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Government Set to Collect DNA From Persons Arrested but not Convicted

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ariesgem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:13 AM
Original message
Government Set to Collect DNA From Persons Arrested but not Convicted
Edited on Mon Feb-05-07 07:25 AM by ariesgem
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/nation/02/05/5dna.html
registration required

another link to a similar article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0702050159feb05,1,675985.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed


The Justice Department is finishing rules to allow a vast expansion of DNA gathering that will include most people arrested or detained by federal authorities, a move that would affect hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants each year, officials said.

The new forensic DNA sampling was authorized by Congress in a little-noticed amendment to a January 2006 renewal of the Violence Against Women Act, which provides protections and assistance for victims of sexual crimes. The amendment permits the collection of DNA from anyone under criminal arrest by federal authorities and from illegal immigrants detained by federal agents, by far the largest group to be affected by the new law.


Edited: to post the correct article and link
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, if it helps stop bad guys, nothing to worry about, right?
:sarcasm:
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. big brother loves you.
. . . crawling back under the bed now . . . . .:yoiks:
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is so damn bad for so many reasons
The one I was just thinking about was what happens when Bushco forwards the genetic information to health and life insurance companies secretly in order to aid them in becoming more precise about declining health coverage to someone with a genetic predisposition to certain expensive disorders.

When I was a kid, I heard about this thing called the Constitution and the Bill or Rights. Anyone know whatever happened to those?
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. From last week Seattle Times "Blood center to collect DNA of donors"
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003544880_blooddna28m0.html

For Defense Department "research"

---

Blood center to collect DNA of donors
By Carol M. Ostrom

Seattle Times staff reporter

For the first time, the Puget Sound Blood Center will begin collecting, testing and storing the DNA of blood donors.

Donors may opt out of the program, part of a study funded by the Defense Department to develop better ways of identifying blood types. And the Blood Center is firm that the effort will be limited to that purpose and not shared with the government.

Even so, privacy watchdogs worry that this latest move is just part of an increasingly long list of governments and other agencies that are storing people's DNA coding -- with few laws overseeing its use.

"There are no real practical limits on what can be done with that DNA information," said Barry Steinhardt, who heads the American Civil Liberties Union's national Technology and Liberty Project in Washington, D.C. "People ought to be very afraid that these samples are going to be used for some other purpose."

more at link.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Boy now THERE'S a way to begin killing citizens!
There's already a shortage at blood banks.

Now let's convince donors that NOTHING about them will remain confidential. I was a regular blood donor for several years before I got MS, and could never get a straight answer from anyone about how my injectables would affect my donation.

Damned if I'm going back now.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. There's no reason it wouldn't happen at some point
We love information, control, and artificiality. If we can create a completely sterile environment, where every action is predictable, and we know why everything happens, we'll only be too happy.

We own ourselves less and less.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Devil's Advocate
I don't like this either, but we do allow police to take fingerprints during the booking process. Isn't this along the same lines? Just wondering out loud, because I know that will be the biggest argument for DNA collection.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. see my post #4
it is happening elsewhere. And this isn't an "opt-in" effort - these are "optout" (as in read all the fine print and notice that this is buried somewhere and if you don't check the right box to "optout" your DNA is automatically collected) in that other program for the DOD - it is taken from blood donors.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. True, but isn't collecting personal data part of the booking process?
What I'm talking about specifically deals with the booking process. When you get arrested, your fingerprints are taken, and those prints are added to a national database - whether or not you're eventually convicted.
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. DNA is not "data"
And no, this is not the same as fingerprints.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. How so?
Technically, DNA is data - it goes into a database, and can be used at some point to match up to evidence. Just like fingerprints are used for.

As I said, I don't like it either, but the rational side of me says we need a better answer than "I just don't like it."
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. That's the problem, it's rational
As we attempt to mold the world into a perfect state, a step such as this makes absolutely perfect sense. The more we attempt to control, the more control is needed. Over time, a process like this DNA database will become normal, then one day it won't be enough(like the fingerprints are no longer sufficient). We still won't be quite safe enough, so the logical thing to do is then exert even more control somehow.
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. There's a great book that will help clarify this
Edited on Mon Feb-05-07 12:05 PM by ticapnews
Read They Thought They Were Free and you'll understand. Here are a couple of relevant passages:

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter."



"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and the smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked – if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in "43" had come immediately after the "German Firm" stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in "33". But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying "Jew swine," collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in – your nation, your people – is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."


You want to know what a future step is? Having a GPS chip planted in your arm. We're already giving them to our pets and the next thing you know we'll be giving them to kids (we may already be doing that). Won't you feel safer with a GPS chip in your arm? If you get lost, you can be found; if you are in trouble, you can be helped. Oh, sure Big Brother will always know where you are (not to mention your boss and your wife) but will you still need a better answer than "I just don't like it?" Have you not noticed how much life has changed in this country in the past few years? Even before 9/11 it had started, the events of that day have just sped it up. It's happened slowly, with little steps: airport searches, no-fly lists, orange alerts, new powers to the government, hoaxes and warnings cooked up to keep the population on edge. And the big one: the abolition of Habeus Corpus. Do you believe Habeus Corpus could have been done away with so easily without all those little steps leading up to it? How many steps do we take before we object? At what point do we say "Enough!" and tell Big Brother to get stuffed? If we don't do it now, we won't be able to do it later.



http://thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. An article was also in the NY Times about this,
but I don't have a link, and don't have time to go back and find it (gotta go to work). Know what happens when you get too many files? They get lost or mixed up or its impossible to find anything.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Isn't this the same thing as fingerprints?
:shrug:
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. I'm wondering the same thing. nt
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-05-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. It should only apply to those arrested for violent crimes
And if they are not convicted, the samples should be destroyed.
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