Impeachment debate: I don't get it. The main reason for impeachment is not the high crimes and

[wiggs]

misdemeanors that WE ALL KNOW HAVE BEEN COMMITTED.

The main reason now is that we need thinking, honest adults in the WH to craft the best possible option for Iraq. The idiots there now have created this disaster...have been wrong every step of the way...have been proven to attract failure like a moth to flame. (I say that while having the opinion that they are not actually trying to do something constructive...I'm in a generous mood I guess) Do we now ask these guys, of whom it must be said that there can't possibly be one person in the United States who thinks honestly that they will do the right thing...do we ask these guys to solve a much tougher puzzle now than four years ago and come up with a plan that actually works???? Given that ALL options are bad, who is best equipped to choose the best least destructive option? The ONE THING WE KNOW FOR SURE IS THAT IT IS NOT...NOT THESE HEINOUS IDEOLOGS THAT CURRENTLY RESIDE IN THE WH!!! Honestly, they are the very LAST people we should be entrusting with the future of our country. Come on!

For the sake of the country and for the sake of the young men and women in Iraq, we must replace failed administrators in the WH with someone, anyone, who can analyze facts, seek input, weigh options, and make decisions that are best for the country and the world. We must do this right, frickin' now, if not sooner.

It must be clear to dc dems and republicans alike that any delay in getting appropriate decision makers in the WH is a deriliction of duty and a tragedy. I used to crave jail for these imposters in the WH, thinking that impeachment was too good. Now it is clear that Cheney and Bush should not be the focus of our attention. The focus should be on the future of our country, the fate of the Middle East, and the fate of our soldiers. If this is our focus then Bush and Cheney should be considered roadbumps in our headlong rush to solve our problems...not the end all and be all of our goals. And. January. 2009. Is. Too. Late.

Get them the hell out and let's get on with it. Anything less is unworthy, IMHO, and we are diminished as a nation if we spend one more minute on debating whether or not lying to congress is a high crime...or if we have enough votes for impeachment...or if impeachment would harm 2008 prospects...At the very least, an impeachment proceeding might hamstring them for a few months, a few weeks...even a few days would be worth it.

Am I right or have I had one too many cocktails tonight? Or am I right AND I've had too many cocktails? I think the latter. I'm pissed and I mean that in more ways than one.

[autorank]

1. You're right. They can't get us out and they may start a new war. K*R

You're doing just fine. The elaboration of the reasons for impeachment and the options is a critical
task. I have not heard this argument before, quite like this. So good for you!!!!!

[drm604]

2. Of course you're right. K&R

They do need some kind of legal basis for the impeachment, but you're correct that the ultimate reason this has to be done is for the future of the country and the world.

[Truthiness Inspector]

5. Exactly

Let's convict and impeach people because we "think" they should be convicted or impeached. At the same time we do this, oh, nevermind...

[TahitiNut]

3. Principled acts often have MANY foreseen desired results.

"Do The Right Thing" is a stance based on deontological ethics ... duty-based ethics. Choosing to to do a Thing based on desired results is a consequentialist ethical stance (i.e. "pragmatism").

There is often no single good "reason." This, I believe, is an important lesson not only for political perspective, but for historical perspective.

There are many simple hypothetical examples one can use. Leaping into a rushing river (or burning building) to save a child is the kind of example typically discussed in classroom settings. I tend to think of Viet Nam - and the oft-stated postures of "why we were there" - as though there were some single, all-encompassing 'reason.' I reject the stance that pretends there was some simple 'reason.' Each individual, often through a a chain of events, had their own ethical 'reason' for "us" going to Viet Nam and waging war. It ain't simple.

[Bitwit1234]

4. I'm postive that if they could get roves records

there would be all the evidence anybody needed to prove bush and cheney have committed impeachable acts.

[Senator]

6. You're Right -- Blood Drips Onto Their Hands Daily

And "Dereliction of Duty" is the correct description.

There is nothing to investigate. No smoking gun to locate. No need to "find out" anything not already known.

The regime admits its impeachable acts and just says they're not impeachable.

Just like they said we should fear "mushroom clouds," and said our treaty obligation to ban torture was "quaint," and said "mission accomplished," and said Saddam caused 9/11, and said they'd get Osama, and said the US Attys were incompetent, and said Libby's sentence was "extreme," and said they were complying with FISA, and said we were seeing the "last throes," and said we'd be met by flowers, and said Iraq oil would pay for war, and said the warning PDB was "historical," and said they had a "mandate," and on and on.

They just need to be shut up.

Only Impeachment ... can stop the treasonous lying.

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic, (and legal, electoral, diplomatic...) option.

We must get on with it.

----

[snot]

7. You're totally right; but so what should happen, step by step? I mean --

yes by all means we need to get them out -- I didn't realize there was any disagreement, at least here, about that -- but you seem to be worried about what would happen after that. I am too; do you have any suggestion re- what to do?

[wiggs]

8. Yeah, we're all worried about what would happen in the Middle East afterwards

but my point was I want the best people available to deal with it...not the worst. I don't know what they would come up with but at some point all we can do is get the smartest most savvy people on it and whatever happens, happens. Right now both sides seems to be stuck ideologically...the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO.