Raise your hand if you knew * was lying about the need to go to war in 2001.

[Skidmore]

*Hand up in the air here.*

I knew he was lying and shaping what he was telling the nation so that a war would be the only answer. I knew enough about his style to know that he was a dishonest person and that his persona masked much deceipt. If a person cannot be honest about who they are, they cannot be trusted to deal honestly with the nation. I knew. I didn't have access to classified information but was had read enough about the history of the region and * to understand what was happening. This is why the excuses for voting for the IWR don't pass the smell test for me. This is why excuses for not halting this debacle won't pass the smell test. This war based on lies needs to end. NOW. Not one more day. Not one more life. Not one more dollar. End it now! Bring them home!

Now raise your hand in solidarity and let us push back hard for peace.

[illinoisprogressive]

1. hand in air

I knew by the thud in my stomach. instinct.

[Democrats_win]

37. ALL Americans knew! Many WANTED to MURDER people!

[nolabels]

115. Slight correction, they wanted others to murder in the name of the USA

It was that something lacking in their life.

It was their inadequate composure they were feeling, the need to live on greed and contempt.

The fear of living in mediocrity and not having a clear shot of going anywhere.

It was need to do onto others so they could feel larger

Mostly and most of all, this feeling that they could be the ones who determine who was to live and die.

They where part of the DECIDER x(

[Pachamama]

188. Movement of the lips....

I knew he was lying just that way...but like you, it was an instinctive feeling and also looking at the facts that we did know to be true....it just wasn't adding up...

[bvar22]

230. I knew, so did these Democrats:

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent who courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq were:

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

[RiverStone]

311. They knew, most of us knew...being an IWR vote apologist

plays second fiddle to being opposed to it from the get-go.

My first tier candidates (partially a wish-list) have nothing to apologize about. Period!

Gore, Kucinich, Clark, Obama, Feingold - all knew it was wrong too! :applause:

[Jack Rabbit]

2. Raises hand

:hi:

[goddess40]

3. hand in air x 5

Everyone in my house knew. We were already on the street protesting every Friday during the run up to that illegal, immoral and unethical invasion.

Edit: Right from the start I didn't and still don't know how our congressmen and women didn't know too. If I didn't know Congressman Obey and Sen. Feingold were honest men I wouldn't believe that they voted to give bush so much latitude. But then again they really didn't - bush just violated the agreement and started his murderous rampage.

[roody]

Feingold voted for IWR???!!!

[Bucky]

66. I don't think so. But I do think that Wellstone voted yes.

That was a huge surprise.

[roody]

67. Wellstone? Impossible, he was offed soon after.

[kikiek]

203. He was to introduce a bill that would prevent govt contracts going to companies that avoided paying

US taxes by off shoring their company address. Halliburton (of the Cayman Islands) wouldn't have been able to get their billions of dollars of contracts. I do think he could very well have been offed. (Actually if I'm not mistaken it was introduced and after his death it also died. Things were fuzzy then. I was devastated and gave up on our country.)

[Pastiche423]

75. Wrong! Wellstone voted NAY

<----- me raising my hand.

[Crunchy Frog]

78. Paul Wellstone voted NO. n/t

[myrna minx]

226. Wellstone voted ney.

He made his announcement that he was going to vote ney at a little fundraiser in Uptown Minneapolis. That was the very last time I ever saw the Senator in person. :cry:

On edit: I knew those weasels were lying. I trusted Well stone's weighing of the evidence. He was in the campaign of his life. People thought that he was committing political suicide with his ney vote, but actually, his poll numbers jumped up as a result. He would have won his seat back. :cry:

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

125. for the record:FEINGOLD & WELLSTONE voted NO

.

[Tom Joad]

297. Seems they got a decent education. This is to their credit, but it was a no-brainer

I certainly mourn the passing of Wellstone, he was a great Democrat, a great American.

Still, how stupid did you have to be to think Bush would not misuse this???

[Just-plain-Kathy]

258. The list above is of who voted against it...n/t

[roody]

58. I listen to independent radio, so I knew.

[scarletwoman]

4. hand in air -- and k & r (nt)

[exlrrp]

180. Both hands in air here

I knew and so did my wife
I strongly suspected bush was lying (and was proven right there) but I KNEW there was nothing good for the US to go to war and try hold that country (And was proven right there also)

[proud patriot]

5. my hand is raised

[TahitiNut]

136. As you can see ...

[Ian David]

6. I thought he was lying until Collin Powell convinced me

And then I saw the looting of the art museums and alleged "weapons sites," and knew we'd been punked.

[Bucky]

59. He remains the biggest disappointment of this entire administration

I really think Powell is an honorable man and believed the lies they fed him. But his judgment in trusting the Bushies on Iraq was terrible and the scale of that error can be measured in the death tallies in this completely preventable war. When the country needed him to speak up, he was silent. When history tested his character, he flunked the test.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

316. Powell did NOT believe them!

Several books in the past few years have talked about how, when Powell was given the info to push before the UN, he looked at the stuff and knew it was a bunch of crap.

At that point, an honorable man would have told them to stuff it and gone straight to the media to expose the Bush crew. But Powell is not an honorable man, and went before the world and told their lies for them.

[roody]

138. They covered up the mural "Guernica" so no one

would think about human suffering. Powell has stunk for a long time.

[Hosnon]

7. Nope. My beef with the war was its illegality. I didn't believe that Iraq

posed a threat so the war was illegal under the U.N. Charter via Article VI of the U.S. Constitution.

I guess you could say I thought he was lying about the threat from Iraq.

[Maat]

145. Me, neither.

At the time, I was in law school learning about self-defense and defense of others as the only situations in which deadly force (in response to imminent deadly force) was potentially permitted. Then I studied the U.N. rules (similar concepts). My hubby and I also were well aware of contract law. We turned to each other and said, "Oh, Big Oil needs more favorable PSA's - Profit-sharing agreements, and oil profits tied to the dollar. Hussein must not be singing their tune." Tragically, that was the case. We knew that the invasion was illegal, immoral, and unnecessary.

[Hosnon]

156. Yeah, it just seemed so obvious (legally).

Article VI makes the U.N. Charter supreme law. It provides for military action in two instances: 1) self-defense and 2) when the U.N. approves it.

Of course, a Treaty can't amend the Constitution so Bush would not violate Article VI if it abrogated any of his Constitutional authority, such as the authority to defend the nation from attack. But then again, that is another way of saying self-defense (though it wouldn't have to be justified pursuant to the U.N. Charter).

Either self-defense or approval. There was no approval and Iraq was not connected to 9/11. As a result, President Bush violated the Constitution by invading Iraq.

Did he lie? Dunno...

[janetle]

227. "No Iraq War"

Yes--both of my hands in the air. As an attorney, I believed the war to be illegal and contrary to American policy of non-invasion. I remember being impressed with Colin Powell but I still felt diplomatic efforts with the UN were absolutely required. I was telling all of my relatives and friends that this would open Pandora's Box and Bush didn't have a clue what he was doing. Finally, I ended up in the streets of Seattle with my "No Iraq War" sign protesting--yes, me a middle aged, suburban, church going Mom.

I knew Bush was a warrior and would take the IWR as permission to invade. So if little 'ole me knew this--why didn't the you know who Democrats??

[Maat]

305. If we are a signatory to a UN Article .. which we are ..

it is as much our law, as treaties are, as any statute, as you have noted (in my humble opinion, after law school; they drove that into our heads again and again). There was no UN approval, and the invasion was not the result of an attempt at either self-defense from IMMINENT DEADLY attack, nor defense of others from such.

Although Bush is Commander-in-Chief, his military actions are theoretically very limited without Congressional authorization.

So, at the very least, Booosh violated international law, and, hence, OUR law.

I would argue he also violated domestic law as the original Iraqi War Resoluton conditions were NOT met at the time of invasion.

It is my understanding that he rushed through belated Congressional approval AFTER the invasion (Frist and his buddies fixed things).

So, I believe that we are in agreement - he violated the law more than one way!

Moreover, one of my favorite professors out here of Thomas Jefferson Law School agrees (Prof. Marjorie Cohen)!

[kath]

8. I knew he was lying. And it pisses me off to no end that so damned many of

those who are supposed to represent us in the House and Senate either didn't know or didn't care that he was lying.

[depakid]

166. Anyone who could read knew damn well that Iraq was not a threat

and anyone with any brains knew we'd end up in the middle of a civil war.

[indepat]

257. Anyone who listened to W's words knew from the git-go pre-emptive war was first and only option

considered.

[Bjornsdotter]

9. Hand is waving high

...and couldn't believe it when others believed in *.

Cheers

[lligrd]

10. Up, Up, Up

Sadly, knowing it and doing something to stop it are two different things.

[Breeze54]

11. Hand held high!

K & R'd

:kick:

[A Brand New World]

12. I knew he was lying! Listening to Scott Ritter convinced me of it.

And I told my husband we'd be in the middle of WWIII before he was done. If he strikes Iran, my prediction will be right-on.

[checks-n-balances]

81. Scott Ritter on Today Show + 2002 SOTU 'Axis of Evil' speech

Up to that point, I had been reluctantly supportive of gwb after 9/11, like most everybody else. But in his SOTU I knew he was laying the groundwork for war in his wording and I was so appalled at the outrageously hateful tone of that speech. I had never heard anyone in the Exec. branch speak so provokingly to other nations before - just out of the blue and, to my knowledge, they hadn't really done anything to deserve those threats.

I know that was January 2002, but I'm trying to remember when it was that I heard Scott Ritter talking about no WMDs being there. (Anybody remember?) That really tore it for me.

