"Cries for help in the wreckage - The decision was made to leave them."

[mzmolly]

http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_6526391?nclick_check=1">Pioneer Press: 8/02/07
Cries for help in the wreckage; investigators describe difficulties of rescue efforts
People pinned and dying in the wreckage of the Interstate 35W bridge Wednesday night asked rescue workers to say their goodbyes to their families, Minneapolis Police Chief Tim Dolan said.

More details are emerging about the frantic minutes and hours after the collapse of the bridge that spanned the Mississippi River and the harrowing choices rescue workers had to make.

"There's people pinned, severely injured. We couldn't move them. It was an obviously dangerous situation with stuff still falling." Dolan said. "The decision was made to leave them."

"People who were pinned or partly crushed told emergency workers to say 'hello' or say 'goodbye' to their loved ones," he said.

:cry:

[Solly Mack]

1. :(

choked up

[Pirate Smile]

2. They gave some cell phones to call their loved ones before they died.

Reported on CNN by the Sheriff Richard Stanek.

[bluedog]

5. OMG how terrible....Its so sad...n/t

[mzmolly]

6. I simply can't imagine.

It's horrible.

[rodeodance]

56. its difficult to even read this.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. Oh my God. This administration has so many crimes to pay for. nt

[napi21]

8. Yes they do, but this isn't one of them. As horrible as it was, think for a

few minutes. It would have been foolish for rescuers to die attemting to rescue the victims, only to have them all perish. Unfortunately, sometimes there's just nothing that can be done.

[saracat]

10. This IS the fault of the GOP who vetoed the trasportation Bill. (Minn)

This is Bush thinking.No taxes and people die!

[napi21]

13. I agree with the "taxes are bad" attitude, but we really can't put all

the blame on Shrub. YES he continued this falacy, but this idea began with Reagan! It's really a total Pub problem more than a Shrub one.

[mzmolly]

15. Definately illustrates how policy effects people.

sigh

[defendandprotect]

26. Progressive income taxes are a part of economic democracy w/o which there is no democracy -- !!!

Why fear "taxes" -- what you have to fear is our current situation where the tax load has been redistributed onto the shoulders of the middle class and poor with the RICH excusing themselves . . .
and that includes huge increases in FICA by Greenspan in order to create more SS suprlus for GOP borrowing -- !!!!

[mentalsolstice]

35. Can't blame Bu$h, but his response was crappy! n/t

[april]

52. yes we can blame Bush he denied funding for all of our bridges you could be next..this is SO sad

[peacetalksforall]

21. Nothing should be said here that refutes an absolute of these

madmen who are trying to flip our country - they don't want federal to be responsible for anything - they want the people to take care of themselves and pay for each other. They want all the tax money to advance their control and greed agendas - not for disasters - not for WTC towers - not for bridges falling. They want the States to take care of it - no federal money. Reduced federal assistance of any kind. However, if they can get something privatized they will move mountains to get their friends in - so watch their recommendations on this bridge - and NEVER FORGET - the George and Dick administration promised New York plenty and they are still waiting - they promised New Orleans plenty and we know tha status there - Haley Barbour and Trent Lott got the money.

Watch them on this one - we will learn and prove.

Let's see what comes of this - if anything, it will be to get Pawlenty, their chosen future love-child, out of trouble for his vetos and disregard.

I hope Ellison and the others are successful with the follow through.

Watch carefully and learn. I hope I'm wrong.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

42. THIS SAYS IT ALL......................

Haley Barbour and Trent Lott got the money.

[Bluebear]

25. The rescuers would have nothing to RESCUE if Bush hadn't cut highway funding!

You're damn right you can blame this on him.

[defendandprotect]

27. Agree with you both --

[The Backlash Cometh]

49. George Bush doesn't give a fuck about public infra-structure, and

he doesn't care about us. And now the congress has given him the power to take us all down, one by one. Peachy.

[musette_sf]

4. i wish the rescue workers had made a recording

to play to puke murderer-by-"tax relief" Pawlenty on a continuous loop, until the day he is (a) voted out of office or (b) caught in another typical puke scandal and resigns. :mad:

[iamjoy]

11. It's Not Pawlenty's Fault

come on, now. That bridge was declared structurally deficient 10 years ago! It was a decade ago that the decision was made to not repair a defective bridge. Pawlenty's only been in office five years.

And who was governor 10 years ago? Jesse Ventura. Ventura is a fiscal conservative. Minnesota was running a budget surplus in the early 1990's and he wanted to give the money back to the people. Sounds great. Anyway, who was governor before Ventura? Republican Arne Carlson.

