Speaker Pelosi and the Plane Problem

[bottomofthehill]

It is time that the House Democrats jump up and defend their Speaker, how one might ask, here is a thought.

Chairman Shelton and Waxman could make sure that the Speaker is treated with the same respect that Republican Speakers were.

Chairman Skelton, Armed Services, could and should request all records as to the Air Force flights that Speaker Hastert and Speaker Gingrich used when they were Speaker. Where did they fly, who was with him ( Family, Staff, Political contributors, Congressmen, other government officials?), did everyone aside from the Speaker reimburse the US Treasury for the cost of the trip, was a similar letter putting conditions on the use of Air Force planes sent to the Republican Speakers or is this new with a Democratic Speaker?

Chairman Waxman should have the Vice -Presidents office produce the records from his office as to use of Air Force planes for travel to and from hunting trips (Did Justice Scalia fly on AF-2for his hunting trip?) and family vacations, were his family and friends and political contributors required to pay?

What is good for the goose is good gor the gander, lets see the treatment and then show the new Democratic Speaker the same respect as the Republicans were shown.

Nothing ends Bullshit fake made up controversy like hearings. Show the light of day on what went on in the past to make good sound policy for the future

[solara]

1. Amen

k&r

[Skidmore]

2. Sorry, pal, but I have to say that if we want reform, even the appearance of

an unethical act should be avoided. It is not about respect, it is about the use and abuse of federal property. We cannot do this also while screaming that the Republics have been corrupt in their dealings with the system.

[bottomofthehill]

4. I do not see the abuse

I only see use and if we look at the past we can develop good use policies for the future.

[Rose Siding]

5. Should that appearance come at the cost of security for the top elected dem?

House Sergeant at Arms Bill Livingood, who is responsible for the speaker's security, advised Pelosi in December that the Air Force had made an airplane available to her predecessor, Dennis Hastert, "for security and communications purposes following September 11, 2001."

He suggested Pelosi, who is second in the line of presidential succession, inquire about the use of a military plane. According to sources involved in the talks with Pentagon officials and Livingood, Pelosi needs a large enough aircraft to fly directly from Washington, D.C., to her home in San Francisco since stopping along the way to refuel poses unnecessary security risks.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250781,00.html

How is assuring the security of the Speaker of the House unethical?

[bottomofthehill]

6. Not only the top elected Democrat.. Second in line to the Presidency

The person who is second in line to the Presidency and the President is so stupid he may forget to breath and that leaves her w weak heart away from becoming the first woman President (Not that I hope the President forgets to breath or anything)

[Skidmore]

13. Aw, come on. Even HRH, Little Boots the Bloody, needs

to have a stop over somewhere to refuel and probably to go potty too. I think all of these guys could do with a few less perks.

[Atman]

9. I don't see it as abuse at all.

As an alert poster pointed out yesterday, democrats whine and piss and moan about their adversaries, but republicans bump their's off. Pelosi needs (and is legally entitled to) the most secure transportation available to her. It isn't her fault the House elected a speaker on the other coast.

Keep in mind these important facts: this inside info on Nancy's plane has been fed to the Republic's Washington Times by Pentagon officials. And it is being advanced by some Republic goob from Florida (christ, Florida again?, not one of the heavy hitters (IOW, a GOP waterboy). Ask yourself why? As a talking head pointed out this morning, it may be very stupid move, strategically, as Ms. Pelosi ultimately has the power of the Pentagon budget. Might not be the best person to piss off right now.

It has nothing to do with corruption -- you're buying in to the GOP talking points Cabal News has been advancing every day for a week. Again...ask why.

.

[Greeby]

3. The Speaker is testifying about global warming right now

Needless to say, she's dealing with bigger problems than what the right-wing is whining about
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[LiberalFighter]

7. Facts

Media Matters -- CNN's Dobbs falsely claimed Pelosi could use Hastert's jet to fly nonstop to California

CNN -- Pelosi to use military planes to fly home

FOX (Amazing) -- Pelosi Blames Bush Administration for Media Reports on Use of Military Plane
She said reports filtering out into the media regarding inquiries about the use of a military plane nearly the size of Air Force One for her travel to and from Washington, D.C., shows a "misrepresentation that could only be coming from the administration ... one would wonder why the practice deemed to be necessary from a security standpoint would be mischaracterized in the press."

The speaker, however, specifically omitted President Bush from her complaints. "I know that it's not coming from the president because he impressed upon me the amount of security I need to have."

House Sergeant at Arms Bill Livingood, who is responsible for the speaker's security, advised Pelosi in December that the Air Force had made an airplane available to her predecessor, Dennis Hastert, "for security and communications purposes following September 11, 2001."

[Dracos]

18. The media is a whore

and has sold out to Bushco a long time ago

[LiberalFighter]

22. Key Points

House Sergeant at Arms Bill Livingood, who is responsible for the speaker's security, advised Pelosi in December that the Air Force had made an airplane available to her predecessor, Dennis Hastert, "for security and communications purposes following September 11, 2001."

The practice of using military aircraft for the Speaker of the House was instituted after 9/11 for security reasons.

"The Air Force determined that safety would be best ensured by using a plane that has the fuel capacity to go coast-to-coast."

To date, Pelosi has traveled once to California on a military plane.

"I know that it's not coming from the president because he impressed upon me the amount of security I need to have."

[Burnsey_Koenig]

8. Newt had no plane.

Dennis Hastert was the first to get the plane and he got it after 9-11 at the White House's request (in order to protect the line of succession). The "problem" with Speaker Pelosi's plane is that it is much larger than the one given to Hastert, But the Air Force is the organization that decides on which plane the Speaker is allowed to use, and they gave her what they had available.

