my daughter's eyes out because she has stopped up tear ducts, but after that, they simply told us to rinse them out with water and massage them until they cleared up over time.

[mitchtv]

25. what good is a new toy

if you can't use it?

[indepat]

11. Welcome to post-9/11 Amurikkka with neocon-style justice for all

[Richard Steele]

81. Goddamn STRAIGHT! He's clearly UNFIT to hold any sort of position of "Authority".

And quite possibly unfit to walk the streets without supervision.

This was CRIMINALLY "out of line".

[shance]

154. More importantly why are security guards now able to carry tasers?

Are we going to have postmen carrying them soon?

[ThomCat]

170. I'm sure he probably bought it on his own

and nobody ever told him he couldn't carry it. I worked security jobs back when I was an undergrad and there was this very macho attitude about weapons. I'm sure it hasn't changed much.

[bleedingheart]

194. according to an article posted below the parents may not have had custody of the child

"Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant does not appear to be suffering any health problems from the fall."

If the parents abusive relationship was so bad that CPS took custody of the child...then apparently the hospital staff were right to be concerned about the health of this child...

[TwilightGardener]

4. I can understand the staff and security trying to stop him VERBALLY, because

the baby may not have been medically cleared to go home. But Tasering is nuts.

[EFerrari]

10. The baby doesn't need to be cleared to go home.

You sign out "against medical advice" and that's it. That baby is not the property of the hospital.

[TwilightGardener]

18. I understand that (I'm a nurse)--I'm saying, it sounded like the guy

just impulsively snatched the baby and headed for the exits--THAT'S a little alarming. And besides, what if that baby had some medical condition, like jaundice? Staff would normally try to talk someone out of leaving against medical advice (AMA)--I've done it a million times. But this guy might have caused harm to the baby (medical or otherwise, if the guy didn't seem rational) if there was some reason the baby was not going to be imminently discharged, so I can see why the staff would not just watch the guy walk away without trying to talk to him. Still, you can't "drop" the guy. That's all I'm saying.

[EFerrari]

23. Oh, I agree. You TALK to the guy.

Who is STUPID enough to taser a dad holding a new born? That's crazy.

[TwilightGardener]

32. What they should have done, if they thought this guy wasn't in his right mind,

was to call "Code Pink" and have the doors to the hospital blocked until the situation could be sorted out.

[EFerrari]

39. One count of false imprisonment would be easier to deal with

than attempted manslaughter and child endangerment.

Geezus. If you need to tell someone not to taser someone holding a baby, that person needs to find another line of work. :crazy:

[TwilightGardener]

42. LOL! They didn't exactly hire the best and the brightest, did they?

[cui bono]

171. Yeah, call Code Pink! I can see it now...

A bunch of women in pink hats holding signs saying:

NO MAYBE
LEAVE THE BABY


WE'LL TREAT YOU MILD
IF YOU LEAVE THE CHILD


:rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

181. "Hey Hey! Ho Ho! We ain't lettin' this baby go!"

:rofl:

[cui bono]

190. LOL! - "No Baby, No Peace!"

What do we want?

The Baby!

When do we want it?

NOW!!!


:rofl:

[pnwmom]

30. That's true, and I'm not defending the officer, who should be fired,

but our hospital has sensors that raise an alarm when a baby is removed from the unit. In that sense, a baby needs to be cleared -- the staff needs to remove the sensors so the alarms don't go off. I wonder if the officer knew that this was a parent? Though obviously even in an abduction situation a taser should not have been used.

[EFerrari]

47. You're right -- I forgot about those wackos that steal babies.

What a mess. :(

[Xithras]

46. According to the article, the guards hadn't confirmed he was actually the father.

He just tried to walk out with the baby, but the elevators locked and an alarm sounded when he approached them (automatic wrist band security thing). The guards claim that they were trying to determine whether he was actually the father, but he became combative and abusive. The guard tased him when he refused to identify himself or hand over the child.

Taser abuse happens, but when you set off the anti-kidnapping systems in a hospital, are aggressive and refuse to identify yourself to security, and are holding an unknown baby while demanding to be set free, you bring it on yourself. The guy DID NOT check the child out, he simply tried to walk out the doors with it and became hostile when they tried to stop him.

My last remaining shred of sympathy for the guy evaporated when I found out that the baby is in state custody right now because both parents are physically violent. Sounds like a great environment for a kid.

Unless the video shows the security officers to be lying, the only fault I find is that they didn't have a better plan to catch the baby. You CANNOT just let an irate man storm out of a maternity ward with a baby simply because he claims to be the father. Preventing kidnapping is one of the few areas where the use of force IS acceptable.

[EFerrari]

56. No, the use of force here was completely over the top.

What good does it do to prevent a possible "kidnapping" if you endanger the child's life in the process?

[Xithras]

67. Because an aggravated kidnapper is likely to use the baby's life as a bargaining tool.

By the sound of it, the father wasn't behaving in a way we would expect any reasonable father to. If the security guards genuinely believed the baby to be in imminent danger, they acted appropriately by tasing him before it could escalate any further.

It's really hard to call this one without seeing the video though. If the guy was being as abusive and unreasonable as the article suggests, using force to detain him and remove the baby from his grasp would have been justified. Of course, self-interested security guards and reporters looking for a good story have been known to twist the facts in the past, so I really want to see the video before making a judgment on this.

That said, nobody should ever be permitted to just walk out of a nursery with a baby without at least identifying themselves, and people who attempt to do so should be physically stopped using whatever reasonable force is necessary to do so. There are good reasons for these policies, primarily to stop kidnappers and non-custodial parents from walking off with babies they shouldn't have.

[EFerrari]

69. First, I don't believe this account of the incident. I just don't.

I've known too many Spaniards. :)

Second, that guard could have taken some time to talk the guy down. He wasn't going anywhere. The elevators where shut down. Over the top. :shrug:

[Xithras]

92. Which is why I want to see the video.

My suspicion about the officers claim is somewhat nullified by the fact that the kid is in state custody because the parents are violent people anyway.

