Edwards' Campaign On the Ropes, Obama's is frozen, & Yes, Hillary's is "Flawless"

[David Zephyr]

Flawless. Yeah, that's me once again pointing out that Hillary is still running the best political campaign of any of the other candidates --- be they Democrats or Republicans. Like her or not, her campaign continues to cross all the t's and dot the i's, pick up valuable endorsements, and most of all, the candidate herself remains unflappable and is always prepared --- really prepared --- for every opportunity.

Last night, Hillary once again stood out in the pack last night in the debates. And that makes three for three now. It's hard to overlook that or to diminish it.

Hillary now is approaching the 40% mark in national polls of Democratic Party primary voters. Folks, in a crowd of 8 declared candidates and with just 5 months from the first contests, 40% is nearly the nomination. Believe me, the powerful endorsements of the NEA and the labor unions will probably be the next coup by Hillary...and if that happens, it's all over.

John Edwards, with respect to his supporters, continues his downward spiral in polls with his erratic campaign blunders and awkward statements. His comments about Hillary's attire last night might be the camel that broke the straw's back.

Senator Obama, while in no downward spiral like Edwards, seems to be sliding laterally and stuck at the same place he's been. Here' hoping that Oprah's big fund raising event in Montecito will give him the boost he needs.

Governor Richardson, like Hillary, seems to also be moving up more and more, but I think he knows that Hillary probably has this thing in the bag already.

Congressman Kucinich will gain the most from Edward's undoing and good for him.

But, as it sits today, Hillary's campaign is so "together", so ready-for-prime time and so "on message" that even an entry by Al Gore, sadly, might now be too late.

I took a lot of flack here about my "flawless" tag regarding her campaign several months ago. Many of the comments challenging my insight were humorous and had me laughing at myself...

But...Hillary is about to walk away with the whole enchilada and that's why I'm not attacking her anymore. She is probably going to be the nominee of our party with Senator Obama as her VP.

Both Bill and Hillary Clinton win their elections. They trounce their opponents and always beat the odds. In 2008, we might just need that talent whether it's the full loaf we want or not.

And yes, I can support that ticket with enthusiasm against any Republican, any day and anywhere. I hope you can, too.

[liberalnurse]

1. Hillary is a "gift" to America.

Beautiful post. Thank You for the thought. O8)

[Exiled in America]

28. I'm ashamed to live in a country where anyone genuinely says that with a straight face. :(

[Breeze54]

53. wtf?

:puke:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

72. A flawless campaign. A flawed position

on so many important agendas. I cannot support her "values". Bought and paid for by our corporotocracy.

[saracat]

78. Hillary is a "gift to the GOP".They use her to motivate their base and raise funds!

[jgraz]

2. If only the candidate herself were as "flawless"

Wake me up when she has something of substance to say :boring:

[DemBones DemBones]

15. I agree. We won't get single payer health care if she wins.

I'm not sure what we would get and I'm afraid to find out, remembering her husband giving us NAFTA and welfare reform.

I don't think her ideas are far from Bill's.

[jgraz]

26. What exactly WILL we get if she wins?

Aside from screwed, that is.

[piedmont]

81. More shit like NAFTA, maybe?

She's great if you're into corporate rule.

[DemBones DemBones]

93. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. . . I wonder if

any of the "top tier" would restore the Constitution, repeal the PATRIOT Act, etc. Have any of them talked about it?

The main message of this campaign is that money is more important than experience. Biden, Dodd, and Kucinich all have more experience than Clinton, Edwards, or Obama.

I'm not sure about Gravel's experience other than one term in the Senate, like Edwards, and like Obama is in the middle of now.

Between being President of the Young REPUBLICANS at Wellesley and being elected to the Senate, Hillary was a First Lady in Arkansas and D.C.

[liberalnurse]

30. I believe she will focus on

what is a reasonable approach to the problem in healthcare....The insurance companies domination in delegating services. I believe her goal is to neuter them.....First thing is no pre-existing illness screening...always open enrollment.


More to follow....I got to run...sorry.

[eridani]

59. She tried that already.

It didn't work. She herself says that single payer is the best way to go, but is too gutless and too bought to actually do it.

