We need single-payer, not just universal, healthcare.

[Guaranteed]

Most politicians use the phrase "universal healthcare" when expressing support for health coverage for everyone or nearly everyone, but they are being deliberately vague when they do so. The phrase "universal healthcare" avoids the flaws inherent in our current system- namely, corporate middlemen siphoning off money that should be covering the costs of patients' care directly. Most of the "universal healthcare" plans out there- unless they say otherwise- only throw more taxpayer money at those middlemen to get more people covered. Thus, although such plans are "universal," which is nice, they do not address the cost crisis our healthcare system faces. It's a milquetoast phrase describing half-assed plans to fix the system.

The solution is to have the government- either the state or the feds- be the one and only healthcare insurer for our citizens. The funding would go into the system in much the same way Medicare works today. And the greatest part about single-payer healthcare is that it would actually be cheaper for everyone than what we have today. A study was recently done in California showing that just that state would save $8 BILLION dollars, only in the program's FIRST YEAR, while covering EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE STATE, if a single-payer healthcare plan was implemented. See the Lewin Group's report here:

http://www.healthcareforall.org/studies.html

But we must make it clear exactly what will fix the system in our speech- single-payer healthcare. "Universal healthcare" may satisfy the likes of Sens. Obama and Clinton, but it shouldn't satisfy us. Like Michael Moore said, there's no room for corporate middlemen when it comes to the health of our people.

So, please, say it loud and proud- SINGLE-PAYER, not merely universal, HEALTHCARE.

[Sherman A1]

1. Agreed and Well Said.

You hit the nail on the head.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

2. K & R. nt.

[walldude]

3. K&R

[OlderButWiser]

4. What happens to all

the people employed in the health care insurance industry? Will all those jobs be eliminated?

[many a good man]

8. Only about 10% will lose jobs (agents)

Currently CMS bids out contracts to private firms to help process claims, so most of the employees, with the exception of salesman, will continue to work. Especially if we allow the companies to sell supplemental insurance, as do most countries with single payer.

More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1333404&mesg_id=1334948

[OlderButWiser]

11. How many people

would that be?

[endarkenment]

16. Do the research.

I did, and if I recall correctly, the worst case (everyone gets fired) is in the 100,000 - 200,000 range.

Note that medicare administration will be hiring.

[endarkenment]

14. Some will lose their jobs. Oh well...

meanwhile all of us, including the ones who lose their jobs, will benefit from having a universal entitlement to healthcare.

[Guaranteed]

34. A lot of them would be, yes.

But that's the price of efficiency, and getting everyone the care they need. And the new system would create jobs, as well.

[annabanana]

5. The "honest" crooks use the term "universal coverage"

and hope that you don't notice that they didn't say "universal healthcare". . . .

[Tesha]

6. So which politicians (and which parties) will deliver that? (NT)

[KharmaTrain]

7. It's A BIG Difference

Actually there should be a two-tier system...Universal AND Single Payer. For those who don't have the luxuary of a job or to afford supplemental coverage, there must be a basic level of service...which a single-payer system addresses. This will address the needs of many of the lower income and poor who have no coverage now...and who need to be encouraged to use the system in a preventative manner...regular check-ups vs. emergency care.

[OzarkDem]

13. I disagree

Everyone should have access to the same level of quality care for essential health care services.

Of course that doesn't include things like cosmetic surgery, etc. But we won't become a truly productive and healthy society unless everyone has access to the same level of health care. A two tiered system is also likely to have a negative effect on the overall quality of the health care system - two tiers of care translates into two tiers of health care quality - good and bad.

How people pay for that care is a different matter. Those who can afford to contribute to the cost of their care should, those who can't afford it obviously shouldn't have to.

[endarkenment]

17. Why would you want that?

Why should the poor get shitty care? What is wrong with you?

[KharmaTrain]

20. Let Me Clarify...

Currently millions have zero coverage...totally frozen out of the system. Millions more have substandard care...I'm addressing the need to just set a minimum standard of care for people that is similar to other countries. The question to be debated is how we get there...and unfortunately, we get the lesser of the evils...does the government administer it or mandate the insurance companies to do so? Or is there a third way???

Right now the poor get almost no care. This is especially the case with preventative care. The system is now based on dealing with emergencies that drive up costs. In many foreign countries the longer lives and lower health costs are a direct reflection of accessibility of people to get regular check-ups and more direct personal care. Our current system has all but removed the family physician...who has been forced into working with HMOs, PPO and other insurance company regimes.

The problem, as Moore has pointed out, is that education and the debate on this topic was shut down cold in '94 and we need to take a complete far different view on our healthcare situation. I profess no answers, just my own experiences...and that we need to remove the insurance companies from being the gatekeepers to our healthcare system...but is the government the real agent of change?

[OlderButWiser]

21. I'm uneducated on this subject...

...who are most of the people with no coverage? Poor children are covered with Medicaid right? Seniors are covered by Medicare. Is it working poor who are uncovered?