On Edit: Wrong date

[mnhtnbb]

140. Once a liar, always a liar. I knew. I believed those who had been there with UN

[BlooInBloo]

13. (hand not raised)

My mistake.

(It was the audacity of the "they're spinning out of whole cloth" hypothesis that told against it to me. Won't make that mistake again.)

[Danascot]

116. It takes courage and character

to admit a mistake. You are to be commended. I suspect some of the raised hands here weren't as prescient as they claim.

[DRoseDARs]

255. Same here. I suspected something was amiss and I gave them the benefit of the doubt...

...but when Colin Powell went before the UN with his little dog-and-pony show I knew it was all crap at best, criminal and treasonous in reality. Oddly enough, I lost all respect for Powell then too. His little 'Oh, I thought what I was told to say wasn't particularly the full truth...' admission a while back was pitiful and showed just how much integrity the man had: Zero.

[MiniMe]

14. Raises hand. I said that to some people before the election

My prediction was that we would be at war with Iraq within a year of Shrub taking office. I was off by a year, but then we did have a little distraction in there.

[YvonneCa]

87. Yep...

...during Election 2000...he was mentioning Saddam...I knew it then. Hoped I was wrong. :(

[kath]

113. Yep - I knew even before he got into office that he would get us in a war with

Eye-rack.

[EstimatedProphet]

15. Me

It really was obvious to anyone who was listening.

[ima_sinnic]

16. hand up--the very 1st time he mentioned Iraq, which might have been 9/12/01

I knew he was going to start a war. I could tell after that that everything else was a lie and that war was inevitable. I still remember how phony he sounded, about 2 weeks after he 1st mentioned Iraq, that he had "tried everything" but "negotiations" had "failed." Anybody who couldn't see through that phony crap was a total MORON.

[laundry_queen]

94. That's when I figured it out too.

I sort of bought into the whole Afghanistan thing at first, but the first moment I heard him mention Iraq, I just knew he was full of shit and the U.S., like it or not, was going to war with them. See, being in Canada and actually having a somewhat free press, I knew that there was no Iraq connection to 9/11. So it was pretty obvious to me at that point he just had a hard on for war in Iraq, no matter what.

[Raksha]

154. You didn't have to be in Canada.

Anyone in America with half a brain could figure it out too, in spite of the corporate media.

[laundry_queen]

165. What I meant was

that before then I wasn't really interested in the whole political thing. I was pretty much a sheeple and had I lived in the U.S. and not Canada, I probably wouldn't have figured it out quite so quickly.

[gilpo]

17. Me to...

I argued with everybody around me. Being right here still fucking sucks.

[WinkyDink]

18. Oh, hell, yes.

[eleny]

19. yup

[flyarm]

20. HAND IN AIR WAVING PROFUSELY!!...MAKE THAT A .HELL YES..!!

[NRaleighLiberal]

21. My, my wife's, my daughther's hands all raised high. nt

[mondo joe]

22. Hand UP and UP HIGH!

[Swamp Rat]

23. Yes, and I let everyone around me know exactly what I thought too.

[Frustratedlady]

24. I didn't believe Cheney or Bush until Colin Powell made his presentation

and that sold me.

[yorkiemommie1]

25. Everybody at my work knew

except two.

[JohnnyLib2]

26. Yes. Dominant thoughts were "holy war" and "Viet Nam"

and a very sickly feeling, which has gotten worse and worse.

[Art_from_Ark]

27. Ever since he ran to Deadeye's hunting buddy on the USSC

to stop the counting of votes, I knew he was bad news.

So, yes, I've got my hand raised.

[Nite Owl]

28. My oldest son and his friends

were casting their first vote in 2000. I registered many of them to vote and told them that they had better vote for Gore because a vote for * meant war and they would be the ones going off to fight it. I remember the puzzled looks but they did vote for Gore. The clues were all there besides the fact that repukes just love war.

[The Wielding Truth]

29. Hated when he sat and read instead of ordering clearing of skies

on 9/11. I hated when he pushed Powell out there to lie to the UN. I hated when he challenged and threatened Iraq, Iran, and North Korea with his axis of evil speech. I hated when he and Cheney threw out the charges that Alqaeda and Saddam were in bed together. I knew it was a bunch of @#$#^.Hey if it stunk to me, why didn't it stink to our Senators?

I have never stopped yapping to anyone who would listen, that the rotten smell of bad government in this country is stronger than the stink being generated by terrorism around the world.

My hands and my heart are raised for impeachment, government responsibility, and world understanding.

[MissWaverly]

30. I thought so

he was like a carnival barker, hurry, hurry, hurry step right up and go to war, he didn't
want to wait for the UN, nobody, it was like he told the UN to back us and then rushed
in there. I could not understand why there was such a need to rush the war and thought
something was fishy.

[Canuckistanian]

95. That was my biggest concern - the rush to war.

I kept thinking, this is bullshit. Saddam had had 8 years or so to rebuild his tattered military. He didn't. Then why would he make WMDs and why had no one noticed this before Bush? Yet the Monkeyboy made it seem like America was doomed unless Iraq was attacked immediately.

Then, all the bullshit stories started trickling out. Aluminum tubes. Mobile baloon bioweapons labs. Mohammed Atta meeting with Saddam's general. The Niger yellowcake faked document. All swiftly and thoroughly debunked.

I smelled a rat. And it wasn't pleasant.

[MissWaverly]

280. agree, esp. when they said we can't wait for the UN inspectors

Why not, if you wanted world support for what you planned to do, why wouldn't you want
it validated UNLESS you knew that it wouldn't be validated.

[boobooday]

31. Standing on the street corner for a year with my hand in the air

Along with a lot of other people who knew the whole thing was BS.

:patriot:

[hlthe2b]

32. Of course... DUers had our eyes open

and were not swayed by his crapola..

[Zhade]

33. I knew it because HE STOLE HIS WAY INTO POWER!

That marked him as a liar and a cheat from the start.

It's why DU friggin EXISTS.

Yet some trusted him? Bullshit.

[senseandsensibility]

34. Both hands raised

One for me and one for my hubby, and neither of us were particularly well informed. We certainly didn't have any inside information that wasn't available to anyone who was interested. The difference is our information did not come exclusively from the corporate news media.

[tnlefty]

35. Raising hand,

and I remember being called unpatriotic, an "america hater", and all kinds of names for trying to get accurate information to people.

[Scout]

36. hand in the air here

:hi:

:patriot:

[peacetalksforall]

38. Hand raised high and many words written

[sweetheart]

39. hands k & r

I want an investigation using proper forensics of motive, means, & benefactors.

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=218&topic_id=71&mesg_id=71

[Jane Austin]

40. Hand in air, here!

I told everybody who would listen, and I got slammed on a dog list I'm on. There were only two or three of us and fifty or sixty of them, and boy were they loud and self-righteous.

Everything I feared - - mangled, mentally damaged soldiers, crushing civilian deaths and a sectarian war - - has come true, and I'm just little ol' me. How come our smart Senators fell for it?

BTW, I saw it coming early in the summer of 2002 as BushCo ramped up the Iraq blather. It was so obvious: they never mentioned Iraq before that summer, and then it became a daily drumbeat. It's the same thing we're seeing now about Iran.

For that matter, I distinctly remember hearing in May, June and July of 2001 about all the "chatter" the CIA was reporting. There was talk on regular news stations that I watched of the possibility of an impending terrorist attack on America or American interests abroad.

It scared me, and I kept thinking about it all through that summer of All Chandra (Levy) All The Time, and all the shark attacks.

Then when 9-11 happenned, everybody was so surprised. Why? Regular radio and tv news had been talking about it in May and June.

[John Q. Citizen]

41. I knew I knew!

[rosesaylavee]

42. Hand in air

and knew that Colin Powell was using very dated info from the first Gulf War to make his point... because of the Internet. (Thanks for making it available to me, the average person, Al Gore)

Had to be convinced that 9/11 was *'s doing too. Came to that much later.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. .

:hi:

[Cabcere]

44. *raises hand halfway*

I was somewhat on board with the "war on terror" thing when we went to Afghanistan "to get Osama bin Laden." That, at least, made some sense to me, as a fifteen-year-old, although I wasn't 100% sure about it. He lost me at Iraq, though...I still don't understand what that had to do with 9/11? :shrug: (And yes, I know the answer is probably "nothing." Bit of a rhetorical question. ;))

[jgraz]

45. If it's OK with you, I'll just put up one finger

guess which one.

[barbtries]

46. absolutely i knew

in fact i knew when gw was running that if he was president he would throw a war. he has met and exceeded my most dire doomsaying.

[razors edge]

47. Two words, one name...

Scott Ritter.

[prairierose]

48. Hand waay up in the air....

I knew he was lying, I knew it was a war for oil and profiteering and I knew it was illegal. I do not have access to any classified information, just the internets and I knew all of those things. I really do not believe there is any excuse for our representatives who had more information than I did.

[NNN0LHI]

49. After the UN weapons inspectors went in and couldn't find anything I knew he was lying

That was after the IWR vote though.

Don

[SharonAnn]

146. Yep! I thought he was lying before that, but was sure after that.

[Wickerman]

50. way up

not sure the case was even ever made for Afghanistan, actually. :shrug:

I think war is a pretty freakin' serious thing and not to be entered into lightly. Guess I am funny that way.

[PATRICK]

51. Absolutely lying about every detail, but

Everyone, including Saddam's OWN circle thought he had something in reserve. Nada. All that Halliburton(Cheney) had invested in planting prtetexts were gone long ago. Not even any strategy remotely prepared outside the usual except for a few minor strategies like a sneaky tunnel under the airport, maybe. The fierce resistance did offer some conventional warfare surprises but I think they learned the hard way that they expended too many lives uselessly. The biggest "surprise" was that instead of getting slaughtered or surrendering they melted back into the population.

