I support Rep. Hinchey (D-NY)

[H2O Man]

This is from a release from the office of US Representative Maurice Hinchey, from New York. I'm sure most DUers are aware of the position that he and US Senator Russ Feingold (WI) are taking. It's not the step towards impeachment that I am hoping for. But it is a half-step that points the congress in the right direction.

Many of my friends on DU view this action on Hinchey and Feingold's part as too little. I appreciate why people believe this. My goal isn't to get anyone who is pro-impeachment to change their opinion. But I will ask for people to at least watch what direction these two men (and their staffs) are hoping to move this discussion in.

If I thought for a minute that they were putting on a show, and really had no intentions of taking this to another level, I would not ask my pro-impeachment friends to give it any serious consideration.

Here is part of the release:


“From misleading this country into invading Iraq to establishing a warrantless domestic spy program, this White House has continuously misled and deceived the American people while disregarding the rule of law that guides our democracy,” Hinchey said. “The Bush administration has placed an extraordinary burden on this and future generations to recover from the damage done to our Constitution and national security. While it will take time to get our country back on the right track, we in Congress can act now by passing these censure resolutions to hold the White House accountable and to let the historical record show that an equal branch of government found the actions of this administration undeniably reprehensible. I am honored to be working with Senator Feingold on these censure resolutions and look forward to gathering support in order to pass them in both chambers.”

The censure resolutions regarding Iraq, S.Res.302 and H.Res.625, condemn the president and vice president for:

• Misleading the nation about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s regime and about Saddam’s links to al Qaeda and 9/11
• Inadequate planning for military action in Iraq
• Overstraining the military and undermining homeland security
• Misleading the nation about the strength of the insurgency

The censure resolutions regarding the rule of law, S.Res.303 and H.Res.626, condemn the president and attorney general for:

• Authorizing the illegal NSA warrantless wiretapping program
• Pursuing extreme policies concerning torture and the treatment of detainees
• Detaining enemy combatants indefinitely without charges, access to a lawyer, or habeas rights
• Unilaterally authorizing flawed military commissions that were subsequently struck down by the Supreme Court
• Misleading Congress and the public about, and obstructing investigations into, the firings of U.S. Attorneys
• Making misleading statements regarding civil liberties abuses under the Patriot Act
• Undermining acts of Congress with signing statements based on extreme theories of executive power


http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny22_hinchey/morenews/080607CensureIntroduction.html

[brentspeak]

1. k an r

:kick:

[malta blue]

2. Thanks H2O Man. K&R

:kick:

[Me.]

3. While Not Giving Up My Advocacy For Impeachment

I am willing to listen (read) and discuss. The worst I can say about this is that in the land of nothing, it is something.

[H2O Man]

10. I know that

many intelligent, on-target progressive democrats -- people on DU that I have great respect for -- do not view this move as serious enough. And I do appreciate that .... it looks like a small door .... but as my friend Rubin was fond of saying, those who bemoan a lack of opportunity often fail to recognize that small doors can open into big rooms. This door is an opportunity.

[Me.]

13. And That Is Why This Should Be Discussed

The small door=big room is a good point

[Cha]

4. I'll be watching! Sounds

real good to me. A big dose of REALITY..bugaboos for the lockstep bushit brigrade. :scared: :scared:

[H2O Man]

14. These two men

and their staffs have done their homework. They understand what is at stake. They are not showing all their cards right now, of course, and that is one cause of the dissatisfaction that many have expressed. I understand that -- and I also know that Feingold and Hinchey are serious about doing the right thing.

[KoKo]

5. Thanks H20 man.......K&R!

I hope that your faith is what it will turn out to be.

And, it's important that you do this...understanding that I'm looking now at the "other head"..and it flamed us. (some of us).

K&R!

[H2O Man]

16. We are in a

tough fight, facing a vicious, entrenched enemy. The other night, we discussed how many of the best on DU were rightfully upset by the FISA business. And for others, it was confirmation that things are exactly as bad as we have been saying on DU for years.

It's exactly as bad as we've been saying.

I tend to like Senator Feingold, though I am not as familiar with him as I am with Rep. Hinchey. But I have taken some time to become familiar with not on;y the "how?" -- but the "why?" they are taking this route. It is not exactly what I would advocate, but I do support them. I think it has real potential.

[KoKo]

17. yes...

I support it all. I've seen some good things from Hinchley...Louise Slaughter (a hero of mine) has disappointed, somewhat.

I used to live in NYS many years ago...hubby has strong roots there. So I follow what I can from the "home State." I used to think NYS would save us along with Connecticut...where I also lived.

