Something about the Plame case doesn't make sense to me...

[GOTV]

... am I the only one?

I don't really get the motivation for the Bush administration outing Plame. I think I've heard 3 explanations

1 - To discredit Joe's report on the Niger documents
2 - To intimidate Joe into shutting up
3 - To punish Joe for contradicting the administration

Has a consensus formed on DU on the real reason?

Here's my problems with these motivations:

1 - I don't what connection people were supposed to make about the credibility of Joe Wilson or his report based on the fact that his wife was a CIA agent and might have had some influence in selecting Joe to go to Niger. They seem unrelated. In fact, doesn't it suggest that Joe might have all kinds of access to info, through his wife, that would make his report even more credible?

2 - I could see this if someone first told Joe that his wife was in danger if he didn't shut up. That sounds like intimidation. But if you don't warn first, how do you expect your intimidation to work. I guess there's a possibility that the exposing of his wife was supposed to be a warning shot and that he would know that there was worse to come if he didn't shut up. Is that what people are thinking? What possible "worse things to come" might there have been?

3 - This is the most plausible because I understand that his wife's career was ended by the revelation. But, couldn't they have just fired her? Since there is only one CIA, if your career is that of a CIA agent, and you're fired, that also ends your career. A firing wouldn't have exposed an agent and endangered god knows how many other people that were working with her.

Does anyone have a clear explanation of what the Bush administration expected to get out of exposing Plame? To me it seems like more of an accident that her status got revealed. Just one more blunder from an incompetent administration.

What's the story?

[Captain Hilts]

1. To appeal to consevatives, they wanted to discredit Wilson by making it look as though...

he was dependent on his wife for work.

It's a conservative/sexist thing.

[whatelseisnew]

3. That was a side benefit, the real goal was Brewster Jennings

They destroyed the US counterproliferation operation.

[Captain Hilts]

16. I don't think they set out to destroy Brewser Jennings. That was 'collateral damage' nt

[whatelseisnew]

24. I think you are wrong

[GOTV]

17. But conservatives were already on Bush's side...

... and would have reflexively doubted Joe's report when it contradicted the president.

[Captain Hilts]

34. Yes, but it's more than that. They wanted to depict him...

as not having the creds - and expertise - to have been chosen to take the trip without the help of his wife.

It was a slam on his credibility to make the observations in Niger that he made.

[Lars39]

2. Ultimately, to shut down the very people that keep track of WMD

and such in Asia.

[Jeanette in FL]

5. BINGO

Once Brewster Jennings was exposed, it was forced to close down shop in Iran.

[speedoo]

25. Yes. As unthinkable as that sounds, consider the possibility...

of having the Iraq War go as Cheney and Rumsfeld expected. A cakewalk, with no major problems in the occupation. Such a scenario would have allowed bushco to maintain high approval ratings and this trial would be considered by many more to be irrelevant. The RWers who claim Libby is being falsely accused of "technical" wrongdoing would have the high ground in public opinion and Libby might have already been pardoned.

[Sydnie]

8. as well as send a message to

anyone else (CIA or newspaper included) that might dare challenge them on their "facts". It was blanket intimidation and it worked or a while, didn't it?

[whatelseisnew]

14. Thats why Novak named Brewster Jennings & Associates in his follow up

[Whoa_Nelly]

23. Yup! It was all about "Getting A War On!"

PNAC 'nuff said


Get Your War On!




http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war61.html

[Warpy]

27. Plame's main interest was the nuclear program in IRAN

so outing her and destroying the whole cover operation was a twofer: it allowed them to fake intelligence on Iran to trump up another disastrous and unwinnable war, plus it embarrassed her husband because he told the truth about Iraq.

Plame would likely not have been outed had she been digging up dirt on Cuba.

[blm]

35. Exactly - see this current thread on Plame for greater insight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=127688&mesg_id=127688

[buzzard]

36. Or to prevent them from discovering them trying to plant them is my theory.n/t

[Dora]

4. She was working on anti nuclear proliferation and Iran.

She was hot on Cheney's trail.

[GardeningGal]

6. My feeling is

that it was two things. The first was they wanted to discredit Wilson to make people question his editorial. But I also believe it was retaliation and they wanted it to set an example for anyone else that thought about discrediting the administration.

