Outrage! Re: The couple arrested on a "desecration" charge for flying the upside-down flag.

[Kingshakabobo]

I posted this info in the other two threads but I thought I would start a new thread so more people see this outrage.

Bold type is my commentary

originals:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1441925
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1442688


I KNEW I smelled a rat.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1442688&mesg_id=1443193


As it turns out, the deputy who made the arrest, was acting outside normal dispatch procedure AND was put up to it by his national guard buddies. One of the National Guard buddies was the mysterious "man in fatigues" (Sargent Radford) that showed up on the victim's doorstep, prior to the arrest, to harass the victims about the flag. Not only in uniform but driving a car with official government plates.

Furthermore, a witness corroborates the victim's story of the deputy trying to kick the door down prior to breaking the glass.

The bottom line is, a couple National Guard members didn't like the fact that these civilians had the audacity to exercise their constitutional rights to free speech.....So,they called the city police. When the city police investigated and did nothing they called their "pal" , who is a ROOKIE deputy in the sheriff's police. When the victims told the deputy to pound sand and retreated to their home, the deputy ILLEGALLY broke in to their home, assaulted them and then arrested them. Of course, knowing his entry was illegal, he, in good fascist manner, concocted a scheme saying the victims assaulted HIM. I guess it could have been worse. He could have killed the victims and planted a weapon - the deputy is a rookie - give him time.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Something stinks. Pay attention to the Sargent's love of free speech.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111

"A Buncombe County sheriff’s deputy acting on a complaint from a fellow National Guardsman issued the charge Wednesday at the Brevard Road home of Mark and Deborah Kuhn."

snip

The Sheriff’s Office will conduct an internal review to determine whether the Deputy Brian Scarborough was right in personally taking action on the complaint, Sheriff Van Duncan said. The usual procedure is to refer the complaint to Asheville police, he said.

snip........(Radford is the deputy's pal who complained)

Radford said he first noticed the Kuhns’ flag July 20 driving to and from the National Guard unit headquarters. Radford said he is not friends with Scarborough but knows him as a soldier and from seeing him on patrol near the unit headquarters. Radford said Scarborough is not in his unit.

“I’m all about free speech … and to have all of this stuff in his yard, that would be fine. Nobody really cares,” Radford said. “But when you take the American flag … to do that, it’s illegal, but personally, it was disrespectful. I was like, ‘Man, too many people have served under that flag.’”


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The witness

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070727062407918



Quote: """However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door.

“I saw that one cop pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.”""""

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The professionalism of the deputy. Gee, I wonder how the man in fatigues knew when the citation/arrest would take place. Maybe lucky? Do you think, maybe, he tipped his buddies so they could enjoy the show?

Quote: """""Furthermore, Wilson said that as the Kuhns were being arrested and taken off, he saw a man in fatigues drive by and shout “Go to jail, baby!”""""""

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The "Sargent"....protecting our "freedoms."


A couple of days later, Mark Kuhn said that a man in military fatigues came to their door, and was driving a car with a federal license plate. “He stood here telling me that I needed to take the flag down or fly it right,” he said.

Kuhn adds that he assumed the man was with the National Guard, due to the nearby armory.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[hobbit709]

1. I'd have a camera and witnesses ready at all times.

[Kingshakabobo]

5. From the cops I know, and reading stories like this, I think it should be...

.....mandatory for police to wear "hat-cams" from the minute they put on the badge and gun to the minute they take them off.

We have the technology. The dash-cams are great but they need to take it a step further.

YOUR camera might get you arrested for "wiretapping" in some jurisdictions.....as seen in previous stories on DU.

[defendandprotect]

72. WEAR A US FLAG POSTAGE STAMP UPSIDE DOWN --

it's only a little effort to show anti-war, anti-Bush sentiment and your voice for our nation in distress --

[Shipwack]

83. They are about to start a program in the UK...

Bobbies in the UK are going to start wearing a hat cam during working hours. If it was here, I'd wonder how often they would conveniently get misaligned or turn off "by themselves".

'Smile, you're on camera!' Police to get 'head-cams'

Police officers in the UK are to be given head-mouted video cameras to film incidents and arrests, the footage of which can then be used in evidence.

The Home Office is to give police £3 million to fund a national roll-out of head cameras after regional trials proved they were successful in fighting crime, the Government has announced.

The move, announced by Minister of State for Police, Crime, Security and Counter-Terrorism Tony McNulty, comes after an evaluation of a pilot project in Plymouth by Devon and Cornwall Constabulary.

