Murphy sex sting: Who benefits? To Catch a Predator PART 2

[MagickMuffin]

Earlier today I posted about the investigation into the Perverted Justice and To Catch a Predator and that there were two reports that I watched. One was on TX Cable News and one from WFAA. I only had a link to the WFAA story, which was not the full version I saw on TX Cable News.

I went to TX Cable News today and they now have the unedited version I only saw part of last night. Everyone should check out this rude A**hole who runs this sting.

No one knows HOW MUCH MONEY Xavier Von Erck makes off each show. Hell, Xavier Von Erck isn't even his REAL name. What's he hiding from that he had to change his name???

NBC News faces a potential $100 million lawsuit over its TV show "To Catch A Predator," shot in the Collin County town of Murphy last fall.

The network was served with a warning letter on Tuesday, charging NBC with negligence in the sex sting.

The sting ended when former Kaufman County district attorney Louis "Bill" Conradt Jr. killed himself as police initiated a search of his house. Conradt's constitutional rights were violated, his sister charged in her legal action. Von Erck represents one leg of a triangle that came together in the production of "To Catch a Predator." The other legs are NBC News and Murphy police.

All say they are in business to help the public, but each gets another reward from the TV show:

• Perverted Justice gets money.
• NBC gets ratings.
• The Murphy Police Department got famous.

"Murphy, Texas is a well-known name now," District Attorney Roach said. "Not for the reasons they would have liked, but it certainly is."

Roach has been criticized on the Internet for asking the questions nobody else would.

When Murphy police arrested 23 men while making "To Catch a Predator," Roach asked where the arrest warrants were.

There were none.

John Roach knew the money issue would come up in court as part of the required disclosure of benefits received by possible witnesses. "What is the deal between NBC and Perverted Justice? Who's getting paid what?" Roach asked.

When the Collin DA's office asked for the contract between the two parties, Perverted Justice—far from cooperating—said the DA would have to get the document from the group's theatrical agent.


MORE:
this link is to the article:
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa070718_wz_sexstingfolo.8e18158c.html


link to video:
http://www.wfaa.com/video/index.html?nvid=160092

Perverted Justice admits this is THEATER.....

[Old and In the Way]

1. Child predators are terrible creatures, but I am very troubled by

turning criminal justice into infotainment. One show devoted to the issue was fine to raise public awareness....making this a weekly show is disgusting. I'm all for stings that catch child predators, but I'm opposed to making it nightly viewer entertainment.

[rocktivity]

2. If it had been a plumber who shot himself

this wouldn't be happening. An assistant DA gets caught (one who seems to have BIG issues with accepting responsibilty), and suddenly, it's a moral dilemma?

:dilemma:
rocknation

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I have long worried that sting operations used as entertainment

would not follow all proper legal procedures so that a perp would be able to get off scott free, even with evidence that he is a sexual predator. And of course, this would open up the great possibility that he would then move to another location and keep on doing his "thing" but with greater circumspection so he wouldn't be caught again.

The other reason I have a problem with these shows is that most of the perps on them have families. The families are often victimized by the perp's behavior too--and because of the widespread publicity of these shows, they are labeled or even shunned, especially the children. I know of a family that underwent this--had to move, change their name, and the kids wound up having a lot of troubles from the trauma, including drug abuse and attempted suicide.

[undergroundpanther]

4. child molesters are sneaky people

Being hurt by one I know first hand they know how to shut people up and manipulate others to deny what they did..That's why they do it in secret.
They know how to spin sex with youngsters so adults disbelieve the kid. Even the child's own parents .The perpetrator of a crime just asks we forget, don't do anything and deny the ugliness. The victim however asks we intervene get our hands dirty and risk standing up for them when they are wounded. Most people prefer cowardice, they will be bystanders. Men that seek sex with young people are sneaky and cruel in their manipulation.They get off on the idea of being a ' monster' in hiding that looks like a good decent human being. They rely on the human reaction to two opposite images that are irreconcilable, cognitive dissonance and predators exploit the human wishful thinking that so called good people are who they say they are.The pedophile betrays trust in the most horrible ways.

If to catch a predator really IS catching men going after young decoys than despite whatever legal boundaries they push, they do demonstrate how dangerous the world IS for kids when they must live with and around adults who have no consciences and would have sex with a kid.