Like I said, I want to see the video.

[EFerrari]

93. I wonder if they really do have a rap sheet. The story is too pat.

I'd like to see it too because this story stinks.

[TwilightGardener]

62. Oh Lord, what a mess--no easy answers here. Well, as Paul Harvey says,

now we know the REST of the story!

[soothsayer]

6. was that cop formerly the Ruby Ridge FBI agent who shot the lady holding the baby?

I'll never forgive silence of the lambs for allowing the wife of that agent---the slutty blonde ankle-bracelet wearing fbi chick that Clarice is based on---for introducing a scene in the sequel (the one with the hogs) where dear Clarice encounters a lady who looks like she's holding a baby but instead is (or also is---I ferget cuz whenever I see it I start fuming) packing major machine guns or something. I know that was done to justify why her bloodthirsty, inhuman, criminal husband shot at that lady holding a baby.

[JVS]

7. America! Fuck yeah!

[d_b]

17. YEAH!!

http://www.funfreepages.com/flash/america_fuck_yeah.php

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Texas Is Becoming The Disney World of Hell

WTF is it with these people? Do they need air conditioning or something?

It seems like 70% of the blindingly stupid stories come from Texas.

[YOY]

13. It has its oasises of sanity

Austin for one...

[rucky]

19. even Austin, not so much anymore.

ever since Captain Quackenbush's turned into a Border's.

:(

[Madspirit]

41. I Still Love MY Austin

...and it still votes Democratic in EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WITH FAIL AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

Quackenbushs...yeah, not good but we've lost lots here. We still have lots.

Lee

[Javaman]

51. Electric lounge, liberty lunch, black cat, shall I go on?

:cry:

[Madspirit]

54. Honey...I grew up in the Armadillo World Headquarters

I know all we've lost. Still, a good town compared to many.

I do really miss all you named. I loved them. I could name all day, places we've lost...Nobody Strikes Back, (the best ice cream parlor in the world, with glowy posters and black lights as their only lighting.) Spellmans...the place I got the drunkest I've ever been. Club Foot, yes, Black Cat, Liberty Lunch and Electric Lounge.

Still, no place else I would live.

Lee

[rateyes]

148. Hmmm.. GLBT community in Austin, TX...

You probably know my brother...a gay man who teaches at UT.

[DFW]

94. We HAVE air conditioning. It's civilization we're a little short on

And that's by no means all of us. Unfortunately, it's
way too many of us. (Coming to you live here from DFW airport,
where the air conditioning is, thankfully, working.)

[tularetom]

14. They give tasers to friggin rent a cops?

If I was a lawyer I'd be on the phine right now to Mr Lewis. Betcha there's been a feeding frenzy of calls to him right now. I think even I could win this case.

[ceile]

28. He's an off duty cop. link

http://www.newcitizenship.net/2007/04/taser-used-on-dad-leaving-houston.html

"A Houston man has been charged with endangerment after an incident at The Woman's Hospital where an off-duty Houston police officer used a Taser on the man as he tried to leave the hospital with his infant daughter.

William Lewis dropped to the hallway floor after being shocked in the incident early Thursday morning, and his 2-day-old daughter fell from his arms about 2 feet before landing on the floor, police said..

Lewis and his wife today said the use of the Taser was inappropriate. The Police Department said it was necessary because they considered the baby to be in danger, and cited reports of previous threats made by the man.

"If the father had just complied with the rules, there would have been no 'Tasing,'" said Capt. Dwayne Ready, a Houston police spokesman."

[AspenRose]

16. Fifty bucks says this happened to a member of a 'visible minority group'

Any takers? If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected, but.....my spidy senses tell me....

[ThomCat]

22. I'm betting that you're right.

I have this nagging suspicion in the back of my head.

[EFerrari]

26. My thought, too.

It would be nice to be wrong.

[malaise]

31. You're correct

This is fugging madness

[EFerrari]

70. Do you know for sure? It wasn't in the AP story. n/t

[malaise]

118. I'm betting you're correct n/t

[EFerrari]

141. Turns out, he's white. n/t

[malaise]

153. LOL

Things are getting worse.

[EFerrari]

157. Well, there's the class issue, too -- that thing I was taught by my

sweet public school teachers didn't exist. lol

He doesn't look like a stockbroker. This damn culture.

[sarge43]

I'd say that's a sucker bet, DesertedRose. n/t

[HuffleClaw]

37. that was my FIRST thought too n/t

[n2doc]

104. You would lose the bet

the link down below has a vid. The guy is white (but has a biker look to him, goatee/bald)

[EFerrari]

110. What post # is it, please? TIA

[AspenRose]

175. Wow, you mean I WAS WRONG?!?

Gee, that NEVER happens, I swear. :P

Seriously, though, this kind of reminds me of the child that a "Christian" doctor refused to treat for an earache because her parents had tattoos and the doctor didn't like the way they "looked."

It's unfortunate when appearances....either those we're born with or those we choose to cultivate as part of our lifestyle....can get you tasered. That's damn scary.

[EFerrari]

176. I hope, for the children, that we can set this right.

I was only looking for a link and Emit gave me one down thread.

:hug:

[Marrah_G]

193. Just keep an open mind

Because we all know that even violent, unstable assholes can and frequently reproduce. The guard was probably too quick to use the taser since the baby was in the man's arms, but since we weren't there we do not know if the man was threatening to kill the child or any other number of scenarios.

I just think we ought to keep an open mind rather then jumping to the conclusion that the father is a great person and the guard is a monster. That guard may have been trying to save a baby's life.

It is a nursery with good security so I would bet it is all on film anyway.

[EFerrari]

219. At some point, keeping an "open" mind is the refusal to make

an assessment.