Living to fight another day. The secret weapon we found.

[tibbiit]

52. i knew he was lying

it was all lies. It was all here on DU.
tib

[mw]

53. Me, 1/2+ of America, and 9/10ths of the world: hands are up

France, Russia, Germany, the UN, and half of America tried to tell Chimpleton: don't do it.

[mdmc]

54. I actually thought that Iraq had wmd. We sold it to them, they used it

I opposed the war because I knew that a stable, pro west, unified, democrat Iraq would require 5 decades of occupation to achieve.

In order to bring them home, we need to admit that we lost the fight for a stable, pro west, unified, democratic Iraq. Once we admit that we lost the neo-con dream, we can withdraw.

[NNN0LHI]

73. Me too

I thought the UN weapons inspectors would be tripping over WMDs as they got off the plane in Baghdad. When they couldn't find anything after a couple of weeks I was convinced I had been bamboozled.

Don

[mdmc]

88. I figured that Saddam had them at one time

Rummy sold them to him.
Saddam used them against Iran.
USA approved.
20 years later, Saddam is like, "How can I get more of that stuff?"
Chemical Ali is tasked with trying to make it.
Scott Ritter is tasked with finding wmd, or proving that wmd do not exist.

I think that we knew that no wmd existed with a 90 - 96% rate of certainty.

9-11-01 made 96% no iraqi-wmd certainty unacceptable. We needed 100% certainty.

I believed that we needed to further the weapons inspections and use diplomacy. If we needed to overthrow Saddam, we needed to do it as a last resort. Then we needed to provide clear objectives and overwhelming force (including UN approval and worldwide coalition support).

Anyway, :toast:

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

55. Hand in air here, marched for peace

nm

[onecent]

56. Raised Hand here. Someone replayed a speech of him talking about

going to war with Iraq...and it was creepy how his voice got all Reagan like .... Everyone in the goddamn country was thrilled about it. Our local KC newspaper put flags in the sunday paper for you to hang on your door or window (my husband is very patriotic)...I didn't say anything cuz he was "one of them" at that time.

He's a democrat, but B*** had him going just like all the lemmings.,...AND my husband has had alot more confidence in the media than I've EVER had. I think the media is our biggest problem...but that's another story....he's learning... Thank God.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

57. That would be a...

hell, yes

[liberalEd]

60. It was clear that he was lying when he said he didn't want war

He was practically drooling at the idea.

[rainy]

61. hand up!

[Hissyspit]

62. Yeah, have to say my mouth was agape that so many were buying the bullshit.

Republicans in general are always wrong. That's why Limpball and O'Lielly's shows are filled with stuff they make up.

[whathappened]

63. all i needed to do was look

at how many years of fighting have been going on in the middle east , it has never in my life time had any peace

[Pacifist Patriot]

64. I raise my hand and offer my sister's as well.

Both of us knew this was utter bullshit from day 1.

[Bucky]

65. I wasn't convinced we'd actually go to war until Spring 2002.

It was turly a crazy experience, watching that 10 month long slow motion train wreck misnamed the "run up to the war."

[sweetheart]

68. Afganistan happened in 2001??? ? nt

[Bucky]

120. Of course it did! Afghanistan was a natural. As Al Franken once said...

"Hell, Nader would've done Afghanistan." I know they chatted about Iraq prior to Afghanistan, but the serious noise about the Axis of Evil didn't really start until 2002, with the SotU speech. That's when I started to realize they were going to do an oil grab. It wasn't for another couple of months that I realized they were just stalling for time, waiting for the best weather and to see if Powell could get the "whip count" out of the UN before going bonkers on the region.

[ContraBass Black]

69. .

:hi:

[femmocrat]

70. Yes... I knew it on 9/12.

I remember telling my son, "There is going to be a war." Plus I knew Cheney was a war-monger and figured he was pulling the strings.

[Bonhomme Richard]

71. Here's another one.

YOU COULD CHECK OLD THREADS.

[Nictuku]

72. Lots of People did Fiore for instance...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2002/09/11/fioreremember.DTL

[otohara]

74. Didn't Believe A Word

they were spewing

[Peanutcat]

76. Raises hand!

[Decruiter]

77. and then some! n/t

[SecularMotion]

79. I knew *raises hand*

I heard the truth from Amy Goodman and Democracy Now.
Thanks Amy

[Crunchy Frog]

80. It was in the fall of 2002 that they really started banging the drums for war IIRC.

And no, I didn't buy it. I wasn't even reading DU or other liberal internet sites, or reading or listening to alternative media. It just didn't pass my smell test. There were too many inconsistencies and obvious attempts at manipulation.

[nebenaube]

82. from day one! n/t

[momster]

83. Just Call Me Cassandra

I told family that we were heading to war with Iraq the minute George started trumpeting the whole WMD crapfest. Everyone said 'Saddam will give up his weapons." I said, "He doesn't have any weapons. How can he give up what he doesn't have?" Everyone said "but the President said he's gottem." I said, "He's lying". Nobody believed me.

Now they'll bring up politics...I'll tell 'em what I know...they'll say 'I don't want to talk about it.' Then why do you bring it up?

[I Have A Dream]

84. Count me in. I had realized by that point that the man was a pathological liar.

n/t

[Canuckistanian]

85. Knew it all along

From the start, it didn't make sense. Why the rush to war? Why would Saddam even have these "WMD"? (I always hated that acronym)?

The missile batteries had all been destroyed after the 1st Gulf war. UN inspectors were crawling all over the countryside and finding nothing significant. There was NO functional Air Force. The Republican Guard had been decimated. "No-fly zones" and economic sanctions themselves would kill off any major military ambitions. Scott Ritter told us all this long before the war started.

And most telling of all, no intelligence that anything big was happening. Even if there were no spies on the ground in Iraq, technology could have told us of any military build-up it there had been one.

Satellites, "Keyhole" radio spying, and sensitive land-based detectors would have outed any such program.
If satellites could find submarines in the middle of the ocean because of their heat blooms, then nothing could hide a major weapons program.

This war was based on pure snake oil.

[donco6]

86. Raising hand very high. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. Me! Me! Me! Hand and head held high! eom

[Stinky The Clown]

90. Well ..... du-UH! **Hand Up Here*

I predicted it before the son of a bitch was even (s)elected ..... 1999.

[moodforaday]

91. Absolutely

Those were the days, remember, when you could still see Scott Ritter on CNN. Between him, Hans Blix, and whatr Camel Hussein was supposed to tell the US after he'd defected, it was prtty obvious what was going on.

Now what worries me that at the time I didn't quite believe Bush was really prepared to go in and that no-one was going to check him out on the WMD issue. But he did, and no-one in the MSM did. Now the story is repeating itself, except this time Bush is going in because of a possible future threat. I believe there is no threat, but again I'm hte minority. And you can't verify a "possible future threat" after the fact.

[Pastiche423]

92. All of the Bryd Watchers knew!

One day I am going to search for all of the Bryd Watching threads and finally bookmark them. (September - October 11, 2002)

[sakabatou]

93. Back then I didn't care about politics until about 2 to 3 years later

So I can't say. Though in hindsight, I wish I did.

[GreenPoet64]

96. Hand's up here & I regret . . .

that my sister and I argued about that fact and our relationship has never been the same. I was out of work and had a lot of time to read the internet and various news sources. I realized how much news that was not being reported in US and I was convinced that our news media was becoming a propaganda machine. Anyhow we argued and she has talked to me on maybe a couple of occasions since. Very sad. I keep hoping that she will see I was simply trying to warn her that this administration is dangerous and that I feared for our country. I keep hoping.

[in_cog_ni_to]

97. I knew he was lying. I knew they were ALL lying. Why didn't Congress?

:grr:

[Greyhound]

173. They all knew, they really aren't that stupid. All they though about was how

easy it is to be re-elected during a war, oh, and how much $$$ can be made.

[UTUSN]

98. Does "DUH" count???!!!!1 n/t

[lonestarnot]

99. Raising both hands!

That fucker has lied with every breath he's ever taken in his life.

[nicknameless]

100. I knew.

Because of Scott Ritter, the weapons inspectors, Senator Byrd, Ray Taliaferro’s posting of PNAC’s plan for endless war and empire, and because Bin Laden and Saddam were pretty much ideological opposites.

Edited to add:

I knew because we had been attacked by a handful of individuals –- not by a country.
I knew because of the crap being pulled by bushco –- bugging the offices of UN members.
I knew because of the plan they called “shock and awe”. Even John McLaughlin said he thought it was sickening.
I knew because, leading up to the invasion, teeveee programs paraded around the mass murder equipment bushco planned to use. War is a tragedy and should only be a last resort. But what was being shown on teeveee was like a psycho-killer circle jerk.
I knew because of the oil interests, and this was the Oil Administration.
(After the invasion was underway, all of the announcements about “victory” I heard were about securing oil fields.)

[JerseygirlCT]

101. Yup. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

102. Hands down.

"go to war in 2001"?

We'd been at war in Iraq since 1991. Bush the Second just turned up the heat that was started by Bush the First, then kept simmering by Clinton the First.

Hoping it ends soon. Sixteen years is probably enough.

[dorkulon]

103. A great link for all of us who knew.

http://buffalobeast.com/95/operationtoldyouso.htm

[sammythecat]

104. Hand way up

[liberal renegade]

108. hand held high

with the middle finger salute...:hi:

[Individualist]

105. hand raised

[Beam Me Up]

106. Well, DUH

And the only reason anyone ever took him seriously was because of 9/11.