There has to be something done and if the pedophiles find any leverage to keep their fetishes undisclosed and their techniques to hook up with young people untouched they will exploit the system,people laws,anything to get what they want.Men that seek sex with young people are master emotional manipulators.

Our culture is diseased if grown older men think they need sex with a teen,These kind of men need to learn,somehow that 12 year olds are OFF LIMITS to them.Having sex With young teens is wrong when you are like 10,15,20,30 years older.
There is an issue here very few people see,the imbalance of power that an adult grown male with a job wife kids, home ect..has over a teen that is looking for attention to be heard,recognized appreciated that these men exploit. Imbalance of power must be addressed on many different levels in our sick culture especially when that many men get caught seeking out sex with a teenagers in their PARENT's home.

I know deep down all people fear death and some don't desire to take that fear of death ,weakness old age or vulnerability out on children and women. But many DO.This shit is caused by deep seated paranoid fear of facing up to the age you are,facing the fact this world is messy,sometimes vicious and sometimes a horrible place. Adults seeking sex with younger people really does hurt children,it is like a theft of their sexuality,and it can and does often ruin sex for them for sometimes for the rest of their lives.Spoiling a child's innocent or emerging sexuality with adult betrayal,through rape and sex gotten by manipulation of the child's insecurities and hopes is one of the cruelest things an adult can do to somebody..and any adult that does it deserves to feel shame and hate and scorn from the rest of humanity for the rest of his days at best.

Men need learn how to to be contained in the sexual desire when they cannot figure out sex with teens is wrong or if they lack the conscience to not get that or if they could care less whom they hurt with their own sexual kinks.I am sick of men blaming victims for their own choices to NOT control themselves. And it happens more than men want to man up to.Maintaining boundaries respecting others boundaries and self control within a person them self is vital if we want to be free people.

I would like to see convicted pedophiles killed.They can't be cured because they see nothing wrong with what they do or they don't care. If they don't care about a kid or teens life they ruin, why should I care about their life?

The world would be better if pedophilia was wiped off this planet. Some men need to get it that some sexual things are NOT ok, and everyone has a right to have their own body un violated and respected.Especially if they do not understand because they are YOUNG what sex means. The adults should know better the fact they pretend they don't is very telling of how sexually sick our culture IS.

[MagickMuffin]

11. I'm about to post this as it's own thread but thought I would respond to you

since YOU think ALL predators should be KILLED.

I speak from experience. I WAS raped as a teenager, and while I would love to exact my own justice on this matter, I wouldn't want to see my rapist killed, I would have no problem having his appendage removed so he can never harm another child. Oh and by the way he was my sisters boyfriend at the time and she was probably involved.

Debate on Child Pornography’s Link to Molesting:

Experts have often wondered what proportion of men who download explicit sexual images of children also molest them. A new government study of convicted Internet offenders suggests that the number may be startlingly high: 85 percent of the offenders said they had committed acts of sexual abuse against minors, from inappropriate touching to rape.

The study, which has not yet been published, is stirring a vehement debate among psychologists, law enforcement officers and prison officials, who cannot agree on how the findings should be presented or interpreted.

The research, carried out by psychologists at the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is the first in-depth survey of such online offenders’ sexual behavior done by prison therapists who were actively performing treatment. Its findings have circulated privately among experts, who say they could have enormous implications for public safety and law enforcement.

Traffic in online child pornography has exploded in recent years, and the new study, some experts say, should be made public as soon as possible, to identify men who claim to be “just looking at pictures” but could, in fact, be predators.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/us/19sex.html?ei=5088&en=d4261d44378419aa&ex=1342497600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

So, you see most predators feel the urge to molest children after viewing child porn. And if you go and read the whole article, it states that NOT all men will continue to be child molesters.

Sheesh, we have a lot more priests who prey on children... I guess we should fire up the Bar•B, and grill 'em. Priest on a Stick, ummmmmmmmmm.......