The tape we have indicates no threats from the father.

And, this thread is replete with criticism of all parties.

That poor baby, Marrah. Born between those parents and this system. :(

[DemBones DemBones]

145. Having a "biker look" makes him part of a visible minority in some

people's tiny minds. Tase that Hell's Angel! Never mind the baby, we've got to take him down.

Never mind that the elevator doors were locked . . .

[DemBones DemBones]

147. Having a "biker look" makes him part of a visible minority in some

people's tiny minds. Tase that Hell's Angel! Never mind the baby, we've got to take him down.

Never mind that the elevator doors were locked . . .

[gollygee]

20. This is why home birth is popular, folks

if hospitals want people to give birth in hospitals, they need to re-think this kind of behavior. And whatever made them want to leave the hospital in the first place.

[EFerrari]

29. I had one and have assisted in several of them.

Yeah, hospitals can be horrible places for PEOPLE.

[Marrah_G]

195. I was forunate to be in a hospital for the birth of my second son

He would have died if not for the amazing staff of Women and Infants Hospital in Rhode Island.

I'm sorry so many have had bad experiences in hospitals. Mine have always been good, including literally saving my life and the lives of my kids a few times. Maybe it is the area I live in.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

97. Unfortunately, some of us women need a hospital to give birth.

Me, for instance. In the old days I would be dead, back before C-sections.
I can't do homebirth. Mandatory C-secction because of a narrow wheelbase.

But I agree this was over the top, and hospitals can be horrible places.

[EFerrari]

112. Hospitals used to be places where people went to die.

I hope we aren't going back in that direction. :(

[hedgehog]

120. Just a comment from a mother of six here:

Baby #4: perfect pregnancy, normal labor, got into some kind of problem just before crowning. He was delivered quickly with something that looks like a cross between a suction cup and a plumber's helper. If he hadn't been delivered that quickly, he would have been dead. As it was, he spent about 6 hours in the neonatal intensive care nursery until his breathing stabilized. Most births need no medical intervention (aside from pain control) but when things do go bad, they go bad fast.

[gollygee]

127. Then maybe hospitals should work on being more friendly toward new parents

so people stop wanting to give birth at home.

[hedgehog]

162. I think a lot of them are. I saw a big difference between the births

of my first and last child. St. Joseph's Hospital here in Syracuse made arrangements for me to board for several days when three of my children had to remain in the hospital for treatment under the bilirubin lights. I was able to nurse and bond with them with no problem. Some hospitals clearly have a ways to go.

[gollygee]

163. I hope so

I'm hoping to get pregnant again here soon.

[Hekate]

179. My daughter needed a quick C-section. When things go wrong, they can be fatal.

My cousin was so hell-bent on home-birth she fudged her previous history a wee bit. Good thing the midwife had a quick line to an ambulance, because her uterus started to split during labor. Cousin and baby were eventually fine thanks to hospital intervention, but the midwife was pretty mad. Midwives only want the "perfect" candidates, and who can blame them.

Hekate

[gollygee]

206. See #127

If hospitals are better, and the medical community therefore wants people giving birth in hospitals, then hospitals had better work on becoming more friendly to families having new babies. Otherwise, people will keep choosing to have babies at home. If there are risks to both options, then it's a question of weighing risks - it is not the case that one option is risk free and the other is full of risks.

[DemGa]

21. I'm glad it was not a real cop who tazed him

then the man would be charged with assault for dropping his baby. I hope all are okay here and the parents are able to collect substantially.

[Matariki]

100. The man *was* charged.

The charges were lowered from kidnapping to endangerment. Go figure.

"A Houston man has been charged with endangerment after an incident at The Woman's Hospital where an off-duty Houston police officer used a Taser on the man as he tried to leave the hospital with his infant daughter."
...
"Lewis was first charged with kidnapping, although it was later changed to endangerment, police said. Lewis appeared in State District Judge Debbie Stricklin's court today. His arraignment was rescheduled for April 30 and Lewis is free on a $5,000 bond."

The article also mentions that the security guard has used his taser on at least two other people.

[EFerrari]

103. And it was a real cop, moonlighting.

:(

[rocktivity]

178. If the man is guilty of endangerment, the guard is guilty of criminal negligence.

Tasering someone holding who was holding BABY????

:crazy:
rocknation

[Matariki]

180. the article is kind of old (from april)

i wonder how his case turned out? i can't imagine how he could possibly be convicted for taking his own child out of a hospital, especially after getting tasered on top of it. Of course it *was* Texas. And I'll bet a dollar his ancestors weren't northern european.

I hope he as an especially viscous lawyer...

[ecstatic]

24. So now this baby might have life long brain damage/ learning disabilities

or such? :mad: :mad:

IMO, the guard's actions are equivalent to murder.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Reciprocity]

34. Too bad you can't read the article unless you sign in.

[angstlessk]

35. Need to register at that site...would love to read the article..

can you get me in?

[Book Lover]

57. www.bugmenot.com is your friend (nm)

[nashville_brook]

38. "the rules, the RULES" he must have broke a RULE!

you can't just *leave* a hospital as if you have freedom or something!

[Don Claybrook]

43. I'm waiting to hear the other side of the story

Not all the details are in yet. I imagine we'll find out that the baby was giving the security guard a dirty look or not respecting his authority in some other way. I'm amazed that some people always take the helpless infant/civilian side. Security guards and cops only go into those professions for altruistic reasons, at least here in the US.

And by the way, yeah, this qualifies as bitter sarcasm; unfortunately, it's the kind of statement that some here make every time some hapless soul is mistreated by police (security guard in this case).

[VP505]

52. It was an

off duty POLICE officer working security at the Hospital and a security guard. One would think the police officer would know better but guess not.

[angstlessk]

63. Don and I appreciate your 'fair and balanced' look at the attack

them babies....can't teach em young enough!