[havocmom]

7. Plame ran an undercover op that DID monitor traffic in materials for weapons

Outing her destroyed an VERY important tool in watching weapon developments globally. Now, if weapons materials can be moved around without the CIA knowing, war is more likely in LOTS of places. And who profits most from expanded warfare? Cheney's masters!

Now, can ya see one more reason for Dick to out Plame and make it easier for arms merchants to traffic? Follow the money... always good advice when dealing with GOP in power. ;)

[KansDem]

9. Isn't there a fourth theory?

That certain players in the current Bush Administration were up to the filthy necks in WMDs deals in the mid-east that Plame and her operation could have exposed, resulting in embarrassment and legal action for those involved?

[itsmesgd]

10. it got her brass plate company out of investigating Iranian ties to nukes

With no one investigating Iran, it's easier for the shrub to say what he wants without being disproven, again and again.
Plus, it put fear into and intel agent to watch their mouth or they will be putting their lives in danger.

[Richard Steele]

11. #4: none of the above. Here's a thread that lays it out pretty plainly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x127688

[whatelseisnew]

21. Thats the Link , Thank You dicksteele

[Redbear]

12. From what I have read it was a specific pushback against the idea that

Wilson went because of the VP's interest.

The story they were pushing is:

1. CIA wants to blame VP for Iraq
2. Wilson is a hack who would do the CIA's bidding on Niger
3. Plame's status was eveidence they could use to prove Wilson's trip was bogus from day one. Wilson was not an independent actor.

[leftofthedial]

13. I think the concensus is that this was done to expose and eliminate the

"Brewster Jennings" CIA operation so the bushies' treasonous malfeasance on the issue of proliferation of WMD would not be exposed.

Attacking Wilson was a side benefit.

[notadmblnd]

15. here's a start

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x127688

[annabanana]

18. Exposing Valerie Wilson not only lost her, HER job. . .

It rolled up the operation of Brewster-Jennings.. the cover "company" she and others had been working for. Their job, at the time, was tracking the underground market in loose nukes out of the former Soviet Union to the Mid-East, specifically Pakistan and Iran.

Her outfit was best situated to put the lie to the administration's claim that Iran was developing a bomb, when (according to the latest National Intelligence Estimate-NIE) they are no where NEAR up to that kind of capability.

You can understand why they wouldn't want honest operative sticking their noses in...

If you review the blueprints of PNAC, you will see that Iraq was only meant to be an appetizer.

[Sancho]

19. The way they think...

they wanted to send a message to everyone in the CIA that they would get your family if you crossed them (aka Soprano effect)..

[Kingshakabobo]

20. I thin it was John Dean who said:

"Not even Nixon went after family"......or words to that effect.

[Parisle]

22. "Motivation" does not imply that it was well-thought-out

--- In reality, it probably also reflects Cheney's irrational, hamfisted bullying personality,... and not necessarily the reasoned moves of a chess master.

[emulatorloo]

26. Cheney's inquiry to CIA resulted in Wilson being sent

Wilson came back said, Saddam didn't try to get uranium in Niger.

Bush used it anyway in SOTU

Wilson goes public.

Angry Bellicose (Lying) Cheney -- I never sent Joe wilson I never heard of joe wilson etc

Rove Libby et al to reporters -- Mrs. Plame sent Joe Wilson, not VP Cheney

--
So to distance themselves from Wilson;s mission, to say that it was nepotism and therefore not to be trusted

[GOTV]

28. Thanks for the additional info....

... I was unaware that the whole operation she was in was closed up.

So the outing probably would have happened anyway even without the Wilson report. Correct?

Sounds though that what they were doing was very important. Wouldn't the CIA just start a new group? I realize that any new group might take years to get back to the point the old group was at.

Is there any indication that the CPD group was near to discovering anything?

[endarkenment]

29. 4. Send a clear warning to the intelligence community

that any efforts to thwart the cabal and its war plans would be dealt with in a manner that could include death by exposure for covert agents.

We in fact do not know if any of Plame's associates ended up dead as a result of her outing. When a covert agent is outed, his or her entire network of associates are outed along with the agent. Depending on where those associates are located at the time of the outing, they stand a very reasonable chance of getting murdered.