Alas it seems the evildoers took over there as they did in the South of my Birth... Giuliani and that lot...plus Lieberman. My red state didn't seem so Red when I saw what states in the NE had succumbed to since I moved from there.

It's EVERYWHERE...we have to do what we can do. Support whoever will stand up. But, always be wary (it seems to me) when they let us down with false promises.

I don't think Hinchley is this type. Fingers crossed. And even hope that Slaughter will come through sometime again for us.

Peace!

[H2O Man]

18. Hinchey

is called "Cheney's worst enemy" in many circles in Washington, DC.

[Ghost in the Machine]

6. I only wish I could have been the 5th rec, but it's coming...

I'm staunch 'pro impeachment', but I'll take this as a welcomed small step forward in the right direction. I'd love to be able to snatch ALL of them up and stick them in a cell somewhere, but I'm losing hope that it's going to happen.

I always enjoy your posts, and you are one of the strong voices of reason around here. Keep on doing what you do, H2O Man.

PEACE!

[H2O Man]

21. Thank you.

I have taken the position that VP Cheney should be impeached since the infamous "DU Plame Threads" of old. I count myself as being in the progressive wing of the democratic party, and would not take a position supporting this if I was not confident that they are doing it for the right reasons.

I appreciate that you enjoy reading my posts on DU. I try to take into account, especially in the tense times on DU, that I have a responsibility to people like you, to write the things I think are best for the grass roots progressive democrats.

[Lerkfish]

7. *waves* hey, I'm your pro-impeachment friend!

my only concern about the censure is related to people's arguments against impeachment.

Their contention is that impeachment is a futile gesture, accomplishing nothing.

Then why is censure a more productive option?

I agree its a step in the right direction, but baby steps are not going to get us there in time.

So, I"m not putting down censure in and of itself, I just fear time and energy spent on it might just as well have been better spent starting impeachment proceedings.

And in a normal situation of checks and balances, a measured response would be logical...but as we all know, this is not a normal situation.

[Me.]

8. I Wish They Could Put The Betraying Of A Noc

in there, but sadly, I think that would be a distraction and of course proving it would be another matter, whereas the other charges are demonstrable

[H2O Man]

22. They are certainly

aware of that. And I am confident that they have not put all their cards on the table.

[Marnieworld]

37. my thought as well

Other than that a great list.

[AuntPatsy]

9. Kick and recommended ......

[Tatiana]

11. I totally support the censure resolution.

This is very smart on Feingold's/Hinchley's part. This is a way to determine where the votes are for possible impeachment. It also sends a public message to Bush that he's descecrated and demeaned the office he holds. Bush is an arrogant and prideful bully. Shaming him in this way is a great start.

[H2O Man]

23. I can remember

that Malcolm X used to say that if you want people to drink out of a bottle, you should not put a skull and crossbones on it. I believe that Senator Feingold and Representative Hinchey appreciate that concept. And they are being careful in how they package this drink they are preparing for congress.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Another Step In Building The Articles

While my cynicism remains high that this motion will move forward...there's just too many other things going on...I see the purpose of drawing up these resolutions and get them into both the national debate and directed to appropriate committees for action.

I see this more of a measure to test the waters...how deep, how warm...as to how to procede. I'm all but certain that Senator Feingold will not let this regime slip away unaccounted for its crimes, but this will take time and this is one step he can take now...while setting up for bigger and better should Democrats get more House & Senate seats and win the Executive next year.

One thing I noticed at YKos is that the netroots now have a seat at the Democratic party table...and with that seat will come some pull in the future...and all the candidates know which issue is and will remain #1 in the blogosphere...Impeachment. It's a chit we hold and if we work hard, can play it when more netroot Democrats take their seats in 2009.

Sorry...it's not the quick fix many hope, but it is demanding accountability.

[H2O Man]

24. Right.

The pro-impeachment people should continue to advocate our position. But we should recognize that people like Feingold and Hinchey are moving towards the same goal, though from a different position.

[Breeze54]

15. Feingold has been trying BY HIMSELF to get justice and censure since at least March!

Now he has the support of Rep. Hinchey and he's added Cheney and Gonzo!!

He's a fighter and at least he IS trying to do the right thing!!

He just keeps introducing motions to censure! Right on!!

None of the others are even bothering!

As Pelosi stated from the get go, "Impeachment is off the table." :(

Maybe this is the only way Feingold can get the charges heard?

I'm for impeachment but I do applaud that they keep trying to

do something in the right direction!

Remarks of Senator Russ Feingold

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/03/2006313.html

Introducing a Resolution to Censure President George W. Bush

As Prepared

March 13, 2006

Listen to Senator Feingold's Remarks http://feingold.senate.gov/feingold060313.mp3

Mr. President, when the President of the United States breaks the law, he must be held accountable.