[Tsiyu]

45. People, hospital security is insane these days

In nine years of working in hospitals, i was always amazed at the adults who viewed their stay as some prison sentence from which they could not get up and walk out the door.

NO hospital, save for a psych hospital, has ANY authority to stop you from leaving. You can leave five minutes before your surgery is scheduled or two minutes after it's done. They are not prisons and you were not ordered there by any court.

They will say you left against medical advise and that could affect any future malpractice case, but that is the ONLY "punishment" for leaving the hospital against orders.

DOCTOR's ORDERS are merely DOCTOR's SUGGESTIONS and never forget that!!

I hope this hospital is sued big time and if I were that dad I would want to beat the living shit out of that goddamned SG. What a violent, evil freak!

I really am hot and bothered today so can I kick the security guard's ass? please???????

[TwilightGardener]

60. Agreed--stupid and wrong to Taser this guy, but as I noted before,

this was an INFANT'S health and well-being to take into consideration. The infant can't sign AMA papers. I can understand staff trying to convince the guy to stay, and maybe even block him from leaving if he seemed mentally unstable/threatening, but obviously, the Taser thing was not a good plan!

[Tsiyu]

74. If it was his infant and the mother also wanted to leave

then the hospital has NO JURISDICTION to force them to stay. I worked in hospitals for nine years and there is absolutley NO excuse for this behavior on the part of the SG David Boling, who i believe was the Houston cop involved.

There is no rationalizing, justifying or otherwise. As far as i know there was no court order requiring the child to stay in the hospital. In THAT case, then confrontation would be inevitable, but in this case you have - once again - our American badass cops not being able to control another human being so they go Gestapo. What the fuck? Then the cop turned around and charged the father with child endangerment!

You can justify it all you want but NO HOSPITAL has jurisdiction over a person's infant UNLESS there is a court order to that effect. This rent-a-cop ought to be fired and sued big time along with the hospital.

[EFerrari]

75. The part about the mother also wanting to leave gets oddly lost, doesn't it?

She'd just had a baby. She could have identified the father and likely did. This story smears the father and tries to make him look "unreasonable". I don't buy it.

[Tsiyu]

79. I don't buy it either ...it's CYA time for the cop

Even if the father was being difficult, he never struck the officers.

People get upset. GOOD cops are trained in how to calm them down so that no one is hurt.

This cop had a toy and figured he's use it and see what happened - let's have some fun today! He may have seriously caused harm to the infant for his bit of fun.

So just say the father is a psycho and it's all okay that you harmed his child....

the thing that gets me is that the hospital had no better protocol for dealing with this situation. What good is stopping a kidnapper if you kill the baby in the process?

[EFerrari]

88. And there is no evidence beyond the word of the HOSPITAL

that the father was ANYTHING but a father. :shrug:

[Tsiyu]

98. It just dawned on me that when I last gave birth

I believe my hubbie was also given a bracelet to wear to identify him as the Daddy in the hospital. We need to look up this hospital's procedures.

Of course, someone could be wearing a wristband without authorization, but I guarantee the rent-a-cops already knew he was the father.

[EFerrari]

101. Unless that cop was drunk or something, which is a possibility.

Labor wards are different than other wards, aren't they? The staff on shift during my first son's birth knew who the daddy was. He was the guy I cussed out for 16 hours. lol

[Tsiyu]

107. lol

No mistaking who was responsible there!

I know a lot of good cops and i can't see ANY of the good ones doing something like this, so, yeah, maybe the Security guard was busy raiding the med carts when he got the call?

[EFerrari]

109. I do, too. This hood is PD and FD Central. I can't see any of my

friends doing something so utterly stupid.

On the other hand, I remember one classmate of mine in high school went to work for the Sunnyvale PD and that's when I realized there really was no Santa.

[Reciprocity]

77. First off using a taser on anyone holding an enfant wrong period.

That said the father should have identified himself as the father to the security guards.

"David Boling, an off-duty Houston police officer working security at the hospital, and another security guard can be seen on the surveillance video arriving at the elevators and trying to talk with Lewis."

How where they to know if this was not an abduction.

[EFerrari]

89. We don't know that he didn't ID himself. And, they could have

asked Mom. She was right there and wanted to leave, too. Not rocket science but just more sh!tty care in our so called "health care system".

[Tsiyu]

91. That hospital's protocol

"Even if you kill the baby, get the alleged kidnapper!"

Hello? Is there anybody in there?

My guess is that, when the nurses called security, they notified them that it was the father. They knew who it was. They just wanted to have some fun - so what if a newborn gets slammed to the floor in the priocess?

Uppity parents are NOT allowed jusridiction over their OWN CHILDREN in Houston!

[Madspirit]

55. I Hope the Baby Is OK

If not, would someone please drop the rent-a-pig on his head?

Lee

[Junkdrawer]

58. It's an AP story...here's another link:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5053575.html

[EFerrari]

64. So the hospital, the security guard and CPS defend this action.

They didn't know who Lewis was but the mother says *they* wanted to leave. But, no one knew if Lewis was the father. Yeah, CYA right.

[gollygee]

83. I'll say it again - This is why people choose homebirth

We left early simply because I couldn't get any sleep at the hospital and our baby and I were doing fine. But the GRIEF we got for wanting to go home when were were both very healthy was crazy. And that was with both my midwife's and the pediatrician's agreement. Even with both of them agreeing, we had nurses arguing up and down with us trying to keep us there.

[EFerrari]

85. I know. There are some really great and well equipped birth centers

here. I attended a rash of births when my friends insisted upon reproducing in the 80s. No screams of pain wafting down the hallways, no tasers. Just quiet groups of people helping a life into the world. What a contrast.