A report on the project showed that use of "body worn video devices" led to an increase in the proportion of crimes where the offender was brought to justice compared with incidents where the cameras were not used.

[Kingshakabobo]

86. I would much rather have THAT than all the traffic-cams and street-cams.

I just noticed a bunch of street-cams pop up in my neighborhood - Wrigley Field Chicago.

[mmonk]

2. It's not desecration. It's the distress signal. We have no working constitution.

[nashville_brook]

16. they're so uneducated they don't know the difference

disgraceful.

[aquart]

3. Were the Nat'l Guard guys just back from Iraq? About to go?

Or little Bushies who let someone else fight while they posture?

[Kingshakabobo]

8. Yes, the deputy was recently in Iraq, IIRC. Only on the force a couple months.

Maybe he forgot he was back? Or not.

[janx]

36. That explains a lot.

It explains almost everything. The poor guy.

[Kingshakabobo]

37. I don't know if I'm inclined to cut him slack.

It's not as though this happened on the spur of the moment. There was plenty of "scheming" going on for at least a week prior to the arrest. Whether he was in on all of it or not remains to be seen. At the very least, he decided to "handle" this outside normal channels in an area that should have been handled by the city cops.....the city cops that previously investigated this and let it be.

Furthermore, I don't see how being a vet absolves him from lying about the assault and pressing false charges to cover his illegal entry?

[janx]

42. It doesn't excuse anything--you're right.

But it does explain a lot.

[The Wizard]

49. Time to get out the field telephone

attach the leads to the guys nuts and crank the ringer.
This is an indictable offense and should be turned over to county prosecutors, the State Attorney General, or the United States Attorney for further action. Acting under the color of law, the deputy terrorized innocent citizens.
A civil suit naming the Sheriff's department and all government entities in supervisory positions. Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and George Bush for fomenting an atmosphere that encourages Americans to assault their fellow citizens and neighbors should also be named as defendants along with all who participated in the offense to the individuals and the Constitution.
As the fascists hounded Bill Clinton with civil suits, we the people should return the favor in kind and do it tenfold. Tie up the court system and make the criminals use their resources defending their anti-American junta against the rest of civilization.

[Auntie Bush]

75. The Wizard has spoken! Now Listen! Stop standing around with

your hands in your pockets and pick up the phone and make noise!
Loud noise...in many ears.

[followthemoney]

64. My country, right or wrong? My troops, right or wrong?

One party for all. All for one party? Smells totalitarian to me.

[Oilwellian]

60. He was having flashbacks?

[AX10]

4. Reason 1,045,539 that I would not live in a dark red area.

The Deputy will get his someday, and he would have earned it too! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Disturbed]

10. This will be a windfall of money for the victims.

I hope they sue every damn Asshole involved in this shameful act of violence toward them.

[Kingshakabobo]

14. I read, in one of these articles, they don't want to sue??????

That makes no sense. They have a DUTY to sue - The sheriff's dept. - the deputy AND pursue charges against the NG Sargent.

I'm sure the ACLU will talk some sense in to them.

[followthemoney]

65. What he will get is a medal from the office of the homeland.

[ProudDad]

66. Actually, AFIK, Ashville is not that dark red

I know a lot of folk singers who live there.

One wrote a song about the "been theres" and the "came heres" -- long term red neck vs. newly arrived folks.

If this had happened in a REAL DARK RED area -- the fucking cop would have shot them -- and gotten away with it.

Or, more likely, they would have to self-censor to avoid vigilantes coming to their home and "fixing them"!

There is NO justice in this country...

[AX10]

78. Still, I could never live in North Carolina.

[ProudDad]

81. Chapel Hill would be ok

I understand that it's the Berkeley of North Carolina.

[immoderate]

6. This looks good but....

I think your long strings of >>>>>>>>>> characters are causing the text to wrap off the screen. If you can edit them it would be visible without horizontal scrolling. Thanks.

--IMM

[Kingshakabobo]

7. Done. Thanks!!

[Sonicmedusa]

9. Remove more of them, I still have to scroll

And being in Asheville, I WANT people to see this.

Thanks!

[Kingshakabobo]

12. I THINK I got it? Better? I have a giant monitor. Thanks(again).

[Sonicmedusa]

13. Much better!

;)

[immoderate]

30. Good! Thank you! You could also put occasional spaces in a long line.

so it wraps on a small monitor.

