BREAKING: Missing Pregnant Woman, Cadavar Dogs react strongly

[ShaneGR]

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/06/searchers_find_fresh_grave_in.html

Police and fire officials are descending on an area near Aultman Road in Canton that includes freshly dug earth. Several cadaver dogs have reacted strongly to the area.

The team of volunteers, which included members of Jessie Davis' family, came upon the area just after noon. The area is six-foot long and about three-feet wide. Team leaders with the search team, which included law enforcement, probed the area and ordered in more crews.

The area is roughly one mile away from Davis' home.

Family members who were with the team embraced and gathered tightly together and other members arrived within the hour. Davis' father stood above the freshly dug earth, hands on hips with dark glasses on, yelling to get a photographer away from the area.

[Eurobabe]

1. not sounding good

[wicket]

2. nope

:(

[CottonBear]

7. Pregnant women are statistically among the most likely victims of murder.

She had a child with a married police officer and she was about to have another child with him.

I'm not sure what she was thinking when she got pregnant again. Maybe she wasn't. Maybe she was "in love" and desperately wanted him and he didn't want her.

I wonder if the newborn baby found on a doorstep 40 miles away is hers?

Sad story. Definitely foul play. :(

[Eurobabe]

9. yes, but could also be the estranged wife

evidently they had been separated for 8 mos. Motive? Not implausible for a woman to kill another woman out of revenge.

[CottonBear]

10. I hadn't thought of that. I didn't know the husband and wife were estranged.

This is a really tragic story. :(

[Iris]

11. The baby's father was estranged from his wife.

The missing pregnant woman is not married to him.

[Norquist Nemesis]

13. This is baby #2 from him

I heard a news report along the lines that he was planning leave his estranged wife for good (divorce?) and move in permanently with the girlfriend. (It was a couple of days and I don't remember the exact words, sorry)

[elehhhhna]

19. ...he lied, they fought, she's been murdered,

he did it. guaranteed. the end.

[Binka]

60. If Ray Hadn't Been Such A COWARD Peyton & I Would Have met The Same Fate

He knew I had his number and had told too many people what a scumbag he was, but that man (and I use that term lightly) wanted to kill me. All because I exposed his narcissistic anti social BULLSHIT. These men are COWARDS/BULLIES.

Fuck all these bastards to hell.

Hi sugar :hi: :loveya:

[elehhhhna]

63. honey...I had NO IDEA.

binka you deserve some peace.

American males: their impulse control goes haywire and they, well, you know--blast off. OJ Simpson and Phil Spector all over again.

You're settling in well?

:pals:

[Binka]

65. Doing Good But Some Days There Are LOTS Of Tears

I'm closing in on the job thingy and Peyton is in summer school at St Eugenes. I'm lonely and poor but the gift of being free of Ray is such an enormous blessing. Ben is getting out of the Marines and should be up to visit soon. I'll cry on his shoulder when he gets here. I held his hand when he needed it now it's my turn. :hug:

[elehhhhna]

67. poor sweetie. I feel for ya.

[TheWraith]

90. This would be another good place to use that perspective you demonstrated elsewhere.

"American males: their impulse control goes haywire and they, well, you know--blast off."

Imagine for a second how incredibly wrong and inappropriate that statement would be if, instead of men, the subject was black people, or Arabs, or any other group.

The fact that you can get away with blaming an entire class of people for a handful who misbehave doesn't make it right, any more than it's appropriate to hold all black people responsible for the Rwandan genocide. Or for that matter, to treat all women as serial killers because of the actions of Aileen Wuornos or Kristen Gilbert.

[elehhhhna]

94. cripes you must have missed the next line about OJ Simpson

come on now. Other civilized nations (Netherlands, for example) don't have near the level of grotesque violence that we do.

Blame Rwandan hate radio for the Rwandan genocides. Couldn't have happened without it.


I've apparently made some rather broad statements recently.

[Orsino]

115. Well, as an American male...

...I now know how the cavemen feel.

[TheWraith]

72. Hey look everybody, it's Nancy Grace!

Out of curiousity, were you there? Did you witness a murder? No? Then put away the flaming nostrils of justice, because you really don't understand what you're talking about beyond a knee-jerk mob verdict on the first available suspect.