[undergroundpanther]

14. I understand your concerns.

I don't think the state is capable of executing people justly.Many innocents are on death row and I am aware of this.
But on the other hand pedophiles see nothing bad in what they do. Until they get a consience, they will hurt kids. I don't think many people without a consience really grow one.They may FAKE one to get out of jail. But who after they are free watches what they do when they believe no one sees them.That is the real test.To catch a predator makes this point clear.
If a pedophile cannot be cured and nobody can be a one on one guard to monitor every perverts waking moment, now what?
What do you do? Lock them up forever and admit these people will not change? How are we gonna pay for all of them?
What do we do? Change the culture can help but it is not a solution I trust that will keep kids safe.I mean when porn was restricted to shady places kids got raped but because of the cultural denial the victims did not come forward and they often got no help. Everything was peachy in appearance only..

As for child porn, it is EVERYWHERE in our culture,just not explicitly so.It is hinted.And the growth hormones in milk blur the line of what is an adult,kids as young as 8 are getting breasts and periods, now but they still are as mature as 8 year olds trapped in adult bodies.And any adult hooked on a fantasy can tell themselves she's an adult she's got pubes..but she is in her mental capacity still 8 years old.And this is a terrible imbalance of power for an adult to have over a child.And adult is just using the child as a prop for a fantasy in his head...

Go to a little girls clothes section, and there they have clothes with symbolic sexual icons on them ,short shorts with cherries..for instance.Why? I had to get clothes for my niece and I was disgusted by what I saw there, If I bought some of that shit she'd look like a mini streewalker.. This is a sick thing, maybe somebody in the marketing department making kids clothes somewhere thought it would be cute to sexualize kids clothes.


And don't tell me a pedophile isn't noticing this hint clothes manufacturers are doing in thier marketing departments if they are sick enough to be convicted of harming a kid sexually. Pedophilia has no cure and it is not only because our culture is sick.If the pedophile sees no reason within to change he won't change,he can appear to,and play the parole game to get out. So what do you do with them.Can't let them go,can't kill them.What do you do?


Girls gone wild commercials are on comedy central. I was once doing art and I had paper mache and I could not turn the channel, without getting glue all over everything and messing up my art. They peddle porn on TV.After a few minutes when my project was stabilized so It wouldn't fall over as I turned the channeland I felt anger over it.Because of the hurt this shit inflicts on girls who deep down feel like nobodies. There are people who will defend porn and say it has NO connection to rape or pedophilia, you know.And I disagree with them.Making love happened way before porn existed.Porn has no purpose but to feed an addiction to fantasies.

I think porn works by instigating sexual fantasies that are unrealistic but addictive,the fantasies are fed by viewing porn and make believe.Make believe has more appeal than real life when reality is painful to live.As the fantasy turns into an escape it gets addictive, than it becomes a fixation it must be fed like an addict wants a drug, It all is to suppress emotional pain,and deny it...to run away rather than work through it,as reality is painful. So the fixation like a drug addicted crack head,seeks bigger rocks for the"ultimate high" the porn addict seeks more and more racy, violent,perverse, and disgusting shocking, and forbidden porn, until acting it out is the only way to 'fulfill'' it.

Marquis De Sade wrote about what happens to a person when the feelings of pleasure is exhausted by over indulgence..Than pain and cruelty domination and such is the only way to feel pleasure again..and when pleasure by pain is exhausted, blandness is the new novel pleasure..

People that believe any fantasy in the head is ok miss the point of self discretion. Just because a fantasy becomes a fixation does not mean should be acted on. Some fantasies are better forgotten, or kept to oneself locked in the head and left unfed' so it will go away from lack of attention. You do not have to entertain every thought in your head and certainly you do not have to manifest every idea in real life...
Some people blur the lines betweeen thier own fantasies and realities of what living that fantasy may cost.

To catch a predator shows the cost of a fantasy to these guys who never considered cost to themselves or anyone else or they didn't consider the risk cost and harm done to be real enough to let go of a fantasy fixation before they walked into that house.

And I know there will be people who disagree with me and I bet these people if you observed them,unwatched..Do value their own fantasies more than they will consider what the market that has exploited feeding their fantasies harms others in human costs...They don't want to think about that.It fucks up the fantasy I guess.

[northzax]

5. so why are there never women on this show?

certainly there are women having sex with teenage boys (there is a story every couple of weeks about it, right?) so why not go looking for female predators as well? oh right, it's not good TV.