Thanks again. Now I can concentrate at being pissed at that deputy!! :mad:

--IMM

[Make7]

80. Instead of using strings of '>>>>>>>>>>', you can make a line with HTML.

The advantage of using an HTML line is that the text wrap around still works correctly for what ever window width someone may be using for their browser, while still drawing a line the full width of the text area. Like this:

---

To test this, you can resize the width of your browser window to see that the line above remains full width even though the text wraps to match the window. Here is code (in bold) to make a line:

   text

   [hr noshade size="2"]
   more text

DemocraticUnderground's 'excerpt' element also comes in handy when quoting text. Such as:

The Sheriff’s Office will conduct an internal review to determine whether the Deputy Brian Scarborough was right in personally taking action on the complaint, Sheriff Van Duncan said. The usual procedure is to refer the complaint to Asheville police, he said.

The code for that is:

   text

   [div class="excerpt"]quoted text[/div]
   more text

The code for the 'excerpt' element can also be found in DU's HTML lookup table under the heading 'Blockquote'.

- Make7

[Kingshakabobo]

87. You're the best! Thanks!

;)

---

I'm putting you in for a NWO Medal - The Silver Shill. It comes with a pay-grade increase.

:)

edit: to try out my new skills

[ryanus]

11. Excellent write-up

somebody needs to go to jail, and it's not the couple that flew the flag.

[nashville_brook]

15. very un-Ashevillian.

[mmonk]

17. I thought it was in Brevard.

[libnnc]

22. Story says Brevard Road which is in Asheville

Brevard is in Transylvania county. Asheville is in Buncombe.

[mmonk]

33. Oops sorry.

That IS surprising for Asheville.

[Sonicmedusa]

25. Oh not really!

You would be shocked, shocked, I say, to know how many illiterate, right wingnuts there are here.

You need only look at the comments here to prove it:

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/asheville-citizen-times/TBTRMK86BK2FL8ARU

[nashville_brook]

39. :) as a former Johnson Citian (TN), Asheville was our shining city on the hill

our last, best chance at civilization!

:hi:

[paparush]

47. Asheville is a microcosm of the US. Sure, there a lots of liberals, but just

as many, if not more hard core right wingers, religious fundamentalists, and under-educated, gungho, gun nutz.

[nashville_brook]

92. Johnson City seemed to only have the religious nuts

you guys have a great art scene (and bookstore -- Malaprops) that brought us over the mountain.

[mmonk]

18. Send this to Keith.

[Recursion]

19. WTF? It's specifically allowed by the US Flag Code

Now, I could see some sort of citation for a false signal of distress (and that's why I don't recommend flying the colors upside down; it's supposed to be like shouting "help"). But it's specifically legal!

[Kingshakabobo]

20. To be clear, I think he wanted to cite them for "stapling" the signs to the flag.

[paparush]

53. To be even clearer, my co-worker, who lives across the street

says they had attached a picture of Bush** to the upside down flag.

Which is a wonderful use of the upside down flag distress call.

[Kingshakabobo]

55. Exactly. Hey, I have a suggestion for your co-worker's neighbors.

How about some life sized photos of bush and pickles standing on a flag? Or Bush "desecrating" a flag by signing it?....or other examples in this thread. They can add a caption.

Of course, I don't know if I could stomach a life-sized bush in front of my home.

I got the idea from a CNN story running about a father placing life-sized posters of kids near the street to slow traffic.




http://www.wkyc.com/news/regional/akron_article.aspx?storyid=71831
The signs cost up to $60 each. Parents or homeowners interested in the signs can call Mike Wood at 419-853-7002.

[LiberalFighter]

77. Should get a photoshopped picture of the deputy

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Figures.

I wonder what those screwballs in those other threads have to say now.

[Zodiak]

23. Yup....the Sheriff needs to spend some time behind bars

For assaulting this couple after breaking into their house on a matter that is not within the jurisdiction of his department.

If the Sheriff is smart, he would at least fire this guy.

And the Kuhns should at least sue, if not file criminal charges.

It is for this reason that people do not trust the police. The badge does not make one above the law.

[Kingshakabobo]

26. "Technically", as a county copper, he had jurisdiction..........

The county spokesperson is trying to gloss over the fact that they "usually" refer these matters to the city cops. Well, it had already been through the city cops......but not to the satisfaction of the Sargent and his pals.

Apparently, the call to the city cops referenced the "distress" signal......