[elehhhhna]

77. that's well written, funny, and I'll take it .

But he still did it.

[TheWraith]

88. Well, I'll hand it to you, you have a better sense of perspective than most people.

But I still think prejudging these situations is inappropriate.

[elehhhhna]

92. I appreciate that. Prejudging is inappropriate and I am indulging

in judgemental behavior.

I also judge that you write an excellenet slam. Your slap at me was compelling. Thanks! It was refreshing.

[madeline_con]

108. "... flaming nostrils of justice..."

:rofl:

[elehhhhna]

119. that's worth stealing. best flame of elena, ever.

[knitter4democracy]

93. Maybe. It sounds a lot like a story from NE Ohio a few years back.

A woman was murdered for her baby. Another woman had been telling everyone she was preggers when she wasn't, and when she saw the victim in Walmart in the baby aisle, she targeted her. She came to the house because they were selling a car, took her to her house, sliced her open to get the baby out, and let her die.

The bleach on the floor and the comforter gone makes me wonder if the same thing happened here.

[LisaL]

102. If that was the case, why take the body?

That other story, was the body taken?

[knitter4democracy]

118. Yes. She buried her in her driveway and put more gravel over the body.

She abducted the mother so she could take the baby in her house. Then she cleaned everything up and buried the mother in her driveway. Horrifying.

[blondie58]

111. and very similar to this story that happened in Greeley, CO

http://greeleytribune.com/article/20070124/NEWS/70123018&SearchID=73284878982053http://greeleytribune.com/article/20070420/NEWS/104190141
http://greeleytribune.com/article/20070420/NEWS/104190141


Greeley is very small town USA, very conservative and home of Marilyn Musgrave.

The husband of the alleged killer may have helped her to hide the gun, last report I read. But he is going to raise the baby, who isn't even his. I feel so sorry for the children involved in this case.


This is so sad. People should think of all of the innocent victims when they plan to have an affair.

[FloridaJudy]

103. Probably, but not necessarily

Years ago, one of my pregnant clients was assaulted. It was her husband's boss: he waited until the husband was busy, drove to their trailer, beat up his employee's wife and raped her. She survived and testified, and the loathsome creep was sent to jail for a very long time. She did give birth prematurely - probably due to the stress - but the last I heard, she and the baby were doing well physically. Mentally, I expect it's going to take her a long time to recover.

Statistically, the woman's partner is the most likely suspect, but it doesn't always follow that he's the guilty party.

[JoDog]

21. Larry King last night

discussed the case. The most telling part came when King asked the mother of the missing woman how the father of the child felt about the second pregnancy. Her response was "I'd rather not discuss that right now."

Gave me the chills.

The unborn child is his 4th kid with 3 different women--1 with his estranged wife, 2 with the missing woman, and 1 with another woman he was not married to.

[Sequoia]

53. Another woman? Who is this?

[DesertRat]

85. I don't know if the wife could remove her from the house

It would take a lot of strength to move an unconscious or dead person. At nine months pregnant she had to weigh 150+ lbs. My guess would be a very strong man did it.

My heart goes out to the family and especially the 2 year old boy who was home at the time. :cry:

[ljm2002]

121. Okay, I've been watching too much L & O / CSI...

...but it seems to me that it would be relatively easy if you roll the body (or unconscious person) up in a rug or comforter and drag them out to the car, then drag the bundle up into the back. I could do it, and I am neither male, young nor particularly fit. Note, I could not lift 150 lbs and carry it for any length -- but that's why we humans invented tools, including ramps and the like. I have no doubt this could be done and without that much difficulty.

[SoCalDem]

17. Complicated lives often end badly..

I feel so sad for her little boy. he will grow up and feel enormous guilt, even though he could have done nothing to stop it..

It may sound prudish to say this, but there is something to be said for a husband & wife (married to each other) having children and looking out for each other.

Single motherhood is about the most difficult thing there is, and some of those women are very vulnerable to smooth-talkers and extreme feelings.. (their own and the people they hook up with)..

[blondie58]

112. that is not prudish at all, SoCalDem

that is ideal and wonderful if it happens that way.

Unfortunately for me, I chose the wrong man.