[Colobo]

3. Hillary's supporters tactic: Discourage the others by saying they have no chance

Still, when it comes to fundraising, all that goes to hell...

[SoCalDem]

4. and yet, the public thought that hillary "came in 3rd" in the debate

:shrug:

I have no dog in this fight.. I will support whomever emerges as the candidate, but as a thinking adult who has been voting a LONG TIME, I know that they are ALL saying what they think we want to hear, so they can get elected..

What they do , once IN office, is basically all about securing their own futures, and the futures of their friends & family.. They ALL do it.

if a side effect is that some good comes along for the rest of us, that's great, but it's NOT their first and foremost goal:)

[cynatnite]

10. Is there a poll that said that?

Have a link?

[SoCalDem]

12. just something I saw on MSRNC or CNN when they were talking to their focus groups

:)

[cynatnite]

20. Oh, okay...a focus group. thanks n/t

[Exultant Democracy]

23. I just watched the same thing, the pundits have already called it,

but all evidence indicates that the pundits don't know jack. Once the races heats up more and more people will be seeing what the focus groups did.

[David Zephyr]

18. I agree.

SoCalDem, that's pretty much what I'm saying. You and many here know that Hillary is not my first, second or third choice and that I've hit her hard over Iraq since 2003, but I've got to give it up to her and how well she is running her campaign.

John McCain ran through millions and plummeted in the polls and is nowhere. John Edwards is now doing pretty much the same thing. The Clintons are seasoned.

And, I gotta tell you, there is a part of me pulling for her when she gets attacked (not by the left) but by the right wing and misogynists. Maybe it's a misplaced defensive action in my quirky personality, but when Hilary hits back, I'm proud of her. And I know that would be a good thing in 2008.

[NMDemDist2]

5. agreed. she is cautious and careful and on message

which is why she gets so little respect here on DU. DUers like dangerous and outrageous but that's not wins elections

:hi:

edit to add this disclaimer

I'm not a Hillary supporter, or any candidate supporter at this point. I am feeling the heat to jump onboard somewhere since I have less than 6 months to Super Tuesday.

[knight_of_the_star]

6. Not buying what you're selling

Let me know when Hillary takes the lead on any issue then I might possibly be interested. Just hope it isn't video game violence.

[wicket]

11. Or flag burning

[illinoisprogressive]

7. And billary are old, tired and the country is so tired of them.

[MichiganVote]

24. I think people are more tired of this admin. and republicans in general

[ThomWV]

8. Alternate Universe?

[cynatnite]

9. You are correct...

No mistakes so far and she has a history of making sure there aren't any. She's in the lead in the polls and on the money. If she's still doing this well six months from now I will believe she has the nomination tied up. There is still too much that can happen between now and then.

Obama is doing okay, but I think he's going to be permanently stuck in second place. I don't think he'll go up or down. If he gets enough of primary votes especially from the south, I think he may be Hillary's pick for VP. IMO, she'd be wise to pick him because as a team, they'd be completely unbeatable.

Richardson impressed me more last night than on other occasions. He did much better, IMO, and I think his support will grow, too.

Edwards...well, I'm not a big fan of his these days because I haven't liked how he's ran his campaign over the last several months. It's a little too much pandering for my taste. I thought the comment about Hillary's wardrobe was a little tacky, but not a big deal. Kucinich and Biden held their own. I don't care for Gravel much so he's inconsequential to me.

Regardless of how anyone feels about Hillary, she is a tough smart woman who isn't afraid to deal whatever the repukes throw at her. I highly doubt she'll sit back like Kerry did while she's swiftboated. Kerry is a good man and I respect the hell out of him, but looking back on that, he should have hit back hard and not waited so long.

After the last several years I think the dems are finally starting to get their spine back. It's been slow and the repukes had to do some imploding, but to see a good strong field of candidates like this is wonderful. I look forward to the next year because it will be an exciting campaign, IMO.

[David Zephyr]

14. You make some valid observations that should not be overlooked.

You point out, and I agree that you "highly doubt she'll sit back like Kerry did while she's swiftboated." That's a solid point and that's a good thing, too.