(4) works for me. It is also treason.

[ms liberty]

30. They were killing 2 birds with one stone...

Trashing Joe Wilson and cutting out a big chunk of the survelliance we had of WMD's, Iraq, Iran. Outing Brewster Jennings. Covering up the money trails, and truth, too.

[kenny blankenship]

31. 1 To discredit Wilson

The assertion made was that Wilson had not been sent by the Office of the Vice President to Niger make a report, but that his wife at CIA was part of some CIA plot to tarnish the war rationale. If the idea could be planted that Wilson had acted as part of a conspiracy to discredit the war, and his alleged report was perceived as laced with his ulterior motives, then the content of the report would hopefully be dismissed by the slavish Washington press corps. If Wilson had not been sent by the OVP that would snare him in a falsehood prior to any assertion or opinion made in his report. So they said Wilson had not been requested by OVP, that the report had not been requested. To make it look worse they put forward the line that his wife had selected him to go on her own authority. This furnished the alternate explanation for how Joe Wilson came to be traveling around and asking questions about uranium. That makes it look even more like a conspiracy against the war and the White House.

That's what they were up to. Of course they were counting on the continuing dereliction and complicity of the corporate media to help deliver the head shot on Wilson, and if there had been no trial, their faith in the press as their trusted partner in the assassination would have been fully vindicated.

In addition to that explanation of motive, it's also a fundamental rule with these people to attack their critcs with staggering denunciations of politicized motives, dishonesty, and treason. It's like an instinct or reflex to lash out. They hit back with the worst thing they can dream up as fast as it can be slapped together and by the time newspapers no one reads are printing retractions and corrections on page A29, the target is long since destroyed and they have moved on to their next crimes. They were aware about Valerie Plame's status and aware that this was a sensitive legal area, but by this point in the Bush Administration they had already worked up to wholesale Constitutional violations. One little violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act or the Espionage Act could hardly be expected to make them stay up at night sweating. They own the Supreme Court--they were in the White House in the first place because of that-- and the Federal Judiciary has been heavily politicized in their favor since the 12 years of Reagan-Bush. The Congress was totally controlled by Republicans, who mostly stayed out of town partying and fundraising, no one was even watching them! Bush hadn't had even one run-in with the Congress which had provoked him to use his veto authority. Why wouldn't they feel untouchable? You don't fear the law much when you have arrangements like these. However, this time they picked on the wrong people and it went to trial.

[stonecoldsober]

32. It was simply to "punish" Wilson and send a message

to anyone else that they will play hardball.

[damntexdem]

33. Among other things, they wanted to create the impression that ...

Plame had SENT Wilson on the trip to Niger, that it was a personal junket and not a true investigation.

[Oilwellian]

37. Here's another good source...

It's a PDF:

http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/AMERICANJUDAS.pdf

[KenHodson]

38. I struggled with this too, here is my take

In order this to make sense, you have to change your mindset to that of a 2nd grader.

Envision:
recess bells
hairy armed lunch ladies
crab soccer in PE

Take your time; I'll wait.

Now, keep in mind you are 2nd grade and your social skills suck.

Pretend you saw the boy/girl you really have a crush on talking to some nerdy/smelly/yucky/whatever kid in the hall and it made you really sad.

Here's what comes to your mind since you learned how to "brainstorm" in kindegarten:

a. tattle on him to the teacher for something that didn't really happen
b. tell the person you have a crush on what a nerdy/smelly/whatever kid your nemesis really is
c. both

Now, what the administration did was d. none of the above. They, instead, told the teacher what a nerdy/smelly/yucky/whatever kid the nerdy/smelly/yucky/whatever kid really is.
Does it make any sense? No. Did it have the affect that they wanted? No. Was it childish? Yes!

[Mz Pip]

39. The Eric Cartman school of politics

was in play here. It was done for no other reason than they could and they wanted to screw Joe and Valerie over.

BushCo is full of people who don't act like grown-ups. They are 10 year old boys with power and nasty dispostions.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[KenHodson]

40. that's what I was trying to say, but you used much fewer words!

:toast:

[BoneDaddy]

41. It was an over all

threat to the CIA and the analysts who didn't agree with BushCo, and there were a good number who were vocal. After Plame was dissed, the message was sent.