Is it possible impeachment is lagging because ?

[blues90]

I thought about this last night while going through another sleepless night .

It accured to me if bush and cheney were both impeached then Pelosi would be the president .

Now would'nt this destroy and screw up many of the plans of the people thinking about tossing their hats into the ring as well as those who have tossed their hats into the ring .

Now I realize this may sound far fetched , so realize I don;t sleep well .

Since most of those running are senators and both dems and repugs many of whom seem to be dragging their feet .

Also Pelosi would have to prove she would be a good presidnent being basically forced into the position for close to two years .

[Double T]

1. Reelection is the MAIN GOAL above ALL ELSE for a politician..........

so YOU may be largely correct.

[thefool_wa]

2. I've always thought

That it is the "Gerry Ford" angle that has stood in the way of impeachment. The Dems need to have everything in line to impeach both of them at the same time or we just end up with the same people in control and a different president. In the worst case that different president is Dick Cheney - no thanks.

The only possible way to thwart this is to ensure Pelosi's ascension into the position by simultaneous impeachment, and they can't and won't be able to pull that off. I don't think the Dem's (as a party) primary concern is *who* the next (or first female) president is, only that the position is executed rightly and legally.

At this point, I hate to say it, but impeachment may be just a pipe dream. Best to let them spend the next 21 months driving the coffin nails, force them out from the polls then move on from there.

[blues90]

4. I too feel impeachment is a pipe dream

I just don't see it happening and with none binding efforts that bsuh could care less about as they only place this resposibility on bush , he could care less .

Pulling funds seems like a double edged sword because it stands to be a huge gamble for the troops mostly and could backfire on political asperations many do have .

[Independent_Liberal]

5. No, it's not a pipe dream.

It never was. Never will be. Listen to David Swanson, Howard Zinn and Elizabeth Holtzman. They'll tell you I'm right.

[blues90]

6. Sure if it were now

But by the time this gets going they will be into Iran and then what good is impeachment or all the 2008 election hopefuls ?

All the talk about impeachment and this is off the table for now and this I felt was insane .

If this is their game plan to buy time I would think bush would know by now since there are always leaks providing information .

[Luckyduck]

9. I'll tell you you're right.

Our Constitution requires that we impeach Bush and Cheney for this assault on our country.

Humanity requires that we hold them accountable for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

And it would be simple. Introduce articles of Impeachment for illegal wiretapping. Bush admitted it. He will resign before all of his crimes come out.

Manchurian Democrats are getting in the way. All of their excuses are complete bullshit, covering for Bush while trying to make up excuses that anyone with a brain will not excuse.

[thefool_wa]

13. Agreed

But there is more to consider than merely the black&white of crimes and punishment. There is no way to stop the crimes from continuing without double impeachment.

Also, it takes a great deal more than just introduction of the articles. You need 2/3 of both houses to agree that it is the right thing to do. That 67 Senators and around 430 Congressmen (well over 500 people), that is a WHOLE BUNCH of people to get on board, especially when not even everyone on our side of things thinks it is the right course of action.

Just because the crimes are clear does not mean that impeachment will solve the mess they have created.

[Independent_Liberal]

17. All it takes is a majority of the House.

It only takes two thirds in the Senate. Read my little scenario below. It's how I think it will play out.

[thefool_wa]

12. Impeaching Bush in '08

Has no more teeth than impeaching Clinton in 00 did, even though his crimes are far greater - there is no way they have the time to pull it off and I don't think they want to. Maybe if teh Dems had won back the congress at someother point since 02 or 03 - but not now.

[AndyTiedye]

3. Impeachment Is Our Best Chance of Winning The Presidency

[MonkeyFunk]

7. guys

c'mon. There's no way there will be a simultaneous impeachment of both Bush and Cheney. Frankly, I doubt there'll be a single impeachment of either, and even WITH impeachment, conviction and removal of one is very unlikely, conviction and removal of both is out of the question.

There is simply no way 16 or more Republican Senators will vote to remove both of them and give the White House to Pelosi.

It's fun to fantasize, but jeez. Some of these ideas here are just delusional.

[Independent_Liberal]

8. Not out of the question.

And I wish people would quit calling us delusional. Once the investigations get underway and expose all the malfeasance, wrongdoing and dirty tricks, those Republicans up for re-election in 08 will be forced to go along with it or face another Democratic wave in the next cycle. Public opinion is ultimately what will have an impact. The Dems didn't have 2/3 majority when Nixon was in office either, but Nixon resigned once he was told there would be at least 85 Senators voting against him.