[Yukari Yakumo]

43. What is there left to swiftboat? {nt}

[durrrty libby]

13. She is phenomenal. Nice post and pic. Thank you

[cally]

16. I'm beginning to think she will be the nominee and the next Pres.

Her campaign and poise have impressed me. She seems Presidential. I personally support Edwards but I'm beginning to agree with your analysis.

[David Zephyr]

19. "impressed me"

Yeah, that's how I feel. I want to win in 2008 and damn it, Hillary knows how to play ball better than the rest of these guys (including the Republicans). She is running a great campaign and doesn't get baited into making mistakes...and boy, is she ever baited. Thanks for your comments, cally.

[Exiled in America]

31. I think she will be the nominee, the next president, and it will be as bad as Bush.

Just different.

For two elections we've had the kind of bad that is a violent kind of bad. Under the neo-liberalist, "new" democratic leadership of Clinton, we'll return to the much more insidious kind of bad. The march of corporatocracy will continue on unabated. The expansion of exploitative trade in the name of "free" trade will continue. "Globalization" aka trans-national corporate empire and poor exploitation will continue to grow. Our economic policy will be pretty much like it was under Clinton I, with the MSM and anyone too ignorant to know their facts boasting of an "amazing" economic that only affected the wealthy and the stock market (investors in the market make up 20% of the total US population) while ordinary American's wages stagnated or decline for the decade. During this era of record breaking corporate profits, our own government released a report (GAO report readily available on the internet) stating that 61% of all US based corporations paid zero taxes, and of those corporations that did pay taxes, after all their tax breaks and loopholes, they paid about 11% - some of the lowest rates out there.

The pro-corporation, pro-worker exploitation system that is the clintonian vision, all we are going to do is trade the kind of abuse we tolerate by our leaders. To me, that is every bit as unacceptable as the Bush presidency.

[Desertrose]

38. I hope you're wrong, but tend to agree with you...plus

the idea of only two families in the WH for the last 5 terms...6 or 7 if Hillary wins? I just have to believe that somewhere in this country, there has to be some other people equally, if not more capable of running the country.

We DO need a change and I have a feeling Hillary is not what we need.Wish I felt differently.....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. Be As Bad As Bush? Ummmmmm Yeah. Okey Dokey Pokey.

:crazy:

[mistertrickster]

66. Good post. I totally agree. These corporate Democrats aren't as bad

as Republicans, they just aren't a real alternative to the status quo.

And the status quo is KILLING US people--pollution, global warming, global WAR, foreign oil, stay-the-course technology, welfare for the rich, socialize the costs and privatize the profits.

[DemBones DemBones]

94. I think you're right. The neo-liberal, "new Democrat" schtick is

old Republicanism. Goldwater Girl Hillary met moderate Dem Bill and they figured out how to triangulate the Democratic Party into a party with the tired old motto "What's good for business is good for America."
GOP Lite. Nicer than the GOP on its face, but talk to the people kicked off welfare and trained to mop floors -- saw this on a documentary once, black welfare moms being trained to mop floors -- now that's job training! :sarcasm: Talk to the people whose jobs have been transported to other countries in order to exploit cheap labor.

When the GOP and the Dems support exploiting cheap labor, something is seriously wrong with the Dems.

[politicasista]

17. Looks like everyone has found the perfect candidates (no sarcasm)

No really.

I don't have a candidate yet, but will vote for the nominee.

I understand we long for someone perfect to save us from eight years of this criminal administration. I say good luck to those that have a candidate and hope you will enjoy working hard for her/him.

[onecent]

21. Nice Post. She will have my vote!

[emilyg]

25. And mine!

[Toasterlad]

22. Call Me Behind the Times, But I Still Don't Think She Can Win the General.

I'll vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is, but I hope it's not Hillary. I don't think this America will elect a woman president...PARTICULARLY not HRC.

[redherring]

27. I agree with you

Initially, I was supporting Obama, but the more I think about it, the more I like Hillary Clinton. She also seems to know what she's talking about, and she hardly ever makes any gaffes. People have hurled all sorts of nasty things at her, and because of that, she's battle-hardened, unlike any of the other candidates. She has had to deal with being attacked for what, 20 years? She's one tough woman, and I hope she is the next president of the United States.