It wasn't until he literally tried to kill my cat that I realized that I had to take my daughters and leave. I saw finally that I was sending them the wrong message when I told them to "be quiet, Daddy's in a bad mood. Or don't do that, you'll make Daddy mad."

[AngryAmish]

25. Do you have a cite for that?

Men are 3x more likely to be murder victims than women.

[Madspirit]

27. The NUMBER One Killer

The NUMBER ONE killer of pregnant women is at the hands of the father of their baby.
Lee

[AngryAmish]

39. cite please

[Madspirit]

41. Not Your Secretary

Call ANY battered women's shelter...a place I volunteer. Look at the DOJ. Google it. It's out there with NO dispute. It's a common stat.
Lee

[Madspirit]

44. Place to Start

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2005/07/dv_stats.html

Or go to NOW...National Organization of Women

Or go the National Domestic Abuse stats...just google that.

Tons of place.

...and you will also see that the number ONE killer of women...is men and the number one killer of MEN is MEN.

Lee

[AngryAmish]

45. no stats on muderer of pregnant women there

[Marie26]

46. Murder: The Leading Cause of Death for Pregnant Women

http://www.now.org/issues/violence/043003pregnant.html

[Shakespeare]

47. THANK you.

That poster pulls this shit every time there's a mention of violence against women. It gets rather....tiresome.

[theHandpuppet]

49. Yep -- that's a well-known statistic

Been out there for years. Anyone who questions it just isn't paying attention.

[AngryAmish]

51. So is the myth that women are attacked during the Super Bowl

Don't make it true, tho.

[Shakespeare]

58. Red herring.

Non Sequitur.

Bullshit.

Choose whatever term suits you.

[Marie26]

56. I agree. nt

[CottonBear]

48. Thank you. I was the victim of abuse and my ex tried to kill me.

Thank goodness, I wasn't pregnant and that I survived the ordeal. He tried to kill me when I left him which is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship.

I don't know why the other poster doesn't believe that pregnant women are vulnerable to abuse and assault by the men in their lives.

[AngryAmish]

50. I did not say that

I am skeptical that pregnant women are murdered in larger numbers than non-pregnant women.

It has the whiff of urban myth to it.

[EFerrari]

61. Maybe it's the emphasis. My ex during an episode

couldn't have kept track if I was carrying or not. And, when I was, he experienced it as a hostile abandonment of him on my part. :(

[Morgana LaFey]

70. No urban myth -- go look it up yourself. You were given some

clues for where to look.

[Marie26]

117. And here comes

the women-hating brigade, on cue.

[Marie26]

122. It's one of the most dangerous times

I'm so sorry. :hug: It's common knowledge in any organization that deals with domestic violence. The two most dangerous times for an abused woman are when she is pregnant, and when she attempts to leave. I'm not sure if the other posters are ignorant, or obtuse.

[AngryAmish]

54. This is what Jack Shafer at Slate had to say about this

"The pivotal research in her piece is "Enhanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality--Maryland, 1993-1998," a 2001 study of 247 "pregnancy-associated" deaths in Maryland between 1993 and 1998 published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. It found that "a pregnant or recently pregnant woman is more likely to be a victim of homicide than to die of any other cause," which St. George quotes favorably.

But the horror of this JAMA study recedes as you read it. We all know what a pregnant woman is: someone who's carrying a baby. But what is a "recently pregnant" woman? The JAMA study defines the phrase very broadly. By its definition, mothers who give birth are recently pregnant for the 365 days following delivery. Women whose pregnancies end for any reason are also recently pregnant for 365 days after termination. So, a woman who had an abortion, miscarried, or gave birth to a baby would qualify for inclusion in this mortality study if she died with a year of that event."

Read the whole thing.

[Iris]

66. How does that change the fact that when a woman gets pregnant she is at her most vulnerable?

Many doctors consider the time AFTER a woman gives birth as the "fourth" trimester. Why would the problems that lead up to murder stop AFTER a child is born or an abortion occurs? If anything, she's even more at risk.

[AngryAmish]

71. Well, I didn't say that

What started this was my skepticism that pregnant women are statistically among the most likely victims of murder. When looking at the population as a whole that is hogwash -- the Justice Dept. says men have a murder rate 3x that of women.