[Cha]

24. Recommended! Thank you,

Kingshakabobo for making sure we all know about this "desecration".. and the desecration comes from sargent radford not the couple flying their flag upside down.

[RufusTFirefly]

27. Protected speech vs. Desecration

Protected speech...




Desecration...




Protected speech ...




Desecration ...

[kath]

28. where's the photo of Chimpyshit signing a flag with a pen/marker - that's definitely desecration as

well.

I guess it's only desecration if someone on the left does it...

[RufusTFirefly]

29. Advertisements routinely desecrate the flag

But again, since it's business and business is sacred, nobody minds

The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed, or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, firefighters, police officers, and members of patriotic organizations.

From United States Flag Code

[Oeditpus Rex]

34. If someone ever called me on 'wearing' the flag

I'd point to that section of the code and say, "I'm a member of a patriotic organization. I'm a liberal."

:patriot:

[Rose Siding]

43. Here's a shot of jr and pickles walking on the flag

http://wonkette.com.nyud.net:8090/images/thumbs/c42189b7a1db343fdd0ac9f4969cda35.jpg

[WorseBeforeBetter]

79. Bush desecrating the flag...

Wonder if Scarborough would be as quick to arrest Commander Flightsuit.

[havocmom]

31. Saw hundreds of flags flying upside down for eight years and no cops enraged

But, those flags were displayed upside down between January '93 and January '01.

Guess it's only 'illegal' if done when a Republican is in the WH?

[me b zola]

32. k&r

[Peace Patriot]

35. I'm afraid we're going to have a lot of this kind of behavior--angry, stressed,

Iraq vets--losing their judgment, taking their rage out on innocent people, suffering PTSS--and also falling into alcoholism, drug addiction, marital conflict, and other destructive syndromes, and also ending up homeless and friendless, and I think it's going to be even worse than Vietnam. The horrible example of leadership that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld have displayed--their thievery, their treason, their assault on the rule of law, not to mention their use of torture, and encouragement of torture--must present an excruciating conflict for many service people (which now include National Guard and Reserves!). Their commanders are shit-heads, hated by the American people. Their war couldn't have been more illegal and unjust. How can they reconcile their own service, and their own honorable and ethical beliefs, with these gangsters at the top? It must hurt badly. And "denial" would be one reaction--a vet (or even a non-vet who identifies with the military, like some cops do) identifying with the flag and the country, both of which have been disgraced by the Bush Junta, in many Americans' eyes, and feeling offended by ANOTHER AMERICAN--a citizen!--expressing this with the distress signal, an upside down flag--meaning that the "ship of state" is in real trouble. Blaming the citizen! Being unable to blame the criminals who give them their order.

Many U.S. soldiers in Iraq are little more than slaves and cannon fodder. They have been forced into multiple tours of duty--12 months, 18 months, sometimes 3 or 4 tours in succession, with little rest--and highly dangerous tours. Many are inadequately trained and ill equipped. The Nat'l Guard and Reserves, who signed up to help with domestic emergencies, have found themselves in Iraq instead--in great danger--having to abandon civilian jobs and businesses, and their families. It is UNCONSCIONABLE what is being done to them. It will be a miracle if we don't have an epidemic of psychosis, suicide and other grave problems, among returning vets.

But what I'm getting at is the "Stockholm Syndrome"--whereby kidnap victims can end up sympathizing with their kidnappers--in this case, the President and Vice President of the U.S., and the Sec of Defense, who have hijacked the U.S. military for a corporate resource war, and are not just sending U.S. military personnel into harm's way, but are repeatedly sending them BACK into this horrible civil war, with the soldiers having no recourse. THAT is kidnapping. THAT is slavery. And the victims of it get their brains fried, over there in the relentless desert sun, with hostile people on all sides. They identify with these evil Bushite overlords, and get all mixed up in their heads, about flag, country and their commanders.

I'm not trying to excuse this inexcusable behavior toward the Kuhns. I'm just saying that we would be wise to expect more of it, and that we had better plan for it better than we planned for the Vietnam vets' return. These people--our soldiers--have been grievously harmed by this Junta. Apart from the bombing of some 100,000 innocent people, in the invasion, and torture, there is no greater crime that the Bush Junta has committed than its abuse of the U.S. military. People who can't talk back. People who can't fight back. People who are obliged to obey. People who cannot say "no" to this slavery, without grave consequences. Often, very young people, who have no idea what they are getting into, when they sign up--have little information (due to the disgusting corporate news media) and little savvy about what's going on; and older people--with careers and homes and families and obligations--many of whom did not sign up for war service, but rather for civilian emergency service, and were "drafted" into Rumsfeld's hell hole.

I fear that we are going to have a great price to pay, in our society, for this horror. But I do hope that many of these Iraq vets will be able to transcend whatever harm has been done to them, and get into politics when they come home--as some have done already--to help us prevent the U.S. military from ever being misused again, and to help us end this Bushite tyranny and prevent it from ever happening again.

As for the Kuhns, if they are further harassed, I hope there will be a movement for all of us to put upside down flags on our homes, in solidarity with them--like the King and Queen of Denmark, who, when the Nazis made the Jews wear yellow triangles, emerged from their palace one day with yellow triangles on their clothes, as a protest and sign of unity with the oppressed.

We cannot let this go by without protest.

[puebloknot]

41. While I completely agree with your assessment of the trauma...

... returning troops face, and the devastating effects on their lives, I'm also concerned about the vehicle that military service becomes for expressing macho, "power trip" behavior on the part of a certain percentage of people that they couldn't get by with except for the breakdown in our legal system.

We have seen quite enough of that kind of behavior in our police departments, even without the added factor of having served in a war. When those two factors come together, it's a very frightening prospect.

[ProudDad]

70. You've got THAT right...

"We have seen quite enough of that kind of behavior in our police departments"

There are plenty of "non-veteran" cops who act the way this asshole did...the system selects for them and breeds them...

It's just going to get worse now that they've been able to go over to I-raq and kill them some towel-heads...

[0007]

84. Great post!

[Breeze54]

38. Holy shit!! How'd I miss this story!

thank You very much for reposting it!!

What a lot of gall those bastids have!! I'm outraged!!!!

:grr:



Though some veterans' organizations are far from embracing the idea, Aaron Zelman, president of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), said flying Old Glory upside-down, a traditional signal of distress, is not "disrespectful," but a way of showing "love for your country."

"If you really want to save freedom," he said, "then you embrace the concept of flying the flag upside-down to get other people's attention so they, too, will understand the threat we're faced with and embrace freedom."

You have to see the rest of the pictures here!
http://www.worth1000.com/cache/contest/contestcache.asp?contest_id=3084

---------------

[Breeze54]

40. The woman arrested for this is LIVE right now on----

mms://wm13.spacialnet.com/novamradio72251

www.novamradio.com


She's telling all that happened!! and laughing!! :rofl:

[L0oniX]

44. This is why I hate the cops and the millitary !

:mad:

[INDIA]

58. That's stupid.

This is the one of the most egregious violations of constitutional rights I've ever read about, an outlier case for sure. Pretty dumb to paint such a broad brush don't you think? It's ignorant bigotry.

Do you say "this is why I hate all black people" whenever an African-American commits a crime? Didn't think so. And I'd be willing to bet there are fewer violent assholes in the Military and Police ranks than the civilian population at large.

[ProudDad]

71. I'll take that bet...

"bet there are fewer violent assholes in the Military and Police ranks than the civilian population at large"

The military and the cops select for and create them...

In civilian life, nearly all of them are created by the criminal-injustice system.

[whistle]

45. BushCo Nazi bully brown shirt tactics

...If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

[Faygo Kid]

46. I posted at the newspaper. This couple is in physical danger.

This is a dangerous and volatile situation. There are direct threats being made to their physical safety. Looks like years and years of right-wing hatred stoked by the talk radio, Fox News and Karl Rove crowd are coming home to roost. I hope they are taking every safety precaution. And that Keith and others bring this to the fore; to be threatened for exercising your Constitutional rights is frightening. Just a prelude to what's coming, I am afraid.

[Kingshakabobo]

52. I'm afraid you are correct.

It will get worse if and when the Dems take the White House. I've been saying that gay bars, abortion clinics, newspapers and federal buildings should all double their security. It will make the 90's "jack-booted thugs" era seem like child's play.

[paparush]

48. My co-worker lives across the street from this couple.

Old time hippies he calls them. Nice people. Good neighbors.

After the arrest, a local paper knocked on his door and wanted to interview him about the "Flag Desecration"

He closed the door in their face.

"Had they come to talk to me about my neighbor's civil rights being violated, then I would have talked to them."

[Kingshakabobo]

51. Ha! Good for your co-workers. n/t

[ProudDad]

73. Good Response

It sounds like they already had their minds made up.