[NYCGirl]

6. And how would they "go looking for female predators"? NT

[northzax]

7. um, same way they go lookiin for men?

instead of pretending to be a girl pretend to be a boy. not one exists? really?

[NYCGirl]

8. They do have people posing as young boys. NT

[Zywiec]

9. But probably for the men n/t

[NYCGirl]

10. How do they target only men? Women online predators are extremely rare. NT

[undergroundpanther]

12. Female predators are less common.

But they exist. Maybe they just "hook" more males because there are more males out there looking for sex with 12 year olds on line..
I mean men DO cause rape because they choose to make women a target for projecting disgust and their fears upon.

Our culture induces a kind of shame about sex and a desire to create a pure world, when humiliation deeply felt and felt as
aspects of one's own helplessness, as a form of psychic powerlessness that is painful to
experience.Disgust works by shielding human beings from too much daily contact with aspects
of their own humanity that are difficult to live with, the very ones of which people are deeply
ashamed. So rather than admit that could be you or I or anyone's life at times, can be disgusting ,some rather than face reality of our mortality will go on a domination trip and go into fantasy where youth never fades,and will seek to live that fantasy and use a child to pretend immortality and so they seek sex with a young person to assuage their own anxieties about their advancing age,feelings of helplessness powerlessness shame,to deny the fact we live in a dangerous slimy, smelly dirty ,scary ,cruel world that hurts sometimes and in a life that will end...Men especially are taught by cultures to fear and embody the opposite of softness,weakness.. all the things ironically that signify youth,or femaleness.Some men and some women too deep down unconsciously think if they can erase that soft vulnerability in others around them defile it,rape it,make it broken, they in turn will never have to feel vulnerable soft,young and powerless again which ironically old age puts us into that position again where we rely on caretakers to change our diapers and feed us.It feels shameful to be that dependant...That terrible vulnerability that is inherent living in a perishable body and the desire to feel intimacy, innocence and tenderness and empowered is inside all of us . But in some people it gets twisted and becomes a paranoia that leads to pedophilia,rape and killing.Because the thought of being helpless vulnerable dependant and unprotected person made to be a baby again is a very horrible feeling,a rage,and in this world it's usually caused by trauma and rejection,neglect by caretakers and illness is another way that causes this feeling in humans and it is directly linked in our animal brains to a threat.That is why trauma wounds people I have scars in my brain caused by what adults did to me. Saw them in my MRI scan. What this adult did to me as a kid was selfish it was to to stave off his own envy of my youth,my innocence, my 'purity' the pervert lacked, his fears and disgust at his own corruption, vulnerability he projected all that sickness about these issues into a weapon he used upon me in the form of pedophilia.Self loathing was put into me,my sexuality was stolen and broken, all the horribleness that the perpetrator wanted to deny entered me, and I am still in therapy still on medicines,I still get depressed enough to desire to kill myself,and wake up in sweat from nightmares.I have been in therapy most of my life.My situation is not uncommon,the severity of it might not be as common, But trauma happens alot to boys and girls man and women both carry this dynamic of shame exists in every culture.

[countryjake]

13. No chain of evidence ensurance, no presumption of innocence...

and, according to the NYC attorney for a former producer of "To Catch a Predator", who lost her job when she raised ethical concerns, there are questions as to whether entrapment and luring has actually been used in previous arrests. Official law enforcement operations are held to strict rules regarding online "suggesting" when it comes to internet stings and are held to public rules of justice. This former producer has discussed the possibility that "chats" provided by Perverted Justice were altered to erase evidence of luring, in early cases that have already been prosecuted, and which will most likely result in cases being investigated for "chain of evidence" lapses, reversal of convictions, and possible predators having their "sexual offender" status erased, thus, starting from zero in solving a very real, serious problem.

Conducting witch-hunts as prime-time entertainment is verging on Stephen King's "Running man" scenario, and tossing out protocols of our justice system for tv ratings is the ultimate bastardization that results from promoting reality "arrest" programming.

[undergroundpanther]

15. Nixon was busted by a "sting" operation

Criminals hide what they do and lie.A sting just catches them doing what they do otherwise when they think nobody sees them.Child abuse occurs in the most secluded rooms of the house. why? because the perpetrator KNOWS is abusing privacy and he wants to get away with doing bad things.So he covers his ass.