It's most likely this will happen:

1. Libby is convicted and implicates Cheney. A bunch of info comes to light about Plame, Halliburton, AIPAC, the Energy Task Force, Judith Miller and the White House Iraq Group, DynCorp, Nigerian bribes, Leandro Aragoncillo, etc. Cheney is indicted by Fitzgerald on multiple counts of conspiracy, treason, espionage, fraud, bribery and extortion and is forced to resign. He steps down for "health reasons."

2. Bush is forced to appoint a new VP. The majority of the Congress and the public decides on McCain. McCain is confirmed as VP by the House and Senate.

3. Conyers and Waxman open investigations into everything. This includes Downing Street Memos, Plame, White House Iraq Group, Iran-Syria Operations Group, Nigerian bribes, AIPAC/Larry Franklin/Steven Rosen/Keith Weissman/Michael Ledeen/Manucher Ghorbanifar, Niger/Yellowcake forgeries, depleted uranium, use of illegal weapons and the targeting of civilians, journalists and hospitals, Patriot Act abuses, unlawful searches and seizures, indefinite detainment without charge, presidential signing statements, Dubai Ports deals, mining disasters, Edmonds FBI whistleblower case, Aragoncillo, leaks of classified information and security breaches, NSA and wiretapping without FISA court approval, Gannon, Abramoff, Greenberg Traurig, Marsh & Kroll Management, Cunningham/Wilkes/MZM/Hookergate, Alfonso Jackson and HUD contracts, financial improprieties involving former FDA Commissioner Lester Crawford, Unocal and Afghanistan, Global Crossing, Enron, Halliburton-Kellogg Brown & Root, The Carlyle Group, Harken Energy, Bechtel, WorldCom, DynCorp, Blackwater, Parsons, Custer Battles, CACI, election fraud, Coingate, torture of prisoners, FEMA’s Katrina response, Pat Tillman’s death, missing billions from Iraq, missing billions from the Pentagon, missing billions from Homeland Security, missing billion from Katrina recovery, Pentagon psyops units, secret government propaganda operations and the Armstrong Williams case, the Office of Special Plans, the replacements of US Attorneys, the firing of Abramoff Prosecutor Frederick A. Black, etc. Hearings begin and subpoenas are issued. Several whistleblowers from the FBI, CIA, DIA, NSC, NSA, FAA, Pentagon and State Department step forward to testify.

4. Leahy sets up a Special Select Committee in the Senate to investigate Iraq intelligence, Phase II, Plame, NSA, 9/11 oddities, Pat Roberts/Richard Shelby intelligence leak cover-ups, Laura Ingraham’s involvement in campaign phone jamming, slush funds, AWOL/CBS Memogate involving information on W’s military record from back in 1972, Senate computer theft by Republican staffers (this relates to information on Bush judicial nominations), Ashcroft’s illegal campaign contributions, the Medicare bribe scandal, the bogus Medicare “Video News Release,” wiretapping of the United Nations, Antonin Scalia’s refusal to recuse himself from the Energy Task Force case, the DOJ’s bungling of the Detroit terrorism case, espionage involving State Department official Donald Keyser and the passing of documents to Taiwanese Intelligence agents, Energy Commission cover-ups and other corruption, waste, fraud and abuse and an Independent Counsel is appointed. Senate hearings begin and Sibel Edmonds, Richard Grove, Indira Sangh, Russell Tice, Richard Clarke, Coleen Rowley, John M. Cole, Glenn Fine, James Comey, Bunny Greenhouse, Janis Karpinski, Karen Kwiatowski and Lawrence Wilkerson all step forward as witnesses.

5. Abramoff and Cunningham blow the whistle on several Republican leaders in the House, Senate and Executive Branch. Several current and former GOP lawmakers and their staff members, a few current and former White House aides and other GOP officials are all indicted. This includes Hastert, Cantor, Sweeney, Roy Blunt, John Doolittle, Richard Pombo, Dana Rohrabacher, Tom Feeney, J.D. Hayworth, Rick Renzi, Conrad Burns, Duncan Hunter, Virgil Goode, Katherine Harris, Louis Gohmert, etc. Brent Wilkes is later indicted himself. Austin, Texas District Attorney Ronnie Earle indicts John Cornyn on charges relating to DeLay/Abramoff money and the SEC charges Bill Frist for his insider trading.

