Improved tactics in downing helicopters important factor in guerrilla victories over major powers

[DeepModem Mom]

NYT: Copter Crashes Suggest Change in Iraqi Tactics
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. and JAMES GLANZ
Published: February 8, 2007

BAGHDAD, Feb. 7 — With two more helicopter crashes near Baghdad, including a Marine transport crash on Wednesday that killed seven people, the number of helicopters that have gone down over the past three weeks rose to six. American officials say the streak strongly suggests that insurgents have adapted their tactics and are now putting more effort into shooting down the aircraft.

The number also includes a previously unreported downing of a helicopter operated by a private security firm on Jan. 31.

Some aspects of the recent crashes indicate that insurgents have become smarter about anticipating American flight patterns and finding ways to use old weapons to down helicopters, according to military and witness reports. The aircraft, many of which are equipped with sophisticated antimissile technology, still can be vulnerable to more conventional weapons fired from the ground....

***

Among the troops, helicopters are still seen as a less vulnerable way to travel than the ground convoys that are commonly subject to roadside bombs that can tear through thick vehicular armor.

Historically, improved tactics in shooting down helicopters have proved to be important factors in conflicts in which guerrillas have achieved victories against major powers, including battles in Somalia, Afghanistan and Vietnam....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/08/world/middleeast/08helicopter.html?hp&ex=1170910800&en=28c2710b8ef39bee&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Cobalt-60]

1. most helicopters are shot down quite easily

Excluding such creatures as the Hind or Apache most helicopters are meat on the table for small arms at low altitude.
Modern turbine powered choppers are more vulnerable than their reciprocating fore bearers. One round in the turbine and it's a prompt return to earth.
The brass apparently failed to learn this lesson while it was raining helis in Viet Nam.

[Solo_in_MD]

3. This appears to mostly be manpads, not gunfire

for which there are fairly good counter measures. There seems to be an effectiveness or tactics issue. Be interesting to see what is worked out.

[DeepModem Mom]

4. Article is page-one lead in NYT print edition today, with this photo --

A CH-46 Sea Knight transport helicopter over Baghdad. One helicopter of that model crashed Wednesday, killing seven people.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Stay around there long enough & they will figure out a way to beat you.

Time is on their side. It's generational.

[sendero]

5. The beginning of the end..

... of this war has come and gone many times. But with this development, it's here for good IMHO.

Helis are absolutely essential to the effort. Once they start routinely being shot down, it's really over.

[KG]

6. once the SAMs come out, it's all over. stingers turned the tide in afghanistan.

[mmonk]

7. Iraq is to the U.S. what Afganistan was to the Soviet Union.

Time will tell if we suffer from the same symptoms enough to withdraw (and eventually reorder America to survive economically) or suffer even greater through a period of continuous violence and then collapse (in IMO).

[ContraBass Black]

8. Shades of Vietnam.

Remember when the Viet Cong started putting mines in trees?