John Conyers is no Martin Luther King by Ray McGovern

[proud2BlibKansan]

What do Rep. John Conyers, D-Michigan, chair of the House Committee on the Judiciary, and President George W. Bush have in common? They both think they can dis Cindy Sheehan and count on gossip columnists like the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank to trivialize a historic moment.

I’ll give this to President Bush. He makes no pretence when he disses. He would not meet with Sheehan to define for her the “noble cause” for which her son Casey died or tell her why he had said it was “worth it.”

Conyers, on the other hand, was dripping with pretence as he met with Sheehan, Rev. Lennox Yearwood and me Monday in his office in the Rayburn building. I have seldom been so disappointed with someone I had previously held in high esteem. And before leaving, I told him so.

Throwing salt in our wounds, he had us, and some 50 others in his anteroom arrested and taken out of action as the Capitol Police “processed” us for the next six hours.

As we began our discussion with Conyers, it was as though he thought we were “born yesterday,” as Harry Truman would put it. With feigned enthusiasm he began, Let’s hold a Town Hall meeting in Detroit so we can talk about impeachment. Get out my schedule; let’s see, we need to hear from everyone about this.

Been there, done that, I reminded the congressman.

more . . .
http://consortiumnews.com/2007/072407a.html

[Mojorabbit]

1. Pretty harsh......eom

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. When did he say "worth it?"

What's the story behind that?

[UTUSN]

3. Why did he sign the letter "With respect"? He clearly doesn't have any.

And, while Ray is on the same side we all are on, when Ray et al. spend more time attacking Dems, they are acting just like Shrub: "You're either for us or against us." Stubborn as Shrub. What part of 218 is not clear? Yes, I *do* love purists for their purity, but it's Hades to be married to.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. "Why should we support Democrats who support the war just because

they are NOT Republicans who support the war?"

My favorite Cindy Sheehan quote.

No we are NOT all on the same side. We used to be, but no more. I am on the side that opposes corporatist war mongering politicians. Sadly, there are Democrats in that club.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. We don't have the votes... DLC talking point

we have the presidency sown in, DLC talking point

Here is mine... The Constitution and the Republic, or Empire, that is your choice

[LittleClarkie]

17. Conyers is not DLC

by any stretch.

[UTUSN]

28. Ha-HAH!!1 "talking point"!!1 It is just SO amusing whenever THAT gets flung at me!!1

I barely have time to skim even the threads in GD/DU that I reply to, much less time to READ, STUDY, and SPOUT anybody else's "talking points"!!1

(No need for the "sarcasm" niblet or icon or whatever it's called, is there? : ) Yaas, I can be pictured late into the night snatching "talking points" from some kind of machine (I don't know how to hook up the FAX on my scanner, btw) and ruining my poor eyes and quaffing something caffeine-laden (I can't have caffeine because of its heart-mummuring qualities)---oh, I'm shooting so many holes in my cover story!!1

But, pal nadinbrzezinski, although I barely remember more than about half a dozen DU names, I seem to remember that you and I have agreed with each other on something-or-other, so CHEERS to the NEXT time it happens!!1

[EFerrari]

15. Because he was angry?

[Karenina]

30. Yup, Ray is ANGRY. With good reason.

The stakes are high.

[John Q. Citizen]

38. ANd when Conyers talks out of two sides of his mouth on impeachment he's

acting just like a Dem?

Or what?

[femrap]

5. That's depressing....I thought

Conyers really wanted to Impeach these criminals. WTF is going on?

[groovedaddy]

8. Maybe they are worried that if the "house of bush" crumbles

that much else will fall with it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. BINGO!

Same reason Kerry didn't challenge the election in 2004.

What do they have to hide?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I wish I knew

I have some crazy theories but I honestly don't really know what Conyers is thinking.

[femrap]

33. I have some crazy ideas as well....

this regime is so evil...I would put nothing past it. I wonder about those anthr*x attacks after 9/11. Was that a message to the Dems? The Media?

I remember that first meeting in the basement of the Capital where both Cindy and McGovern testified...along w/ John Bonifaz...Hell, I taped it. It was the first time Cindy had met Conyers.

Is Conyers just getting off on the attention? Does he care at all about our Democracy? The Constitution?

Sometimes I wonder if this regime will ever cede power...or will there be a false flag operation and these private Blackwater types will be riding around everywhere. When people say that is crazy, I say look at what happened in Germany in the 1930's...who would have thought of that?

Maybe I better go get some sleep...it has been a long day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. There is a certain point

that people need to do, or step out of the damn way

[Enrique]

9. I'm disappointed that McGovern focussed on Conyers's age so much

I've been nothing but impressed with McGovern, but those comments about Conyers's age are so vile and unfair and unreasonable.