IF they'd talked to the "reporters" the "reporters" probably would have cherry-picked and twisted what your friends said into their version of events...

[derby378]

50. "Sieg heil," indeed...

K&R!

:mad:

[Faygo Kid]

54. I hear the faint strains of "The Horst Wessel Song" rising from Asheville.

Anyone who does not think there are many people who would welcome George Bush assuming authoritarian powers through martial law needs to visit the comments on the Asheville paper's website.

[Peace Patriot]

57. We need a healer in the White House, a quality that is rather rare in politicians.

And I don't mean a compromiser. The reichwing is about 25%. (We're now getting down to Bush's real numbers.) It has never been much more than that, in my opinion, and part of that group is just the rich and super-rich who are profiting. The dangerous people (I mean aside from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and that lot--the coup leaders, or front people--and their CEO cabal) are maybe about 15%-20% of the population, a group that has always been with us since the Inquisition (and maybe since way back in the 5th Century AD, when Christianity took its wrong turn)--repressive (mostly) male patriarchal powermongers--the kind who would torture for pleasure or power, profit aside (although the two things sometimes go together). I think there is an additional 10% or so who would go along with the reichwing for various reasons, in certain circumstances, or perhaps on certain issues. 35% tops who either don't believe in democracy, or aren't smart enough to see how dangerous this reichwing is.

The rest of us are pretty smart. 56% of us figured out Bush's bullshit on Iraq way back in Feb. '03, before the invasion--a significant majority opposed to the Iraq War (--would be a landslide in a presidential election--and believe me, it was!), which has now grown to an overwhelming majority of 70+%.

I find that early 56% fascinating, because it was BEFORE Colin Powell's 100% pack of lies to the UN had been fully exposed, and also, at the same time, about 50% of Americans believed that Saddam had WMDs or had something to do with 9/11. Think about. Part of that 50%, who believed those things, had to have been part of the 56% opposed to the war. That part of the population was trying to sort through the BS and think for themselves, and concluded that, even if Saddam had WMDs, it was not a serious threat, and that if there was a connection to 9/11, it was minor, and neither thing was worth a war. The 56% early opposition itself was about equally divided among Americans who were outright opposed to invading Iraq, and those who would only be for it if the UN thought it was necessary.

And, over the course of the intervening 4 four years, that 50% grew to more than 70%, as word of mouth (aided by the internet)--and aided hardly at all by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies--started to get information around about the WMD lies (--not just mistakes, deliberate lies--cherrypicking of intel, etc.), the shabby, and really, unconscionable treatment of U.S. soldiers (cannon fodder in a corporate resource war), and also of honorable advisers (numerous generals, CIA professionals and others who tried to advise and were pushed aside--punished, demoted, outed), of the horrendous abandonment of the ban against torture, of the real number of Iraqis slaughtered (est. half a million), of the cost in U.S. lives and injuries, and of the vast looting of our treasury with no accountability whatsoever.

Given the relentless, 24/7 fascist propaganda and warmongering that the American people have been subjected to, those are big numbers--56% opposed from the beginning, growing to over 70%. The American people have shown rather amazing resistance to corporate/war profiteer propaganda.

I've followed the polls pretty closely, and I've noticed this on all issues--a big discrepancy between what the American people actually believe, and what they are PORTRAYED AS believing. Indeed, I don't think the fascists ever intended to convince us of anything--that unjust wars of choice are good, that torture is good--but rather to convince us--the great progressive majority--that we were in the minority, that the majority was goose-stepping to Bush (which we could see was not true, but it was made to seem true IN THE MEDIA), and that we were powerless to stop these horrible actions by our government.

This is very important to know. The majority NEVER supported this war, more than likely (I am convinced of it) did NOT vote for Bush/Cheney in 2004, and, the more people found out, through alternative news sources, the more they turned against the Junta.

So what to do with regard to the 20% to 30% who can't see how badly they have been harmed by this Junta, even now. Well, first of all, the majority is not back in control yet. We have yet to restore transparent vote counting. We have yet to remove these malefactors from our White House. And it's touch and go whether or not we are going to be inflicted with the reichwing's choice of Democratic presidential candidates, via Diebold/ES&S in the primaries. (Hillary's their first pick; after her, I think it's Christopher Dodd*.) I'm not totally sold on Obama or Edwards, but I don't think either would be Diebold/ES&S's first or second choice. Richardson, I think, is a backup to Dodd*. And Kucinich is the only one of all of them who truly represents the American people. His lack of stage presence, or is it lack of photogenic projection (he's actually a good speaker--if it were all on radio, he would win!), makes an easy excuse for the war profiteering corporate news monopolies and the DLC Democrats to marginalize him.