The murder of a pregnant woman justifiably gets headlines - because of it's rarity and the outrage attached. You do not read headlines when human turd A kills human turd B over a craps game.

So, did I claim that pregnant women were not vulnerable? No.

I just don't believe a pregnant woman is MORE likely to be killed than the average person or average woman.

[piedmont]

74. There's nothing in there that supports what Madspirit said upthread.

She said that the number 1 killer of pregnant women is the father of the baby. I can't find anything like that in your link or hers.

[TheWraith]

81. That factoid actually means very little.

Yes, it's true that murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women. But that's also a phrase which is designed to shock and produce an inaccurate impression in the reader, which is that pregnant women are at a significant risk of murder, or more so than non-pregnant women, which isn't neccessarily true.

For starters, examining the raw data will tell you that murders of pregnant women are a relatively rare subset of murders in general. Furthermore, if you're young and healthy--which are almost universal traits among pregnant women--then the major risks for death are by murder, accidents, or complications of the pregnancy. Even the most generous estimate puts murder as the cause of 1/5th of pregnant women's deaths, which makes it only a few hundred cases a year at the most. To put it in perspective, the sum total of pregnancy-related complications are far more likely to be fatal than the possibility of murder--and we all know how relatively rare deaths from complications are these days.

Part of what helps create the impression is that the murder or disappearence of a pregnant woman is considered to somehow be more newsworthy or notable than the same thing happening to a non-pregnant woman, or a random person off the street. The lens of the media magnifies the issue. So while some pregnant women do get murdered, women shouldn't feel compelled to stockpile handguns and birth control pills. The danger is pretty low.

[Morgana LaFey]

105. Disgusting

Your post, that is.

For starters, examining the raw data will tell you that murders of pregnant women are a relatively rare subset of murders in general.

To put it in perspective, the sum total of pregnancy-related complications are far more likely to be fatal than the possibility of murder--and we all know how relatively rare deaths from complications are these days.

Why yes, let's put it in a perspective that diminishes, dismisses and if at all possible disappears the problem.

Violence against women -- ALL women -- at the hands of men is an epidemic. NO WOMAN SHOULD DIE AT THE HANDS OF SOME MAN, simply because she is a woman. It's a HATE CRIME. No woman should be beaten because she is a woman, and no woman should ever be raped. Get off your analytical high horse and get a clue: these are hate crimes.

As someone so eloquently put it in a thread yesterday: "violence against a few individuals that is meant to terrorize a whole population." That applies to gays, women, minorities. Hate crimes like these are meant to terrorize a whole population IN ORDER TO manipulate and control them: keep them "in the closet," subservient, quiet, compliant, not making waves, shy and retiring (certainly not "uppity"), keep them from asking for or insisting on their full rights as citizens, keep them out of public, on and on. And afraid and shaking in their boots is a nice extra benefit.

[Marie26]

123. Sigh

"Yes, it's true that murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women. But that's also a phrase which is designed to shock and produce an inaccurate impression in the reader, which is that pregnant women are at a significant risk of murder, or more so than non-pregnant women, which isn't neccessarily true."

Oh, so the fact that pregnant women are more likely to die of murder than any other cause is a "factoid?" Yes, pregnant women are at a higher risk of murder than non-pregnant women. They are more likely to die of homicide than any medical cause, or any pregnancy complication. Among women in general, the leading causes of death are heart disease, cancer, & stroke. Murder isn't even in the top 10 causes. But among pregnant women, murder is the number one cause of death. Pregnant women face a much higher homicide risk than women in general. Instead of being safer while pregnant, women are actually more in danger of a violent death. This society is messed up.

Many New or Expectant Mothers Die Violent Deaths

A year-long examination by The Washington Post of death-record data in states across the country documents the killings of 1,367 pregnant women and new mothers since 1990. This is only part of the national toll, because no reliable system is in place to track such cases.

Largely invisible, it is a phenomenon that is as consequential as it is poorly understood. Even in the past two years -- as the Laci Peterson homicide case has become a public fascination, with a jury last week recommending that her husband, Scott, be sentenced to death in her killing -- little has been said about the larger convergence of pregnancy and homicide: how often it happens, why, and whether it is a fluke or a social syndrome.

