FISA Bill has a six month sunset, folks...

[cynatnite]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1523581

I realized this needed it's own thread. My apologies for another one, but I think this is important. We've got six months to get our shit together and kill this thing. Bush'll have his way for the next six months, but we can still kill it. Time to get on the phones, write LTTEs, and send the message to the Dems that this thing needs to be shot down when the six month provision is up.

[Hydra]

1. nice thought

but as I posted yesterday on Pelosi's apology letter, * will either sign the restriction away, or he'll pull the same act again, tell the dems what he wants, and then he'll have Gonzo blandly say that there have been no abuses in the last 6 months.

The dems should have given * the middle finger and not introduced the bill. That was either complete incompetence or complicity...neither of which reassures me.

[Spiffarino]

2. .

[Bumblebee]

11. Unfortunately it's the latter, which is even more depressing since this

cannot be "unlearned."

[AndyTiedye]

26. Incompetence, Complicity, or BUSH** MADE THEM AN OFFER THEY COULDN'T REFUSE!

[sueh]

3. I don't see Bush giving up any of his ill-gotten powers.

[Nutmegger]

4. You're optimistic.

I really expect this to be permanent now. I thought the Patriot Act would be gonzo too after the sunset period, but it was again made into law.

If Bush Inc doesn't get their fancy powers, they'll start with the "terra" talk. :(

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. national security legislation never goes away

forget it...it's done.

[flying_monkeys]

6. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't

a lot of this already in effect?


I mean, this was a renewal (and, as I recall, from something like a decade or so ago)....


Educate me, please? WHY should I be all upset here?


(Thank you, and cyber flowers and chocolates your way)

[Hydra]

10. Nope.

FISA just got gutted. There are lots of threads with the details, but since there are so many, let me tell you the important stuff:

Bush's domestic wiretapping is now legal

FISA court does not review it anymore- Gonzo and The Director of National Intelligence get to say who gets tapped, and they are the ones in charge of logging that info. Don't expect any accurate reports.

There is a provision about needing a renewal in 6 months, but I haven't heard what signing statements were attached to this yet- I suspect he put one in about "Congress does not have to power to constrain the Commander in Chief during wartime to time limits on his authority"

All in all, plenty to be upset about. Oh, and the whistleblower that reported this got nailed, also. Don't expect anyone else to do the same now- Congress has made clear that they will make the illegal legal for King George.

[sandnsea]

20. Constitution shredded

I try to look at things from all angles, stay reasonable, look at law over personalities - the Constitution really did get trashed. No two ways about it. There's nothing I've read that has given me any other possible conclusion, and I completely understand Louise Slaughter's statement about Congress being in a vice.

The problem is nobody pays attention until AFTER this stuff is passed - and theeen everybody says hey, what's going on in DC... and our Dems just can't seem to figure out that this will bite them in the butt in the end.

[Hydra]

23. Actually

The Constitution was shredded last year. Remember the Military Commissions Act of 2006? That's still in play, as nobody got around to trashing it.

[sandnsea]

24. Reshredded - re-re-re-re-shredded

However many times they've dumped on the Constitution in the last few years, in all sorts of areas. Yes, you're right, this is not the first time they've shredded the Constitution.

[Hydra]

25. You were right to point it out

I think this is the death knell. Yes the constitution was torched before, but that was a partisan effort. As such, * was hesitant to use the full power within. I doubt he feels that way about this. This will have been authorized by the "Democratically controlled congress"(even though that is surely not the case).

That's it. Everything we say, everything we do is now under constant scrutiny. Get used to Agent Mike watching you at all times.

Hi Agent Mike and expanded surveillance teams! :hi:

[msongs]

7. Never have seen a cavein announced 6 months in advance before

let's hope the dems in congress will learn something while they are on vacation like the congress in Iraq, while US military and Iraqi civilians are dying every day in Iraq.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[cynatnite]

8. Considering how low their approval ratings are...

I'm of the opinion they might fight bush harder when it comes time for renewal.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. Fight harder? Ha! They didn't have to fight at all. They didn't have to give him this bill in

the first place. FISA was fine! They Legitimized his Illegal behavior.