So, what I'm getting at is the ability of probable future presidents to deal with the reichwing, not by compromising with them, but by, first of all, restricting their ability to do harm, and secondly, by listening to them. Yup, listening to those with REAL concerns. Not the corporate mouthpieces and blowhards and male preacher men, but the ordinary Americans who are uneasy with modern life, and who were so very manipulable by Bush and cabal. Some of them are sincere, and they may have seized on the wrong leaders, or obsessed over the wrong issues, to express their uneasiness, but they may have something to teach us, some bit of wisdom that they don't even know they have. You see, I think that A LOT OF Americans are uneasy with modern life, distrustful of science (more because of pesticides and hydrogen bombs, and corporate USES of science, than with Darwin--but the uneasiness is similar, emotionally), feeling lost and disconnected in our corporatized society, feeling we've all gone way wrong somehow--with huge military budgets, and pervasive government spying, and the really insane "war on drugs," and the "prison-industrial complex," and severe damage to the planetary environment, and "free trade" (global corporate piracy), and the pervasiveness of greed, and the pervasiveness of various addictions, and all the rest of the radical fascist CHANGES to our country and our society.

The sincere people who fell for Bush were LOOKING FOR something--meaning, simplicity, purpose. These are not necessarily bad things. Maybe the new President should start a "Meaning of Life" project--town halls on what life's all about, in America, in the 21st century. Actually, I think the American people are way ahead of any politicians on this subject, but a President could coalesce it, and maybe combine it with some sort of "truth and reconciliation" process. A "truth and reconciliation" process could also be used to deal with the malefactors. How I wish it! Don't sweep everything under the rug! Have true accountability! But make it a general healing process, so that we can reduce the tensions in this society and get onto a better path, more quickly.

This awful thing that happened to the Kuhn's--and that may still be going on--is a symptom, and it is also intolerable. We cannot have it! We cannot have out-of-control police and military harassing and threatening people. Our society will become unglued. It must be dealt with firmly. But it also needs to be understood. WE, the American people, through out inattention to our voting system--and our head in the sand attitude toward so many things--have PERMITTED these war criminals to gravely abuse people who SERVE us--people in the military, in the police force, in our emergency systems. We have to take responsibility for that--for their conflicts and their rage, and, in some cases, their insanity. We have to come to terms with this, as a people--something we never did, after Vietnam. And we have to ask ourselves some real questions about sincere neighbors of ours whose thinking process has been so negatively impacted by modern life that they "don't believe" in evolution. Evolution stands for something ELSE! Perhaps it stands for the emptiness of corporate P.R. and corporate rule. If this is where evolution has led us--to the empty pursuit of material possessions, bereft of other values--and to the destruction of planet earth, perhaps it IS better not to know it.


____________________

*(Christopher Dodd is more responsible than any other Democrat for passage of the "Help America Vote Act," which essentially destroyed our right to vote. Same month as the Iraq War Resolution--October 2002. Bill Richardson stopped the recount of the vote in New Mexico, which was flipped to Bush, in 2004. Hillary Clinton, interestingly, was one of only two Senate votes against HAVA. The other was Charles Schumer. Both New Yorkers--so their motive may have been not to offend New York voters, who are very attached to their old, reliable and virtually unriggable lever voting machines. Clinton is otherwise a thorough-going corporatist, not to mention a warmonger.)

[thunder rising]

56. Military Courts Martial

I'm sure the mission for the use of the vehicle did not include using it and his uniform to harass civilians.

I served under that flag too. These goons need to be put in the brig and then put out.

If the deputy still has a job ... then there needs to be pressure put on the sheriff.

[High Plains]

59. There were several DUers rabidly defending this cop yesterday

..and criticizing the couple as somehow provocateurs.

How's that crow taste?

[TankLV]

61. Trolls all - glad I missed it...

[Sonicmedusa]

62. One rogue sheriffs deputy is not the beginning and end of the problem in Asheville.

Three weeks ago, a friend of mine, a member of the Veterans for Peace, was told by an Asheville police officer to remove the mask of George Bush that he was wearing at their weekly, peaceful vigil (a mask he has being wearing in the Tuesdays vigil for some time without getting any complaints from the Asheville police). The officer was unable to cite the city ordinance or law he was breaking. My friend dide not want to make problems for his fellow VFP, so he complied. (I have emailed the Asheville Police Department Chief requesting he cite the law for me and I am waiting for the answer.)

