Four thoughts on Sheehan vs. Pelosi

[Bicoastal]

1. Activists make lousy politicians. Politicians make lousy activists. Just my observation.

2. In my mind, the Impeachment conundrum consists of 3 seperate questions.

I. Should Bush/Cheney be impeached by this congress?
II. CAN Bush/Cheney be impeached by this congress?
III. If we're unsure of the answer to II, is it worth trying to impeach them regardless?

The answer to the first questions is blindingly easy, the second tricky, and the third is a question for the ages. It pits the idealist against the pragmatist, the impossible dream against the inconvenient truth, the right thing to do against the smart thing to do. And I, for one am stumped. But it seems foolish for me to suppose that we could legislate our way out of Iraq AND try Bush and Cheney for crimes against the Constitution at the same time. (Ending the war IS the primary motivation behind Impeachment, right?) Either way, our troops will be staying in Iraq for a while...which sucks for them.

3. It can never be overstated that we Democrats are suckers for the underdog, and this rivalry proves it. We loved Pelosi and Conyers until they were in a position of power, and then 6 months later, many of us turned on them in favor of Mrs. Sheehan, who now seems like the true underdog in a battle against a Dem-run Congress. If Sheehan was elected to office, we'd anxiously wait for her to DO something--and when nothing did happen (and I honestly can't imagine a scenario where a lone Independent with bad blood between both parties sways an entire legislative body towards her way of thinking), we'd probably pine for Pelosi return, or perhaps some other up-and-coming politician/activist.

Sounds impossible? Just remember how many progressives disparaged John Kerry when he won the nomination, preferring Dean, Kucinich, and others who were less Moderate. It was lucky for him that he lost--he's now much more respected around these parts than he ever was in 2004. So Sheehan has everything to lose by winning and everything to win by losing--at the very least, you have to respect the risk she's taking. But...

4. For the record, I'm sick of both Nancy and Cindy's increasingly empty and windy rhetoric, respectively. There MUST be a logical middle ground--maybe Al Gore could help us out. He's usually right when it comes to this sort of thing.

[BuyingThyme]

1. 1. Which politician-activists are you observing?

2. Impeachment is off the table.
3. Pelosi has been the Democratic leader for over 4 years. She led us to war in Iraq. She is a miserable failure.
4. Al Gore?

[sandnsea]

2. Pelosi led us to war?

She's been the Dem leader for the last 4 years?? What?!?!?

[BuyingThyme]

4. That's correct. You wouldn't know it by the crap you read about her on DU would you?

[Hippo_Tron]

3. Actually, Pelosi voted against the IWR and got the majority of the House Dems to do so as well

Despite the fact that the Democratic Leader at the time, Dick Gephardt, voted for the IWR and got a nice rose garden photo op with Bush and Joementum.

[BuyingThyme]

5. She also voted against the blank check she wrote for Bush.

She's done it all.

[ellisonz]

13. Correct.

[Virginia Dare]

15. That's an old scab you just picked for me..

Gephardt should have showed some spine and stood up to Bush then. I was pissed beyond all reason when he didn't. If ANYBODY sold out, it was him.

[Bicoastal]

6. I have to go to bed now, but I'll answer these succinctly...

1. Ralph Nader comes immediately to mind. A brilliant activist, no doubt, but his run in 2000 had disastrous political consequences. He simply couldn't understand this, however, so he ran in 2004, even after the Green party dumped him.

2. I KNOW Impeachment is currently off the table--I'm just playing devil's advocate. Most people around HERE clearly wants it. Yeesh, isn't the possibility of impeachment the reason why we're even having this ongoing debate on Sheehan vs. Pelosi in the first place?

3. Ok, this one I really have to take issue with. "She led us to war in Iraq"--excuse me? How on earth is she responsible for that? Didn't Bush have a little bit more to do with that? And the Republican majority in both houses? And the Democrats who actually voted yes on the IWR? I'd merely call her ineffective--you're now blaming her for problems clearly beyond her control.