[judaspriestess]

29. She is not my first choice but I will support her if she gets the nod

She was pretty darn good yesterday. I thought she looked really good too. Her choice in color for her attire was very complimentary.

[LSK]

32. Edwards has over $10million in the bank and was leading Iowa

Thats on the ropes???

:wtf:

[benny05]

36. Yeah really

I agree with you LSK. This post is hogwash. Clinton's negatives are very high among all voters. We have to think who is going to be most electable in the general election, and it's not going to be Clinton. The MSM are dying for another blood bath.

[JacquesMolay]

54. then why do so many people feel like Hilary Clinton is being forced down their throat ....

... n/t

[benny05]

89. Because of the MSM n/t

[David Zephyr]

40. Well, let's watch from this moment on: I say he's peaked.

He's as high as he'll ever be. I like John, but he's run out of gas.

[LSK]

41. I dont know, I think hes just laying back because he knows its early

Hes not going to fire all his bullets now.

[Forkboy]

42. Tough to tell in the summer.

All the candidates are holding back right now.They all know that people are doing everything but paying attention in the summer.Wait until after Labor Day and then the campaign really begins in earnest.

[mnhtnbb]

97. Not with 150,000 hits on his youtube Hair video. BTW, Hillary's was

the poorest excuse for an ad I've ever seen. No mistakes, huh? Baloney.

On edit: oops, hits closing on 163,000 for the Hair video.

[Yukari Yakumo]

45. For the latter... depend on what poll you read.

The best I could give him is that he half-controls Iowa. (HRC controls the other half. All others fall below the 15% minimum.) For as much as he spent in Iowa, that is terrible.

Nationally, Edwards is often a distant third and, in many states, falls below the 15% threshold to earn candidates in the primaries.

Oh, and both BO and HRC each have triple the warchest JE has.

[hiaasenrocks]

33. Flawless, from a PR standpoint....maybe.

But she's also valueless, with no central theme or rationale for being President. She'll say anything in front of anybody, depending upon the audience, and she tries to take every side of every issue. As for Obama, well, when someone manages to slog through his meandering non-answers, let me know.

Edwards is the only candidate with such a central theme and message. There's a reason he doesn't get much attention from the conservative MSM and noise machine while Hillary and Obama get airtime on those so-called news and opinion outlets. They want Hillary and/or Obama because that's a sure victory for the right-wingers in the general election.

[KoKo]

34. Folks are starting to get comfortable with the "Hillary" Brand Name...

and her handlers/marketing folks have done great re-packaging the Reviled Clinton to turn it into "HILLARY!"

But...you know...it's GOOD to have her around while the Bushies IMPLODE! It give a "continuity" to Government..in that folks think she's the one they can turn to because she and Bill have already done this...and at least there's an experienced hand guiding the American Ship of State...even if folks might not like her...be uncomfortable with her...or hold grudges.

The Re-Elect Bill Campaign is wonderful Stealth Brand Management.

But...I AM glad she's running. Waiting for Gore..here..though...

[dsc]

35. a couple of things

First, Edwards isn't on the ropes. He still leads in Iowa, still is raising enough money to take advantage of Iowa, and is helped by some of the early states. He should do well in SC, NV, and FL all of which vote before super duper Tues.

Second, both Hillary and Obama have been frozen in terms of support and Obama is surely going to have the money to compete. If Edwards really is on the ropes then Obama will gain. Both because he will be the anti Hillary vote and because he is strong in both SC and Iowa where Edwards is strong.

Third, Richardson did finally do well in a debate. Thank God. Frankly he, and not Obama would likely be a Hillary VP. He also would be good balance for Edwards or Obama.

Finally, I remember how well Dean was doing and lets just say the season is young. Hillary is clearly running an amazing campaign. I hope she keeps it up. If she wins with it we will need it and if she loses whoever wins will be ready.

[Cha]

37. You're absolutely

correct..it's way too soon to tell.

