DU has helped me stop and think that what I say might be offensive.

[trumad]

Oh sure---I still stick my foot in my mouth--- and believe me, if I do it here, I get called on it.

When I came into DU in 2001, I said things then that I wouldn't say now. Some of my words were misogynist, some were homophobic, some were racist...now keep in mind... I said these words thinking that they were fine... I'm almost 50 so you can blame a little old school mentality for the things that I said. BUT I think becoming a better person includes understanding what is offensive to other people and making the corrections necessary not to offend.

This is why most of us here at DU shake our heads at the types of statements that guys like Joe Biden make. It just appears that that guys like Joe don't stop and think that maybe, just maybe what they are about to say is offensive. It would be like me meeting my dear DU friend Catwoman for the first time and after a couple of minutes of knowing her saying... You're so damn articulate. You know why I wouldn't say that? Because I know that there's a chance that she might be offended by my comment----sooooo.... my little brain will keep it from rolling out of my mouth.

It's like Rosie doing the China man accent... that was dumb... We frown because we think that Rosie should be smarter than that. Or Biden---when he made his 7/11 comment. We frown because he should be smarter than that. They're simply not stopping to reflect what could be offensive in their comments.

If you think that what you may say might be offensive... then simply don't say it.

[Balbus]

1. Offensive to who? Just certain people or anyone?

If I say Bush is a fucking idiot the way he's handling this whole Iraq thingy, should I not say that because it's offensive to Bush and Bush supporters? :shrug:

[annabanana]

3. Oh it's ok as long as you are INTENDING to call someone

out. It's me mother's milk to me, that.

[philosophie_en_rose]

6. No. That's about behavior.

You're attacking the state of being a dumbass dictator. But, unless you're defending offending someone because of race or gender or other status, I don't see how your point makes any sense at all.

[trumad]

8. He knows what I mean..he's just trying to be--- oh never mind.

[Missy M]

2. You're so right......

we should think before we speak. I do think there are some people who love to say offensive things, that's how they get their kicks. I guess they think its a way to get the attention they might not get otherwise.

[jobycom]

4. I heard last week that a term I've always called myself and used about others is offensive/racist.

Nick Saban told a joke using a phrase for someone from Louisiana. It's a term I've always used about myself. My parents told it to me, and use it, too. When I meet someone from Louisiana, we often use the term to express a common link.

But on a sports show involving some northerner, I heard it was a horrible, degrading, racist term, and that Saban was a bad, bad man for using it. Literally, that was the first time I'd ever heard anyone claim it was a bad word. Most who did claim so were from outside Louisiana, and most (not all) callers from Louisiana said "That's silly, we use the term all the time, it's not even racial, much less racist."

Saban apparently used it in a joke, the way people in Texas tell Aggie or redneck jokes.

As for Biden, it's not that I think he's racist, it's that I think he shows bad judgement and a lack of awareness of the issue with his racial gaffs--not just the "clean, articulate" comment, but also the one about needing an accent to shop in some store (I forget the details). He's not attuned to the issue, which implies he's out of touch, or that he's never bothered to adjust his attitudes as he's encountered race issues in the past. And, to me, it does imply that he has a view that assumes white is the norm, and everything else is a variation. Obama, to him, stands out because he's more "clean and articulate" than black candidates like Sharpton, Jackson, Mosley-Braun, etc. Accents and ethnic backgrounds stand out as notable features of a person's identity. I don't think he's bad--not like Reagan, for instance--but I don't think he's suitable for the job.

[trumad]

7. I hear you about Saban---but...some find it offensive.

<snip>
"It is highly offensive," Warren Perrin, president of the Council for Development of French in Louisiana, said on Thursday.

<sip>
Perrin has criticized the use of "coonass" well before Saban entered the picture. He referred questions about the word to a letter he wrote to the "225" magazine in Baton Rouge recently for using the term.

"The most insulting and derogatory term levied against Acadians is the term 'coonass,'" Perrin wrote. "The use of this offensive term re-affirms negative stereotypes and its vestiges of pre-civil rights era racial discrimination. This insulting slang was never a proud or complimentary term affixed to the Acadian people. We will not tolerate the use of this racial slur which has pejorative connotations."

Perrin was quoted in an Associated Press story on Wednesday saying, "I routinely state that the use of that term is highly offensive to descendants of Acadians, who are commonly referred to as Cajuns."

Not all Acadians agree with Perrin, however.

"That word doesn't upset me at all," said Comeaux High School football coach Brian Langlinais on Thursday. "I'm proud to be a Cajun coonass, and I'll die that way. I'm proud of my heritage. I am what I am. If I'm a coonass, I'm a coonass. It's just who we are."

Langlinais did say that he and many people he knows are upset with Saban for becoming Alabama's coach.

"We feel backstabbed by him," he said. "And coonasses don't forget anything. But that man did what he did to better himself and his situation. There's nothing wrong with that. We need to leave him alone."