4. Yeah, Al Gore. He's not in favor of impeachment, so I'm guessing he wouldn't be in favor of Sheehan antagonizing Pelosi and Conyers either; however, he DOES badly want us out of Iraq. He also happens to have been on the right side of every major political issue since 2001. (And Gore, incidentally, has arguably been way more effective as an activist than a politician. Perhaps we need him in to remain in the Goracle role...but that's a different post.)

Look forward to your response tomorrow.

[BuyingThyme]

8. 1. Nader's run for office says nothing about activists' effectiveness as politicians.

2. Yes. Pelosi took impeachment off the table. It's a horrible crime against our democracy.
3. Yes, Bush had much more to do with leading us to war, but Pelosi did way too little. It's easy to forget, but the Democrats were silent for years. They had no leadership at all. We wanted them to speak truth, but they had nothing to offer. They had Pelosi.
4. Al Gore is a Party man. He will support the Party girl.

[fasttense]

7. Does anyone else find it strange that we beat up Democratic Leaders for

Not getting us out of a war that the radical right republicans got us into?

The other day I saw a conservative republican pundit blaming the Democratic leadership for not getting us out of a war he and his supporters got us into.

The war is not the Democrats fault. It is one huge mess created by the Republicans. Their political leader, crazy king george, wont get them out of a war of their choosing and somehow they turn around and blame the Democrats. I find this very weird.

[BuyingThyme]

10. With VERY FEW exceptions, the Democrats were silent for years.

All but VERY FEW were silent until a bunch of them jumped in front of the anti-war parade in the 2006 election cycle. We have to let them know that this is not what leadership is about.

[depakid]

11. "the radical right republicans got us into?"

Were it all so simple.

Of course, the far right is where the most of the blame lies- but it wouldn't have been possible without an unaccountable corporate media- which was a contrivance most of the Democratic party went along with and actually supported on their own

The whole thing would be funny if it wasn't such a tragedy. It reminds me of when my stepdaughter got in trouble one time. Yep- she was running with a "bad crowd." and yep- there were a couple of "ringleaders. But they all went along with it just the same and sure enough, when called to account, everyone tried to put the blame on a few bad apples.

The judge didn't buy it- and (true as it may have been) neither did her Mom and I.

[radfringe]

9. if Sheehan's purpose to run against Pelosi

is to get impeachment on the table - well, even if Sheehan wins - bush/cheney will be gone by then

sorry - but it's like opening an umbrella after the rain has stopped

[Bitwit1234]

12. If Sheenan wants to run that's her choice.

But I don't think she could win even the democratic nomination. I think she is needed as the conscience of this country. I think she needs to keep on getting involved in letting this country know what the bush administration has done to our great country. We should never ever forget it and never ever let one of those type of republicans ever gain office again.

[midnight]

14. I know what you mean. All this talking needs to be backed up

with some action. I guess that's why I'm struck by the courage that Cindy continues to show with her actions. Can you imagine going to an elected official office who's job it is to follow the constitution. In this case, arrest the Bush and Co. for breaking the law. Man o Man that takes some strength to walk in their and put your self on the line for what was most likely a known outcome. Most of us here know that nothing will happen for years. That is unless we can become as active as Cindy. And by the way John Kerry Won.

[mondo joe]

16. I wish Sheehan would just go ahead and run. She won't win or spoil it for Pelosi,

but it would make her have to at least come up with a set of positions of her own.

[Virginia Dare]

17. Good points Bicoastal..

1) Absolutely correct

2) Cheney should be impeached just on a matter of principle. I think he absolutely CAN, as the Repukes probably are desperately searching for a scapegoat at this point. It's probably worth a try, nothing to lose really. I just don't see impeachment being a big issue for anybody but the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party. Most other Democrats would like to see it, but it's not a deal breaker for them.

3) Yes, after being out of "power" for so long, to many people were expecting miracles. Washington moves slowly. Watching the Democratic process play out is like watching a movie in slow motion.

4) Washington is all about rhetoric, you just have to learn to see through it and understand what's really going on behind all of the words. I don't think Al Gore is the answer to all of our problems either, see your statement #3.

:-)