[Vinca]

59. The taser issue has been front and center lately in our area.

A couple of nonviolent protesters attached themselves to a barrel of some kind and were camping out to prevent a vacant lot from becoming a truck stop. They weren't hurting anything or anyone and the truck stop is still just an idea in the lot owner's head so they weren't stopping construction. Anyhow, 4 cops showed up and when the 2 refused to leave they tased them multiple times. It was really outrageous and I've been shocked at how many letters to the editor support the cops in this instance. By the way, this was in the bluest town in the bluest county in the bluest state: Brattleboro, Vermont. (To make matters worse, apparently there was another incident - still being investigated - where they tased a teenage patient at the local psychiatric hospital AT THE HOSPITAL.)

[VP505]

65. Most of those

letters to the editor were probably from people who haven't been on the receiving end of being bullied by police. If one hasn't experienced it first hand its hard to believe those who are supposed to "Protect and Serve" could do such things. Most people have very little contact with police and simply don't know what assholes some officers really are.

[Tsiyu]

68. I'm thinking maybe all of us should own a Taser

We'll all just go around sending high voltage into each other whenever we don't have control over a given situation.

If it's good enough for cops, why not for the rest of us?

"Let's see. what do i need for my hospital stay:

jammies....check
slippers.....check
toothbrush....check
Taser(in case the security guards get uppity)...check..."

[flashl]

126. Did you know that there are Consumer Taser?

Yep, that right and we can get them in special colors.

[Reciprocity]

61. This doesn't add up for either party.

A police officer should know better than taser anyone holding a baby.

Father holding newborn gets shot with Taser at hospital

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5053445.html

snip
Lewis, who gave the video to The Associated Press, said his daughter landed on her head, but it cannot be seen on the video. He said the baby seems injured since the episode.

<snip>
David Boling, an off-duty Houston police officer working security at the hospital, and another security guard can be seen on the surveillance video arriving at the elevators and trying to talk with Lewis. Lewis appears agitated as he walks around the elevators holding his daughter in his right arm

<snip>
Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant seems in good health.

<snip>
Lewis was arrested and charged with endangering a child. A grand jury in May declined to indict him on that charge, but charged him with retaliation, accusing him of making threats against Boling.

[EFerrari]

66. If a TX grand jury wouldn't indict, bet me this is bs.

:shrug:

And as far as CPS goes, THEY are mostly CYA for the state and lose kids in the system all the time.

[Reciprocity]

71. This happened in April. So why are we just now hearing about it?

[MindPilot]

72. That baby should be tried as an adult!

Endangering the life of a a sworn Officer of the LAW by forcing him to un-holster his Taser is a crime people!! That kid should be locked up for the rest of her life and her parents should be sent to Gitmo. The little terrorist brat must be taught a lesson that will send the right message to other newborns who think they don't have to respect the LAW!

yeah, it's :sarcasm:

[gollygee]

80. HAHA!

too funny!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

76. I smell a big fat lawsuit......

n/t

[lovuian]

78. Patients are allowed to go AMA this was unbelievable

Noone thought about the baby

and to give Security guards freakin tazers OMG

[Matariki]

84. Wow taser someone because they've complained about being mistreated???

Hope the baby is okay and her college is paid for by the lawsuit...

[DeSwiss]

The use of these tasers is OUT OF CONTROL!!!

And it needs to stop.

:mad: K&R!!!

[Name removed]

87. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Uncle Joe]

90. It seems to me, he electrocuted the baby as well, if

the man was holding the baby, they would both feel the taser's effects. Maybe most adults could handle a taser shot, but I don't believe they ever tested them on babies.

[Desertrose]

95. That was my first thought...that poor baby had to be affected....

My god, is everyone powerhungry & just f'in nuts?!

DR

[Xithras]

99. Actually, no, it wouldn't have affected the baby.

You can safely grab a 10 kilovolt main if you aren't grounded to anything. Electricity only hurts you if you provide a path between the poles. With a taser, your skin provides an electrical path between the probes, which is why it hurts. If you were standing on the ground holding someone while they were tazed, you'd probably get shocked too since you would be providing the electricity with an alternate ground. The baby was being held by him while he was being shocked, so she didn't provide a path for the electricity. It wouldn't have harmed her.

It's the same concept as power lines on your car. If a live poweline lands on your car, you won't be hurt if you remain inside the car because your body isn't providing it with a path to ground. The moment you try to step out of your car and your foot touches the ground, you complete the circuit and die.

[qanda]

96. Even if the story is exactly as the hospital and authorities say

The man wasn't able to go anywhere with the child, the elevators had been shut down, so why did they have to use a taser on him? Didn't they know the child would be harmed in the process? I'm not sure who to believe-- the father sounds like he has a few issues, but I do know the child was innocent.

[mikelgb]

102. no fucking way

[depakid]

105. Texas.. or Florida or Ohio

Nothing that happens should surprise you there.

[Uncle Joe]

108. I believe this other brutality happened in Rhode Island,

so I conclude, no region or state has a monopoly on stupidity.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1577853

[mikelgb]

113. I know what you are linking to

and I can't bear to look again

:mad:

[Reciprocity]

111. I need to see the video before I can make a decision on this.

The writer left out a lot of important facts in the article.

First off, did the hospital prevent the father from checking out of the hospital or did the father just grab the enfant and head for the doors?

What did the security guards know at the time of the tasering?
(Like I said before tasering anyone holding an enfant wrong period.)
Did they think this was a kidnapping or just a man trying to leave with his child?

[EFerrari]

114. I really don't care if this was a psychotic kidnapper on wheels.

The response was more dangerous than the presenting problem and that cop needs to be fired. And that hospital needs to be fined or sued for negligence because I don't think you can sue a hospital for gobsmacking stupidity.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

115. Why are American hospitals filled with such assholes?

[EFerrari]

116. Hard to believe it's just us. Where ever there are vulnerable people

@ssholes accrue. So do altruistic people. :shrug:

[AnotherGreenWorld]

121. It seems to be a bigger problem in the US though.

[EFerrari]

133. What makes you think so? (Real question. :-)

[BlueIris]

125. Most hospitals here aren't exactly staffed with honor students.

Most of the folks working in healthcare aren't in the system because they had a lot of other options, and they feel entitled to act like slimy fuckwads because the stress is high and the pay is low (and no, contrary to popular belief, they don't get great health coverage to balance out the "pertinent negatives" involved in working for a hospital).