And how many here are ready to broach the truth of that unmentionable subject?

[NMDemDist2]

107. !

it was on places like Democracy Now! that is was all a big lie

[PassingFair]

109. Slapping sky here!

I had to pull my car over as the Senate roll call was read giving
Bushler authorization to kill Iraqis for their oil.

I was SOBBING as one by one, the pukes and half of our dems shamefully
set sail for slaughter and plunder in the Middle East.

We will NEVER live it down.

[snot]

110. Count me. And wrote and marched against it.

It wasn't that hard to figure out -- all the right objections and questions were raised in public discussion, though downplayed by the U.S. corporate media. The only answer the * admin. had then was, "we know more that we can't tell you about." I'd already seen enough to be skeptical about that, to believe if they really had anything more, there was no way they'd have held it back.

[Richard Steele]

111. Ayup. nm

[LonelyLRLiberal]

112. Hand up here. Just takes a bit of common sense.

It also helps if you are not pushing an agenda to try to dominate the world and take over all the oil for your buddies.

[Quantess]

114. Yes, pretty much.

I wasn't paying attention in 2001. In late 2002, I agreed the whole thing was ridiculous and I figured it would all blow over. By early 2003, I was hopping mad because it was looking more and more clear that Bush was going to invade Iraq.

I never thought a military invasion was justified.

[burrowowl]

117. Hand held HIGH!

And the Tubes and the mobile bio labs, give me a fucking break, I mean how stupid can you be!Edit: To add during the 12 years around 20,000 bombing sorties, what the HELL was LEFT!?!?!?

[Danascot]

118. I couldn't believe he was nominated

I was stunned when he was installed by the Supremes. I was even more stunned when he was (maybe) reelected. I was talking about the emperor's lack of clothes from the beginning. But I admit I had no idea of how bad he would actually turn out to be. I thought he was too incompetent to screw up the country so thoroughly.

Molly tried to warn us. From "Shrub", published 10/2000:

"Beginning with his admission to the Texas National Guard during the Vietnam War (where he bypassed a waiting list of about 100,000), the authors go on to deconstruct his losing congressional bid, his failed career as an oil executive, and his role as managing partner of the Texas Rangers baseball team, revealing how he was helped every step of the way by wealthy and influential friends of the family. Ever popular, Dubya has always been good at rounding up powerful players to bankroll a variety of ventures, including political campaigns. For this reason, explain the authors, along with his lineage and social status, Bush's primary allegiance is to the business community. While his speeches may deal with the "entertainment issues" of "God, guns, and gays," Bush is a "wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America," they write. They further point out that Texas ranks near the bottom of the nation in terms of a number of social categories, such as poverty, health insurance for children, and pollution, spearing the governor for his less-than-compassionate conservatism."

[mmonk]

119. Me. I spoke to many in my extended family

and started emailing friends information on Iraq. I told them he wasn't looking for diplomacy with force, that he just wanted to go to war.

[Initech]

121. He's been a liar from day one.

[Poiuyt]

122. Of course. He had been talking about invading even before 9/11

[ms liberty]

123. Hand in air, waving...

I tried to tell people - and the day after the Iraq war began I got my new car keyed, after I told someone that we shouldn't be going to war, that there were no WMD's or mobile weapons labs, or uranium or aluminum tubes...

Unfortunately, in this situation there's no joy in being right.

[nonconformist]

124. Absolutely, and I told everyone that would listen and got in lots of debates

Guess what, I was fucking right.

[Dean Martin]

126. Hand in air

In fact, both me and a friend of mine (who I think is on here too somewhere) hollered about it where we used to work and were shouted down by all of the flagwavers in our former office. They got mad at us when we said this was all about taking Iraq's oil and had nothing to do with 9-11 or WMD's. I wonder what those jerks that blindly waved the flag are saying now.

[mod mom]

127. Hand up. My family first attended anti war rallies prior to the beginning and

unfortunately we have another coming up next month.

[Penndems]

128. Vigorously waiving both hands in the air.

I knew.

[sojourner]

129. can't get over people saying they "were fooled". the evidence was there loud and clear.

the ONLY thing that gave me pause was Powell's testimony. But it wasn't long before he was proved a liar.....
this hand is waving high........

[doc03]

130. Hands up! WMDs yes because we gave them WMDs.

I think you had to be a moron not to see they were going out of their way to exaggerate the threat. I mean how could anyone believe they were going to drop a nuke on us from a remote controlled plane and what did Condi Rice say 20 minutes or something from a mushroom cloud that is one fast model airplane.

[WritersBlock]

131. Hand up waving big. Never doubted for a second that he was lying through his teeth.

Said it to everyone I knew, and a good fair few whom I didn't know. Caused a huge rift with certain of my relatives; that still hasn't healed.

The most recent person I said it to was an aide to my Republican Congressman couple of days ago.

[Patsy Stone]

132. I knew on January 20, 2001 he was going back into Iraq

I just didn't know how.

[neebob]

133. Me me me!

I knew it when he stood on the rubble pile with the bullhorn.

[zulchzulu]

134. Both hands waving and feet curling while doing to hokey-pokey

It was pretty obvious to me and over half a million protestors in SF at the time....

[Zorra]

135. Hand up. Heck, I knew he was going to allow a terrorist attack on our soil.

I left the country right after protesting his inauguration.

[roody]

137. Kucinich addressed this one week ago Sat. night

in SF. He said that he grew up small on the city streets of Cleveland and he knows when he is being hustled. He said that NO evidence was presented to back up the claims. (Paraphrase.)

[Zorra]

139. He sure did. Check this out:

The Bloodstained Path
by Dennis Kucinich
The Progressive magazine, November 2002


Unilateral military action by the United States against Iraq is unjustified, unwarranted, and illegal. The Administration has failed to make the case that Iraq poses an imminent threat to the United States. There is no credible evidence linking Iraq to 9/11. There is no credible evidence linking Iraq to Al Qaeda. Nor is there any credible evidence that Iraq possesses deliverable weapons of mass destruction, or that it intends to deliver them against the United States.
(more)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Bloodstained_Path.html

[roody]

155. DK, he's the real thing. eom

[AzDar]

141. * Hand proudly in air. * I couldn't shut up about it, either; my neighbors

began avoiding me, much to my delight.
We. Were. Right.

[WA98296]

142. Knew, Knew, Knew!

[driver8]

143. Me! Me! Me! I knew it!

I'm sorry...I know a lot of people fell for their lies but I don't see how.

I think these people are incapable of telling the truth about anything.

[Maat]

144. Knew it! Hubby knew it!

Hand in the air! I was told that I should leave law school by some of the students, implying that I was not a loyal citizen. I told them that the founders counted on reasonable people dissenting when disastrous policy was proposed. I don't believe I ever talked to them again.

Hubby and I also knew that we were setting up our young soldiers for a Vietnam-style MESS, complete with the atrocities.

Family told us we were un-patriotic.

[Vidar]

147. I was MIHOP by September 12.

[Lugnut]

148. My hand is up

If we knew why didn't they? I'm sick to death of hearing "if I only knew". Bull-hockey.

[RegimeChange2008]

149. I knew Chimp would lie us in to war the day he started his campaign in 1999

His name IS George Bush, after all.

[Lucky Luciano]

150. yep

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

[Guaranteed]

151. In 2001? Is this Iraq or Afghanistan you're talking about? nt

[Raksha]

152. Raising my hand here.

As soon as I found out that 14 out of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, I knew there was no reason to go to war with Iraq. I was suspicious right away because Saudi Arabia ALWAYS seemed to get a free pass from the Bush administration and the media. Every time suspicion seemed to fall on the Saudis, it was ALWAYS glossed over as though it didn't matter. Therefore I found all the b.s. about Saddam Hussein and Iraq unconvincing and phony right from the start. I was right, of course. I just didn't know (at the time) HOW phony it was.

[Octafish]

153. Not only that, I told everybody I knew...

...and did all I could to stop the crazy warmonkey.



The problem was the Congress was sore afraid of being labeled "soft on terror"
that they ignored those who knew what lay ahead because of Bush's lies.

[windbreeze]

157. Raising Hand...ME, ME, ME!!

so the real question is....IF we all knew...why does Congress say it was lied too?? reeks of complicity I'd say...
wb

[donheld]

158. .

:hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi: :grr: :hi:

[ClayZ]

159. All hands up in this house! K and R

:kick:

[Virginian]

160. I didn't KNOW he was lying, but I didn't believe him.

At times he reminded me of the old SNL Chevy Chase "Land Shark" skit. He kept coming up with another "reason" if the previous one didn't convince people.

"Saddam gassed his own people" - Yeah, That was 12 years earlier and why are we just now getting around to condemning him for it. It didn't seem to be an issue during Gulf War One. It didn't seem to be an issue when we were friends with him and gave/sold him the gas, either. (Lately I have heard that the gas used on the Kurds was not type that we gave/sold to him. It may really have come from Iran.)

Rummy: "He has Weapons of Mass Destruction and we know where they are, they are east, north ... of Baghdad..." So why don't you tell the UN inspectors where they are so that they can find them?

"al Qaeda has training camps in Iraq." The only one we knew of was in the Kurdish region that Saddam no longer had control over since we had restricted him with a "no fly Zone" over the Kurd area. The US had more control in that region than Saddam did.

"Saddam is harboring Terrorists." I think I heard a known terrorist was treated in a Baghdad hospital. I wonder how much control Bush has over who is treated in US hospitals.

"Saddam must disarm or else we will disarm him." How do you disarm if you aren't armed?