Until recently, many of the cases have gone virtually unstudied, uncounted, untracked. Police agencies across the country do not regularly ask about maternal status when they investigate homicides. And health experts have focused historically on the medical complications of pregnancy -- embolism, hemorrhage, infection -- not on fatal violence.

The Post's analysis shows that the killings span racial and ethnic groups. In cases whose details were known, 67 percent of women were killed with firearms. Many women were slain at home -- in bedrooms, living rooms, kitchens -- usually by men they knew. Husbands. Boyfriends. Lovers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10074-2004Dec18.html

CDC leading causes of death - http://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod.htm

[Madspirit]

52. Yes there is

At both the Mother Jones site. You have to put your mouse over the squares. ...and at NOW.

Lee

[Morgana LaFey]

69. You didn't look very far. Try it again. nt

[AngryAmish]

78. This can get into the same BS flamewar stuff

I say BS. You say BS. Blah blah blah.

There were 2 extraordinary claims made above.

1. Pregnant women are statistically among the most likely victims of murder

2. Fathers are the most likely murderer of a pregnant woman

Of these (statistics aside) #2 makes the most intuitive sense - women are more likely to be killed by someone they know that a stranger on the street.

#1 is what I call BS on. From what I have dug up (see the Slate article) it seems pregnant women are less likely to be killed than the population as a whole and even less likely than women in their age cohort. If I can be refuted, fine. I am amenable to proof. But don't accuse me of stuff I haven't said (and you haven't) and come forward with some statistics (with cites so we can check).

[Morgana LaFey]

104. Ah, you've brought out the red herrings again

No one made the claim that Pregnant women are statistically among the most likely victims of murder, or if they did I missed it. Care to point it out?

And as for fathers, fathers = intimate partners (from an 2003 article):

Among all murders of women across the country in 2000—the most recent yearly statistics available from the U.S. Department of Justice—more than 33 percent were killed by an intimate partner.

snip

Homicide was found to be the leading cause of death for pregnant women in Maryland, according to a March 2001 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Using death records and coroner reports, state health department researchers found 247 pregnancy-associated deaths between 1993 and 1998. Among those deaths, 50 were murders. By comparison, homicide was the fifth-leading cause of death among Maryland women. And, nationwide, the maternal mortality rate was just 9.9 percent in 1999, the most recent year for which statistics are available.

Nationally, homicide is a leading killer of young women—pregnant or not. In 1999, homicide was the second-leading cause of death among women ages 20 to 24. It was fifth among women ages 25-34. Accidents are the top cause of death in both age groups.

The Maryland study reinforced at least two earlier studies that found homicide to be the top killer of pregnant women. In Cook County, Ill., 26 percent of the 95 deaths of pregnant women recorded between 1986 and 1989 were slain. In New York, 25 percent of the 293 deaths among pregnant women between 1987 and 1991 were homicides.
Reprinted with the permission of the Associated Press. Copyright 2003.
http://www.now.org/issues/violence/043003pregnant.html

This article was the very first one that appears in a simple google search which you couldn't be bothered to do: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=murder+pregnant+women&btnG=Google+Search


Or perhaps you'd prefer some DOJ figures:
1. 73 percent of family violence victims are female. (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fvs.pdf )

2. Homicide is second leading cause of death among pregnant women. (Source: “Homicide: A Leading Cause of Injury Deaths Among Pregnant and Postpartum Women in the United States, 1991-1999.” American Journal of Public Health. March 2005, Vol 95, No.3.)

3. 83 percent of spouse murderers are male. (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fvs.pdf

and let's put that last statistic into a little more context: 33% of women murdered are killed by their mates; 2.7% of men murdered are killed by their mates

Now. I'm done with you and your arrogant demands, and your stupid disbelief and concomitant defense of violence against women.

[AngryAmish]

113. reply #7 above

"Pregnant women are statistically among the most likely victims of murder."

as for the maryland study, I provided a link to an old Slate article that looked at those numbers. In sum, pregnant is defined in that study as women who are actually pregnant or have been pregnant for 365 days prior. When the numbers are broken down to women who are actually pregnant it is revealed that women with child are murdered at about the same rate as women who are not pregnant.