[AnotherGreenWorld]

139. But even doctors...

I think, more than security staff, they "feel entitled to act like slimy fuckwads." I mean doctors kill over 100,000 people each year. And when they're not killing people, they're making other serious, though non-lethal, errors resulting from their carelessness.

[BlueIris]

143. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that the non-M.D. staff were the only ignorant/assholish ones.

As someone who did my time in both a family of doctors and the healthcare system, I've met (and worked for) plenty of docs whose only "talent" was (sort of, kind of) "practicing" medicine.

The reasons for the decline in skill, intelligence and professionalism of American physicians and other licensed healthcare providers are myriad, I think, including the downward spiral of our educational system since the '70s, increasingly smaller earnings for doctors and those who work in healthcare, the physician and nursing shortage and an unhealthy, irresponsible public with low health information literacy (a major frustration of many docs, nurses and hospital staffers). Those conditions don't give them the right to act like assholes, but the vast majority use them as their excuse. (Oh, and did I mention that the rate of substance abuse among doctors, nurses and other healthcare providers is astoundingly high?)

Also, there's remarkably little substantive accountability for providers, especially the M.D.s, who ruin people's lives. It's a sad, sad little country we have here.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

144. Great post.

"Also, there's remarkably little substantive accountability for providers, especially them M.D.s, who ruin people's lives. It's a sad, sad little country we have here."--That's been my experience.

[EFerrari]

151. We had 32 doctors as tenants in one of our buildings. After dealing

with them, I knew there were 31 doctors in San Jose I'd rather die than trust. :scared:

[likesmountains 52]

149. oh for God's sake...generalize much?

[AnotherGreenWorld]

158. Doctors kill 100,000 people each year.

[likesmountains 52]

165. link? details?

[AnotherGreenWorld]

169. The Medical Malpractice Myth by Tom Baker published by University of Chicago Press

[Stinky The Clown]

117. This is what happens when the demand for 'security' outstrips the supply of .....

..... competent people who want to do the work.

These private security forces are overpopulated with dumbasses and sociopaths. That is not to say all security people meet those definitions, but it IS to say there are more of them on a per capita basis than in the overall population.

At one point, the security force at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions was the third or fourth largest 'police' force in the state. I find that VERY troubling.

[EFerrari]

119. This was a Houston cop moonlighting.

:scared:

[Stinky The Clown]

134. Whoa! Scary is ***right***. Maybe my theorem applies to regular cop forces, too.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

136. Maybe! I have a bunch of cop friends who are neighbors.

I just cannot see any of them pulling sh!t like this. :shrug:

[hedgehog]

123. I was prepared to be appalled at this until I watched the tape.

There is no dialog, but there is something odd about the body language. First of all, the father walks in carrying the infant like a handful of dirty laundry. I've never seen anyone carrying a new born like that. Secondly, during the actual confrontation, the two cops are being very casual until the one lunges forward abruptly with the tasar. I have to believe that something was said or was happening that suggested to the cop that he had to stop the father immediately for the sake of the child.



"Houston police also said the child's mother called authorities on April 2 -- a week before the infant's birth -- to complain about Lewis.

She "stated that her unborn child's father called her and made threats on her and the child's life," Ready said."

[Reciprocity]

130. Question. The video has no sound or there was no talking?

[EFerrari]

131. Is there a link? I can't find one.

:(

[Emit]

135. Here's a link to story and to the video

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5054135.html

[EFerrari]

137. Thank You!

[Madspirit]

138. The Problem With That

The baby fell too. That could have killed the baby.
Lee

[EFerrari]

142. I'm never going to a hospital again if their guards have tasers.

Jesus.

[EFerrari]

140. I saw something different. I saw a man whose body was tense

and my projection is that he was tense because he expected to be challenged. He was holding the baby in one arm but close to his chest and his stride seemed meant to look purposeful -- the way you might walk if you were a guy that size but also, a little scared.

I also saw nothing that would indicate that he provoked those cops in any way.

I don't know if this guy is clean or not. But there was nothing on this footage to suggest (to me) that he wasn't.

[Ilsa]

124. God help us, I just want to get the fuck out of here (TX). nt

[JuniperLea]

128. Sometimes, in some hospitals...

The only way to get attention for your child is to walk out. Boy, they come out of the woodwork then.

I'm sure glad I didn't follow my aunt and mother's footsteps and become a nurse... hells bells. I'm not strong enough to be a compassionate bystander when crap like this goes down.

[Toasterlad]

129. It Was Totally the Baby's Fault.

She shouldn't have resisted arrest. I'm sure she smarted off when the guard told her to stay still. She might even have shit herself in defiance. That disrespect for authority can never be tolerated. As we learned yesterday, any amount of force is completely justified to bring down dangerous criminals who resist arrest like unarmed women and fathers holding newborns.

And the only people who should need THIS: :sarcasm: are the people who actually believe the bullshit I just wrote.

[Reciprocity]

146. I'm confused as to if the father had custody.....

of the child or Child Protective Services has custody?

[EFerrari]

150. I think you are meant to be confused. The mother stated

"they" wanted to leave. Maybe someone forgot to tell her she'd lost custody of her baby or maybe that hospital is trying to cya with this story by tarring its victims.

[Bridget Burke]

217. No, he does NOT have custody.

Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant seems in good health.

From the Houston Chronicle: www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/5053552.html

I'm glad the guards stopped this guy from grabbing the baby. But I wish they could have done it without using their Tasers.

[shance]

152. If they can do it to that father they can do it to you too. Its that simple.

Tasers should be banned.