Five weeks ago, the Veterans For Peace billboard was vandalized and disassembled in broad daylight, on a busy street. The vandalization was reported to the police, but by the time they arrived on scene, the vandal had fled and the damage was done. (This is a billboard that prominently displays the cost of this War in money and deaths and disabilities, and calls for Impeachment of Bush for war crimes.) It has since been repaired and is back up.

Here is a LTTE regarding the billboard. The story is no longer available. (For some REAL nastiness, check out the comments.):

http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770706049

Maybe this deserves it’s own thread.

[ProudDad]

74. I love that guy "Willard"s posts though (n/t)

[Sonicmedusa]

93. Yes. Faygokid from DU is doing a pretty fine job with replies, too.

[dmr]

63. Didn't Bush* desecrate the flag by writing on it?

I'm sure I have a picture of him doing it somewhere on a cd. If Bush* can do it, so can anyone else, and I don't care what the NC state law is.

That said, I'm glad you posted this again, because I did miss it, and I am outraged that this family's civil rights were violated because some head-strong, testosterone-challenged asshole had a hard-on. It also goes to show that if you look hard and long enough, you can find someone to do your bidding, seeing that the National Guardsman found a rookie deputy willing to prove to the world how much manhood he believes he has. Only bully wimps behave this way.

I do not doubt for one minute, the family's account. They would have no reason to attack the deputy - none at all. They knew they were within their rights, and they wanted to put a stop to the foolishness before it escalated. But the deputy, is also now a liar to boot, by making up a story to vilianize the family to help him get out of trouble for his stupidity. What fun it is to lie and help yourself, while putting the victim further in legal peril.

:argh:

And, North Carolinians want this doofus to protect and serve them, their rights and property? With law enforcement like that, who needs actual criminals? But, hey, I say that about our White House, too.

The Bush* Administration and the Republican Party as a whole have done this country an injustice by teaching Americans to turn on one another with hatred and violence. These people are dangerous -- if you don't agree with them then you aren't even safe locked in your own home anymore. When will this end?

[Kingshakabobo]

67. Yes, he did.

I suggested, up thread, the victims have a life-size cardboard cut-out of that image made and place it in front of the house with "Desecration?" captioned on the cut-out.

[ProudDad]

82. I think he "desecrated" it by being born (n/t)

[HuffleClaw]

68. yup, 'gestapo' is the right word for that asshat

the clowns behind this are gonna be in some trouble.

[krj44]

69. flying the flag

upside down is a sign of distress,i guess you could say that this is a period of distress,might also say that if its their flag they could pretty much do what they want with it.as distastful as that may be.

[DutchLiberal]

76. HUH? Flying the flag upside down can have you arrested??!

These kind of stories are the reason why Europeans think America(ns) is/are crazy. I'm sorry, can't blame them, it's absurd. In fact even 'absurd' is not a strong enough word for it.

[Orsino]

85. 5-4 Supreme Court.

:mad:

[RandiFan1290]

88. Kick n/t

[warren pease]

89. I don't have any american flags -- can't stand them upside down or right side up...

To me, they're just code for "let's murder the indigenous population, let's lynch a negro for christ, let's bomb the shit out of brown people everywhere, let's give fascism a chance, let's rape the entire planet for a few million dollars more, let's become passive consuming idiots so we don't have to pay attention to what's done in our names, or what's being done to us." And so forth.

Just a rag to me, and an ugly one at that.


wp

[ProudDad]

94. As a Great Man once said

"Piss on ALL Flags"

http://www.dougdowd.org/

Doug's latest book is available in its entirety:

At the Cliff's Edge
World Problems and U.S. Power
By Doug Dowd

http://www.dougdowd.org/NewFiles/at_the_cliffs_edge/index.htm

[warren pease]

95. Great stuff! Thanks a lot for the links. n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

90. Here's another article on this story:

http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

[Kingshakabobo]

91. Interesting!

That's almost a verbatim copy of the other article posted here MINUS the link/relationship of the fatigue wearing crybaby complainant to the pig deputy. I wonder why they saw fit to neglect mentioning the deputy was acting outside normal channels to follow up on a complaint by a national guard buddy? Or that these calls are USUALLY referred to the same city cops that investigated and passed on the original complaint.

I wonder why they left out all the important parts?