See, to me, this is typical of "small government" types. A government has a budget surplus. They can either A - give the money back to the people or B - improve infrastructure. Republicans have no problem choosing A. A lot of Democrats really think B but don't have the balls to stand up to the Republicans.

When something like this happens, most Republicans are upset. Most of them are not heartless. But they do not see the connection between their tax cuts and the tragedy. So they will keep cutting taxes, and looking generous instead of funding necessary projects. And each time a tragedy occurs, they will wring their hands and be greatly saddened.

[Berry Cool]

14. Pawlenty and the state legislature thought it was important for Hennepin County taxpayers

to provide two-thirds of the financing for a baseball stadium. Why not push as hard for new taxes for infrastructure repair?

It might not have saved this bridge, but it could have saved others.

This is just unthinkably awful.

[iamjoy]

17. But, That's What I Mean

Even if Pawlenty had made an issue of infrastructure repair, this bridge would not have been fixed in time.

However, this disaster is the fault of a group think more common amongst "small government" types. This group think is to not fund infrastructure, to allow it to remain "stretched" while focusing on more politically popular items - be it tax cuts or sports venues.

[Berry Cool]

22. But at some point you have to think of the future

even if you can't change the past.

[mzmolly]

16. Additional concerns were made more recenlty however. People at Mdot had expressed great concern.

I don't blame any one person, but where DOES the buck stop after an incident like this?

Policy effects people.

[Deja Q]

18. Pawlenty wouldn't be a hero either.

While many would agree with him if he said, in 2005, the bridge needed to be heavily repaired or replaced, many of his constituents would still cry "Tax and spend!!!!!"

In some fairness, he (or ANY other politician) would be screamed at regardless of choice made. One can't please anybody but there are times when things have to be done. I wish any MN governor, Pawlenty included, would have done something except continue to hide it under the rug.

Plus, the problem was going on since 1990 - according to official documents. Never mind the stats from 1967 as to the rated loads for that bridge and how, since then, the amount of traffic and weight thereof has quadrupled. It had to be replaced. (a coworker friend told me this morning and, wow, that bridge had to go in 1990. We were damn lucky for a LOT of years.)

Thanks to society's mindset of "All government spending is bad", a LOT of people come out losers from this tragedy. This includes politicizing Pawlenty, but he's hardly alone in turning anything into political flapdoodle.

And I'll agree, nobody wants to talk about core costs. People get into big credit card debt because they don't always look at the monthly balance either... but things like house payments and repairs should never be put aside. PLENTY are at fault for letting this issue slide and it's not just his fault.

The whole affair is a wake-up call to EVERYBODY and their current mindsets. Politicians, corporate leaders, working class, everybody. Period. Do what is necessary to keep infrastructure reasonably safe. Show people the numbers. This incident will hopefully be used as a statistic for what happens if you don't spend a little more upfront. It'll cost far more in terms of money and human life.

I'm more inclined to pin blame on Ventura anyway. At first he had some points but after a while it became clear even a stereotype Republican or Democrat gave more of a damn about the office they held. Ventura only gave a fuck about himself and his tenure as "governor" was replete with incidents that had more to do with him than anyone else. Indeed, never mind all the reasons why his selfishness has made the concept of voting for a 3rd party asinine, he could have been a hero if he was honest and upfront to the people. I sure as hell would have voted for a tax increase. if it amounts to a dime from each person, nobody would notice the difference. or make toll roads so while we all pay for it, those who use those roads more contribute their fair share.


And you are 100% right. Not all are not heartless, but they don't always see the human factor because of prevailing mindsets.

And it's also possible any governor could have done everything right and problems still occur. But the evidence is showing there's been a problem for a very long time and nobody wanted to care. That's the saddest aspect of all.

[Beausoir]

54. Excellent post. n/t

[musette_sf]

20. didn't Pawlenty nix TWICE

a $.05 gas tax to be collected PRECISELY to be used for this purpose, because his "we don't want to pay any taxes" base demanded it?

he gets to participate largely in the blame for this tragedy. and anyone who can't "see the connection" between tax cuts and crumbling infrastructure is either ignorant or cruel. maybe both.

[Berry Cool]

23. There's plenty of blame to go around

For him and for others.

[tblue37]

34. Thre is a third choice--

If infrastructure is in good repair, that money could be tucked away for when the seven lean years come along--as they inevitably will.