"Saddam must turn over all his information on his weapons programs and what happened to them." He did. Then Bush said it was too volumnous. Saddam must be trying to confuse us.

I could name more, but it is getting late.

It got to the point where I was actually wondering if Saddam was really the bad man Bush said he was. Saddam seemed to be trying to co-operate. Saddam DID offer money to the families of suicide bombers in Israel. That was a bad thing, but how many other Arab leaders did the same and remained our "friends?"

Why was Bush singling out THIS bad man. The world is full of evil dictators. Why THIS evil dictator?

Early in 2001 or late 2000, Bush got on my nerves by repeatedly saying "The American People want..." instead of saying "I want..." What difference did it make to him what the American people wanted? We obviously hadn't wanted him if his opponent got the popular vote. (At that time, we didn't KNOW that Al Gore had also won Florida. That recount report didn't come out until mid September of 2001 and was lesser news when the results were released.) Usually when he said it, The "American people" wanted something I didn't want. How could he make that generalization? Was he telling me just how little my opinion mattered? Or was he telling me just how little I mattered?
He lived here with the American People. If he couldn't get it right about what we wanted, was he getting it right on the Middle east and what Saddam was doing? I found it difficult to believe him.

[Skittles]

161. that bastard has never fooled me for one single day

not now, not EVER

[diane in sf]

162. I knew...

I listen to KPFA (Pacifica) and Scott Ritter etc. and since have come to the Web and DU--9.11 brought me to the web because the media coverage seemed like disinformation to me and the towers looked like they were demoed AND Bush's behavior was really weird.

I knew when the Repugs selected Bush (an unqualified incompetent) to run they had no respect for democracy.

I knew everything was wrong when they stole the election with the help of a partisan supreme court. That really freaked me out.

I freaked out when the Dems voted for the IWR--thousands of people including myself begged Feinstein not to vote for it only 200 asked her to vote for it--she ignored her constituents.

I wrote and demonstrated against starting a war on Iraq.

Now I hope people and congresscritters opposed to attacking Irqan/oil grabs/neocon fantasies of world domination, WWIII etc. will stop these criminals by any means.

[jannyk]

163. Two more flapping at you - me and hubby n/t

[OneBlueSky]

164. oooh oooh . . . me me me . . . call on ME! . . . n/t

[joe_b]

167. There were many indications

Just watching W in 2002 was enough. About every other day there was a rant against Iraq, short on facts, long on fear mongering. It was clear he was trying to scare the hell out of us. Right out of the 3rd Reich propaganda playbook. Goebbels would have been proud. Somewhere early on it leaked out we didn't have a single intelligence asset inside Iraq, yet he was making all these ironclad statements. Powell's presentation was another nail in the coffin. When he showed a drawing, not a picture, of the "mobile weapons lab," it was clear the fix was in. That was totally amateur. Then the recording of those two Iraqis talking about God knows what. When I saw that no country stood up and demanded to see the evidence, I realized how thoroughly he had bamboozled the whole world.

[LynnTheDem]

303. He certainly never "bamboozled the world"; the world said HELL NO

from the start of bush's bullshit, coz the world KNEW it was total bullshit.

Even the 3 nations who joined bush's illegal invasion of Iraq had the MAJORITY of their citizens OPPOSED.

bush and a handful of lying-minded politicians invaded Iraq; noboy was bamboozled. Except the MFing moran rightwingnut freeps, of course.

[2Design]

168. hand raise before he was even put into pResidency

I knew he would start a war while they were campaigning - I thought anyone who votes for him will get war

[mhatrw]

169. I was in the 15% club as well. What was UP with the other 85%?

It was so fucking obvious what was going on as long as you did your own homework.

[liberalla]

170. I was always against this war. I never thought it was right.

I could see how every report that offered an alternative or conflicting opinion was squashed. The case wasn't proven at all. I thought surely everyone could see what I saw, right? I kept waiting for indisputable evidence to justify the rush to war. Like most people, I supported the Afghanistan move.

I'm no expert on foreign affairs or politics, but even I could see the case wasn't made! I could see they hadn't "exhausted all efforts" prior to using military force! I still can't believe how so many people were fooled.

(... and I have a lot of anger and resentment toward all the bush supporters and enablers!)

[bananas]

171. Hand raised. nt

[Greyhound]

172. I didn't know about DU, but I knew this was complete bullshit.

*another hand goes up*

[malaise]

174. Both hands in the air n/t

[Altean Wanderer]

175. I knew the case for war was BS by reading ...

Will Pitt's collaboration with Scott Ritter. "War on Iraq: What the Bush Administration doesn't want you to know" and by reading the many bloggers who pointed out all the holes in the case for war. That the majority of the American people fell for it is disturbing. Will 'we' be fooled again?

[ikojo]

176. His father, aided by the Kuwaiti government,

used lies about Iraqi soldiers bayonetting babies, as a pretext to engender war fever among Americans in 1990; therefore I had no reason not to think junior would be honest about reasons to send other people's kids off to war.

Like father like son.

[davekriss]

177. I knew but I believe it was in February 2002

It was when the maladministration had Condi going around saying that Saddam could be holding a US fighter jet pilot in a secret prison in Baghdad, downed in the first moments of Gulf War I. She said it with such feigned disgust(she'd be a lousy poker player) that I turned to my wife and said we'd be at war with Iraq within a year.

I don't recall exactly when they were floating this trial balloon (meant to gauge what it will take to create outrage toward Saddam in the U.S.), it could've been 2001, but I think it was February 2002. It was also long before the Brent Scowcroft editorial (which predicted everything we've seen unfold in Iraq) in the WSJ, and that was in 2002 too, but I think later in the year.

I knew containment (as in a Nitzesque like Containment and Deterrence) was working. And Saddam was getting old. I was extreme antiwar with its first stirrings. Then surfaced the Powell and Condi videos from 2001 where they both said Sadam was powerless, his armies broken, and he was no threat to his neighbors nor U.S. So much, one had to have a pretty big blind spot to be pro-war at any time during the buildup to this illegal, immoral war of aggression.

First of all I had low expectation in 1999-2000, all of them under-exceeded, for Bush, knowing he browned Texas, gleefully signed more death warrants than all other Governers combined (since reinstatement of the death penalty), went AWOL, and busted Harken at personal profit (inside trading). The whole expected nightmare has unfolded.

[La Coliniere]

178. Here's my hand...

I read the Ritter/River article and other opinion pieces that nailed it for me. Honestly, after I read a transcript of the notorius interview where Shrub "imitates" Karla Faye Tucker's plea for clemency, I knew that this was a person who could NEVER be trusted about anything, particularly issues of war and peace. I was somewhat ostracized at work where I let my colleagues know how I felt about how we were being propagandized into an illegal war; even the progressives I work with distanced themselves from me. As Gore Vidal once said, the four most important words in the English language are: "I told you so". I'm now speaking up about Iran. The maddness must stop.

[MoJoWorkin]

179. hand in air. n/t

[warrior1]

181. hand up

[Hepburn]

182. Hand in air...

...Bush was a lying sack of shit long before he started lying about Iraq. Looking back at his history, if consists of nothing but lies ~~ each lie getting bigger than the last one. No doubt in my mind he lied now and no doubt in my mind he was lying back then when I first heard his bullshit.

BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW.

[Ganja Ninja]

183. I knew.

It was the PNAC that told me the whole thing was an oil grab.

[rateyes]

184. .

:hi:

[femmedem]

185. Hand up, thanks to Scott Ritter and William Pitt..

We even staged a protest at our local congressman's office with a big coffin for Truth.

[durrrty libby]

186. I cried the day the office was handed to him

I knew then we would end up with this horrible mess.

[Pachamama]

187. Me too...I broke down sobbing....My husband thought I was overreacting and that while it sucked, how

bad could it be???

I knew it would be bad...and its actually turned out even worse.... :cry:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

189. Yay For You! Here's A Scooby Snack For Ya!

[Tracer]

190. In the summer of 2002 ...

... I happened to see * give his first lying speech (Cincinnati?).

I literally jumped up off the couch and screamed at the TV ---"He's CONCOCTING that!!!!"

From that second on, I knew, KNEW, that despite his phony protestations about wanting "diplomacy", that it was a foregone conclusion to go to war.

His malignant THRILL at the idea of invading Iraq was shown when the BBC caught him smirking, goofing around and pumping his fist --- saying "Feels good!" --- immediately prior to him rearranging his face for the TV cameras and announcing that HIS war would be starting.

Did I tell you how much I hate that creep?

[Perky]

191. Damn it is hard to type with one hand

:)

[SaveAmerica]

192. OOOH OOOOOH OOOOOOOH Me!!

First suspicions when they wouldn't let the inspections continue,got into an argument with a very intelligent Democrat who asked me 'haven't you seen what Hussein has done?'. That's when I knew America was lost and had taken Bush's bait.

[ProfessorGAC]

193. Well, Duh!

My biggest reason was simple: In the early 90's we eviscerated Saddam's military in a matter of days. The "4th biggest military in the world" was gauze compared to the U.S. So, i knew that he had nothing.

Almost complete destruction of the Republican Guard, total rout, and then 10 years of sanctions. Exactly how would he have, with nobody noticing, rebuilt his military and weapons program. He WAS NOT A THREAT TO ANYBODY! So, when Silverspoon talked about how he was a threat to the U.S., i knew that couldn't be. If that fundamental premise is a lie, the rest of it had to be.

The Professor

[salib]

194. Hand raised up high

However, it was not the question that mattered, in my mind.

All sorts of countries, some considered VERY unfriendly, have "nukyuler" weapons, poison gas (probably bio weapons, too, though no one seems to be able to use those for more than random terror).