6. Stephen Hadley is indicted by Fitzgerald for perjury and obstruction of justice. Douglas Feith is brought up on espionage charges in the AIPAC case and the forged Niger documents background from Italian Intelligence comes to light. Richard Perle gets implicated in AIPAC as well.

7. Fitzgerald indicts Gonzales for obstruction of justice and Rove is indicted in the Abramoff investigation (this is related to the number of times Jack visited the White House and meetings set up by Norquist). The number of times Gannon visited the White House later becomes a major news story.

8. Congress motions to impeach Bush. The House approves a measure for the House Judiciary Committee to conduct an impeachment inquiry. Impeachment materials and evidence are brought before the Committee. Impeachment proceedings and hearings begin. The House Judiciary Committee begins voting on articles of impeachment. 3 articles are voted out of the Committee. Charges include lying to Congress, abuse of power, obstruction of justice, perjury, contempt of Congress, criminal negligence, misprision of high treason, endangering the security of the nation, conspiracy to commit fraud against the nation, defrauding the government, illegal weapons, illegal wiretaps, etc. All the Democrats on the Committee vote in favor of all three impeachment articles. A good many Republicans on the Committee vote in favor of them.

9. A small delegation of Congressional Republicans led by Dick Lugar and Trent Lott go up to the White House and urge Bush to resign. They make it clear to him that he’s lost all support from the public and his base and that impeachment, conviction and removal from office is inevitable.

10. Bush resigns to avoid impeachment and get a pardon. He fakes an illness.

11. McCain is sworn in as President. He appoints George Pataki as his Vice President. Both houses of Congress vote to confirm Pataki. McCain accepts the resignations of all the Bush cabinet members and senior White House staff. And of course, McCain is Jerry Ford until January 2009.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. Really?

you think that scenario is "most likely"?

What I believe is "most likely" is that no impeachment occurs.

But we'll see.

As to what I called "delusional", though, was the idea that both Bush and Cheney would be impeached and removed, putting Pelosi in the White House. You seem to agree that that won't happen.

[jmowreader]

11. I think this is more likely...

1. Sometime in the next three days of testimony, Scooter Libby will "spontaneously" jump up, change his plea to guilty and throw himself upon the mercy of the court. He'll "accidentally" be put in the wrong cell in jail while awaiting sentencing, and he'll be shanked by a cellmate who believes Libby to be a child molestor.

2. Within the next week or so, Cheney will go to a doctor for a routine checkup. The doctor will find some condition that, while not fatal, will mandate that he move to a tropical climate immediately. He will resign his position and move to the US Virgin Islands.

3. Shrub will appoint his dad as vice-president.

4. Within a week, Shrub will put on his television face for the last time. He will tell the country that he made grave mistakes in the prosecution of the war, Americans died needlessly due to his mistakes, he will shoulder all the blame, and he will resign effective immediately. Bush will then board a chartered Gulfstream jet and fly to Saudi Arabia. The beautiful yet misunderstood Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not only full of people who would put Junior up and feed him as a favor to his dad, it is a nation that has no extradition treaty with the United States.

5. Poppy's first three actions as president: pardon his dipshit son, can his entire cabinet, and bring in people who actually know what the hell they're doing to be his cabinet secretaries.

The GOP cannot afford all of those investigations. They will do ANYTHING to shut them down, including throwing the next four presidential elections.

[conscious evolution]

15. I like that scenario

Good job laying that possible course of events out.With minor variations I see exactly the same thing happening.
Cheney has to be brought down first.He is the dangerous one.

[Cleita]

14. Compared to what we have now, Pelosi doesn't need to prove a whole

lot IMHO.

[mmonk]

16. I say we continue the war.

Maybe we can possibly goad Iran into one. I think we should allow the end of habeus corpus to stand. I don't think the people need to know the truth about the lead up to the war. Let's keep those rendition flights in the air as we need them really bad. I think we all need to have our phones tapped and mail opened. Let's continue to round people up without charge and hold them indefinitely. Remember, the most important thing is concentrating on the 08 presidential race. That constitution thingy can wait for some other generation. Screw our children.