When told that others, including coonasses themselves, do not have a problem with the term, Perrin said, "Everyone is entitled to their own bad taste and stupid opinions. You can always find somebody in Breaux Bridge with a bumper sticker that says, 'I'm a coonass and proud of it.' That doesn't make it right."
http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070203/SPORTS/702030344/1006

[jobycom]

10. I have always heard that the term didn't refer to Cajuns

My father, who isn't Cajun but tries to claim he is, always said it was a more general term than Cajun, and didn't refer to Acadians, just to everyone in Louisiana. That's how I've always used it. And like I said, until I heard this national host talking about it, I had never heard that it was an offensive term. I mean, it's like calling someone an Aggie--you can make it offensive in context, but on its own it isn't.

I think it may be a blue collar/white collar type of split, too. My dad is very blue collar. Most of the people from Louisiana who were calling this show and saying it was a bad word sounded white collar. The host (Cowlin Cowheard--whom I've almost never agreed with on anything else, anyway) even made a wisecrack that the smarter people calling his show were upset by it, and only the stupider ones weren't (showing his classist bias more than anything else, I thought).

Anyway, I'm on hold on using the term for a while, to see what happens, I guess. I'm not supposed to call myself a rebel anymore, or be proud of the Confederate flag anymore. I guess now I can't think of myself as a coonass anymore. Liberal is a bad word, too. One day I'll manage to be ashamed of everything I am. :)

[Igel]

16. Goes to show something that's been known for a

century, if not longer. Words only have the meanings that speakers and hearers give them. The problem comes when there's a mismatch, and the speaker means one thing and the hearer understands it to mean another thing. People currently privilege hearers over speakers when it comes to politics, showing how little they understand language itself.

The word 'shit' means ... either "excrement", in English, or "sewn" in Russian; it probably means other things in additional languages. When I heard my Czech-speaking ESL students say what could only have been 'cunt', I knew they weren't being offensive, they were just mimicking as best they could their Czech-influenced teacher's attempt at saying 'can't' in Estuary English. One could understand how the 18-year-olds in my Russian class would be narrow minded and not understand language, or how the American tourists in Prague would be unaware of how British English sounds with a Czech accent and their ignorance rendered forgiveable. Now, had they bragged about how smart they were, they'd have just been considered prideful idiots.

An old example from my own life is when I had to replace a fluorescent bulb. The instructions with the appliance talked about the need for a ballast in the replacement. Silly me, I assumed it was stupidity on the part of the person who wrote the instruction (printed in China, with grammatical mistakes here and there ... Chinese English). I could only conjecture that the speaker had no clue what 'ballast' meant--you know, the non-cargo weight in a ship. Then I looked up 'ballast' in a dictionary, and realized that this particular hearer or reader had a valid definition, but it wasn't the only definition, or the one I thought necessary. The instructions were correct; I showed myself pridefully ignorant.

Lesson: Unless it's clear the speaker means something offensive, consider whether or not s/he intended to be offensive. Speakers should try to avoid being offensive, and listeners should try to avoid taking offense--and they could then work out a decent compromise. Otherwise it's a dictatorship of one side or the other--and this progressive pretty much always hates dictatorships.

[Hoping4Change]

38. "People currently privilege hearers..." You've hit the nail on the head.

What a great post. To quote Jane Austen " should not take offense where non is intended". Nowadays few people follow that advise, instead many seem dead set finding offense where none exists.

[seabeyond]

5. i hear what you are saying. my brother says thinks like,

(had everyone over at my house and table full of kids eating. my niece was sittin on the floor eating her dessert. i said she was just fine sittin there) brother says.... thats right, females and dogs belong on the floor. he says shit like that all the time and when i have had enough and get pissed he tells me... just jokin. except he is controlling and hateful to all women, he isn't joking. he tells ME i am too sensitive and should get over it.

he lectured me on the game smear the queer. his son used that term in my house and i told him nicely, we dont talk like that in our house. my brother then calls me and chews me out that it isn't offensive and gays dont mind and i need to just get over it.

these people that say these offensive things, to offend telling me what i should and shouldn't be offended by really piss me off.

but then if i were to make a derogatory comment about male, or white male he would be the first to jump on my ass.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

9. I agree with what you are saying. We all need, from time to time,

need to be called on junk we say. I have never called my ex a son-of-a-bitch because that actually was calling his mother a name which doesn't describe her at all. However, I do call him a prick - that is much closer to home. I do try, there are so many stupid sayings we have heard and repeated until you stop and listen to what you are saying and realizing they are inappropriate. This is good.

That said, I was called on my phrasing of something yesterday and I still don't get how it was sexist, etc. Maybe someone can explain it to me. The thread was discussing Edwards' appearance on MTP. I was commenting on his also blaming the Clinton administration for his vote for the war. My point was the neocrazies will seize on this statement and that is all we will hear. Here is the offending statement -

This is mother's milk to KKKarl and John Edwards just offered up a tit.

This comment was offered up on that statement - And there's another problem with absolute cluelessness that Democrats will need to address if they want to win.

RAMPANT SEXIST BULLSHIT.


Honestly, was the implication that only WOMEN have milk, was it the word tit? I will accept my 30 lashes with a wet noodle - as I don't want to be guilty of sexist talk - please explain to me why this is so unseemly.