That is why today I am introducing a resolution to censure President George W. Bush.

Read the rest of the speech at the link....

[Cha]

19. Feingold is a Fighter!

So glad we have him in the Senate! Wisconsin can be so proud!

[H2O Man]

35. Thank you.

I think it is important that everyone keep this information in mind.

[antigop]

20. I think this is a good move, but I have a question....

I think it's a good move because it puts the crimes out there on the table, even though it's not impeachment.

However, can Congress realistically censure for "Authorizing the illegal NSA warrantless wiretapping program" after the recent FISA vote?

[H2O Man]

25. Good question.

I think that they can, because it was not legal at the time. But it may be that parts of this effort are modified, in order to get it passed.

[Breeze54]

26. Co-Sponsor Senator Feingold's Censure Resolutions - Please sign!

http://ga1.org/campaign/censure07?rk=u1eWNl11Sr7YE">Sign this Petition

[hfojvt]

27. one thing about this

"Inadequate planning for military action in Iraq"

Because I live close to CGSC, we had an officer give a talk at our club meeting, and he bristled at the idea that there was inadequate planning for Iraq. The military, he said, has planned for alot of contingencies. The question is if the planning that was done was inadequate, or if it was followed, or if it was over-ridden by Rummy for political reasons or reasons of arrogance and bossiness (everybody involved with the Bush administration seems to demand subordinates who are 'yes-men' rather than serious advisors.

[H2O Man]

31. Interesting.

There is a chapter in Seymour Hersch's "Chain of Command" that tells about how Rumsfeld ignored "the Pentagon's most sophisticated war-planning document, the TPFDL -- time-phased forces deployment list -- ... a voluminous document describing the inventory of forces that are to be sent into battle, the sequence of their deployment, and the deployment of logistical support." (pages 249-253)

When an administration resorts to lying to the congress and the public about its reasons for going to war, and when it has to forcefully manipulate intelligence to make its case (and punish those who disagree), and when that administration ignores the careful planning of the military (because the goal was always to occupy Iraq to access oil and to provide a base outside of Saudi Arabia), the only outcome could be what Thomas Ricks describes in "Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq."

The administration should be held responsible.

[salin]

32. the periodic purging of top officers by Rummy, suggest the "overridden

by Rummy" explanation.

[H2O Man]

34. Exactly. n/t

[tomg]

28. Thanks, H2O Man. Hinchey is my

rep and he is a stand-up guy. I was hoping he would come out for impeachment now, and like a lot of DU'ers, my first reaction was "WTF," but both Feingold and Hinchey are two of the best. Hinchey, like Feingold, has been in the fight since the beginning, and I am going to trust him on this. Frankly, I think he has something going on this.

[H2O Man]

33. Right.

There are very few politicians that I would ever consider giving the benefit of the doubt, in any situation. As a few other threads on DU:GD make clear, we should always hold tight to the Constitution, and use that Bill of Rights as our guide. And that demands that we always question the elected representatives, be they in town/city, county, state, or federal offices. We owe it to ourselves, our family, and our community to never abandon the questioning spirit that is a part of our Constitutional democracy.

Thus, even with as high of an opinion as I have of Rep. Hinchey, I have spoken at length to someone very close to him. I had very serious questions. And although I still advocate impeaching VP Dick Cheney today, I am satisfied with what I heard that the progressive democrats have a good chance of having our cause advanced by the Feingold & Hinchey effort.

[Me.]

38. Horse's Mouth

Good

[H2O Man]

39. On those times

when I wear my hair in a pony tail, I am compared to another part of a horse.

[stop the bleeding]

29. Sometimes a few flakes of melted snow end up as a raging river

but it has got to start from something.

[Me.]

30. . n/t

[Breeze54]

40. What a great line! I like it!

"Sometimes a few flakes of melted snow end up as a raging river but it has got to start from something."
- by stop the bleeding

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[ms liberty]

36. K&R:I agree. And too little is better than nothing at all. Too little can grow bigger with time. n/t

[FourScore]

41. I'm proud to say he is my representative.

If it's good enough for Maurice Hinchey and Russ Feingold, then it's good enough for me. These two men have always shown the utmost wisdom and character in their decision-making. I, too, wish with all my heart for the impeachment of the entire Bush/Cheney cabal. Still, one MUST, even if one disagrees, understand that the votes are not there (YET!!!). Perhaps this censure resolution will open enough discussion to bring more people on the side of impeachment. If not, let's face it, it's better than nothing!

I will continue to vote for Rep. Hinchey. He's a hero and a statesman in my eyes.

[H2O Man]

42. I think that

he is going to become better known on the national level, and soon.