[David Zephyr]

46. A couple of more things...

1.) Face it: Edwards is on the ropes. In national polls he has continued to spiral down now for months on months. That's hardly the sort of momentum one needs just 5 months from the contests. Iowa is about all that he has left and if the NEA endorses Hillary (they will), then he will lose Iowa, too. But, I will bookmark this thread and we can match notes in a few months. I'm confident in what I wrote which is why I posted it. By the way, I admire your loyalty to John. But unless Hillary really makes a slip up (like John seems to continue to make), then this race is about over.

2.) You write: "If Edwards really is on the ropes then Obama will gain." I'm certain he will pick up some of that support, but in my OP I said "Congressman Kucinich will gain the most from Edward's undoing and good for him." Time will tell who is right.

3.) I've posted here many times that Richardson debates well and in my OP wrote: "Governor Richardson, like Hillary, seems to also be moving up more and more..."

And, yes, we will need a disciplined machine to beat the GOP. DU's Cynatnite said as much in his post #9 saying that Hillary, unlike John Kerry, will sit by and be swiftboated. And swiftboating will come as sure as the sun will rise.

Hillary would have a tough choice between Richardson and Obama for VP because they both bring a lot of multi-dimensional positives to a ticket.

Finally, I'm happy to hear you also say that "Hillary is clearly running an amazing campaign." That's the point of my entire OP and the earlier one several months ago when I said her campaign up to then was "flawless". It was and still is. And that may be the very thing we will need.

[dsc]

87. I think it would depend on when Edwards actually faded

At some point this race, like all other races, will become front runner anti front runner. In this case it will be Hillary/anti Hillary. Obama is clearly going to be around late enough to become the anti Hillary. Kucinich won't win, everyone knows he won't win, and thus he won't be the anti Hillary. Obama also has kept his anti war credentials largely intact so many Edwards voters can safely park their votes with him.

As to Richardson I am glad he is a good debater I was honestly wondering about that. He was down right terrible in one, barely passible in another, and finally good last night. His MTP appearence was awful. I am still making up my mind between Richardson and Edwards and probably will be undecided for a time. Richardson needs to show me an ability to express himself in debates and interviews while Edwards needs to overcome my fear he is saying what we want to hear vs what he really believes.

[Yukari Yakumo]

49. Really

In case you haven't noticed, there is a distinct lack of purple on the map. Meaning he's beneath the 15% threshold to get delegates. In the 5 lead-off states, the only one he appears in is Iowa.

[Imagevision]

39. Hillary's flawless? - Hil blew it bigtime when she said she wouldn't promise to

speak with Iran,Syria etc. in her first year in office, while Obama stated talking to other countries is essential to communications with other world leaders. So what do we have but another Bus-head with the same "I refuse to talk to other countries" that is totally lame!

A leader lays the cards on the table and establishes a clear-cut vision of where he's coming from!!

[cynatnite]

44. She chose not to make a campaign promise she couldn't keep...

and I agreed with what she said. She never refused to talk to them. She just wouldn't promise to do it in the first year in order to get votes. She laid out how she viewed it should be done which is with high level envoys, knowing beforehand what to expect and being able to move forward from there. She gave a smart answer, I thought.

[Skip Intro]

nah, that's not what she said - she didn't refuse to talk to them

she just refused to promise a leader to leader meeting would take place in the first year, and then went on to elaborate on different level meetings and diplomacy being pursued in the most logical and potentially advantageous - read effective - way while determining much about the sincerity of the other parties by their actions in that process.

Obama's gonna meet the leaders of all of those countries, in his first year, regardless? He's going to promise to do that?

I think he ignored the words "first year in office" and went on to indicate his willingness to meet with those leaders, probably at some point - he did not think his answer through, and he's stubbornly sticking to it today. Hillary's answer was better. It just was. I now question Obama's ability - maturity, to do the best thing. We're in a mess militarily, domestically, diplomatically - we can't afford sloppy mistakes now. I hate to say this, because I know I"m pissing some people off royally. But it's the way I see it. The longer he fights this battle (the one with Hill over this issue) the worse he's going to come out of it. That happened, move on. That's what he should do now. He's not going to come out on top of this.