[Thothmes]

Tucked Away

That is an admirable idea. However, it has been my experience, that no unspent dollar is allowed to remain in that status for very long. Both Repukes and Dems have a habit of finding more pressing uses for dollars than letting them accumulate for future infrastructure needs.

[tblue37]

62. True--and it isn't an acident, either. All government

agencies scramble every year to make sure they spend every cent in their budgets, because if they don't then their budgets will be cut the following year. There are employees in the finance officews of every agency whose jobs consist almost entirely of finding ways to make sure that every penny of that money gets spent. In fact, one young man I know switched jobs in D.C. because that is what his job entailed and he couldn't stand it any longer.

But if we are imagining ideal uses of surpluses, and saving it for the seven lean years is a good one, just as it is on the level of personal finances.

Here in Kansas, we had a lot of extra money during the Clinton years, so they slashed taxes. Now we are cutting public transportation, proven programs for disadvantaged children, and other such important services. Oh, and our roads are in terrible disrepair. A court-ordered expenditure for Kansas public education is being fought tooth and nail by Republican legislators, because they know people won't sit still for taxes, and there is no money.

[Thothmes]

61. Tucked Away

That is an admirable idea. However, it has been my experience, that no unspent dollar is allowed to remain in that status for very long. Both Repukes and Dems have a habit of finding more pressing uses for dollars than letting them accumulate for future infrastructure needs.

[Liberal In Texas]

39. There could be no recording. It didn't happen.

It's a good story, but see my post below.

[KittyWampus]

7. those rescue workers are going to be haunted for life.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. We had a similar tragedy here in Kansas City

A skywalk collapsed and killed 114 people. Some of the rescue workers never got over it. They quit or committed suicide.

[REP]

12. Not really similar - the Hyatt collapse was due to bad engineering

The Hyatt catwalks collapsed due to bad engineering and cheap work, not due to 40 years of use and few retrofits.

[Berry Cool]

24. But in both cases, a structure collapsed because someone was trying to cut corners

whether to build or to repair...and people paid with their lives.

[defendandprotect]

28. and that's the problem with Capitalism . . . profit.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

37. I thought the post was in reference to the rescue workers at both, for which there are great

similarites.

Your post seems to have missed the point. MKJ

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. I was thinking the similarity lies in the collpase of the structure

and the impact on the emergency workers.

[mzmolly]

19. I remember that, it was horrible.

We have Skyways in the Metro area of the Twin Cities, and when they load up with people to watch various parades/events, I ponder that incident. I never pile into a structure like that when it's crowded.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Skywalks always creep me out

[EFerrari]

29. OMG.

:(

[earth mom]

30. IMO, they should have at least tried.

:cry:

[mzmolly]

31. That's what I thought too. I can't imagine saying to someone, well you just have to

die here, buh bye. I guess I understand from one perspective, but rescue workers risk their lives, that's what they do.

[Maru Kitteh]

40. It's my understanding that they stayed with the dying and gave comfort care

and then assigned a worker to remain with each body through the night, after they were gone.

I think they did the best they could and showed remarkable compassion under the worst possible circumstances. It's likely some of the rescue workers will never recover from this. In our state, a sheriff who failed to stop a bank robbery that killed 5 people couldn't get past blaming himself. He took his own life two weeks later, and left behind a young wife and 4 beautiful little boys, so that was six more lives ruined.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the emergency workers along with the families and the other victims.

[Liberal In Texas]

41. "My understanding?" From WHAT?

This is nonsense. It's a new legend. A myth.

It was a terrible tragedy. BUT Don't make some internet rumor that you don't know where came from look like fact.

IT'S BS.!!!

[Blue Diadem]

66. I heard one of the spokesman(not sure who) say the exact same thing at a press conference

Someone stayed with the trapped people until they passed. Then someone was assigned to keep eye over them through the night. It's really not an internet rumor.

[mzmolly]

71. Oh God, I hadn't heard that. How horrible. I understand but it's wrenching.

:cry:

[mzmolly]

51. I'm glad to hear that, the details are scetchy. When they said "we chose to leave them"

I was under the impression that they left them literally. I'm sure there will be more info in the coming days.

[rodeodance]

59. under IDEAL conditions a Jaws of LIFE could come in, but these conditions

are not ideal. I say a prayer to the workers who stayed with them during their bodies could be taken out.

[liberal renegade]

32. I agree

the fact they didn't even try is disturbing. Firemen run into burning buildings to save lives, for crying out loud... I can't imagine telling someone I can't help you because I might get hurt or killed.