She did reguest a larger plane, from what I've read, but did so based on the location of her home town. She does live 3,000 miles from DC and asked for a plane that could make the trip. Hastert, on the other hand, lived in Illinois which is only a short flight.

The Speaker is allowed 8-10 people to accompany her without charge, but they must be staff members. Family, friends, and non-related peeoples must pay the going commercial rate. That is how it should be, it is a business related aircraft and not a personal shuttle service.

We need tto present all the facts in this issue, and the folks out there know the truth. Pelosi's ratings are incredibly high (I read 49% approval) and they are trying to bring her down. Unfortunately for them, the American People are waking up and are aware of the republic party's underhanded hypocricies.

[Atman]

10. Hastert used a C5

They hoisted him through the drop-door in the back. On a forklift.

:hi:

.

[Rose Siding]

12. I wonder if she asked for a specific plane at all

or just for one that would go the distance to CA without stopovers, for a couple of reasons. Yesterday, Pelosi alluded to the WH creating this controversy about her request-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3100566&mesg_id=3100566

And ABC reports that "various Republican officials in recent days have claimed that Pelosi has requested a C-32 plane for her travels...
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2857672&page=1

As a TPM poster explains, there are versions of the Hastert jet that have more fuel capacity-

snip>
In reading further about the planes… Hastert had a “C-20”… another name for a Gulfstream business jet. Assuming Hastert has the C-20A version, this would be like a Gulfstream II (able to make Illinois non-stop… but sometimes may not make it nonstop to California.
Pelosi wants a non-stop to California plane. Terrific… upgrade her to the C-20H. This is the Gulfstream IV equivalent. It’s basically the same size plane but has the range she wants.

Republicans are accusing her (per ABC article) that she wants the C-32. This is equivalent to a Boeing 757 which holds as many as 200+ passengers in all coach configuration. If this is what she truly requested, this is indeed a giant step up from what Hastert had been using.

Point #3 is the kicker. If she wants to go from Gulfstream to Boeing 757, that is quite a leap. If she just wants nonstop, give her the Gulfstream IV equivalent and be done with it.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012336.php

I don't see ANY reports that indicate that her office said anything to the military beyond asking for a plane that would meet security requirements of a non-stop flight.

[bottomofthehill]

19. I am willing to bet that Newt sure did use Air Force Transportation

And that 9/11 was just a way to justify the future flights.

THe only way to find out is to hold a hearing and find out, although, I did spend some time around Andrews in the late 90's

[theoldman]

11. Although I agree that she should get an airplane that has a long

range capability, I think she should have waited a few months. It would have given the Republicans less opportunity to point fingers. I will bet that the Air Force comes up with a solution using a smaller airplane and the problem will disappear.

[Rose Siding]

17. It already happened but that detail doesn't feed the propaganda narrative-

At the very end of ABC's Republican-serving report-

A Fourth Option?

There are four types of planes available at the 89th Airlift wing, at nearby Andrews Air Force Base  the C-20 Hastert once used, C-21s which are even smaller than the C-20 and thus not able to fly nonstop to San Francisco, and the fabled C-32.

There is also the C-37A -- a military version of the Gulf Stream 5, which is about the same size as the C-20, but is able to fly nonstop to California. One military source who asked not to be identified says that it may be that Pelosi and her aides were shown a C-37A and didn't understand that it was different and more potent than a C-20, since they look so similar.

Would Pelosi be willing to use a smaller plane than the lavish C-32 as long as it could fly coast to coast?

"Yes," said a Pelosi aide.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/print?id=2857672

[jollyreaper2112]

14. how about rummy?

The E-4B is often responsible for Air Force One sightings. The E-4B is being used more frequently since it was chosen by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield as his preferred means of transport when traveling outside the United States. No less than 60 crew members must accompany the aircraft whenever he uses it, more than usually required to operate Air Force One.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4

This is a modified 747. I posted about it a week or two back. This is the kind of shit the Pukes are pulling, we should throw it right back in their fucking faces.

*note*: I did confirm this story through other sources.

[jollyreaper2112]

15. one more fact

The E4, being a 747, requires TWO K-135 tanker planes (707's I believe) to refuel. So for every flight he takes, that's three planes involved, maybe even more if he needs more tankings.

[EV_Ares]

16. Who Is This Woman On MSNBC? The dem spokesperson stated

this was a story with no legs and the American people are more concerned with the war, healthcare, etc. This woman says I think it is a story they care about.

At the end, she says we will be talking about this all day.

The dems need to get some guts and fight back.

All she asked for was a non-stop flight to CA.
That is nothing more than the previous speaker had.

Who & why was this leaked from the Pentagon. As the speaker said, does it have to do with the fact that she has been a critic of them and Rumsfield who still has a desk at the Pentagon. They need to be fixated on the war not a plane the speaker is going to use.

[HuffleClaw]

20. that would do it alright

its funny how they ALWAYS find some silly thing that exposes and reflects upon THEIR own misdeeds to whine about.

[treestar]

21. So true

Where are all the media reports on Chimpy's house in Crawford? McCain and Cheney and the rest live in hovels? I don't think so.

As for the plane, all explanations of it sound perfectly reasonable. After 911, the Speaker has a plane. It's the freepers claiming everything changed after 911. The further away from D.C. the Speaker is from, the bigger the plane.

[bottomofthehill]

23. Looks like Hastert had his own plane, see below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x157599