[SemperEadem]

29. actually, men can produce milk.

If they take domperidone, they too can produce and express milk.

[MedleyMisty]

11. Yay!

As someone who came to DU as a refugee from another political board after the hate speech finally got to be too much, it's nice to know that people here think about what they say and care about how it sounds.

[Mandate My Ass]

14. Welcome to DU, sleebarker

There are posters here who aren't so careful or willing to listen when someone calls them on offensive speech, but it's still a great place to be.

Jump in and enjoy yourself. :hi:

[KenHodson]

30. Yeah, welcome to DU, sleezeball!

[KenHodson]

31. sorry, offensive greeting

[Ian David]

12. Considering how many times I almost put you on ignore, you've gotten better.

I haven't hit the "alert" button on you in weeks, I think.

[trumad]

13. Oh I'll still get the alert button hit on me

I haven't said I've changed in political opinion...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. seconded.

[Ian David]

22. Then again, if I have him on ignore, I can't really hit "alert" on him anymore, can I? n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. lol.

:rofl:

[H2O Man]

15. Impeach Cheney. n/t

[Parche]

17. LIFE

Life is tooooo short to be so sensitive
Everyone says something to someone that might be taken 'offensive'
I have done it before, and people have said things to me
As long as the statement is not totally pure racist.

[KenHodson]

18. Amen - way too much energy spent on "not trying to offend"

Here's how the current system works.
Person One says something.
Person Two is offended by what Person One said.
Person One can apologize if compelled to do so.

Of course one should employ common sense when they speak. But holy crap there are a lot of people out there just waiting to be offended.

Consider case no. 1: Years ago, a fellow teacher told a disruptive teen that she was making some poor decisions. In this short sermon he told her "it's a tough road to hoe." Suffice to say, offended victim girl ran to offended victim mom whom went to the principal's office to accuse said teacher of calling her daughter a whore. True story.

Consider case no. 2: I always use the term "Native American" in lieu of Indian or American Indian because the latter two terms offend some. I would point out that I have Chippewa blood in my own veins. But one of the largest activist groups is called AIM. Why? Because it is a better acronym? True story.

If you offend someone inadvertantly, apologize if you see fit. But don't spend your time ensuring that you won't offend people - for that is a fool's pursuit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. sure we should just go around and be little racist homophobic sexist assholes

because other people are too sensitive.

:eyes:

[Parche]

23. HUH???

I dont get your reply, explain???

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. what i am saying is people often are offended because offensive things are said.

its very convenient to pass the blame to the victim without taking responsibility for being a bigot.

[Parche]

32. Offensive things

Yes, but sometimes offensive things are not said, and they get either turned around
or misquoted or heard the wrong way.........

[KenHodson]

28. There was a post last week "Should I be offended?"

HELL NO!
If one has to question (either to themself or to a forum like this) if they "should I be offended?" - then you most definately ARE NOT OFFENDED.
That posting came up in my mind over the weekend for some unknown reason, but I wish I had told that oversensitive, crybaby, victim "wannabe" (this is the correct term!) to grow a goddamn sack! Chrissakes!

[mainegreen]

19. Unless your post is "Kittens! Hugh11!!" you WILL offend someone here with every post.

:P

[AngryAmish]

25. You seem very clean to me.

[Dora]

26. You are so right.

I was called on the carpet once for something I said. Day-yum, it stung. I came out wiser for it, and grateful.

It's good to have our eyes opened for us once in a while.

[Karenina]

33. My ear training teacher began our classes with

"Engage brain before opening mouth."

[goclark]

34. I agree with you ~

Since we are all working for a common cause, we need to learn to work together.

That doesn't mean we all need to think alike but it sure would help if we would RESPECT the views of other Progressive Democrats.

[hlthe2b]

35. Sure... but along with this, I wish we could give each other

benefit of the doubt.... As Trumad points out, comments often are made without thinking and without ill will or malicious intent... How refreshing it would have been, if instead of stoking the inflammatory fires, the press had simply gone to Biden and asked him what he meant? :shrug:

[nashville_brook]

36. one of the really neat things about participating in discussions

is that we grow with every post.

we have WAY more interaction with a more DIVERSE community here than in the "real world" because here, we don't pick who hears us. no one comes to this style of interaction knowing exactly how to comport themselves. we are here to learn and grow.

[smoogatz]

37. "China Man"????!!!

*Ignore*

[Hoping4Change]

39. Dollars to donuts you wouldn't know beforehand whether something is offensive.

Jane Austen advised people not to take offense where none is intended. This is the better policy than what you are advocating. Too many people today seem to be trolling for ways to take offense. Reaction to Biden's comment about Obama being clean is a case in point, the reaction boggles me. People talking offense zoom in on one of dozens of meanings for clean. Gangsters declare others "clean" when others aren't packing guns; people are deemed to have clean driving records; plantiffs in civil actions can be deemed to have "unclean hands". The list is endless. Frankly I'd love to hear from one DUer who when nagging their kids to "clean" their rooms are in fact telling the kids to wash down the walls with Lysol.