Let me say it clearly, in big letters: PRE-EMPTIVE WAR IS WRONG.

We committed war crimes by the very definitions our grandparents dictated: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/nuremberg.htm.

Got it?

Enough said.

[deutsey]

195. Right here...n/t

[focusfan]

196. anybody with common sense knew he was lying

i don't know why congress didn't see he was lying and now he
should be held accountable.

[madokie]

197. two hands two feet and four paws

Roxy was only a pup then but she knew too

[Little Wing]

198. Up

[Wednesdays]

199. Not just that, but I quit my job because of the lying...

For 7 years I held a paid job singing for religious services every week, as part of a tiny "professional choir." In the fall of 2002, this particular congregation held a memorial service for the 1st anniversary of 911...They had me sing "God Bless America" as a soloist. I had no problem singing it in that context, but after I was done they brought in some speakers, including a couple of government agents who basically parroted Shrub's theme at the time, that "We're gonna smoke out the terra-ists," etc. Needless to say, I was very uncomfortable about being a part of this and I shook my head saying, "Never again."

Fortunately nothing happened over the next few weeks, but in November I came in for one service and learned that I was to repeat my "God Bless America" solo the following week, part of some sort of "Rise Up for America" event. I was already feeling disgruntled, but the last straw for me was when one of the prominent members of the congregation delivered the sermon that day, essentially accusing Saddam Hussein of harboring weapons of mass destruction, and calling for war against Iraq from the pulpit. Everyone in the place just nodded their heads in agreement. I bit my tongue to keep from shouting during his speech, but after the service was over I ranted to my fellow choristers, "Have you all lost your minds!? Where is the evidence of weapons of mass destruction?" The choristers just sat and stared at me, dumbfounded, and I stormed off, never to return. I got messages and emails from the leader, saying he wanted to "meet with me." Ha, I knew better than to walk into an ambush or a "reprogramming session." And there was no way in hell I would sing "God Bless America" amid calls for BushCo's war. (I don't know who eventually sang it, probably some BushBot.)

I knew it was all a lie then, and of course I've since then been vindicated. Unfortunately, I've never heard a retraction from those people. Maybe I should call up their leader and ask him if he still wants me to sing "God Bless America"?

On edit: Believe it or not, this congregation originally leaned liberal! But as they say, "911 changed everything."

[Puglover]

200. I swear that I never

had a moments doubt that the smarmy SOB was lying.

[OwnedByFerrets]

201. It was an easy call

for anyone who didnt have their heads up Monkeyboys ass licking his prostrate. I get angry every time I think about all the idiots who backed this crap.........and even worse, who still do.

[kikiek]

202. I often wonder if the people who stole our signs "Say No To War With Iraq" and

left the nasty mailbox note still believe in Bush. Personally I think the ones who went that far are in the last 28 pct still supporting him. They're the assholes that can't ever admit they were wrong about anything. Just like Bush they talk about accountability, but nothing is ever their fault.

[Upfront]

204. My hand

is up.

[Maine-ah]

205. knew it from the get-go!

:hi:

it was a year or so after that my hubbie finnally said "you told me so"

:rofl: hubbie should really listen to me more often.....

[NewJeffCT]

206. I knew Bush wanted a war... however

I figured that Saddam probably had some hidden WMD and WMD programs somewhere in his country. I did not know of places like DU, TPM, DailyKos, etc until mid 2003, so my only news sources were "mainstream" ones.

However, I never once thought it worth going to war over. This is despite my lack of access to real news sources.

(No, I didn't watch Fox or listen to RW radio... I've always been progressive, just was depressed before that we had no media voice)

[colorado_ufo]

207. Raising two hands

in case someone else misses this thread.

[bikebloke]

208. Hand up

[cool user name]

209. My hand is scraping the sky ...

I knew the whole thing was a bunch of bullshit.

[Kablooie]

210. Afghanistan - yes -- Iraq NO!

[KenHodson]

211. I didn't do enough.

In my office, there were 2 of us that opposed the war out of 30. I was unable to change anyone's thought about the looming war - and again after the initial bombing but before troop deployment.
The only thing I succeeded in was establishing a new policy in my office that cut off the transmission of those god-awful "Remember 9-11" emails. Man, those reeked! More often than not, those powerpoint emails were racism disguised as patriotism.
Have you seen those old WWII anti-Japanese (and anti-German) propaganda posters urging us to work hard and/or buy bonds? How the hell did that type of thing reccur in this millenium?

[ProgressiveFool]

212. I wouldn't say I knew he was lying

Though I didn't trust him in general. I knew Saddam, as a secular dictator, likely didn't collaborate with Al Quaida. I figured Iraq was pretty well contained, decimated as it was by sanctions. I thought inspections were enough to solve the issue, and was dismayed when I realized that they were just being perfunctorily used to show the "exhaustion of all options". I knew the administration wanted war, though at that time I didn't think they'd be so fucking incompetent. In a way, it's almost good that they were, because I think they were bent on going right after Syria and then Iran next.

edit: It also seemed readily apparent to me that the whole hyping of the threat was intended to put Democrats in a box for the 2002 midterms. I think the Bushies were terrified of what life would be like for them if the Dems won in 2002, like the Pubs did in 1994, hamstringing the president.

[speedoo]

213. hand proudly in air. K&R

[bdamomma]

214. raise my hand

I was very skeptical how * wanted to go into Iraq, when Iraq did not do anything to us, and they didn't let the IAEA conduct their investigations.

[we can do it]

215. Here and I Am Raising a Hand for My Mom, Since She's No Longer With Us

and when the stories and reasons kept changing daily we both really knew it was BS.

STOP the WAR NOW

[borlis]

216. Both hands in air here!!

And I am standing on my chair!

[havocmom]

217. Oh yeah. Was betting the weasel couldn't find Iraq on a map

but his whole presidential run was a ploy to go to war there. His masters deemed it so and I knew ANY REASON they offered would be nothing but lies.

Blood into gold, the evil alchemy of those who put bush in office.

[grace0418]

218. ME! ME!

I'm no genius either, but it was obvious to me.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

219. Hand up for peace!

Thanks to the good people here at DU who did amazing research, I knew that it was seriously doubtful that Saddam had the type of WMDs we were being scared with by Bush & Co. I knew that the intel was being cherry-picked and manipulated by the Iraqi Survey Group. I knew that our own CIA thought most of the intel was flat out wrong. I knew that what Powell presented to the UN was either lies or in question among the experts. I knew that the PNAC was all over this administration and what their goals were with regards to Iraq -- and that they were willing to do anything to accomplish those goals. I also knew Saddam had no connection to 9/11 or Bin Laden.

That's why, whenever I hear a politician talk about how they were "mislead" or how they were just giving Bush the authority and how they had no idea he would misuse it so badly I just want of fucking scream. How come I wasn't "mislead"? How come 20+ Democrats and and Independent weren't "mislead"?

The day of the invasion was the worst day of my life. To know what was being unleashed on the Iraqi people and how completely uneccessary and wrong it was almost made me lose my mind that day. :cry:

The more time goes by and the higher the body toll rises, the more I despise those who were either too stupid or too cowardly or too interested in running for President to do the the right thing. :mad:

[cmd]

220. Standing up, waving both hands and shouting

ME!

[kaygore]

221. Hand raised

[treestar]

222. Yes.

Could tell immediately that this was not going to be solved by traditional military methods. Who couldn't?

[yardwork]

223. Hand held high!

Even the mainstream media was reporting that the weapons inspectors had not found anything and were being asked to finish their work. There was no reason to rush the invasion of Iraq - except that * knew that the weapons inspectors wouldn't find anything.

[sasha031]

224. I always knew, you can tell a liar by body language and their eyes

unless of course your a psychopath, which * is, but he hasn't perfected all the manifestations in his body language.

he needs to practice more on that.

it amazes me the people who believed him, but they are the type to buy from Amway or whatever anyway.

[KansDem]

225. I did...and I not really a intelligent guy for the most part...

I mean, I've gotten screwed in many ways that required rational, intelligent thought: mortgages, health care, credit cards, home and car repair, graduate school, etc. In fact I've been a chump in more ways that I care to remember! But I knew from Day One that George Jr was a fraud and would be a disaster for this country as well as the world. But I never imagined to what degree, especially with regard to his lying and deception to get a war on with Iraq.


Yeah, my son's an asshole...I'll have to admit it!

[butterfly77]

228. Hands up..

he lies about everything;)

[SalviaBlue]

229. Oh Hell Yes... My hand is up

[M_Demo_M]

231. It smelled bad from the start.

The timing of the Iraq are drum beat was just too closely tied
to the 2002 mid-terms. I knew it was BS!!

[KitSileya]

232. Hand in the air!

I knew, thanks to DemocraticUnderground - but I sought out DU because I didn't trust that snake ever. Even during the 2000 elections, I knew he was only interested in shovelling dollars into the pockets of his ilk.

[kittykitty]

233. I knew when Colin Powell made his pathetic little presentation~I was so embarassed for him!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

234. Me!

And about 30,000 other people in Portland who came out for demonstrations.

[caligirl]

235. Two people here, one of which is a ret. LtCol.

[nam78_two]

236. Here! An interesting question though

is how many people (not here per se) but in general thought he was lying about the ties between Iraq and 9/11, but were ok with the war anyway because they thought "Saddam was a bad guy" blah blah...

I knew some (at least then) hawkish Dems who felt that way...Didn't understand the thought process myself.

[Javaman]

237. I lived under that moron* when he was governor...

I knew he* lied about funeralgate, I knew he* was lying about iraq.

I believe he* sufferes from truth-o-phobia.

