Kabuki theater and the blue dogs

[nadinbrzezinski]

We have been played for fools

yes folks you read right, we have been played for fools...

So we have progressives who do the right thing... but they don't have the power.

And you know what? As far as the corporatist party, they will never have the power

The blue dogs are the ones behind giving a 25% aproval rating excuse of a dictator even more
dictatorial powers.

'Splain that one to me.

25% aproval, and the people are sick and tired of these abuses, but they pass this bill.

Yep, they tell us six months. They count on YOU not paying atteniton in six months

And you think all these levers of power are being put in place to be left to democrats? I mean small D democrats, not the corporatists in the DLC, who just assisted in the shreding of whatever remained of the US Constitution

Well as far as I am concered the leadership gets no bloody red cent from me. They don't get any volunter work... and perhaps they don't even get a vote.

I am sick and tired of their excuses.

And I am sick and tired of their bending over and kissing their ass good bye

Yes, there are possible explanations to this.

1.- The Bushies have the goods on them... and if they stray the scandals of insert rep here doing amoral thing here will explode all over, preferably somebody in the leadership. If this is the case, they are cowards. There are ways to deal with this and defuse this

2.- They are afraid of being blamed after the next attack... guess what? You will be blamed. That play is going to happen no matter what you do to apease the enemy

3.- They believe that what they are doing will win them the white house. Yeah right, tell me exactly why I should vote for cowards? And I have heard this from plenty of people who are now becoming independents...Oh I did this a while ago...

4.- We are keeping our powder dry... for what?

5.- We don't have the votes, my dying ass... they have the power but only if they CHOSE to exercise it.

6.- Or Ralph Nader and Noam Chomsky have been right all along, at least as far as the leadership of the party is concerned. Given they have the power we are screwed.

I know number six is not something very popular round these parts, but given the evidence... well Occam's razor applies... and that is a conclusion we must all consider.

After that, what do we do? Ok, ok I can hear it, but you don't understand how politics works... sure I do... and I hate to tell you this folks... the House and the Senate are a joke, and have surrendered a lot of their power. Now, we cannot say it is because the Republicans are in charge and we have no real power as a minority ('xcuse me while I return my dinner over that lame excuse). they have the power, and they have chosen to surrender, to a 25% something aproval rating quasi dictator, who even told us...

"It would be so much easier if this was a dictartorship as long as I was the dictator."

So what to do now? Accept the new corporatist state and live the best we can, as the final curtains on this Republic have come down? Or plan to do what the American people have not done since 1776? I hold no hope that rebelion is in the future... I hold no hope that the country will remain much beyond a simulacrum of what it once was.

As they say the final curtain has come down... and the long night has begun.

And what is more, we, our generation has failed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. kick

[liberaldemocrat7]

16. You can call these the Boll Weevil Democrats.

During the 70s and 80s we had Boll Weevil Democrats in our party. These conservative people never switched to the Republican party until pushed by Democrats who stood up for civil rights and for peace.

We have a new group of boll weevil Democrats who undermine our party. We should find them and ell them that they do not serve the interest of our party.

[tomreedtoon]

2. Yes, "we" have failed...but who are "we?"

I can think of a lot of people to blame for this failure.

Teachers and the educational/intellectual establishment, for instance. They pursued their own agendas - dominating children and getting famous by publishing books for each other to read - instead of doing the job they were supposed to do, teach ordinary people to enjoy learning, to understand history, and to appreciate people different than themselves.

So-called liberal politicians who never worked a non-union job, or worked on a farm, or walked among poor people, who had no reason to be "liberal" except it was a brand-name different from "conservative."

News people who thought being close to the seat of power was more important than shaking the occupant of that seat around and making him do his job.

Cowardly politicians afraid to get angry when evil was done, who just smiled and donned their flannel jackets and pretended to go hunting, instead of firing on their opponent's hypocracy with both barrels.

I've got other things to do, so let's just leave the list there for now.

[AndyTiedye]

3. #1 and #2 Would Be Quite Enough

What do you think they are doing that they can't tell FISA about?


#2 trumps everything. Since Bush** still controls all of the networks, we know they will use the next attack to destroy the Democrats in the media. We know the media will do it too.
We also know that ALL of the Repiglican candidates are banking totally on another attack before Election Day.