[yodermon]

47. Duh.

Of course she'll be the nominee, and the next pres.
Since dubya & the neocons ran the repukes into the ground, the corp.'s have decided that she'll be the most profitable.
cha-ching!
:toast:

[HughMoran]

48. She did/is doing well as you stated, but your analysis is entirely biased too

Your analysis doesn't even seem to match the polling data where Edwards is trouncing Richardson and Kucinich. I detect a note of wishful thinking here - Edwards is a bigger threat that you expected huh?

[David Zephyr]

51. Trouncing Richardson and Kucinich is hardly something for Edwards to brag about.

They are not even on the ropes. At this point, it's Obama and Clinton unless Gore gets in...and I'm beginning to believe he won't do it.

[HughMoran]

52. OK my backpedalling soothsayer

Mixed messages about Edwards being on the ropes and looking over his shoulder and then the obvious statement that Obama and Hillary have nothing to worry about (duh) ensure my feeling about your extremely biased analysis.

[Jim Sagle]

50. Mark Penn, is that you?

:boring:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Gotta Say, The Two Winners Last Night Were Hillary And Biden.

In my opinion, the two of them were in a separate league then the rest.

I thought Hillary's responses were flawless in delivery and she continues to impress me with how well she is handling herself under pressure. She is very quick, concise and sharp.

But Biden, who I once had little enthusiasm for, has actually begun to impress me. Each debate that passes he leaves a better impression on me. He handled himself tremendously last night and came off as quite intelligent, sincere and capable. I'm gonna continue to keep my eye on him, and will pick him out right now as someone who may very well surprise people in the polls by this time next year.

But I was a bit disappointed with Obama, since for the first time I'd have to say I did see clear signs he is not yet ready. Edwards, though really good in his own ways and quite capable, is just quite simply missing something that I can't quite put my finger on. Dodd, well, he means well and all, but he just seems like he was meant to be a Senator. Kucinich literally weirded me out with his whole dial peace thing, as it just came off as one of the silliest and borderline mentally ill things I've ever seen in these debates. And Gravel, well, cracks me the fuck up actually. Some of his one liners last night were just spot on in timing. He's refreshing to listen to, but ain't no president.

In the end of it though, I thought Hillary won and thought Biden was extremely impressive. I can't wait for the next one.


On edit: Jesus. I totally forgot Richardson. Guess that speaks volumes huh. I was quite disappointed in him and thought he fell totally flat on almost everything. I always heard such good things about him, but I just haven't seen it yet.

[Major Hogwash]

76. Why, because they both stated that we can't pull our troops out of Iraq in 6 months?

Which is total 100% bullshit.

I won't be casting a vote for either one of those lying clowns now as a result.

[cynatnite]

86. Why is it bullshit? n/t

[eridani]

57. Less of a disaster for working Americans than a Repub--

--but not by much. Don't expect us to be cheering.

[BlooInBloo]

60. I know right? 92% progressive voting record - that's THIS close to being a republican!

DUers slay me. :rofl:

[eridani]

64. The 8% consists of the things that really count

War, outsourcing jobs, health care. Nice that she supports reproductive rights, but that doesn't compensate for having your standard of living completely trashed.

[Malikshah]

58. Gee, it's been on the move since..at least Jan 2004 and at most,

Dec 2000.

Not like it wasn't planned.

More's the pity for the American people.

A whole chicken coop's worth of eggs were broken to make this omelet

[Semper_FiFi]

61. I have not decided on whom I will vote for...

but I have to say that I was impressed with Hillary. She was definitely very presidential. I have some issues with her, however, and I hope that as her campaign develops, those issues will be resolved.

[David Zephyr]

63. Welcome to the DU.

:hi:

[Semper_FiFi]

91. Hello, David Zephir...

nice to meet you.:hi:

[SeattleGirl]

67. I also have issues with her, but I will absolutely support her if she

indeed wins the nomination.

And welcome to DU. I love your user name! :hi:

[Semper_FiFi]

92. Same here, SeattleGirl...

I, too, will vote for the nominee. I don't believe we can afford to sit on our hands if our own personal favorite fails to win the nomination. Any one of the Democrats currently running and any other Democrat who may choose to run will be an improvement for America. A republican victory will be the last nail in the coffin for our civil liberties and who knows how much irreversible damage has been done by the current regime.