[endarkenment]

24. yes it is workers with lousy or no insurance

Although as Moore has pointed out, even if you think you have decent insurance, don't be too sure about that.

But I have a huge problem with a two tier system that allows 'those other people' to have shitty care. That is just odious crap.

[OlderButWiser]

26. People with money

will always get better care. how would we avoid it?

[endarkenment]

29. We can't.

They have a more comfortable retirement plan as well. However we have one social security system for everyone for good reasons: otherwise the politicians would start pitting the good senior citizens against the bad ones and fuck over all of us at the same time. For the same reasons we should have exactly one public healthcare system that provides decent care to everyone. If rich snots want to buy boob jobs for their trophy wives on their own dime, that is their problem, but if you or I need open heart surgery we should have access to the best open heart surgery available in our area on an equal basis in the same line with no cutting in, pun intended.

[KharmaTrain]

25. The System Is Deliberately Confusing...

My experience comes from working with my father's medical practice in his last years. He was an old GP who hung on...practiced for 60 years and saw his ability to diagnose and treat patients diminish over the years. How we had to justify almost every claim...and how the insurance companies got more and more into playing god...telling doctors how to treat patients, reward thse who played along and made life hell for those who tried to question.

I also go from my own experience of not being able to afford health insurance at one point in my life and living on the edge constantly...worried what I'd do if one of my young children became seriously ill. Or for many years, we took substandard coverage...the most minimal coverage that would surely have plunged us into major debt had we needed any serious care.

While I've read a lot about Sicko, I haven't seen it yet...I avoid the Cineplex on the weekends and opening week. I hope to catch it in the next couple days. From what I've read about the movie and heard Michael Moore speak, it will open your eyes...and mine as well. Hopefully it's a good launching pad on a discussion that's long overdue.

If you see the movie, let's compare notes down the road and hopefully we both get a better understanding of our screwed up healthcare system.

Cheers...

[KharmaTrain]

27. Ooops

The Comcast rat isn't spinning the tubes on the google fast enough...

Nevermind...

[Guaranteed]

33. Single-payer is not necessarily only a "basic" level of service- in fact,

SB 840, the Califoria single-payer bill, covers almost everything- "Coverage includes all care prescribed by a patient's health care provider that meets accepted standards of care and practice. Coverage includes hospital, medical, surgical, mental health; dental and vision care; prescription drugs and medical equipments, diagnostic testing, hospice care and more."


http://www.onecarenow.org/sb840.htm

[Vinca]

9. Agreed. However, it should be administered by the feds.

Otherwise, each state will have a different system and anyone who moves around will be bogged down with changing state plans. The federal government can have a bureau in each state to administer the program, but we need to simplify with one system.

[OlderButWiser]

10. Would single payer address this problem:

What I see happen alot now is people will ask for a prescription for something that is available in an over the counter form. This costs the insurance companies or Medicare alot of money.

[endarkenment]

12. No.

But somehow I think this is not really a major cost driver in healthcare. If you have data that shows that this is indeed a major factor, please provide it.

[many a good man]

32. Formularies

Formularies are a kind of "best practices" for medical treatment. A single payer system will enable the creation of the most effective formulary that would become the standard method of treatment. One possibility is that if you want treatment beyond the formulary you can get it with supplemental insurance or pay out of pocket.

[papau]

15. I agree :-)

:-)

[sutz12]

18. Good point...

Most of the plans out there now, much like the original Hillary plan, are just ways to extend the insurance industry's scam for a few more years.

We need single payer health care, not additional insurance company boondoggles.

[Faryn Balyncd]

19. Any "solution" that does not remove the insurance companies from the equation is doomed to failure.

Any "solution" that does not remove the insurance companies from the equation will end up making things even worse than the present system.

[philly_bob]

30. This sentence is the key "take-away" from the discussion. /nt

[Guaranteed]

35. Yes nt

[JacquesMolay]

22. Ditto...

...n/t

[RedEarth]

23. This Link is the most comprehensive site for Single-Payer ...also has numerous links to other sites

It is an excellent site and well worth reading if you want to find out about Single-Payer Health Insurance.
..............

The Physicians’ Proposal for National Health Insurance

The Physicians’ Proposal for National Health Insurance establishes the vision and principles of a single-payer health system for the United States. The document was composed by a distinguished group of physician leaders*, and secured the endorsement of 8,000 physicians by the time of its publication in the August 13, 2003 JAMA.

The text outlines the general structure of the single-payer plan: eligibility and coverage, physician and outpatient care payment, global budgeting of hospitals, the establishment of a national long-term care program, planned capital investment and single-payer financing.


http://www.pnhp.org/

[ljm2002]

28. Yes: Single-payer, universal health care...

...anything else doesn't cut it.

The last thing I want to see is so-called "universal health insurance", where people will be lawbreakers if they cannot afford to buy health insurance.

[LWolf]

31. Single-payer, universal, NOT-FOR-PROFIT healthcare. n/t