#3 doesn't apply. They have effectively conceded next years elections.
#4 doesn't either. There isn't any powder.
#5 We really don't have the votes. See #1 and #2.
#6 Even if the only difference is whether or not we get a theocracy as part of the package, that is a very big difference, despite what the Populists may say.

[PoiBoy]

4. "They cop to cowardice to cover up complicity..."

kpete's post here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


article here:
http://www.chris-floyd.com/Articles/Articles/Danse_Maca... /

two of my favorite quotes from the post:

<snip>
They cop to cowardice to cover up complicity.
<end>

and

<snip>
But the fact that one mafia boss gives groceries to Grandma while another one steals her blind and leaves her out on the street doesn't change the fact that both bosses are part of the same criminal system, operating on the same principles of violence, extortion, arbitrary rule and lawlessness.
<end>

Hammer meets the head of the nail.... thanks to kpete for the OP

[BeHereNow]

6. One of your links doesn't work anymore

Guess which one...
BHN

[tbyg52]

15. It's still there

I think--isn't this it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1525073&mesg_id=1525073

[BeHereNow]

24. Thanks- it wouldn't open for me yesterday. n/t

bhn

[BeHereNow]

5. Amen... with a kick and recommend.

Careful about speaking the truth though.
Seems to be an epidemic of disappearing and locked threads lately
when such matters are brought to light.
BHN

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Yeah I have noticed

but in a society that is no longer free, freedom of speech ain't apreciated that much

In fact, it can be damn dangerous and scary

[BeHereNow]

8. See my reply to Poiboy- #6

Imagine that.
3,2,1 till no more KPete?

BHN

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I know

but I am not surprised

[IndianaGreen]

10. K&R n/t

RIP the Republic

[radfringe]

11. not blue dogs

blue gelded jellyfish - no balls no backbone

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Well I have called them spineless jellyfish

:-)

[sanskritwarrior]

12. Or they are

representing their districts..........You know there are Democrats that supported this FISA vote and we contact our representatives just like the progressives do....... I truly love the disconnect where none of the progressives can admit that there are conservative dems that like the new FISA rules

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Sorry if I prefer to stand by that

quant document


By the way there are also CONSERVATIVES who also like that quaint document

[sanskritwarrior]

27. LOL nice

are you always this unsubtle when trying to demonize someone that dared to DISAGREE with you? I respect the Constitution immensely, I have taken an oath to protect and defend it 4 times now, so far there is no evidence my support of the new program violates that oath in anyway other than in your own mind......

You can post all the rubbish you want, but as of today what was done on FISA is legal for the next 6 months and hopefully for years to come........

[Solon]

23. I have a question for you...

What is it about this FISA bill that is so good for the nation that you support it?

[sanskritwarrior]

26. Because it erases the need to get warrants......

for me that alone is good enough.......In the military we don't get warrants to monitor potential enemies, or potential military personnel we feel might be dealing with foreign nationals in a way that violates OPSEC....... stripping away the cumbersome need to go and get warrants in a time sensitive environment is a win for the United States of America and the Democratic party......

And please if you are going to accuse me of being a freeper, have some evidence other than this post, because by my informal unscientifce count about 20-25% of DUers like this new reality.......

[Perry Logan]

13. Calm down. Brush up on how legislatures work.

"1. Despite the amount of false propaganda spread by the Republican Party, our
nation does in fact have dangerous enemies. The terrorist threat is very real,
though it is also very different from the way the Republicans, and in particular
the administration of George W. Bush, have described it.
2. FISA has needed an overhaul for many years now. Be thankful that it will be
Democrats that will rewrite this bill instead of the Republicans. If Republicans
rewrote this bill most Americans would end up being implanted with microchips
to monitor their private thoughts.
3. FISA is broken and the George W. Bush broke it. Because Bush and his
cronies pushed the exisiting law too far, they ended up losing a court case and
severely damaged our ability to obtain intelligence. This was the result of
sloppiness and a total disregard for the rule of law on the part of the
Republicans.
4. It will take time to rewrite FISA, and in the meantime we needed some kind
of temporary legislation to buy time for Congress to work on a new version of
FISA. The bills Jim Webb voted for provide for this temporary bridge.
5. We may need another temporary extension of FISA, lasting until the end of
the Bush administration. When this law is rewritten it needs to be rewritten by
Democratic-dominated Congress and signed off on by a Democratic President.
Any rewrite of this law under the current administration would bear the unholy
fingerprints of Bush, Cheney and Gonzales--and in consequence would be
deeply flawed from its outset."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/5/124531/4040

