Should the U.S. allow a prisoner release to get these Korean missionaries returned?

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.khaleejtimes.ae/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2007/August/subcontinent_August157.xml§ion=subcontinent

Taleban wants neutral venue for hostage talks
(AFP)

4 August 2007


<snip>The South Korean aid workers, most of whom are female, are said to be ill after being held for more than two weeks in sweltering southern Afghanistan.

Two are said to be in a serious condition, but the hardliners on Friday refused to allow an Afghan medical team access to them.

The dragging crisis was set to overshadow talks beginning on Sunday in the United States between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and his US counterpart George W. Bush.

South Korea is pressing the US to intervene in the crisis and has sent eight senior legislators to Washington to rally international support for its efforts to save the Christian aid workers. Two of the group have already been killed. snip

The Afghan government has refused to release Taleban fighters, saying it could encouraging kidnappings.

The United States criticised the government over a prisoner exchange in March that has been blamed for a recent rash of abductions, some said to have been carried out by criminals.

[MADem]

1. It would be a substantial departure from historical US policy. I don't think it would work.

It might do for now, but the next time--and their would be a next time--the stakes would go up. I do think the "Give them an inch, they'll take a mile" maxim applies here.

[NNN0LHI]

4. historical US policy?

Didn't the U.S. in Iraq just swap some Iranian diplomats who our government had been describing as terrorists in exchange for some British sailors and soldiers the Iranians were holding earlier this year?

I know it wasn't called a prisoner exchange by our government or media but any conscious person could see that is exactly what was done.

Don

[MADem]

6. That's not how the US played it. They played it as questioned and released.

And you said the key word--DIPLOMATS.

There's a big difference between that and out-and-out prisoners. The decision to accept the credentials of the diplomats and release them in accordance with international conventions quite conveniently coincided with other activities--but there was no flat-out trade that happened. There's a difference between one event following another, conveniently, and the declaration of a quid pro quo. Finally, there's a huge difference between negotiating with a sovereign nation-state entity (Iran) to achieve a mutally agreed-upon outcome, and negotiating with a bunch of Religious Bullies who have no seat at the UN and who are in the business of hostage-taking to achieve their stated aims.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Regardless how the US played it anyone who does their thinking above the waist knows the truth

We traded hostages. Its done all the time.

Don

[MADem]

24. Well, you can say that. The State Departments, from Carter on, would

find fault with your assessment.

It's not done "all the time." Ask Widow Robin Higgins.

[Richard Steele]

2. No. nm

[youngdem]

3. NO. Absolutely NO. You cannot negotiate with hostage takers. BAD PRECEDENT.

All it does is encourage more kidnappings.

Just ask countries that negotiate with kidnappers.

As terrible as it is, these people knew (or damn well should have) the risks of going to Afghanistan, especially if you were a bus load of Christians.

[WinkyDink]

18. Balderdash, and easy to say. Even the Israelis, for whom this is state policy, have relented at

times.

[Spinzonner]

5. Do a prisoner exchange

return the Taleban fighters at a separate remote location after they have been castrated.

[alphafemale]

7. Absolutely not. You don't ever give a hostage taker what they want.

Talk about encouraging more hostage taking.

It's like giving a 2 yr old throwing a tantrum what they want.

May it momentarily shut them up?
Maybe.

Have you shown the kid that tantrums work?
Yep.

Are future tantrums guaranteed?
Yep.

[pinniped]

8. It seems the only options are:

- meet the demands of the kidnappers

or

- launch a rescue operation and hope everyone doesn't get killed

The kidnappers have already demonstrated they mean business. It is also apparent the Afghan .gov doesn't give a shit. If members of the puppet .gov were taken, a deal would've been reached by now. Their inaction has already contributed to the death of the second South Korean.

Meeting their demands may encourage future kidnappings, but this is what happens when the US fucks up countries and turns them into war zones.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[High Plains]

15. "Break the back of Islam"?

You might want to tighten the focus on your rage. You went from "sharia snorting islamists" to Islam in one sentence. How broad is your paint brush?

[Solo_in_MD]

17. My direct experience with islam more than justifies my derision of it

see my journal: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Solo_in_MD/1

[Wilber_Stool]

10. What were these bible thumpers doing

in Afghanistan in the first place? They got themselves into this and they can get themselves out.

[Solo_in_MD]

11. Same could be said of Rachel Corrie...do you really want to blame the victims here?

The sharia and islamic maddness of the Taliban is the root cause here...

[Wilber_Stool]

19. Rachel Corrie?

Another senseless death that accomplished nothing. At least her goal was to stop the war. These people are merely trying to bring Christ to the Muslims. Hardly the same thing.

[Solo_in_MD]

20. I invoked her memory of an example of the blame the victim mentality being shown in this case

Neither Rachel Corrie or the Koreans are responsible for the violence perpetrated against them.

[Wilber_Stool]

23. But they are resposable for being there.

If you don't want to be killed, stay out of a war zone. It's just that easy.

[Solo_in_MD]

26. That applies to Corrie as well as the Koreans...it also diminishes the responsibility of those who

killed them. Is that a reasonable position to take in your opinion? How different is that from blaming the rape victim because whe was in a bad part of town or was wearing a short skirt?

Yes I am using reducto absurdum...but its a legitimate approach

[Wilber_Stool]

30. If I were walking in the bad part of town

and I got beaten and robbed, what would you say to me? Would it be my fault? I bet I would get little sympathy. That's why I don't do it. Now, if a woman gets raped under the same circumstances, it might not be her fault but she is at least complicit.
It seems so simple. If you want to minimize your chances of being hurt, stay out of dangerous places.

[tammywammy]

13. No n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. "Sacrifice few to save many?" Sounds good...unless you're the "few".

Letting them die to "send a message" to the Taliban reeks of stupidity and inhumanity. The Taliban isn't about to stop taking hostages or being brutal because the bigshots are willing to sacrifice a bunch of Korean women. Any more than our holding hostages in Guantanamo has stopped them.

[High Plains]

16. Ooh, I'm impressed with all the keyboard tough guys here.

It's easy to be "tough" when it's not somebody you care about who is going to be killed because of your "toughness." What if was your relative? Would you sacrifice her for your macho reasons of state?

[MrSlayer]

21. No. You can't give in to these guys.

Give them an inch and they'll take the proverbial mile.

[Subdivisions]

22. Sorry. No. If you go into a known hornets nest, you accept

the danger. I feel really sad for those people but negotiating with their captors will just make things far worse.

[Disturbed]

25. Is killing innocent women in accordance with the Koran?

There is a way to spare these hostages. It can be accomplished in ways that have not been explored in the posts here. It has been done before but not publicly. It takes creative thinking.

[Solo_in_MD]

28. I am sure they have a fatwa from their local mullah or imam, its the way islam works

Death to the dhimmi women for not wearing burquas?

[Solo_in_MD]

27. Do you feel the same way about Rachel Corrie, and the reporters killed in combat

they also fall under your logic

[bemildred]

29. Yes. If you can save innocent people, you do. nt