He was obviously pissed about what happened today, possibly with good reason, but he should have cooled down before writing that. I expect he will apologize.

[ellacott]

16. That disappointed me also

McGovern is not a young guy himself.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. I'm disappointed that Conyers is so afraid of FOX. He trembles at the very name...

[KoKo]

11. That's a devastating read......

I don't even know what to say about it. Contradicts his needed three more to impeach that we were told over the weekend. ...

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Proves he is just a politician

and not the hero he has been made out to be.

[mmonk]

13. I understand Ray but he isn't supposed to be.

He wanted his position in the new House majority and it came with a price. Doesn't mean it can't swing our way though.

[Zodiak]

18. Is this the story that people are frothing at the mouth about?

My god, I just came from a thread by a prominent DUer cursing up a storm at Cindy supporters over this article.

It really isn't all that surprising since the author was arrested and booked for six hours by the guy he was looking to represent all of us and defend the Constitution.

I do not care what anyone says, one cannot ascribe motives to anyone with any degree of certainty. We do not know that Cindy has altruistic motiives, nor do we know Conyers has. It is ridiculous for anyone to be certain about one or both of their real motives behind recent actions.

So all of the "attention whore", "all about me", "only out for himself" crap I have been seeing both sides use is pure unsubstantiated rhetoric.

Here is another...hating on a person for mentioning that the Democrats were the party of slavery. Last I checked, it was a historical fact. If one is to use it as a talking point against another, make sure it is a lie first. Avoiding unpleasant history is a mark of partisanship, which turns off the average American, and it is a characteristic of freepers.



What everyone is trying to avoid in their gutter-sniping and attacks is that our party is fracturing because of a disconnect between the base and its representatives. If this is allowed to continue by digging in and holding stubborn while pissing on the other side, then this party will fracture.

We have a lot of talking to do about our future as a party, and this tasteless rhetoric is only sowing divisions between us.

These are the facts on the ground:

1. The Democratic base wants impeachment. They want uot of the Iraq war now.
2. A majority of Americans want the same on both counts.
3. There has been little movement on either front and the signals coming from Washington are the opposite of the wil of the People and the Democratic base.
4. There is an election coming up where party unity is paramount in order to overcome a rigged election system (either through machine tabulation or malfeasance by the DOJ).

Tell me, is it the best strategy to leave this issue gap at this juncture when the entire party needs unity? You are not going to get it from going against the will of the People or the party base...the People no longer want to be led. No number is trending downward for impeachment or exiting Iraq.

So why this strategy of avoiding conflict? Avoiding risk?

Why is this division between the Democratic representatives and their base allowed to exist? It seems monumentally stupid to me. You cannot control the Cindy Sheehans of this country...they are a force of nature created by bad policy. What a REAL good politician does is use these forces of nature to their advantage.

[ellacott]

19. Your post is full of wisdom n/t

[groovedaddy]

22. The Democratic Party united?

Read enough posts here at DU and you should readily conclude "our" party is not united and probably never has been. We are the "Big Tent" party and will probably never be united on all major issues.
The g.o.p. tends to be more united because of its narrow aims and appeals to the lowest sort of mentality but even that unity is now cracking up. Why? Because the g.o.p.'s support of business (the bigger, the better) had their leaders turn a blind eye on illegal immigration. Now a large part of their base is pissed at them over it.
Around the issues of Iraq and Impeachment, the Dem base seems united. Our political leadership, however, seems to be working from some other agenda rather than paying attention to what we want.
Are they scared? Politically, yes, because they know that there is a slim chance that impeachment could blowback on them. I tend to agree that this will not happen if they proceed, just as the repubs who didn't want to impeach Nixon changed their minds as the evidence mounted. There is way more evidence here to mount and I have to believe that many republicans don't want the public image of supporting criminals!

[Zodiak]

24. Thanks for the reply

I agree that we are normally like herding cats, but the poll numbers are not lying. On these two issues Democrats are united, and there is a fair amount of independent suport for ending the Iraq war and impeachment...with the numbers continuing to trends upwards. When the public is +50% on any issue, that includes a lot of Independents.

So why defy the entire base when you need them for this very important election? Especially since that election is the stated reason for the inaction? Makes no sense.

I know they are averse to the political risk of failing to convict, and their fear is not misplaced. The spin machine is relentless, but the spin machine no longer has the hold it used to on the people, and that hold is dwindling.

The consequences of inaction carry a considerably higher risk, both politically and for the future of this country. Why be averse to a smaller risk in the now and take on an even bigger risk in the near future when the poltical landscape is uncertain?