[EFerrari]

172. They can do it to you and then smear you in the press.

:(

[Aviation Pro]

155. Whoops, seems there's more to the story than just the sound bite....

...apparently there's more than one asshole involved, and the other said asshole is the father. Read the whole story.

Cue the cheerful Leary tune.

[EFerrari]

160. I did. Which piece of it made you think the dad was an asshole,too?

I was arrested for DV -- when my husband was in a paranoid episode. The cops thought they should be safer than sorry and carted me off to jail. I got a mattress and a warm baloney sandwich and had to sign a slip that said I was never arrested to cover their b#tts.

Edit: And this happened 4X even though the PD knew my partner's diagnosis. They STILL needed to cover their rears.

It's not very hard to have police contact. If I can do it, anyone can. lol

/wretched typing. sorry

[KittyWampus]

173. how about the father of that baby beats his wife.

Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant seems in good health.

[EFerrari]

174. Can you point me to the bit about CPS, that would be CPS

that loses hundreds of children every year, has custody of that baby? Because I missed it. Read the innuendo but missed the statement.

[Marrah_G]

197. the wife had reported threats against her and the baby

A week before the child was born and there was a history of domestic violence. I am not making a judgement as to what happened that night but please keep an open mind before assuming the cops are monsters and the father is a gentle angel.

[EFerrari]

209. I read the story. n/t

[1monster]

213. They say they did not know that the man was the baby's father and thought

that he was kidnapping the baby, thus they were justified in tazing him.

So they cannot use the "abusive father" argument.

They can't have it both ways. Either they knew or they didn't know.

[Marrah_G]

214. The mother was also still in her hospital gown

If both parents were leaving why wasn't she dressed? Also she reported threats to her and the unborn child on Aug 2nd to the police.

I would love to know what was said during the altercation. I think that is the key to figuring this whole thing out and whether or not it is a case of police abuse or an abusive husband trying to take a child out of the hospital.

It was 1:30 am and perhaps the father had just found out CPS was on it's way after being notified of the threats a week earlier and perhaps he was trying to leave in a hurry with the child before cps got there in the morning.

The mother wasn't ready to leave, she was still in her hospital gown when the father had the child (and nothing but the child, no diaper bags, bottles, blankets etc) in his hand trying to leave without going through the proper security checks.

I think there is a great deal of this story that we do not know yet.

[Fleshdancer]

159. 2 big screw ups

1. Tasering someone holding an infant? Are you kidding me? The elevators didn't work because the baby still had on her electronic bracelet. It's not like the man holding the baby was going to get away!

2. You don't take babies out of hospitals without proper clearance. However, this in no way justifies what happened to this idiot or his baby. Even if he was not the father and was attempting to kidnap her, he still shouldn't have been tasered.

[lonestarnot]

168. Bushitler relative that.

[Midlodemocrat]

177. If only that baby had been carrying a gun, this never would have happened.

[EFerrari]

182. This is what we get for blocking gay marriage.

[cutlassmama]

184. your link doesn't work and I can't find the story anywhere eom

[EFerrari]

185. Try this:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5054939.html

[Judi Lynn]

207. I just checked it after seeing your post. It's still working for me. Hmmmmm. n/t

[flying_monkeys]

187. How could they say they didn't know the couple wanted to believe

when hospital staff had told them the doctors wouldn't allow then to leave?


Obviously, the couple must have said they were thinking of leaving... yes?



Also, what kind of cop brings out a taser 40 seconds into a chat with anyone? And then tasers a man carrying a baby while Mom is standing *right there*?


(I didn't know Hospitals were now run like prisons where one can't leave without permission, if not a psych patient (who may have been invountarily committed)....)

[TheWraith]

188. That security guard needs to be arrested. Now.

The image of the Taser as a harmless weapon has brought about a hell of a lot of abuse. In this case, some rent-a-cop feeling his "authoritah" assaulted and electrocuted a man who was acting perfectly within his rights, and in doing so may have cause permanent life-altering consequences for a newborn baby.

The use of a Taser by security or law enforcement should be treated exactly the same way as the use of a firearm. Period. If these weapons really are, as some claim, a last resort, then certainly it's not too much to ask that the use of them be treated just as seriously: mandatory suspension and investigation of EVERY incident. Otherwise, people like this asshole on a power trip will continue using them as if they were remote controls to get the little people to obey their orders.

[bleedingheart]

196. the key to this story is knowing the facts

according to the article...posted above..

""Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant does not appear to be suffering any health problems from the fall."

If the parents abusive relationship was so bad that CPS took custody of the child...then apparently the hospital staff were right to be concerned about the health of this child...however the article doesn't state whether CPS did this before or after the father tried to take the child out of the hospital...

However I am thinking that they did it before...and that is why he tried to take the infant...he didn't have custody of the child ..was pissed and he planned to take the kid in spite of this.

If that was the case...the hospital should have transported the child to another hospital to protect her from the parents and remove her from the hospital to avoid an incident like this...

[TheWraith]

208. For starters, don't you think that's how they'd spin it to make it sound more reasonable?

There is no possible justification for tasering a man holding a baby unless he was threatening the child, which he obviously wasn't. Furthermore, I see no evidence to suggest that CPS had any involvement until after the rent-a-cops attacked the father. From the article, I see no justification for the actions of the hospital in trying to prevent them from leaving, for the security guards to have attacked the father, or for that matter for Child Protective Services to have removed the baby from the mother's care.

[EFerrari]

222. Bingo. And given CPS record, it's hard to say if the infant

is in better care now.

[Blue-Jay]

189. This thread is missing something.

If only I could figure out what....

[bleedingheart]

192. The Father and Mother did not have Custody of the Child...The State did...

The father and mother apparently have a history of violent abuse..according to the article above...

"Child Protective Services has custody of the baby because of a history of domestic violence between Lewis and his wife, Jacqueline Gray. Agency spokeswoman Estella Olguin said the infant does not appear to be suffering any health problems from the fall."