Now:

1. Stop calling me names. It is impolite.
2. Disbelief/skepticism is never stupid. Blind faith is. If one is not amenable to truth then one's mind is truly closed. Never believe comfortable truths because they are sometimes wrong.
3. If you can show me where I have defended violence against women that would be the day.

[Morgana LaFey]

120. Stop calling you names?

Oh, you'll KNOW when I start.

But like I said: I'm not playing your stupid games. Bye.

[piedmont]

73. Please give a link or cite text to support that claim. nt

[CottonBear]

28. I was referring only to women. Pregnant women are vulnerable to abuse

(physical and mental), assault and murder.

In my community, there are adds and signs everywhere about how one is vulnerable to abuse when pregnant. :(

[AngryAmish]

40. Just because there are signs does not make it true.

That is why a cite would be helpful.

Cheers!

[annarbor]

79. In domestic situations?????????

I find that hard to believe....

Ann Arbor

[AngryAmish]

114. nope, overall

Women are abused and murdered by their husbands/partners at a much higher rate.

[liberalnurse]

29. Who is the daddy?

The same fella from the first child or is their another man in the loop? Has jealousy, controlling abuse struck again?

[likesmountains 52]

106. Do you have data to support that? I know hey get a lot of media attention..

but statistically among the most likely to be murdered? There are millions of pg women walking around every day..

[MidwestTransplant]

3. Why wait to start digging? Isn't it possible she was burried alive?

I would think the dogs may hit on living people too.

[azurnoir]

24. No they aren't

Cadaver dogs are specifically trained to search for the odor of decaying flesh, there is a scent analog for rotting flesh that is used to train them, the stuff was popular with hardcore (really hardcore) Punks in my area a few years back.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

62. Now THERE's information I didn't like to know.

:scared: :puke:

[TheWraith]

82. If she were, she would long since have run out of air.

If this is where she is, it's long since become a recovery operation. Besides which, they probably have started digging. However, since it's a possible crimescene, they have to proceed carefully to avoid possibly destroying evidence.

[Bunny]

4. MSNBC is saying there will be a news conference at 5:30.

It doesn't look good at all. :(

[Midlodemocrat]

5. Damn. I was hoping for a different outcome.

:cry:

And, yes, I realize we don't know everything yet, I'm going with the odds.

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. Same here, but it just was looking worse w/each hour

Damn. :(

[samq79]

6. So sad...brings back thoughts of Lacey Peterson...n/t

[magellan]

57. In one of the photos she looks like Lacey Peterson too

Very sad update.

[Eurobabe]

12. MSNBC interviewing Dog searcher, grave might be another dog

not a person, conflicting reports now.

[ORDagnabbit]

14. why is this national news? n/t

[HereSince1628]

15. Because the story on increased problems with bears lost viewers?

[RB TexLa]

16. Must have been some kind of actor or singer

[Beaverhausen]

18. If your daughter was missing, wouldn't you want everyone in the nation to be looking for her?

[dmallind]

20. NO

I'd want professionals left alone to do their jobs. I'd want gawpers and newspaper shysters away from my damn face and off my lawn, and I'd want everybody else to mind their own damn business and stop pretending they know about mine based on a couple of snippets from newstainment shills.

And my mother in law was abducted and found murdered a couple months later, so not exactly a hypothetical case.

[johnnie]

22. I live close to this

The family has been very vocal and have done a lot with the media to ask for help. The woman's sister did a walk through of the house with the local news media and seemed to want to get information out to people. The search team from Texas is there and was on tv asking for volunteers. I guess each person would react differently on this situation.

[npincus]

31. dreadful

[wake.up.america]

23. Tragic, but more attention should be given to the mess in Iraq. This is local news.

[greyghost]

110. Exactly n/t

[Recursion]

32. EquuSearch

EquuSearch is a volunteer organization run by somebody who had a similar tragedy; part of what they do is hype up media attention when they can (generally only works for young or pregnant caucasian women) to help with publicity, which in the case of a missing person is your best chance.

So, yes, it sucks that had she been more brown or less pregnant or something this probably wouldn't be on TV, but I'm sure for her family the fact that people all over the country knew what she looked like and that she was missing must be some comfort.