[atommom]

238. I knew beyond a doubt and was stunned so many fell for it. nt

[mike_c]

239. lots of us knew he was lying-- and so did lots of the congress folks...

...who voted like lemmings nonetheless.

[WilliamPitt]

240. In 2001?

He wasn't talking about war in 2001 until September, and Iraq didn't become a point of public discussion until the summer of 2002.

But yeah, hand raised.

[The Count]

241. Me!Me! I knew! Zillions of articles debunking each and every lie - Google was

all one needed to know. Which is why, those who voted for it, are either idiots or criminals. Either way, not worthy of our votes.

[youthere]

242. *jumping up and down* ME!ME!ME!

[chelsea0011]

243. Hand way in the air.

I actually has an argument with a right winger about the need for war. He, of course, took the party line of...regarding nukes, "it isn't a question a whether or not we get hit, but a question of when" and he tried to compare the Cuban missile crisis with Iraq. I kept asking him where the missile photos were in Iraq. He had no answer to that of the simple question of "prove it" when discussing WMD's in Iraq. It amazes me how republicans become lovers of everything from the government when their people are in charge. Don't they all hate big government?

[volstork]

244. hand up

I said when the asshole was "elected" by the SCOTUS that we would be at war within 3 years. Wish I could predict lottery numbers that well......

[GenDem]

245. Hand way up!

It was a lonely hand, but it was way up. I remember it like it was yesterday. If I tried to talk of my concerns to people around me, they reminded me of terra and 9-11. If I said the terra came from Afghanistan and the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq -- they just stared at me blankly. Never the less I still raised my hand.

[leftofthedial]

246. everyone with two grey cells knew he was lying

unfortunately most of our "representatives" chose the political expediency of going along with the anti-reality DC zeitgeist instead of their principles.

anyone who now claims not to know that bush was lying, is lying themselves.

I knew. I think everyone here knew. A few supported the war, but not because they thought king george was telling the truth.

[mzmolly]

247. *

[KoKo]

248. Hand Way Up! Was here on DU when we tried to stop it!

We tried so hard with the marches and petitions and letters/e-mails, even to the UN officials. MoveOn.org delivered boxes of signed petitions to the UN and Congress.

[montanto]

249. I knew he would find a way to war

with Iraq specifically even before he wasn't elected.

[fryguy]

250. hands up here

of course I knew, but then I - unlike the neo-cons and rethugs - was using my brain for something other than an echo chamber for Faux news....

[Dammit Ann]

251. I'm with you.

I knew he was lying, way back then.

[LibDemAlways]

252. I have a good friend whose job brings him into

contact with military brass. He attended meetings in 2002 where officers spoke openly about Iraq not being a threat. They knew it was all bogus and behind closed doors said so. My friend would tell me how they spoke about North Korea being the real threat, but it wouldn't be a priority because, as one of the officers said, "They have no oil."

[DKRC]

253. Both hands up! Knew it, said it, caught hell for it, said it louder! (just stubborn that way) nt

[KeepItReal]

254. Yep. I knew it for two simple reasons:

1. When the United Nations Weapons Inspectors/Destroyers were on the ground in Iraq and Bush & Co.
started talking sh*t about WMD and the media started hyping up an inevitable war, the following
thing happened:

A) Bush & Co. said Saddam had WMD.
B) The UN Weapons guys in Iraq said, "Oh he does? Well tell us where they are, and we'll take them out."
C) Bush & Co. said "We're not gonna tell you."
D) The media downplays this exchange like it never happened.

2. We had no-fly zones over most of Iraq since the first Gulf War (to protect Kurds in North and
the Shia in the South). If Saddam had a single piece of anti-aircraft artillery that got feisty
and took a pot shot at a U.S. plane flying over Iraq, the Air Force or Naval Aviators would take
that threat out - no questions asked! *Now* we are supposed to believe all those U.S. planes flying
over Iraq would fail to turn any WMD sites into matchsticks if they discovered an actual WMD threat?

[Just-plain-Kathy]

256. I never thought we should go into Afghanistan...

We were hit by an organization...NOT a country.

Besides, every member of the House and Senate had to know about PNAC.

[jwirr]

259. I knew that we should not go to war with a nation for what a religion

taught.

[Catfight]

260. Big duh...I also laughed at everyone that took him 'seriously.' nt

[Miss Chybil]

261. I knew. I told everyone I knew he was lying. Not all of them believed me. nt

[Ahgoo]

262. Both Hands High

I knew he was a snake before he was 'selected' in 2000. As for the illegal invasion of Iraq: It's about oil. It has always been about oil. It will always be about oil.

I had second thoughts when Powell spoke but those didn't last very long.

[degreesofgray]

263. from the day he announced his candidacy

for the presidency I knew that if he won he would invade Iraq--nothing has surprised me except for the gall with which his plans were delivered and the gullibility with which the American press and public lapped up his administration's propaganda.

[Cetacea]

264. I knew, and was treated with tinfoil disdain, eom

on edit: I should add not here. Some people seemed to agree, but only a few.

[Pathwalker]

265. Raises hand. They called me Cassandra.

n/t

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

266. Hand In Air.

The question of if he had WMD's did not make a difference to me. I argued a modern war cannot be won. (and it would kill a lot pf people, too.)

[AlGore-08.com]

267. Raising hand - - and reminding everybody of Al Gore's 9/02 speech against the invasion

Since he won't log on and raise his own hand...

http://www.algore.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=84

[theHandpuppet]

268. A Hand from the Handpuppet

:hi:

[LeftyMom]

269. Me. I knew he'd get us into a war as soon as he got selected, and by lunchtime on Sept 11, I knew he

had his excuse.

[Lilith Velkor]

270. Fist in the air in a land of hypocrisy

Fuck Bush and his fucking war

[shanti]

271. *jumping with both hands in the air*

most du'ers knew this....

[Morgana LaFey]

272. 200!? Immediately after 9-11 we attacked Afghanistan. Is that what

you're talking about? We didn't go after Iraq until 2003, with lead up to the war during most if not all of 2002.

In any case, I knew Iraq was no threat at all. I believed Scott Ritter, for one (among many others). I also knew that the U.N. hadn't asked us (or anyone) to get involved (to enforce their resolutions, which was one of the reasons used for our war lust). AND, none of his neighbors were particularly worried about him.

[progressoid]

273. well, duh.

[porphyrian]

274. Fist up, bird extended. - n/t

[lies and propaganda]

275. oooh, ooh oh Me me me!

[LuckyLib]

276. Hand up! I knew, and was given the skeptical eye for my "usual" liberal peacenik bent.

They ain't laughin' now.

[GeorgeGist]

277. .

[Stardust]

278. Absolutely! Hand in the air here, too!

[neuvocat]

279. I hate to say it

but at the time I gave him the benefit of the doubt while the UN inspectors were still there. I still gave him that same benefit when Bush decided to send troops there instead under the premise that they were going to use force to locate the WMD's. However then I became doubtful also because I began to ask myself "What if they never find any?". I wasn't surprised that it turned out that the WMD search was masking ulterior motives.

[ripple]

281. Count me in

:hi:

[mvd]

282. Yes, I knew

He was just too anxious to start another war without finishing the job in Afghanistan. I was wary even before I knew about PNAC.

[Zookeeper]

283. Here. n/t

[liberalnurse]

284. We all did......

as did Senator Paul Welstone.

[Sander]

285. I had serious doubts, but I wanted to trust Powell

I remember when Adalai Stevenson presented the evidence of Cuban missiles in the '60's. Now that was a "slam-dunk" presentation! When I saw the Powell "evidence," I knew something was fishy. There was no convincing evidence. There was no "there" there.

BUT.... I wanted to trust Powell. So I didn't protest too much. But, in the back of my mind, I knew this was bull-sh__. I just wish I had trusted my own judgment more. It became clear pretty soon though that the whole thing was a lie. To this day, I don't understand why Powell went along with it.

[vote 4 democracy]

286. From the very first time I saw him campaigning for 2000 - I felt

the strong urge to wretch and shower when he was speaking. I couldn't listen to or watch him because it made my stomach turn. I knew from the beginning that he was a spoiled brat with serious self esteem issues. I knew he felt the need to prove himself. I knew that he was a slimy used car salesman type with no integrity and that everything that came out of his mouth was a cover for the truth. I even suspected that Gore would win but somehow this group of his would find a way to steal the office away (though I didn't know how then). When Cheney got involved I knew we were going to war. I hoped Powell would be the one voice of reason but, I believe, he was naive in thinking that he was there for anything but to give them the appearance of credibility. He needed to believe that they respected him enough to be straight with him. He had already earned that from the rest of the country and it took him a long time to admit that he was really disrespectfully used and duped. Hands sadly raised high.

[yurbud]

287. I remembered our 10,000 nukes and MAD. It just didn't add up. That is also why I don't buy

Dems who say "if I knew then what I know now..." They knew then that even if Saddam had nukes he would not be stupid enough to use them on us or give them to terrorists who did because our guaranteed reaction would be burning Iraq off the map. Every country on earth knows we have a lot of nukes and we are the only country who has ever used them. What would someone even think they could gain by attacking us like that?