[leftchick]

17. that is ridiculous logic

reality....

http://www.slate.com/id/2171747/pagenum/2/


<snip>

To secure access to the telecommunications switches inside the United States, which the NSA had simply asked for in the past, the new law obliges phone and Internet companies to create back doors for eavesdroppers; if they don't comply, they can be held in contempt. And best of all, there's no longer an audit of abuses by the DoJ's inspector general. Instead, Congress will receive an update on that twice a year from none other than the attorney general—the very individual who, even as this legislation was being prepared, was exposed as having denied, under oath, the existence of surveillance abuses by the FBI. So, in one fell swoop, the bill dramatically augmented the domestic surveillance capabilities of the federal government and hobbled the few mechanisms that might have kept that new authority from being abused. It gives with one hand, and then gives with the other.

<snip>

A year ago, we might have chalked this up to the kind of groupthink travesty that unfolds when the same party controls the White House and both houses of Congress. But the saddest thing about this whole affair was the haste with which congressional Democrats—some seeking re-election next year in conservative districts—folded up their objections and went on vacation. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., complained that Democrats were "stampeded by fearmongering and deception." What's extraordinary is not so much how craven the Republican rhetoric was, but that even now, after seven months of the obvious mandate conferred by their congressional majority, Democrats are still so easily cowed. However alarmist the talking points, congressional Democrats have "a Pavlovian reaction," Caroline Fredrickson of the ACLU observed. "Whenever the president says the word terrorism, they roll over and play dead."

Proponents of the Republican bill might have had a leg to stand on if the Democrats had opposed "modernization" of the old FISA law. But they didn't: They simply opposed modernization without accountability. It was the president and Republican lawmakers who held out for the latter, running the risk that the changes would not be written into law before the August recess. Yet Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., got away with lines like, "Al-Qaida is not going on vacation this month." Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, another supporter of the bill, came up with this canard: "We're at war. The enemy wants to attack us. This is not the time to strive for legislative perfection." Huh? The bill passed the House 227-168 and the Senate 60-28.

The only concession in the new law is the promise that its provisions will sunset in six months, giving Congress an opportunity to work on something even Lieberman might deem "legislative perfection." In an effort to save face, many Democrats are vowing to fight another day. But if you look closely at the final subsection in the law, it indicates that while the legislation itself will sunset in six months, any programs authorized under the legislation may continue.

[formercia]

14. Remember one thing

If some of us hadn't begun screaming loudly years ago and finally attracted the attention of the majority, we wouldn't even be discussing this. It would be all over but the crying and gnashing of teeth.

I'm glad people are finally beginning to realize that it's not about Party affiliation, it's about Ideology.

[leftchick]

18. The Boot is Descending

http://harpers.org/archive/2007/08/hbc-90000742

<snip>

Don’t expect any investigations or prosecutions to emerge in these cases. A police state uses its secrecy laws as a tool for the persecution or repression of political adversaries, not as a means of preserving secrets or implementing serious policy surrounding national security, and that is exactly what is going on here. I don’t know who leaked the first word of the rise of the National Surveillance State to the New York Times and Washington Post. Whoever did it was most likely shocked at the brazen criminality of what was going on and hoped that by exposing it, an end would be put to it. Which is to say, the leaker’s motives were principled, patriotic, led by concern for the rule of law and about the proliferation of criminal dealings within the Government. Those are not criminal motives, and his or her act was not the act of a criminal, but rather a heroic act of quiet desperation.

The fact that even after these disclosures, the National Surveillance State has continued to feed and grow is alarming evidence of the decay of basic institutions. Today, our civil liberties state is withering away and the National Surveillance State surges without control. Retrenchment will be impossible. Resistance is essential, especially by those within.

There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always— do not forget this, Winston— always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.

The boot is descending.

[bigtree]

19. on this last vote, they were enabled by incompetence from the leadership

The bunch that we have now don't seem to have a clue about how to work the rules and procedures to our party's benefit. They gave the last one away by allowing the republican bills to advance. Preventing that should have been relatively easy.

[Pachamama]

20. You summarized it well....

I am feeling all these things and more....

Right now I'm not even sure how to feel, but I am trying to stay calm and think about what is to come and how I will react....

[Javaman]

25. There was never any "powder" to keep dry in the first place. nt