I think if the majority of the people find out about this, Congress' approval will be sub-basement.

And oh, "it sunsets in 6 months! How many people's rights will be violated in those 6 months????

[Bumblebee]

9. and of course GOP will roll over and let us do it. Dream on.

[Hydra]

13. word

Thank you for your input further up!

[cynatnite]

12. I must admit I'm a little startled...

Is this the same DU forum that was demanding impeachment and outraged? Six month renewel is far better than permanent, I'd say.

[orleans]

14. have you not read the posts on your thread? seems to me people

feel this will never get taken away.

[shanti]

19. probably going by what has happened in the past

patriot act, anyone?

[cynatnite]

21. Upon further reading...there is a lot more to this than I realized...

The six month sunset is one of the few concessions the dems got so they have the opportunity to revise and ramp up the pressure. I do hope that the Dems come back ready to fight to take this down.

It was bush who brought up these changes in FISA in his radio address last weekend, I believe. The Dems got a bill together and negotations were going along fine when Thursday night bush's version was submitted by a repuke on an intelligence committee. That was when negotiations stopped. The WH and the repukes went on a media campaign to ratchet up the pressure on this by waving the flag and yelling terra, terra, terra. CNN did a report showing the repukes all standing together ranting about protecting the homeland and all that. It was quite disgusting.

Also, it wasn't by chance that the Dems were going into recess. IMO, bush and the repukes set it up like this so bush could have his pocket veto.

"The one exception to this rule is if Congress adjourns before the ten days have passed and the President has not yet signed the bill. In such a case, the bill does not become law; it is effectively, if not actually, vetoed. If the President does sign the bill, the bill becomes law. Ignoring legislation, or "putting a bill in one's pocket" until Congress adjourns is thus called a pocket veto. Since Congress cannot vote while in adjournment, a pocket veto cannot be overridden."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_veto

I read this which helped understanding what happened and why it happened:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/fisa-fight-could-drag-into-next-week-2007-08-03.html

There is no getting around the fact that the Dems caved on this. They backed down from the predictable use of fear that bush and the repukes are so famous for. The way bush and the repukes went about it smacks of dirty politics and we all know where that filth came from. Karl Rove.

IMO, the six month concession is all we've got to kill this law.

[PSPS]

16. The "six months" thing is just window dressing. This will be permanent.

Six months from now is Feb 08 -- the general election campaigning is going in ernest. The weasel democrats will cringe and cower in their corner, lest they have the RW media declare them enemies of the state. bush will likely be given even broader powers in any renewal (assuming he even accepts the sunset provision in the first place.)

The country's gone, folks. The only thing left is the realization of such by the few remaining optimists.

[Skidmore]

27. You can do a lot of damage in six months, and given the

administration's record with truthfulness when oversight occurs, I'd say we have reason to be very concerned. Someone pointed out that Gonzo is now the sheriff, judge, jury, and prosecutor all rolled in to a neat little package and tied with a bow.

I find it difficult to understand why so many Dems would vote to hand this type of power over to them.

[TahitiNut]

15. The AG authorization under this act is for a year.

So, the surveillance that's authorized can "legally" continue until Smirk & Sneer have left.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[TahitiNut]

18. How would folks feel about "a six month sunset" on a law that prohibited abortion?

And how's that habeas corpus thing doing?

[Oldenuff]

22. six month provision

then what...another cave.What do you want to bet?

Seems like the Rethugs and Dems are taking turns stuffing it up our backsides.Those who voted for this ought to be drawn and quartered.

[radfringe]

28. the problem with a 6-month sunset

is the next day we have another 6-month sunrise with the same excuses and promises of another 6-month sunset