[Roxy66]

288. Hand in the air!! n/t

[Joey Liberal]

289. My hand is raised n/t

[Seabiscuit]

290. You can have both my hands and feet! I knew in 2,000 that * was a patholigical liar

And that *nothing* he said was believable; everything he said during the 2,000 election campaign, everything he did during the legal battle over the Florida recount, and everything he did in office in 2,001 made me want to :puke: - the European steel tariffs, the pullout from Kyoto and the International Court of Criminal Justice, ignoring the plight of the Palestinians, massive tax cuts for the wealthy and large corporations, failure to act before 9-11, failure to act on 9-11, failure to act after 9-11 (he gave Bin Forgotten over a month's head-start before going after him in Afghanistan, and then only half-heartedly, letting the Afghans themselves do all the ground fighting, and ultimately letting Bin Laden get away in Tora Bora), then essentially quitting the fight in Afghanistan and sending battleships to the Persian Gulf in December, 2001, in preparation for his phony Iraq misadventure.

[Nostradammit]

291. I knew he was lying the minute I heard his last name was Bush

Sons of Bitches.

[maggiegault]

292. Me.

I never bought it, and I never will. Then again, I am one of those types who finds it just a tad too convenient that the events of 9/11 would jibe so nicely with that outlined in the PNAC manifesto.

[sofa king]

293. Shoulda known.

Even though I knew the election had been stolen, even though I saw firsthand the wave of criminality that swept through the Department of the Interior, even though I already had my doubts about the attacks of September 11, I believed the President was telling the truth.

Even though hints were fluttering around DC like snowflakes--"the President is taking a big, big risk," one person said to me.

Because I didn't believe an American could be so treasonous as to fabricate the justification for a war and have the balls to present that fabricated evidence to the nation during a State of the Union address. I assumed that to do so would invite his immediate removal by an angry Congress.

Nope. America is far, far more fucked up than that.

[chknltl]

294. Thanks to Senator Jim McDermott: YES I DID and...

...I made my kids watch as Senator Jim McDermott, (dem Wa. State), recently back from a fact finding mission in Iraq , pointed his finger at us, (through the TV) and said, "Make no mistake about it, this is not about WMD, this is about oil and regime change!" His speech, given in a college auditorium before a large group of students was broadcast twice on C-Span just prior to Shock And Awe. Senator McDermott spoke a bit about depleted uranium and it's affects on the civilian populace of Iraq...he was then talking about the depleted uranium oxides which we left behind from the first Gulf War.

For his efforts, Senator Jim McDermott was labeled "Baghdad Jim" by the conservative media types.

Undaunted, Senator McDermott, along with fellow Wa. State Senator, Maria Cantwell have recently sponsored a Bill to further research the effects of depleted uranium oxide poisoning on our returning vets... Do not hold your breath in anticipation of seeing this as late breaking news on CNN anytime soon though. With any luck one of our fellow Democratic Underground news-hounds will break that story here.

Another thought occurs to me: I wonder if C-Span still has that speech and if-so would they release it if asked, to a member of the Democratic Underground???? I am betting it would get viewed by more than a few around here...

[MedleyMisty]

302. Hand up

I knew.

I was vehemently against Afghanistan too.

As for wondering why Congress didn't get it - did anyone read the Rolling Stone article about the last Congress? It featured a note written in jail by an indicted Republican congressman. It was less literate than your average post by a 12 year old on the Sims 2 board.

Apparently being of average intelligence is not a requirement to be an elected representative.

[chknltl]

304. Yeah, not many math requirements in a Poly Sci degree...

btw sleebarker...I am pleased to get a post from ya in this thread but I suspect you meant to post under the thread as opposed to under my response. (Not like I haven't done that same thing myself) Fascinating observation about congress-critters though.

May I be one of the first of many to welcome you to the Democratic Underground sleebarker... :toast:

[immoderate]

318. C-SPAN has extensive archives.

And they have a taping service. There are some copyright restrictions.

--IMM

[Martin Eden]

295. HILLARY ... did SHE know?

It seemed quite obvious to me that chimpy was lying.

Did Hillary really believe him?

[Tom Joad]

298. If she believed that.... then i got several SF Bay Bridges i can lend her campaign

for pennies on the dollar. Every car that passes the toll booth can make a contribution.

PM me Hillary!

[Tom Joad]

296. Well, we couldn't expect some poorly educated senators to see that.

Just us workin' folks who can see that clearly.
Not the poor boys (and girls) who make millions a year.

[Sisaruus]

299. How could anyone not know he was lying?

9/11 just gave him the opportunity to put in on the faster track.

[Coloradan4Truth]

300. Raising hand -

I never trusted * from day one.

[LynnTheDem]

301. In fact, the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS have hands raised.

December 17, 2002

Poll: Bush hasn't made case for Iraq war

More than two-thirds of Americans believe the Bush administration has failed to make its case that a war against Iraq is justified...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-12-17-iraq-poll_x.htm



An overwhelming majority opposes proceeding without UN authority.
world.org/digest/regional_issues/Conflict_Iraq/multilat_support.cfm

January 13, 2003

Poll: Majority of Americans oppose unilateral action against Iraq

But without U.N. approval and allies, only about a third of the public would support a war with Iraq.
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/001415.html



US Public Want to Give UN Inspectors More Time

Seven in 10 Americans would give U.N. weapons inspectors months more to pursue their arms search in Iraq, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll that found growing doubts about an attack on Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Fifty-eight percent said they would like to see more evidence, and 71 percent said the United States should make public its own evidence if the U.N. inspectors can't find hard evidence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

In one clear sign of public caution on Iraq, 43 percent of respondents said the U.N. inspectors should have as much time as they like to scour Iraq. A quarter said the inspectors should have "a few months" or more. Another quarter supported a deadline of a few weeks or less for the inspections.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A23564-2003Jan21

Rep. Ron Paul (R) speaking on the House floor, September 10, 2002;

Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we know it cannot retaliate- which just confirms that there is no real threat?
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002.htm

US intell told bush it was bullshit; so did many Republics:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=49506

And Rice, Cheney, Powell et al all clearly prove by their own words that they knew it was all a pile of bullshit:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3908733

Of course they lied. And in fact even the US majority didn't fall for the bullshit. bush & Cabal just went ahead anyways & ignored -as they still ignore- the US majority.

It's how a Decider runs a nation.

[WillyT]

306. Hand Raised Here !!!

[Raine]

307. Me...

I didn't believe it for a second.

[NuttyFluffers]

308. but of course. heck, i expected 2 wars based on lies by 2000 election.

i know evil when i see it.

actually i'm now expecting at least 1 last added war, and they'll all be active by the end of 2008.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

309. *hand in the air*

Axis of Evil my Ashtibula.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

310. Roll Call

WTH

here!

Made absolutely no sense whatsoever to remove Hans Blix and UN weapons inspectors from Iraq.*

*Qualifier: The only justification for their removal is that the world would learn that there were no WMD. Surely, the Bush Asministration believed so, for they never would have gone to war with a country they actually believed was "armed and dangerous." See Korea, one of the other unholy trinity.

Iraq = paper lion (Bushies knew all along)

[KenHodson]

312. WHEN YOU ARE ALL DONE CONGRADULATING YOURSELVES

It may be time to think about doing something useful.
Chrissakes, brainstormin' is in order. So we have been marching and yelling and screaming for years now. Nothing works!
I see pro-Hilary posts on this site to this date. She is done. She voted for this thing.
Hell, I'm a tree-huggin' passifist commie pinko (etc.) considering buying firearms and joining the NRA! I don't want me or mine disappearin' anytime soon.
I was waiting for someone to yell at you yahoos to "QUIT PATTING YOURSELVES ON THE BACK!". But nope. Just more high-fives all around.
Start thinking about something new. The revolution is nigh! Look around and figure out who will be in your foxhole. I'll be there.

[IdaBriggs]

313. I knew if Jr became President we were going to war w/Iraq in Nov 2000. nt

[Porcupine]

314. Add me and the 250K people marching in San Francisco

before the war started. We weren't there for the free t-shirt.

[Imagevision]

315. Me too!!

[0rganism]

317. hand

Scott Ritter made that absolutely clear.

A heightened international police action to counter Al Qaeda and associated organizations was the obvious, just, and proportional response to 9/11/2001, and instead we invaded Iraq.

[immoderate]

319. *hand* and here's my proof...

I was living in Arizona at the time so I wrote this LTTE to the Arizona Republic. They didn't publish it, but every year on 9-11, I send it to them again with an "I told you so" message. This is from March 17,2003.

Dear editor,

If I read your editorial correctly, the current US policy of invading a country that hasn’t attacked us is "dictated" by the events of 9/11. Au contraire! I think that US policy is “dictated” by (unelected) President George W. Bush. France and Germany supported us after 9/11; they still have thousands of peace keeping troops in Afghanistan and look how we treat them, like enemies.

For those who forgot about Chile, Guatemala, Iran and Viet Nam, here’s what you can expect. We will probably defeat Iraq easily. Nobody, but nobody, wants to be in the way when the United States military is bearing down. My money goes on the US in any battle. It’s the aftermath of the war that has not been calculated.

Whatever government we install in Iraq will be viewed as a US colony or puppet in their midst. It will be a magnet for terrorist attacks. The costs of security will soar. We will spend many billions over many years and they will keep attacking. Millions of idle youth plus convenient targets equals many opportunities to make martyrs. Are we ready to institute a homeland security system for Iraq? Can we even do one for ourselves?

Eventually, we will have to leave Iraq. An Iraq occupation, combined with other Bush policies will ruin us financially. Our prestige and credibility will have been decimated. Maybe the endless terror attacks will take their toll, people hate body bags. We will be leaving the Iraqi people and ourselves a lot worse off than we are now.

Hey, for those who see tenuous connections like Saddam and 9/11, why haven’t they detected a connection between gas prices and Republican control of the government?

I still hear people say, "everybody believed that Saddam had WMDs then." So I say, "Where did 'freedom fries' come from?"

--IMM

[bleedingheart]

320. I knew, I marched against war ...

I call and write my reps all the time to end this war.