I really want to know who is advising our reps and what advise they are giving them.

[groovedaddy]

26. Besides that, Impeachment, simply put, is the right thing to do!

These bastards are criminals and should be brought to justice. Impeachment, at this point, seems to be the only possibility for justice. Anyone who doesn't support it either doesn't know or doesn't care.

[LWolf]

31. Good points.

:thumbsup:

[marions ghost]

36. Excellent post, zodiak...

As you say: "Why is this division between the Democratic representatives and their base allowed to exist? It seems monumentally stupid to me. You cannot control the Cindy Sheehans of this country...they are a force of nature created by bad policy. What a REAL good politician does is use these forces of nature to their advantage."

I have to agree--they are stupid to alienate the base, and it's not necessary IMO.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. I just posted this by David Swanson who was there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1422310

This part of the account by David Swanson was outstanding.

What was Conyers' objection to moving forward on impeachment now? Well, he said, if he were to do that Fox News would go after him and accuse him of being partisan. I kid you not. The Democratic Chairman of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee is basing his decisions on whether a Republican cable TV station would approve. As Cindy Sheehan told me outside the jail last night: "If I based my decisions on Fox, I would never do anything."

From what I have seen of Conyers since he became of the Chair of the Judiciary Committee, and what he was like before, I believe he has either been threatened, blackmailed or promised something. He is not the same man that gave us hearings on election fraud and on the Downing Street Memo.

[applegrove]

21. MLK was a leader outside the establishment. Conyers is a politicians

and a decent one at that. They are different animals. You cannot turn one into the other (except for Gore if he runs). Totally different.

[Generator]

23. Maybe some should actually read the letter

I find it fascinating that what people are concerned with is that Conyers is no MLK. LIKE duh, there is only one of those anyway. Maybe Conyers will step up-maybe he's planning to, maybe not. But what's fascinating is that McGovern is really really concerned about Bush being cornered and starting another war. That's what upsets me. Always with the words, words, words. Me: I'm worried about the powers that Bush has.

[Guaranteed]

25. You can't go barging around someone's office and then get angry

if you get arrested when you won't leave.

I'm sorry, what makes John Conyers such a horrible person again?

[John Q. Citizen]

40. He's been talking out of both sides of his mouth on impeachment. Holding him

accounable is horrible why again?

I like Conyers. I always have. He's got a steller record, he's a good guy.

But how is holding him accountible wrong?

[RFKJr4PRES]

27. Martin Luther King Jr stood up to the establishment

He did not back down because he didn't think he could succeed.

[stirlingsliver]

29. Plus, MLK Knew He Had The MORAL High Ground

MLK knew he had the moral high ground.

He LED.

He did not just follow along.

And because he led, he won.

Sad that there are so few people like him today.

Cindy, of course, is one such person.

[Sparkly]

32. So this is where the MLK Jr comparisons are coming from....

I was wondering.

[Nunyabiz]

34. I agree 100% with McGovern

He has every right to be disgusted with Conyers, its like the man has lost his mind completely.
All he can do is spew the Democrat talking point of "we don't have the votes" that is the biggest crock of shit.
The votes don't matter at all, its the DAMN LAW!!

[Senator]

35. K&R

[saracat]

37. Screw.Ray McGovern.He is no Conyers and doesn't deserve to be

even mentioned in the same sentence let alone in the same room with this man!

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Did Conyers talk out of two sides of his mouth about impeachment? But

that's OK because we all know that all Democrats talk out of both sides of their mouths. In fact that why we love them and are loyal to them?

i think your efforts to help your party are misguided and misdirected. You used to be effective, but I think you have been getting bad advice lately.

I like Conyers, I always have. He has a stellar record. But attacking people because they hold him accountable on his public statements regarding impeachment is counter productive.

We the people have a right and a need to hold our elected officials accountible. Your assertion that anybody who holds a Democrat accountible is persona non-grata is the fastest way to lose support for the party you claim to represent.

Just my opinion, but you are hurting the party more than helping it in this case.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. I Had Respected Ray McGovern, But Now Regard Him As An Intellectual Jackass.

He has lost his mind as much as the others have. Shame on all of them for their attacks on a man as honorable as John Conyers.

Let's have no doubts about it: This group has lost their minds and need to seek mental help. They have become irrational, unreasonable, illogical, delusional and misguided. I had once held them in the highest respect, but now, like most others, realize that their passion for their mission has overcome them to such irrational degrees that they have lost all sense of reasoning and intellect. It is quite sad to see their downward spiral from inspiration to utter madness. I hope they get the help they need and someday become mentally healthy and competent once again.

But for now, they have submitted to utter lunacy.