[CottonBear]

37. A young black woman went missing in my city a few years ago.

The police kept the story in the news and her picture out there. Finally, there was a break. After over a year, her body was found in a backyard grave underneath a fenced pit bull kennel.
:(
A man's body was found too.

They were both murdered by her estranged boyfriend. :(

[greyghost]

109. Great question...n/t

[Algorem]

26. 6" X 3"?More dumbest criminals.Make it a little more obvious why

don't you.Blood simple i guess.Weird coincidence-saw this post on DU about 2:30 so I turned on TV to see if any Cleveland station was reporting it (weren't) and whatever soap opera that is on at that time on NBC was doing a scene where a cop or 2 and some other people were searching woods for "Jessica" and they pan down to a coffin buried right underneath them and "Jessica" is buried alive in the coffin and yelling out to her father and before they go to commercial the cop says he hears something.

[Recursion]

30. I nearly lost it when an article quoted her 2-year-old son

"Mommy was crying. Mommy broke the table. Mommy's in the rug"

I don't even want to think about what that kid saw or what that last sentence means...

[helderheid]

33. JESUS I hadn't heard that - he witnessed it???

[Recursion]

35. That was on the AP story Yahoo had

I'm sure they've got a child psychologist with him now; I don't know
A) if a 2-year-old would understand a murder if he saw one
B) that he would tell the truth about it if he did

Either way that kid is really going to need a lot of help

[Morgana LaFey]

76. kids don't lie. They don't have much of a frame of reference for it

and why would they anyway?

In this particular case, the comforter off her bed was missing along with her. The end table was, indeed, knocked over. Van Zant on NBC (former FBI profiler) speculates that she was wrapped in the comforter and removed from the home, or that the comforter held "evidence" the perp didn't want found. There was also bleach spilled on the floor. Don't know what that's about. The father of her baby is not a suspect (tho he should be, IMO -- but perhaps they're hiding that from him at the moment).

[LisaL]

83. Kids are highly impressionable.

They don't lie intentionally, but they can be easily misled with leading questions.
That's why anybody who questions the child will have to be really careful. His family was asked not to question the child about anything, or false memories can be planted.

[Recursion]

84. 2 year olds don't "lie" in the sense that adults do

ie, say something that they know is false for some purpose (IIRC that develops in most kids around 5 or 6). But 2 year olds don't understand the world as being divided into interior ("me") and exterior ("everything else") quite as strongly as adults do, with the result that they often say things that are not factually true, by the adult standard of reality.

[kath]

124. Actually, a 2-year-old can be quite useful as a witness in a murder case - I know this from 1st-hand

experience. My then-32-month-old niece's statements made to a police officer right after she witnessed the murder of her mother (my hubby's sister) by her abusive ex-spouse were *fundamental* to the scumbag being convicted on a first-degree murder charge, rather than him getting off on a lesser charge (if he'd gotten 2nd-degree instead of first, the asshole would have been out of jail a long time ago and might have ended up with custody of the kids <shudder>. We were so terrified of not getting the first-degree conviction, which in Colorado carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison, with no chance of parole for 40 years. Scumbag now has at least 21 years to go.)

She had quite good verbal skills for a 32-month-old, and we are eternally grateful to the female police officer who thought to take a statement from such a young child when police arrived at the house after the shooting. My niece had been in the room when my sister-in-law was shot (her 7 year-old brother was in the next room getting dressed and getting ready to run to the neighbor's for help), and she told the police officer how her daddy taunted mom with the gun, then cocked the gun (it had a special sort of safety which made it difficult for it to discharge accidentally), then shot her - "Daddy took the gun, and he put it in Mommy's pants, then he put it at Mommy's shirt, then he pulled the thing in the back (the safety), and he put it at Mommy's head and he gave Mommy a big owie".

Scumbag tried at trial to argue that he was too drunk to know what he was doing, that the gun went off by accident, blah, blah, but my niece's statement (admissible in court as an "excited utterance"), along with a few other circumstances, was instrumental in showing "forethought and judgement" (Colorado's legal phrase for what is usually called "premeditation", necessary for a first-degree murder conviction) and secured a 1st-degree conviction.

On appeal, scumbag's attorneys argued over the admissibility of the "excited utterance" and some other things, but thankfully the 1st-degree conviction was upheld.