And some of the perverts caught by catch a predator even in their chats will say Umm you are too young when the decoy says 12, but the pervert STILL insist on meeting the teen for sex knowing full well he could be walking into a sting.

Chat logs are what they are. Solicitation is solicitation,sting operations catch murder for hire they catch drug dealers, and scammers red handed. Sting operations are a NORMAL part of law enforcement techniques..
And if men trolling for kids get shamed on TV oh well shouldn't have been looking to have sex with teens, alone at the parents house.

If they lack the ethics to see what is WRONG with doing that, oh well better the perpetrators caught red handed and humiliated on TV than brazenly online and hooking up with teens they butter up and exploit to ruin their young lives.

A predator of children lost their innocence the minute he acted on the notion,that it's ok to go to a kids house when their parents are away for sex AND SHOWED UP for sex with condoms,ready to get it off..Even if it's a set up the INTENT to exploit a kid sexually was already there and the predator was desperate dumb or sick enough to risk being exposed on TV..If the perpetrators don't like that the stings outwit them Tough, I don't like kids being exploited by adults sexually.

[countryjake]

19. Dateline's "stings" were NOT outwitting perps...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/08/AR2006040801293.html

~snip~

"A spokesman for Corrupted Justice said much of Perverted Justice's efforts are counterproductive because most of the people it exposes suffer no legal consequence and remain free to prey on children. Perverted Justice's members also have mistakenly identified and harassed innocent people but are not held accountable because they operate anonymously, typically using computer screen names, Corrupted Justice spokesman Scott Morrow said.

'The fact is, these people are amateurs,' Morrow said. 'They're volunteers, with no official training, no training in law enforcement, no training in the rules of evidence, no idea about maintaining evidence so it can be used in court. They shop this stuff around, and most of the time local law enforcement tells them, 'We can't use it.'"



I have a feeling that you didn't quite understand the point in my original post. The very first season that "To Catch a Predator" aired, no law enforcement was even involved in those stings and very few of the people "hooked" into the schemes were ever actually prosecuted, at all.
The evidence of the "chat logs" was corrupted on the end of Perverted Justice and some was totally destroyed by the perps, by the time actual police investigations were able to be launched. There is a good reason that our justice system is subject to scrutiny by the public and even better reasons that vigilantism is no longer encouraged. You don't get to be judge, jury, and executioner in a rational system of government (at least, you shouldn't be).




(edited to fix link)

[MagickMuffin]

16. Yep, in my other thread about the Murphy situation several people stated the producer

being fired for raising concerns about the tactics.

And when you have the owner of Perverted Justice stating the DA has to obtain the records from their theatrical agent well that just says it ALL....

My first thread about this subject:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1375616&mesg_id=1375616

Here's a link to the story about the ex-producer
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0529071...

[countryjake]

20. In that Murphy case, the Sting occurred in July, warrant served Nov. (with Dateline)...

It seems there may have been all sorts of screw-ups with that DA suicide. The warrant that they had in hand at the guy's door in November, when he killed himself, was dated from the time that Perverted Justice did the original sting, back in July, with only a three-day window. Evidently, the Dateline crew wanted to be present for the ratings-grabbing arrest of a County Prosecutor...what the fuck is up with that? They wait months to go after a guy they think may be molesting young boys, so they can air it on a tv show?!? And an official investigation is not begun til after the guy has blown his own brains out? That whole thing puts a taint on even legitimate, official police operations, in conducting online stings to catch sexual predators.

It all reeks of witch-hunting for entertainment, not concern for children who are being raped and molested, daily.

[countryjake]

25. Thanks for that Smoking Gun link...hadn't seen that.

http://chatmag.com/blog/?p=73

Here's one about them stalling that case, waiting for Dateline to be there, but this is not the same as what I'd heard said on tv, before that producer decided to sue NBC. They'd talked about Perverted Justice volunteers setting up people in chat rooms, stalking potential "perps", altering chat logs and profiles, really questionable shit, considering that actual cases were later going to be made in courts of law. In the Ohio sting, the Perverted Justice volunteers were temporarily "deputized" by the Darke Co. Sheriff, otherwise, nothing in the chats would be acceptable as evidence to prosecute...however, there is no way to verify that those "chatters" had changed their tactics that they were using in previous stings, before any law-enforcement was ever involved.

It all stinks to high heaven, honestly.

[Mugu]

17. I don't care if Xavier Von Erck is a rude A**hole.

Or that he makes some money for what he's doing (if we didn't pay our police officers, they would eventually quit coming to work.) Or that he keeps his identity secret so reprisals from known criminals will be more difficult. If he dissuades other molesters from committing this crime by making the predators the prey, so much the better.

Even if the DA refuses to press charges, the child molester will be exposed for what he really is to his family, friends, and law enforcement.

I'm guessing that theatrical agent is another name for attorney.

Regards, Mugu

[MagickMuffin]

22. Hopefully when you're watching you won't witness a family member being pursued

and then have everyone you know harass you for it.

[Mugu]

24. Sorry for the long delay responding,

I had prior obligations and just got home.

Anybody that would hold me responsible for another's behavior is not a person that I care about what they think. Anybody that truly knows me, knows that I would have notified the authorities if I reasonably believed anybody (family member or not) was guilty of a heinous crime. I don't care who shines the light on predators. The more light, the better. There can't be too few predators.

I truly don't understand your reasoning on this matter, but that's alright, there's no requirement that we agree.

Regards, Mugu

[MagickMuffin]

26. My reasoning on this matter is this

this should only be conducted by law enforcement. NOT by people who have a paycheck to consider. And as stated by other people who have posted in both my threads, that the former producer of the show revealed that the people working at Perverted Justice CLAIM they are of age and then go back and change their user profile to indicate they are underage, and if these people (the perv's) show up at a teenager's house thinking they are of age only to find out they are being set up, then well I hope you can see the reasoning why this is bad. This is the REASON I'm against TCAP. They are causing more harm to the children by using this as a means to capture predators. Again this should only be conducted by Law enforcement. After all Gonzo is ALL about protecting the children, except the ones they don't want to protect, as in the Texas Youth Commission where young boys have been sexually abused by the Admin's who worked there.

I DO NOT condone anyone abusing children, period. As someone who was raped as a child I should know how devastating that trauma can be to a child's psyche. I just don't think having a national TV show to exploit people is the way to go about it.

If you condone these kind of shows then that is your choice.

[Mugu]

27. It's clear that we aren't going to agree.

I'm going to bed, I wish you well. But, I still believe that we should cull the predators from the population for the good of all.

Regards, Mugu

[MissB]

18. I'm finding it impossible to muster up sympathy

for people caught in Dateline's show.

[undergroundpanther]

21. Me too

The intent was proven already by the cameras. The men on catch a predator physically showed up to a house where they believed a kid was there alone,for sex. To add to the intent these pigs even bring condoms for sex they INTEND to have.
They INTENDED to do a crime.
So what if the chat logs get corrupted by perps.
The INTENT to sexually assault a minor is clearly shown by the man walking into the house taking to the decoy,pulling out the condoms the decoy requested, caught by the CAMERAS.

Tell me why on Earth would an ADULT stranger just show up at a house with a young teen all alone, that the man has never met yet ,and isn't related to, or knows their parents, for?

These assholes sometimes are driving hundreds of miles with condoms in pocket,How could one of these pigs just at whim find a house out of thousands houses they pass by that just happens to have a teen alone inside waiting for them.. by "happenstance"?? Unless at some time he planned the meeting and wanted sex with a teen to begin with?And ACTED on that.

I have no sympathy for these men .

I wouldn't want to work on that show .I'd be too tempted to beat the living shit out of them.

[MagickMuffin]

23. How do you know these perv's aren't going there to meet up with someone they think is of age?

We have no way of knowing if these people are being lied to or not. Unless you are part of Perverted Justice or you have some kind of divining method to actually know that they are aware they are talking with teens.

I don't watch that show. So, I don't know what tactics are used to lure these men to these houses. But I do know that we have children up on Capitol Hill who are probably in more danger at the hands of our elected officials.... Mark Foley anyone. He KNEW these kids were underage yet he pursued them anyway.

There are better ways to conduct a sting and using NETWORK TV IS NOT ONE OF THEM, period....

Suppose you are watching and you recognize someone from your own family???