Thank you for the welcome, SeattleGirl...I like your name as well. :hi:

[Mind_your_head]

62. Ick!!!! eom

[mistertrickster]

65. Cool. Having Hillary nominated will be almost like having a Democrat in the race.

Maybe she could pair up with Leiberman.

The best ticket MONEY CAN BUY, I tell you what.

On edit--Bill was the best REPUBLICAN president we ever had . . .

[IndyOp]

68. Absolutely - with Hillary we'll be able to have the truly OVERPOWERING military we've always wanted

:puke:

[Californian Dreamer]

69. Hillary would do well as president...

...But not well enough. She wouldn't bring the fight against the corporate interests and globalization, she wouldn't go far enough to save the environment, and she wouldn't take down big phrama to save our healthcare system.

Not on her own, she wouldn't.

But that's ok, because we still can make it all happen. We can reclaim our voice, and the sanity of this nation, and direct our leaders in the right direction no matter who those leaders are. I think its important to remember that the first step is to take back the reigns of power from those who have it now by any means, and then we can work to ensure that our own people use it right.

As for our own favorite candidates, they and their message won't just disappear because they aren't president. At least, so long as we don't give up on them either.


(But nonetheless... Gore/Kucinich '08! :))

[saracat]

70. We apparently saw a different debate! Hillary is an emotionless autamaton with the

charm of a small soap dish! Ewards won the debate by reflecting genuine passion and concern for his fellow man.Obama was cool and nimble.Biden was fervent.I will vote for Hillary in the general if she gets the nomination but I haven't any enthusiam for her.

[hatrack]

71. Great, so I can just stop thinking, gathering information and researching candidates and platforms

And all of it 16 months before the general election - thanks, David Zephyr, for helping prevent me from wasting all of that time and energy!!

:eyes:

[Marr]

73. The GOP wants to run against Hillary Clinton.

She's the only thing that could get their base out to the polls at this point. That's why the corporate media is selling her as a candidate. On top of that, she's a DLC DiNO.

Why should we risk everything for a chance to gain nothing?

[lonestarnot]

74. If she is the nominee, you fucking betcha!

:toast: Here's to Hillary and Big Dog in the White House again, but Dennis is still my man!

[JohnLocke]

75. "His comments about Hillary's attire" - it was a joke!

[NancyG]

77. I'm getting more and more impressed with Hillary,

and even believing that she could win the presidency.

She has really worked on modulating her voice, so the RW won't call her shrill.

She appears presidential.

I'd have liked Gore and/or Clark, but warming up to a Hill.

I see her with Richardson or Clark or Obama as her running mate.

Please, please, someone with a 'D' after her/his name winning the presidency.

And please bring me universal health care. Being self-employed and getting older is a bitch.

[Zomby Woof]

79. I have said many times on here

Regardless of one's personal feelings about her, regardless of one's political opinions of her - she is a formidable candidate and NOT to be underestimated under ANY circumstances.

[Richard Steele]

80. As flawless as all the polished plastic a corporation can buy. nm

[1932]

82. All the spinning in that post is making me dizzy!

[LittleClarkie]

83. I just bought this bumper sticker from a libertarian

[roamer65]

95. OMG...LOL...I just about ruined a keyboard.

:rofl:

I want one of those stickers!

[alfredo]

84. Her performance lends weight to what people have said for years-

She's the political powerhouse of the family/

[LibDemAlways]

85. Hillary is up in the polls because she's been sold as

the inevitable Dem candidate by the corporate media for two years already. People want to vote for the perceived "winner" of the nomination, and the repukes and their shills in the media are doing everything in their power to make sure she gets the nom.

Then, when they turn on her with a vengeance and a fury, slinging every bit of new mud they've been quietly gathering for many months, it's going to be very, very ugly. They are building her up only so they can take great pleasure in destroying her. She's tough, and may withstand it, but it's likely to be brutal.

[B Calm]

88. I have to admit David Zephyr, you have a sense of humor posting this!

[dionysus]

90. can i get a hit of what you're smoking? must be some good shit...

[roamer65]

96. She'll have my vote, but...

sorry, but no excitement over Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. My whole Democratic leaning family agrees with me. She turns them very luke warm. Edwards and Gore are the two biggest winners in family.