[Nickster]

36. Yeah, I heard them discussing this last night on the way home. They said that they were shocked at

how much detail the little kid gave them and that their only clues were what the kid had given them.

[AspenRose]

34. I know. That broke my heart.

My son is 2 and I'm pregnant with #2. I'm trying to stay away from this story for obvious reasons but it's sort of like watching a train wreck. :-(

[Sequoia]

55. Hugs.

[johnnie]

42. I was wondering something

You would think he would have known who did it, especially if it was his father. I wondered if he said it was, but they wanted to have more evidence. Or, if the little boy said it was his father, it was a bit risky putting him on the news saying the things he said.

I don't know if my thoughts are clear there, but I guess what I'm saying is, it leads me to believe the father didn't do it. Unless he was wearing a mask. :shrug:

[elehhhhna]

64. clever, johnnie! Some cop on MSNBC (?) stated that just b/c

they've announced that the child said "Mom's in the rug" IN NO WAY meansa he didn't also say much, much more.

Put ten bucks on Daddy.

[LisaL]

68. We don't know everything the child said.

The grandma said the child has been questioned by people with special training to question children. We don't know what the child told these people.

[johnnie]

75. My point was that they let him speak in front of news cameras

I would think it would be a bit risky to let a two year old in front of cameras saying what he was saying. If he would have blurted out "My mommy is with daddy" or something, things could have been messy. I doubt the news would have cut it. Maybe they would, but I doubt it.

[LisaL]

80. When did they let him speak in front of TV cameras?

All I've seen is his photo shown.
I didn't actually see him say mommy's in the rug. It was reported he said mommy's in the rug.

[johnnie]

86. Go here

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/13526700/detail.html

On the right in the video section click on "2-year-old repeats phrase"

[GreenPartyVoter]

95. Yah. that poor baby

[ronnykmarshall]

38. Oh no.

This doesn't sound good.

[EFerrari]

43. Oh, no.

Laci Peterson's body washed up where I walked my dog every morning.

Horrible. I hope that family has the support they will need. :(

[caligirl]

91. We had lunch with our kids at the Cliff House the day he dumped her in the bay

Still remember the choppy water and bright sunshine.

[EFerrari]

107. That poor family. Sometimes I wish I were religious.

:(

[GreenPartyVoter]

59. The two year old said mommy left in a rug, I suspect they may find it now. :^(

[calimary]

96. OMG. The two-year-old said Mommy left in a rug???

Dear God. That means nothing but bad. Gee, THAT kid won't be messed up or anything, 'eh?

[GreenPartyVoter]

97. Yah. Mommy way crying. Mommy broke the table. Mommy left in a rug

:cry:

[helderheid]

98. If I were to guess, I'd say she was thrown on the table.

:cry:

[GreenPartyVoter]

99. Sounds like it. Easy to make a 9 mos pregnant woman lose her balance, especially if you

take a running head start at her. :mad:

[librechik]

87. Updte: Search called off today cuz of rain

could be wrong, but apparently that disturbed earth story didn't go anywhere.

AP reports: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MISSING_WOMAN?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Volunteers searched the area around Davis' northeast Ohio home
for about 41/2 hours before the effort was suspended because of heavy
rain

[Hepburn]

89. This is just breaking my heart....

...I just read that her two-year-old son is asking for his mom...and the tears started down my face.

[dogday]

100. This is such a sad story and so commonplace when it

comes to pregnant women and the men who don't want them to be... I am not accusing the "Father" of this act.. I am talking in general... Without facts I withhold judgement...

[uppityperson]

101. POT farm, link, story here. Marijuana plot.

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/2163842

Dirt patch found during search for missing mom is marijuana farm.
(clip)
An FBI evidence crew and investigators spent several hours examining a site of freshly dug dirt in a field at the end of a dirt road more than a mile from Davis' home. Family members who were with the team that found the spot embraced when it was discovered.
But the site turned out to be a marijuana plot, about 6-feet long and 3-feet wide, said Stark County sheriff's Capt. Gary Shankle. Investigators responded to the scene because the freshly dug dirt caused a reaction among private search dogs, he said.

[Buttercup McToots]

116. Anything yet?

:cry: