"He never would have called me 'sniveling,'" O'Neal said - Tillman thread

[seemslikeadream]

seems to be quite a few new stories coming out about Pat Tillman. I going to try and post them all here for reference




http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

"He never would have called me 'sniveling,'" O'Neal said. "I don't remember ever speaking to this chaplain, and I find this characterization of Pat really upsetting. He never once degraded me. He's the only person I ever worked for who didn't degrade anyone. He wasn't that sort of person."


http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9789986/2

After killing Tillman, at least one of the same Rangers turned his guns on a village where witnesses say civilian women and children had gathered. The shooters raked it with fire, the American witnesses said; they wounded two additional fellow Rangers, including their own platoon leader.


Poll question: Do you think Pat Tillman was murdered by an American soldier?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1462425


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3411851

3411851, Was Pat Tillman Murdered for being Anti-Bush?
Posted by Vyan on Sun Jul-29-07 12:43 PM

Friday on Countdown Keith Olbermann reported the new information the Army Ranger and Former NFL Star Pat Tillman was not only killed via "Fratricide" (Friendly Fire) but that it might also have been a deliberate act of murder due the close grouping of three M-16 shots in his forehead.

But not only that, could Tillman have been killed for his political views?

From Thinkprogress.

"Was the man the White House used to promote the war ordered to be killed because he was becoming increasingly critical of the war in Iraq?"

http://www.youtube.com/v/6raSFqA-BfY " name="movie"> Watch Video from Countdown

Could it be that Tillman was fragged for bad mouthing Bush?


The idea of fragging a war critic may seem an extreme proposition, unless of course you happen to be a darling of the Right-wing like Ann Coulter.

On June 20 and 21, right-wing pundit Ann Coulter refused to explain -- and even expanded upon -- her recent claim that Rep. John P. Murtha (D-PA) is "the reason soldiers invented fragging,"

On Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, Coulter further expanded upon her statement, asserting that if Murtha "did get fragged, he'd finally deserve one of those Purple Hearts."

So it's not like what is being suggested here is entirely "unthinkable"- it's already been thought of in regards to those who have the temerity to dare question and criticize the Wars of Georege W. Bush.

Thinkprogress Continued...

Last night on MSNBC’s Countdown, host Keith Olbermann noted that "Corporal Tillman held a number of personal views that were unpopular within the context of the Bush administration, perhaps also within the Army." Tillman reportedly favored John Kerry in the presidential election, opposed the invasion of Iraq, and had plans to meet with Noam Chomsky.

Speaking on Countdown Jon Stolz of VoteVets.org posed the question.

We know he was a free thinker. But it leads you to think was this guy killed possibly by people that didn’t like his political views or was he killed accidentally? We had a time in the war when the Abu Ghraib scandal broke in April 2004 in Iraq; we had basically the Iraqi Tet offensive where the Shiite militias rose up and the contractors were burned at the stake; the President was facing the election and he decided not to go into Fallujah for six months. Did they use him to justify, politically, bad policy in Iraq?

It may be a bit premature to neccesarily assign motives to what was clearly a tragic occurance - but the odd intensity of secrecy the Bush Administration has shown in exerting executive priviledge to block congresstional inquiries concerning this incident may be illustrative.

We already know that Tillman was shot by a fellow soldier, isn't that bad enough - what more could there be to hide?

Maybe the possibility that it wasn't an accident.

The Associated Press reported that in the last moments before Tillman died, another soldier was hugging the ground at Tillman’s side, and Tillman said, "Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God’s not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling –"

I've never served, or been involved in a situation with comrades whose lives depend on me as much as I depend on them, but it seems to me that there were some serious personal issues at play between Tillman and the person he was speaking too. Comments such as those clearly have History.

If these were indeed his last words on earth (and this has been heavily disputed) then the public and his family absolutely deserve to know if he was shot by the person he was yelling at - or someone else not involved in the scuffle. Either way, we're they just plain careless with their weapon, did they perceive Tillman's aggressive words as a threat and the last straw in a long standing arguement, did they simply have a momentary flash of rage and poor judgement or was it something else entirely?

The Tillman shooting occurred fairly early in our campaigns in both Afghanistan and Iraq, after several years of extended deployments, stop-loss, improperly and untreated cases of PTSD since the wars began there have been 116 confirmed cases of Soldier Suicide.

Latest official figures released by the Pentagon reveal at least 116 self-inflicted fatalities in Iraq. But this does not include several dozen still under investigation, nor any of the many cases back in the U.S.

The Star Tribune of Minneapolis reported the latest example today. It revealed that an Iraq war veteran reported missing in northern Minnesota -- and suffering from post-traumatic stress -- had been found dead.

With the tragedies of both Haditha and Moumoudiya now on record, Tillman's shooting just might have been an early warning sign that has gone unheaded.








Panel Demands Records on Tillman's Death
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2916675

White House, Pentagon cite executive privilege to hold up documents on friendly fire victim Tillman
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2916462

House Dems want Rumsfeld, generals to testify in Tillman case
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2920470

Committee Requests Specific Tillman Documents from the White House
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2928139

General's rank could be reduced in Tillman probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2930286

New Details on Tillman's Death (Homicide?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2931311

Ranger: Shooters could not have been 10 yards from Tillman
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2933343

[shance]

1. Interesting and yet nothing about the biggest story: President citing executive privilege on this

n/t

[Faygo Kid]

4. Yeah, that's beyond bizarre. More great followup by the media.

Three bullet holes to the forehead at close range, and Bush claims executive privilege so as not to address it. What's up with that?

Thanks for the reminder.

[AnnieBW]

2. I thought that the "sniveling" comment sounded weird

I obviously didn't know Tillman, but I do know many soldiers. I doubt that any of them would have told another soldier to "stop sniveling" when they were in the middle of a firefight. It seemed so out of character with what we know about Tillman that I figured that something was wrong.

I don't normally wear tinfoil headgear, but I'm firmly convinced that Tillman was fragged because he was going to come forward and blow the lid off of the whole sordid mess.

[PDJane]

5. reasonable assumption.......

since he'd agreed to speak to Noam Chomsky.

[TomInTib]

6. That part of the "story" is obviously bullshit.

As one who has experienced quite a lot of close quarters combat, I have never heard anyone string together a complete sentence using that many words while taking heavy fire.

[pacalo]

7. Same here about the "sniveling" comment. The "hugging the ground" comment is suspect, also.

Sounds like a scene from an old movie, ala "we're going to smoke them out".

[CatWoman]

8. I'll tell you something else that rings suspect, IMHO

Tillman was supposed to have yelled "I'M PAT TILLMAN, STOP FIRING"!!

Tillman doesn't strike me as the egotistical, self-absorbed type who would "name drop" and assume everyone knew who he was.

[pacalo]

10. And the way it was said, too...

"I'm Pat f*ckin Tillman!" Sounds like another B-movie line. Additionally, three shots close together on his forehead tell me there weren't too many missed shots to provide Tillman the opportunity for identifying himself.

The opinions of the unknown doctors who received his body tell the story: it was murder.

[ChazII]

3. Thank you. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

9. A question about the TIllman story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1468396

hedgehog (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-29-07 07:22 PM
Original message
A question about the TIllman story:
Tillman's group was supposedly held up because a Humvee broke down and they had to rent a truck from a near-by village to tow it. Can't one Humvee tow another?

[seemslikeadream]

11. Was Pat Tillman Murdered? Absulutely Yes, according to A Nam Vet

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1471925&mesg_id=1471925

What kind or rifle killed Tillman?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1472446&mesg_id=1472446