And then hand them a cell phone to call loved ones to say goodbye..:wtf:

[fortyfeetunder]

33. This is disgusting.

Reminds me of Hurricane Katrina. What a tragedy. When I read this I got sick to my stomach, and on my way home, getting ready to cross an overpass (that had been repaired not too long ago) and I cried.

[BlueIris]

36. .

[Liberal In Texas]

38. Apocryphal comes to mind. Urban Legend next.

5 people died (thus far) on the ill-fated interstate bridge.

One was the truck driver in his burning semi next to the school bus. Another was a drowning victim EV-aced to the trauma hospital and was DOA.

Do you really think that this romantic story about people saying goodbye to loved ones while they drowned is true?

It DOES NOT pass the smell test.

It is so reminiscent of the stories we heard just after 9/11.

Also, the story came out about 10 minutes after the bridge collapsed. Another "smell test" indicator.

LOOK MY FRIENDS! IT'S AN URBAN LEGEND. New. Yes. But fake.

[smalll]

50. Ding ding ding we have a winner / nt

[mzmolly]

53. It is true, it was said at a televised news conference.

Happened. Sorry. This is a local newspaper that is linked above.

I'm in Minnesota, and a 36 year old Mounds View man pictured below is one of those who called his family via cell phone from the wreckage to say goodbye.



http://wcco.com/local/local_story_214235529.html

[JanMichael]

57. ? Your link says this about him:

He and his wife had last spoken in the morning, a routine and unremarkable conversation.

"Normal stuff," Jennifer Holmes said, her voice breaking.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

43. Reminds me of the Loma Prieta quake of 1989

When the Cypress Street double decker freeway collapsed...

Lots of people crushed, lots pinned..

[DeSwiss]

44. Oh god....

...I didn't need to know this.......

[JI7]

45. i don't know much about this

and whether it was the right thing to do.

but just thinking about these people is heart breaking. it is like when i think of 9/11 and the people who were stuck in the upper floors and had no means of escaping.

just what some people in the world have to go through. people just going about their everyday business at work, coming home and suddenly they are in a place where they know they will die and just waiting and thinking about their loved ones.

[Madspirit]

48. No words to say...

:cry:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

55. I can't believe this! It was decided to leave them? Who the hell made the decision?

:cry:

[rodeodance]

58. "There's people pinned, severely injured. We couldn't move them." You were

not at the scene. The people had to make a very terrible decision, and I respect their decision.

[JanMichael]

60. This is sensationalism, not news. There are 5 people confirmed dead;

ONE guy who was being worked on-not left-told the EMS personnel to say "goodbye" to his family.

note the journalistic "style" here--"People." Not a number, not specific. Just sensationalist crap to get readers emotionally worked up.

This could very well be the beginning of a true urban myth.

[mzmolly]

63. I'm in Minnesota, it's not myth.

It's been on the local news more than once. And, no one is lambasting the rescue workers over the incident.

[mzmolly]

65. A more recent account:

The city's fire chief, Jim Clack, told of one driver who was able, briefly, to locate his family. "A gentleman who was injured severely … enough time before he passed away to talk to his family and say goodbye."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/tell-my-family-i-said-goodbye-trapped-victims-told-those-trying-torescue-them/2007/08/03/1185648144019.html

[JanMichael]

70. Right. Same guy I was writing about.

that does not add up to "people."

Nor was he "left." The guy didn't make it; he was worked on, he just was injured too badly to live.

It is sad----but, this article is misleading crap.

[malaise]

64. This is truly sad but my question is

how many people because the reports from people who were there and the numbers stated don't make sense. How many represented 'them'.

[bettyellen]

67. there was an est of 30 missing, not counted as dead yet, aside from 4-5 confirmed dead

[malaise]

69. The more important question still is

how many people they were unable to rescue in vehicles - how many were they unable to help - not those missing in the river. One eyewitness said he saw six dead people. I find the official numbers confusing.

[mzmolly]

73. They've lowered the number of missing to eight, which is unbelievable.

Could have been even more tragic.

[MrSlayer]

68. It's sad but sometimes the hard choice has to be made.

Do you risk more lives trying to save the unsaveable or do you cut your losses and do what is feasible? It's a terrible choice to make but you have to do what is the least risky to causing further loss of life. This is an immense tragedy all around, even worse because it was avoidable.

[mzmolly]

72. I know it would not be intentional. I was quite emotional when I heard

however. I can't imagine my husband laying in the wreckage waiting to die.