Now if this was done before or after the incident...I don't know but if before...

....Protective Services took custody of the child for the child's protection.

Apparently the father and mother didn't like this idea...(even if the mother was sustaining beatings from her husband...she may have really wanted to take the baby home)...

HOWEVER...this is a case where the system was trying to protect that child from a father who had a history of violence and the child was not in their custody because the "system" was concerned..

Now I have to say...if you are a wife beater and you find out that your kid can't come home with you...you might be upset..

But the protective services folks were correct to take custody from this man and the fact that he couldn't handle the fact that his abusive record (and perhapas even his wife's behavior) were the reason...well that might give us an insight into why protective services did this.

If they had done nothing and 6 months later this infant was killed by her father...guess what...everyone would be saying..."why didn't anyone do anything to protect this child"

As for the child suffering trauma...the father is reporting that..not the hospital...he is trying to deflect attention away from his own brutish behavior

[Tsiyu]

198. The father sounds like an ass but that has nothing to do with the

safety of the child.

Immidiate use of a taser is the same as if the cop had pulled a gun and fired it. That is a last resort option - unless one is criminally insane.

There were other ways to handle this. If they feared for the safety of the child, and really needed to rescue the child, they should have done ALL in their power to get the child out of the man's hands before taking him down.

They could have pretended to comply with the father but asked that the mother hold the baby in a wheelchair, perhaps convincing him to give up the child. They could have spent a few minutes trying to calm the guy. From the looks of things, he was spot on to be afraid of those cops.

What is not clear is whether there was an order at that time compelling the hospital to keep the child.

Regardless, a fall like that to a newborn - with a soft skull - is the same as you or I falling a few stories.

Do not tell me that this did not harm this child. No sale. I worked five years in pediatrics and there is no way a head injury like that will not impact this child for life.

Add to this the human element. This child gets to know that this was its "coming home" party.

The cops were inhumane with only a thought of immediate violence as a solution to a confrontation. In a hospital, no less.

There is no excuse or justification, IMHO.

[Marrah_G]

200. What if the father was threatening to kill the child?

You know, the "I'll kill it before I let you take it from me type" the sort that are often very abusive to the women in their lives.

It is easier to just say the cop was a monster though.

The mother reported the father for threatening her life and the life of the unborn child a week prior.

[bleedingheart]

203. sadly you are damned if you do...and damned if you don't in law enforcement

I have a cousin who is a detective...

He has to deal with the ugliest side of humanity every day.

People murdering their kids and telling people..."oh the baby just wouldn't wake up"...meanwhile the kid has fractures from the top to the bottom

men and women who batter and abuse one another ...then one ends up dead...

He gets to see what happens when law enforcement is too late or when the authorities aren't alerted...he deals with homicides...

Then he gets to hear all the blame from both sides..."you didn't do enough"...or "you did too much"...

If this child wasn't taken into protective custody...and the goofy parents had left with her...and then 8 months later she died of shaken baby syndrome or worse...then people would be blaming the hospital, CPS ..etc

[EFerrari]

210. If the father had made such a threat, the hospital would be

trumpeting it all over the press.

[Marrah_G]

211. We haven't heard the officers side of it

All I am saying is that it is very unfair to demonize the hospital and the officer without knowing all the facts. There is a reflex on DU to automatically assume anyone in authority is a zealous, power-hungry monster just waiting to sadistically torture the next innocent that walks by them.

This is not the case and is extremely detrimental to our society as a whole.

Question Authority, demand proof and facts from those in authority, have citizen panels to oversee the departments. But if you cross the line and say "all doctors, nurses, law enforcement, ect. are sadistic pigs who want to make our lives hell" then what you are pushing for is a society without reason and law. Reason and logic demand that we look at a situation and put aside preconceived notions, find out the whole story and THEN start to form an opinion.

Innocent until guilty goes for those cops also.

[EFerrari]

212. Several of us who have cop friends have posted that to this thread.

Frankly, none of my cop friends are stupid enough to taser a person holding a baby. And,I haven't seen the word "monster" in anyone's posts but yours. :shrug:

[Marrah_G]

215. None of our cop friends can make a judgement like that without knowing the whole story

Quote from one of mine "I'd have to really think the baby was going to be badly hurt or killed to do that"

That right there is the point, we don't know what was being said in that hallway yet.

I'd be the first to throw the book at a cop who needlessly put a child in danger, but what I won't do is condemn him without knowing the whole story.

[EFerrari]

220. I'm a liberal. I don't need an authority to do my thinking for me, thanks.

[bleedingheart]

201. I will wait until a third party evalutes the child...

I am well aware of how soft a child's skull is...but I am not taking the father's word for it...I will wait until a doctor gives the all clear.

However no one knows what transpired in the patient room and in that hall way without the sound.

I will say that the hospital should have transferred the infant elsewhere if the parents did not have custody and should have not let the parents near the child...

However these kind of situations are always hard to handle...

[Tsiyu]

205. If he had been threatening the child at the hospital he would

have been convicted of child endangerment. I believe the only charge he was found guilty of is retaliation, calling the cop up later and probably threatening to kick his ass.

The hospital did not see to the safety of this newborn. On that we both agree.

[Marrah_G]

199. It was also 1:30 am

Seems an odd time for normal loving parents to want to check out and insist on checking out without following procedures put in place to protect infants from being kidnapped.

There is alot more to this then people think.

[bleedingheart]

202. that is what I am thinking

[FredScuttle]

204. You go into labor with the security guards you have...

Please welcome our new Hospital Administrator, Don Rumsfeld.

[Beelzebud]

216. How many have to die before we get rid of taser guns?

Why not just give the cops a .45 and let them blow the brains out of anyone they suspect is doing something wrong?

[EFerrari]

218. Because a crony would be out a contract?

:shrug: