CHENEY: "VP OFFICE NOT PART OF EXECUTIVE BRANCH"

[kpete]

Cheney tells agency that Vice President's office is not part of the executive branch Michael Roston
Published: Thursday June 21, 2007


The Office of Vice President Dick Cheney told an agency within the National Archives that for purposes of securing classified information, the Vice President's office is not an 'entity within the executive branch' according to a letter released Thursday by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

"The Oversight Committee has learned that over the objections of the National Archives, you exempted the Office of the Vice President from the presidential executive order that establishes a uniform, government-wide system for safeguarding classified national security information," Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), the Committee's chairman, wrote in a letter to Cheney. "Your decision to exempt your office from the President's order is problematic because it could place national security secrets at risk. It is also hard to understand given the history of security breaches involving officials in your office."

Waxman noted that Cheney's office had declared itself not affected by an executive order amended by President George W. Bush in 2003 regarding classification and declassification of government materials.

"Your position was that your office 'does not believe it is included in the definition of 'agency' as set forth in the Order' and 'does not consider itself an 'entity within the executive branch' that comes into the possession of classified information,'" a National Archives official claims Cheney chief of staff David Addington wrote to him.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Cheney_tells_agency_that_Vice_Presidents_0621.html


UPDATE

Vice President Exempts His Office from the Requirements for Protecting Classified Information

Washington, D.C. -- The Oversight Committee has learned that over the objections of the National Archives, Vice President Cheney exempted his office from the presidential order that establishes government-wide procedures for safeguarding classified national security information. The Vice President asserts that his office is not an "entity within the executive branch."

more at:
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371

[babylonsister]

1. Oh, goody! That means executive privilege doesn't apply to him, right? nt

[Beelzebud]

3. GREAT POINT!

[originalpckelly]

8. Ooooh, now you're thinking!

I like it! :woohoo:

Just turn the argument back on him and watch the little rat bastard squirm.

[myrna minx]

20. I like the way you think. n/t

[EFerrari]

24. Send it to Waxman!

:rofl:

[calimary]

98. Don't just send it to Waxman, CALL Waxman! AND ANOTHER Rep, too.

Doesn't even matter who you call. Just THAT you call. Call your rep. Call somebody else's. They ALL need to hear from us about this, and PRONTO!!! republi-CONS, too! Ask THEM how THEY'D feel if some Democrat thumbed his or her nose in their faces the way cheney's doing now.

You can do it TOLL FREE:

1 (800) 828 - 0498

1 (800) 459 - 1887

1 (800) 614 - 2803

1 (866) 220 - 0044

1 (866) 340 - 9281

1 (866) 338 - 1015

1 (877) 851 - 6437

1 (888) 851 - 1879

They all work, although some of 'em are busy.

Not much is at stake. Only our future... our Constitution... our system of laws and of justice...

[EFerrari]

105. What you said, calimary!

:kick:

[Roland99]

30. he he

:evilgrin:

[endarkenment]

38. The weasel explicitly avoids that.

"for purposes of securing classified information" - as usual they are fully aware of the crimes they are committing.

[cascadiance]

48. And maybe we only need a simple majority to impeach and convict him too?

... like the rest of the peons besides Bush, not a 2/3rds majority of the Senate?

[colorado_ufo]

54. I like it! However -

I am not sure if I like it enough to use it to set precedent. This is a two-edged blade.

[Tom Joad]

63. maybe then he is due no jets or secret service protection either

Let him line-up at airports.

[stlsaxman]

141. and maybe we can suspend payments on his

pace-maker/auto-defribulator...

i HATE thinking that my tax dollars go toward THAT...

[Hart2008]

65. I've posted that before. The VP is the President of the Senate per US Constitution.

Anything that Bush told Cheney, any documents sent to Cheney's office, were made available to the President of the Senate, which is, of course, constitutionally in the legislative branch of government.

It appears that in doing so, any claim of "executive privilege" has been waived!

Furthermore, as I have posted, since Cheney is not in the Executive branch of government, his removal via impeachment is more analogous to the expulsion of a member of the Senate, than the impeachment of the POTUS.

[trogdor]

75. So how come he gets a seat at the table...

...in the White House? He's both, and therefore, he's subject to the same executive branch regulations as everybody else who nominally works for Bush (at his pleasure, of course).

[Hart2008]

80. The VP at the White House is relatively new in U.S. politics.

Typically, the VP is the President's hatchet man who does his dirty business, but he only gets a seat at the WH if the President wants him to have one. The President could ask a Senator to sit in on his cabinet meetings if he wants. It doesn't make that Senator a part of the Executive branch. Same thing with the VP.

Constitutionally, the VP is the President of the Senate with the only real power of breaking ties. Since this rarely happens the VP rarely presides over the Senate. Since the President and VP are usually elected as a team, the President usually uses the VP as part of his team, but this does not change his official "legislative" status under the Constitution. I don't see why the Senate can't force him to testify about things in the Senate, unless he claims some form of "xecutive privilege" as President of the Senate crap. But that would be a claim to be decided by the Senate itself, not by the courts. The Senate has all kinds of arcane rules about things. The easiest way to force him to testify is impeachment. No need to worry about breaking filibusters then, since the Senate would be sitting as a court with the Chief Justice presiding.

[Hart2008]

85. Growth of the office of Vice President

Growth of the office

For much of its existence, the office of Vice President was seen as little more than a minor position. John Adams, the first vice president, described it as "the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived." §Even 150 years later, 32nd Vice President John Nance Garner famously described the office as "not worth a pitcher of warm piss" (at the time reported with the bowdlerization "spit"). Thomas R. Marshall, the 28th Vice President, lamented: "Once there were two brothers. One went away to sea; the other was elected vice president. And nothing was heard of either of them again." When the Whig Party was looking for a vice president on Zachary Taylor's ticket, they approached Daniel Webster, who said of the offer "I do not intend to be buried until I am dead." The natural stepping stone to the Presidency was long considered to be the office of Secretary of State. It has only been fairly recently that this notion has reversed; indeed, the notion was still very much alive when Harry Truman became the vice president for Franklin Roosevelt.

For many years, the vice president was given few responsibilities. After John Adams attended a meeting of the president's Cabinet in 1791, no Vice President did so again until Thomas Marshall stood in for President Woodrow Wilson while he traveled to Europe in 1918 and 1919. Marshall's successor, Calvin Coolidge, was invited to meetings by President Warren G. Harding. The next Vice President, Charles G. Dawes, was not invited after declaring that "the precedent might prove injurious to the country." Vice President Charles Curtis was also precluded from attending by President Herbert Hoover.
Harry Truman had been vice president only three months when he became president; he was never informed of Franklin Roosevelt's war and postwar policies.
Harry Truman had been vice president only three months when he became president; he was never informed of Franklin Roosevelt's war and postwar policies.

In 1933, Roosevelt raised the stature of the office by renewing the practice of inviting the vice president to cabinet meetings, which has been maintained by every president since. Roosevelt's first vice president, John Nance Garner, broke with him at the start of the second term, on the Court-packing issue, and became Roosevelt's leading political enemy. Garner's successor, Henry Wallace, was given major responsibilities during the war, but moved further to the left than the Democratic Party and the rest of the Roosevelt administration, and was relieved of actual power. Roosevelt kept his last vice president, Harry Truman, uninformed on all war and postwar issues, such as the atomic bomb, leading Truman to wryly remark that the job of the vice president is to "go to weddings and funerals." The need to keep vice presidents informed on national security issues became clear, and Congress made the vice president one of four statutory members of the National Security Council in 1949.

Richard Nixon reinvented the office of vice president. He had the attention of the media and the Republican party, and Eisenhower ordered him to preside at Cabinet meetings in his absence. Nixon was also the first vice president to temporarily assume control of the executive branch; he did so after Eisenhower suffered a heart attack on September 24, 1955; ileitis in June 1956; and a stroke in November 1957.

President Jimmy Carter was the first president to formally give the vice president an office in the West Wing of the White House.

Despite the mostly minor role, some Vice Presidents are regarded as powerful politicians while in office (i.e. Martin Van Buren, Walter Mondale, George H.W. Bush, Al Gore and Dick Cheney).\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States

[Jawja]

146. Because he IS

the POTUS. The thug George W. Bush is "President" is name only. He is the front man for Cheney.

[bdamomma]

156. W is the front only to the religious fundis, and Cheney runs everything.

[TahitiNut]

87. Where is his salary and office staff budgeted?

:shrug:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

123. Halliburton, Inc.

Methinks.

[TahitiNut]

127. I heard they out-sourced the expense to the taxpayers.

:dunce:

[kurtyboy]

140. The Cheney plan to avoid (or at least delay) prosecution

Cheney is exploiting a Constitutional vulnerability in the separation of powers, initially brought on by the afterthought of the Founders. When they met in Convention in 1787, they needed to determine what role, if any would be played by the VP, who in the unamended Constitution was the presidential candidate that garnered the second highest elector vote totals. In other words, the President's strongest opponent in the General Election would be his Vice President. Wondering what else to do with the office besides fill it with the loser, the Framers threw out a bone--make the VP the President of the Senate. Otherwise, framer Roger Sherman of Connecticut said, "he would be without employment."

Fast-forward 15 years after ratification, and Twelfth Amendment allows for the President and Vice President to be of the same party, as a ticket. This removes the somewhat trivial check against Executive power that existed in the form of an adversarial leader in one house of the Legislative Branch. What this all means is that the Office of the Vice President of the United States has a muddled definition. On one hand, the VP is a member of Executive Branch, ready to have the full power of the Presidency conferred to him or her via succession. (See Amendments XII, XX, and XXV, as well as the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 3 U.S.C. § 19) On the other hand, the Vice President acts in a legislative capacity, even casting the tie-breaking vote in the very important US Senate.

Until Cheney, the fuzzy ground occupied by the VP between these two branches of government was largely ignored. Harry Truman came into the Presidency without having been briefed on some of our most important strategic aims--and that was during a war of some import. LBJ and Kennedy weren't known to be best friends, and Gerald Ford--well we know how he got the job. But only when Reagan's brain started taking an early retirement in the first years of his two terms was the VP's importance even vaguely realized. At that time, the VP was most assuredly running many covert programs for the administration, and it seems likely that the boss didn't even really know about them.

Cheney was right there at the time, studying and learning. "Aha!" he must have thought, "The VP wears two hats, and this means that he can avoid accountability." So in 1999 and 2000, W went ahead with Cheney's plan. They acted as if Cheney was looking for a running mate for the GOP candidate, when all along, the intent had been to find a Presidential candidate malleable enough for soon-to-be VP Cheney. They got their stooge in W, and the rest is just so much sad history.

Now when the pressure is on, Cheney can alternately claim exective priviledge and executive exemption from the law of the land. Clever, deceitful, brilliant, and disgusting all at once. The saddest part is, there isn't any really good case law, that I am aware of, to counter his claims. By the time this plows through the Supreme Court, with all of the obfuscation and misdirection that crew can muster, we're going to be even more fucked than we are now. I know that is a mighty big claim, but these guys have yet to disappoint on the fucked-up scale.

[krispos42]

145. A very concise summary. Thank you.

Having said that...

Cheney is a fuckwad.

[Warren Stupidity]

150. Despite his role as tie breaker in the senate

the vice president has always been and is clearly defined in the constitution as part of the executive. Feel free to post any credible link that documents support for your claim that the role of president of the senate makes the vice president part of the legislative branch of government.


For example:
President Bush's Cabinet


The tradition of the Cabinet dates back to the beginnings of the Presidency itself. One of the principal purposes of the Cabinet (drawn from Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution) is to advise the President on any subject he may require relating to the duties of their respective offices.

The Cabinet includes the Vice President and the heads of 15 executive departments-the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, and the Attorney General. Under President George W. Bush, Cabinet-level rank also has been accorded to the Administrator, Environmental Protection Agency; Director, Office of Management and Budget; the Director, National Drug Control Policy; and the U.S. Trade Representative.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html


Federal Executive Branch
Official information and services from the U.S. government.

On This Page
Executive Office of the President
Executive Departments
Independent Agencies and Government Corporations
Boards, Commissions and Committees
Quasi-Official Agencies
Learn More About the Executive Branch




Executive Office of the President
The President
The Vice President
The White House Home Page
Offices within the Executive Office of the President
The President's Cabinet
http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/Executive.shtml


What is this? http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/
Odd that I do not find the Speaker of the House's office linked at www.whitehouse.gov.


Really, do post your supporting evidence that the vice president of the united states is not part of the executive branch.

[The Count]

76. Actually, it never did in the normal reality either! But I like the irony.

[cassiepriam]

106. Duh, Then he is part of the exec branch. They make this crap up as they go.

[blondeatlast]

117. Touche'! nt

[Beelzebud]

2. Does that mean Dick can go back to Montana now and end his reign of terror?

You know. Since he's not really in the executive branch anymore.

[havocmom]

7. Wyoming, if you please!

We don't claim him here in Montana.

[Beelzebud]

9. I hereby personally apologize to EVERY citizen of Montana.

I am truely sorry for placing this madman on your feet. It was an oversight, and it WILL not happen again.

You are a truly patient and kind person. If someone said that terrorist freak was from my state, those would be fighting words. :D

[havocmom]

26. Well, we DO have to claim Cheney & ENRON enabler Marc Racicot

But he spend the $$ and left MT for the bright lights..... We have a great DEM gov now!

You are forgiven.

DO NOT let it happen again! ;)

Edited to add pic of Brian Schweitzer and MT First Dog, Jag, in Butte for St Pat's Day Celebration

[TwilightGardener]

18. We don't claim him here in Nebraska, either. Even though he's from here.

There's an "Old Cheney Road" in Lincoln. Any relation to old Cheney?

[progressoid]

72. I've met some people from Wyoming that don't want him either. n/t

[MilesColtrane]

83. The undead never rest.

He's got a lot more damage to do.

[Radio_Lady]

84. Terrifying photo montage! Thanks for posting it.

[riona]

148. Must be a 4th branch of gov't

The Talking Heads

[aquart]

4. He's not an executive, he's an emperor. Get it right.

[Harry Monroe]

53. The "Evil" Emperor

[corkhead]

5. No, it's a fucking Halliburton subsidiary.

[Kurovski]

40. Or perhaps Mr. Cheney considers it to be his own personal plaything?

"Darth Vader Star Destroyer. This is where Lord Vader communicates with the Dark Side of the Force. Activate the Force Light in the meditation chamber and Darth strenghtens his dark powers...There's a simulated hologram unit to communicate with the Grand Emperor. Push-button escape hatch. Detention pegs to hang any captured rebels upside down, a control room, an assembly area for Bounty Hunters.

Maybe a little of both? :shrug:

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=39648

Description:
"I know a lot of people love it, but, in my opinion, the Darth Vader's Star Destroyer playset was the most disappointing of all Kenner Star Wars toys."

[Mnpaul]

101. But isn't the whole Whitehouse?

[liberal N proud]

6. Since the regime doesn't follow the Constitution

They can do this sort of thing.

This is bu$h's government!

Still no talk of impeachment.:grr:

[mmonk]

10. And just who is buying that?

Just because the current OVP operates a shadow government contrary to to the constitution doesn't change it's status in the three branches of government.

[underpants]

11. That confuses me

I'll admit it I can't follow along with that

The VICE Presidency isn't a part of the Exec branch? What is it part of the Legislature (President of the Senate)??? How does that give him an out?? Wouldn't that separate him from exec privilege??? or are they so wound up that they don't know which way is down?

[Richard Steele]

14. His logic is : The VP's office isn't part of ANYTHING....

So, therefore, NO LAWS apply to it whatsoever.

[underpants]

33. WE ARE COMPOSED OF BEAMS OF LASER LIGHT DO NOT TOUCH US!!

something like that I suspect.

:wow:

[Warren DeMontague]

47. If it's not part of anything, why does he still get a check? nt

[The Wielding Truth]

58. Vice-President? Vice meaning criminal. Still part of X-branch!

vice < vīss > (plural vic·es)


noun

Definition: http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/vice.html

1. immoral habit: an immoral or wicked habit or characteristic
Lying is the least of her vices.


2. depravity: immoral conduct


3. prostitution, gambling, and drugs: criminal activity connected with prostitution and other sexual offenses, gambling, and illegal drugs ( often used before a noun )

[librechik]

82. even the laws of physiucs don't apply

what crazy fucking bastards that Cheney gang is. They think they can overthrow the United States Government in secret, just by holding their breath and telling outrageous tales!

+OMG!~!!!

[Bucky]

17. It's the "say anything" principle. Logic doesn't matter if your intent is to back-rationalize

You ever argue with a teenager? They'll say anything to weasel out of trouble; logic is no impediment to making an argument. The point is to keep you too flustered to keep from carrying out the consequences of whatever trouble they've gotten into.

The same tactic comes from Republicans. They don't care if they appear unreasonable just so long as they keep moving away from the reality checks.

[mopinko]

23. the less logical, the better.

causes so much more flustration.

[underpants]

35. Oh I see

as I posted below

Snow:"It's not"
Reporter:"It's not what?"
Snow:"Look we've already covered this"
:shrug::spray:

[The Backlash Cometh]

50. Actually, this is what Snow really said, and what he thought he heard:

Snow: "It's snot."
Reporter: "It's snot? What?"
Snow: "Look, we're covered in this."

[pnorman]

125. The term: "The Sultan of Snot" just entered my mind.

I'm not a "baseball guy", but I well recall the appellation of "The Sultan of Swat" as applying to Babe
Ruth. So who deserves this label? Perhaps Bill-O!

pnorman

[redqueen]

56. ...

:crazy:

[unc70]

86. Some people think nasal humor is funny; some think it's not. N/T

[Bucky]

12. His dick is big, but his balls are ENORMOUS

If he's part of Congress, then it takes only a majority vote to refuse to seat him.

[Solly Mack]

13. snort

fucker needs to make up his mind...course he'll have another convoluted lie to explain this away too.

[Solly Mack]

15. this post needs more recommendations

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. This is Just Too Good! Recommended!!!!!

:rofl:

[demnan]

19. If this isn't grounds for impeachment

I don't know what is. Support HR 333!

[Mandate My Ass]

21. Hubris on this scale used to have dire consequences in Greek tragedies

Oh please let life imitate art. He's batshit crazy to be talking like that, so if Congress won't impeach him for his multiple crimes, please impeach him for being a barking-at-the-moon lunatic.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Paving the way for "The President's Office is not part of the Executive Branch, either..."

Why stop at ONE egregious lie? Might as well go for broke!

[underpants]

31. Snow:"It's not" Reporter:"It's not what?" Snow:"Look we've already covered this"

:wow:

[TwilightGardener]

39. LOL! "Who's on first?" Another deft maneuver from Snowjob!

[Canuckistanian]

25. Excellent point by Waxman

Considering the Plame leak, bullshit "intelligence" for the war that bypassed official channels and the VP's hyper-politicization of EVERYTHING, national security is in danger.

Revoke his security clearance immediately and start impeachment proceedings.

[MiniMe]

37. Not to mention the "Top Secret" Energy committee

That we aren't even allowed to know the members of.

[mod mom]

59. With Cheney's warped reality, the national security is in danger!

Call in the Federal Marshals

[Kokonoe]

27. Is this a vice presidential executive order.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[MNDemNY]

28. Yes but the "signing statement" attached

to the 2002 corn subsidy bill states that "The office of the President and Vice President are subject to no laws whatsoever. Unless we want to be."After that is added in * own handwriting,"neener, neener, neener.

[Roland99]

29. Then what the hell branch *is* it a part of?!?! Only 3 and he's not in Congress nor wearing a robe!

[OregonBlue]

34. Vice King? Waxman HAS to make him state just which one he thinks he's part of.

When did the Vice President's office become an entity unto itself? Go get him Waxman!!!!!!!!!!

[Deep13]

78. During the Washington Administration, the V.P. office was seen as legislative.

As long as the POTUS was alive and kicking, the VP's only duty was to preside over the Senate. Since the VP was the P's chief election rival in those days, he was not seen as part of the administration. Of course this view overlooks two things. The Senate back then disliked V.P. Adams so much that by rule they excluded the VP from active participation in Senate business. Also, Article II of the Constitution specifically puts the VP office in the executive branch. Of course, the P & VP are "elected" together now.

[hootinholler]

32. Too cool fer school! No executive privlege, The may not be allowed to receive classified info...

Where is the authorization for the VP to receive classified information that doesn't come from the President?

-Hoot

[TwilightGardener]

42. Yeahhhh...WAIT a minute...good point!

Can we nail him for illegally obtaining classified info, if by his own words he doesn't qualify to receive it?

[Divine Discontent]

109. maybe then he should be charged, huh?

not sure how that'd fly, but damn, if that's his argument, nail the bastard.


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[MiniMe]

36. Um, is he part of the government? It says the order was government-wide

procedures. It seems to me that declaring himself not a part of the government would be going too far.

[Land Shark]

41. For classification purposes, Cheney is in the Secret Shadow Government n/t

[Theduckno2]

88. Cheney is the leader of the Secret Shadow Government.

It governs over "a wondrous land, whose boundaries are that of imagination. That is the sign post up ahead. Your next stop, the Twilight-Zone". Thank you Mr. Serling.

A land where people are free to speak their minds in secret group meetings.

A peace loving land where we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

A land that reserves the right to defend itself against all potential threats and yet feels threatened when others would seek to enhance their security. (except if they purchase their weapons from U.S. contractors)

Yes, Cheney will lead us into the twilight of the United States of America.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. The whole make-up-shit-on-the-fly bit is getting old

They've been doing it since Bush V. Gore.

The law is supposed to mean things.

[RestoreGore]

44. HIS office?Tell me again why he is still in OUR office?

Why the hell are we putting up with this insolence?

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. You are fucking kidding me! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Tomorrow's news: Dick Cheney gains ten pounds and declares himself the 51st state in the country. The new state is now called, New Cheneyton.

Next week's news: New Cheneyton, the just newly added state in the nation, secedes from the union, citing irreconcilable differences with the U.S. Constitution. Dick Cheney declared himself the first president of New Cheneyton and stated that the U.S. Constitution interfered with his inalienable rights to own everything in sight. The Democratic Congress sent their apologies, and one billion dollars in aid to the newly formed nation.

News two weeks from now: American children continue to fail the grade in standardized tests. For example, when asked, few if any children are able to point out New Cheneyton on the map. In fact, more children are hyperventilating and puking during the test since the question was added to the exam. Fighting back tears, Joseph Nettle, a third grader from Phoenix Arizona said that the tests are culturally biased. He said that he knew that New Cheneyton's main export is oil, but that when he was asked to draw the boundaries of the new country, it was impossible because, "It's an oily bugger that keeps changing shape," he said, "I just know it has a black heartland and it hides in a undisclosed chamber, but nobody really knows where."

[Maeve]

46. I think EarlG just got his #1 Idiot for next week eom

[TahitiNut]

134. That's a lock! The only question is whether he gets #2 and #3 as well.

Just one place isn't enough to contain the enormity of this sociopath's chutzpah.

[sinkingfeeling]

49. Is this his 'out' for the Plame affair and how Libby knew she was CIA?

[RoccoR5955]

51. WTF does he think he is anyway?!?!?

Man!
Let's tar and feather these guys and run them out of our country on a rail already!
They surely deserve it!

The reason that these things got to run the country, is because so many people felt that it was good to have someone run the government, who feels that government is not a good thing.
That's like having an Amish person fix your car. No offense to the Amish.
That's like having a vegetarian cook you a hamburger. No offense to vegetarians.

[Jack Rabbit]

52. Impeach. Indict. Imprison.

Any suggestions I have beyond that will have Agent Mike at my doorstep.

[lonestarnot]

61. Yes! What jack the wabbit said!

:applause:

[The Wizard]

97. and Inject (nt)

[Harry Monroe]

55. Maybe this means he is immune from impeachment...

...but it opens up the possibility that he is now subject to criminal prosecution while still holding office!! Hot Damn. Let the indictments begin!!

[Jack Rabbit]

94. Show me where in the Constitution either the President or Vice President is immune from prosecution

Members of Congress are while Congress in in session. That is a checks and balances matter. It prevents the tyrannical president from harassing congresscritters he doesn't like with phoney or trivial charges.

If the President's own DoJ wants to indict and prosecute the President or Vice President, there is nothing to prevent it. They are both entitled to due process of law, just like you or me or the wino on Skid Row or the Terror suspect in Gitmo.

[redqueen]

57. Another strongly-worded letter?

Ay caramba.

[Contrary1]

60. Just sent an email to Olbermann...

If nothing else, more people will hear about it.

[Betsy Ross]

62. This makes my brain hurt.

I just cannot imagine how they came up with this. And I too think this wipes out executive priviledge. Can we now go back and ask for the names of the advisors on energy matters? How about Valerie Plame? There are so many things we could ask Darth.

[Tom Joad]

64. Remember, impeaching Cheney is OFF the Table. Funding Cheney's war is

always on the table.

[spindrifter]

66. What are they smoking over there? Oh, now

I get it--Nixon signed an addendum to the Constitution as his last officious act: it created a FOURTH branch of government to be opened when the people could be fooled most of the time.

[tmlanders]

67. This really isn't complicated at all!

If law protects Cheney -- he will follow it.
If law is bad for Cheney -- he won't follow it.

Kinda like the preznit, 'cept without all those messy signing statements.

[ejbr]

68. They don' thunk dis one up with dat dare unitary executive thingymabob. n/t

[Bravo Zulu]

69. dickhead cheney is not part of the human race!

[proud patriot]

70. can't have it both ways DICK

:think:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

73. Ya' know, if he's taking such a ridiculous position, maybe, no immunity covers his ass!!!

I mean, he's trying to get out of being in a position of accountability as a unit of government. He's like,...a sovereignty unto himself,...or, like, a corporation that will do ANYTHING to avoid (IOW BREAK) U.S. law.

I say, if he's arguing himself independent of government, TREAT HIM LIKE HE IS INDEPENDENT OF GOVERNMENT: charge, indict and convict the heart-less SOB!!

:bounce:

[bdamomma]

158. exactly, his a$$ needs to be thrown on the assumption of BS.

total BS. He ran from shooting his friend and now he wants to run away from us, no he can't have it both ways.

hey proud patriot:hi:

[paparush]

71. Cheney: Open Mouth - Insert Subpoena

[Cleita]

74. It seems these days the offices of the President and Vice President

are part of the new King Department.

[sbyte]

77. Top four Reasons not to comply. "My way or the Highway"

"I ate beans for breakfast so stay out of my office."

OR " Don't push me on this, Trust me, You don't want to know. "

3. " If I had to stop and provide information to every bureaucrat that comes to my office I wouldn't get anything accomplished, go away, you bother me. "

4. " I could give you the information but then I'd have to kill you. "

[DemSoccerMom]

79. This report confirms my suspicions that Cheney is an ass-monkey. n/t

[acmavm]

81. Why does this mechanical hearted bastard get to make up the rules

as he goes along?

[Daphne08]

89. CNN just reported this. n/t

[rodeodance]

136. good

[Supersedeas]

90. And from the GOP/Media Establishment....the sound of crickets

[Zhade]

91. And yet still no criminal proceedings against the most corrupt administration in U.S. history.

NT!

[HowHasItComeToThis]

92. Has Cheney registered as a Foriegn Agent working for the Saudi's yet?

THIS MAN IS A LOOSE CANNON

[laylah]

93. What an arrogant

POS...IMPEACH NOW. Well, one can hope that Congress will put SOMETHING along these lines "on the table" at last! Their powder is so freakin' dry, it may disintigrate before this is all over with!

[sellitman]

95. Chutzpah man.

I just renamed him.

Perfect!

[Kurovski]

122. "Mother Fucker Man" conveys less charm, and so seems more accurate.

[rodeodance]

96. Fact Sheet on the Vice President's Efforts to Avoid Oversight and Accountability

more at:
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371

Documents and Links

* Chairman Waxman's Letter to the Vice President
* Letter from National Archives to the Attorney General
* Second Letter from National Archives to the Vice President's Office
* First Letter from National Archives to the Vice President's Office
* Fact Sheet on the Vice President's Efforts to Avoid Oversight and Accountability

[Disturbed]

102. It is time for Waxman and the rest of the House to sign on to

the Kucinich move for the VP's Impeachment!

[NewJeffCT]

99. Doesn't that go against their whole "unitary executive" ideal?

I mean, I thought the premise of that is that everything in the federal government that is not part of Congress or the Courts is part of the presidency?

[DS1]

100. Therefore he can't claim Executive Privs and deny access to his energy meeting visitor logs

duh!

Which reporter will DARE question that?

[rucky]

103. Chickenshit! n/t

[spanone]

104. oh dick, go fuck yourself.

:hurts: :hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts::hurts:

[whistle]

107. What does the U.S. Constitution have to say about that?

[Divine Discontent]

108. Letter I wrote to the Editor and Senator.

Out. Of. Control.

The United States fought a civil war when some of the states, seeking greater autonomy and the right to use slaves, rebelled and forced the states of the northern U.S. to take action.

Now we have the Vice President of the United States of America doing some 'succession' of his own it seems. Mr. Cheney informed the National Archives that the VP office is NOT part of the Executive Branch and therefore not required to keep from releasing classified information. Dick had the comical, yet dangerous, gravitas to say this even though he's a heartbeat away from the presidency. More disturbingly, his office has access to thousands of classified documents and knowledge that in the wrong hands could out secret operatives (cough), write energy policy & secure military contracts that give billions of tax dollars to corporations (cough), and lead to an instability of our government's influence worldwide (cough). Sorry, I've got to check out that cough.

Seems as though Mr. Cheney feels his office should not be included in the law that President Bush signed in 2003 that demanded strict protection of classified documents. He believes the office with the most direct contact with the president is somehow not required by law to keep from breaking said law!

Sounds to me like someone is running his own shadow government. Sounds to me like someone is saying he is above the law. Sounds to me like someone needs to be impeached out of his office.


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- top 08 items!

[Major Hogwash]

110. So, Cheney is re-writing the Constitution, all by hisself.

Cheney's a rat, caught in a box, running from corner to corner of the box, but he can't get out.

[rodeodance]

135. all by hisass!

[barbtries]

111. they blow me away

constantly. unbelievable how slimy and skanky and damn evil this vice president is. somehow he must be stopped...

edited to add: this IS the same guy who claimed the power to classify and declassify documents at will, right? this is such friggin bullshit.

at work can't continue

[dansolo]

112. Didn't he also claim that the VP had the authority to declassify information

Wasn't that one of his many excuses during the whole Plame affair, that he had the authority to declassify her status? How can he claim this, and not consider himself part of the executive branch?

[ozymandius]

114. He did! It's a matter of public record and thus admissible in any trial.

"Vice President Dick Cheney said Wednesday that an executive order gives him the authority to declassify secret documents..."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney.classified/index.html

[me b zola]

113. Is it a constitutional crisis yet?

How many small bits of paper does this illegal administration need to shred the constitution before the msm & pundits sound the alarm?

[BrainGlutton]

115. I note that Cheney is asserting he is not in the Executive . . .

. . . only "for purposes of securing classified information." If a Congressional committee asks him to testify about something he would rather not discuss, he will, of course, invoke "executive privilege" in a heartbeat (or its equivalent in Cheney's anatomy). Yet another instance of this Admin trying to have it both ways -- like Guantanamo Bay, which is held to be outside U.S. territory for legal and constitutional purposes even though the U.S. controls it.

[Coexist]

116. why am I not surprised.

ugh.

[BrainGlutton]

118. One thing is not clear to me . . .

Why would Cheney not WANT to comply with the presidential directive in question?

[neuvocat]

119. He's gone insane, maybe?

He must really think that he'll be better off without the benefit of executive priviledge.

[peaches2003]

120. Does anyone but us care?

This will go over the heads of a huge% of the country (all except us), the press will say nothing, and that will be the end of it. Our Constitution is shredded, no one realle ever confronts Bush or Cheney and they just go on their merry way. I have lost all hope and wonder what this country will be like by Nov 2008. You get the government you deserve. Who said that?

[tridim]

126. The Press, AKA Keith Olbermann is about to cover it

Tune in quick.

[WinkyDink]

121. Then which branch DOES it belong to? VP makes no laws and judges no cases.

[librechik]

128. he's trying to create a new, extralegal branch of govt, where he makes the rules

yeah, since he invented it.

WE need to get rid of that lunatic David Addington, who is fomenting all this, just to feel the power.

[katty]

124. CHENEY EXEMPTS HIMSELF FROM ALL LAWS - PERIOD!

[Festivito]

129. Then.... whoever told him is ALSO guilty? ...........Hmmmmm..........

[LonelyLRLiberal]

130. WTF!!!!!

Every day there is a new atrocity of pure arrogance. I don't get how the President gets to set standards for protecting classified information, anyway. Wouldn't Congress pass laws? Oh, yeah, I forgot, this is the Bush Regime.

[rodeodance]

131. White House official web site says Vice-President is part of the Cabinet ...

Go back to previous topic
Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject White House official web site says Vice-President is part of the Cabinet ...
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3332166#3332166
3332166, White House official web site says Vice-President is part of the Cabinet ...
Posted by BattyDem on Thu Jun-21-07 07:47 PM

which makes it part of the Executive Branch.

President Bush's Cabinet

The tradition of the Cabinet dates back to the beginnings of the Presidency itself. One of the principal purposes of the Cabinet (drawn from Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution) is to advise the President on any subject he may require relating to the duties of their respective offices.

The Cabinet includes the Vice President and the heads of 15 executive departments.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html


Scroll down the page and you''ll even see a picture of one of the Cabinet Rank Members: The Vice President, Richard B. Cheney

[npincus]

132. ..then there goes EXECUTIVE Privilege!!!

Fickin' Dumbass!!! :rofl:

[rodeodance]

133. Government 101 for Dick Cheney (countdown)

http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/21/232596.aspx

Government 101 for Dick Cheney
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:38 PM by Countdown


From Talking Points Memo...

Rahm Emanuel's office just sent out a nifty chart illustrating Veep Cheney's latest. As you may have heard by now, Cheney reportedly exempted his own office from the presidential order establishing government-wide procedures for the guarding of classified national security info. He reportedly did this by asserting that his office is not an “entity within the executive branch.”

[PuppyBismark]

137. But, the energy task force names are withheld by Executive Privilege?

Ok, as usual Cheney wants it both ways. He is not part of the EOP, executive office of the president, but the names of those who meet with him are subject to EOP executive privilege?

So, can we use his logic to say that as a member of the legislative branch he is subject to all rules of disclosure of classified information. What would happen if a senator or his/her staff leaked a classified document? Seems that may be against the law..

:dilemma: :dilemma: :dilemma:

[Golden Raisin]

138. Has any democratic candidate or bigwig

even commented publicly on this? Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, Obama, Biden, anyone, etc.? I guess it is too much to hope that they ALL might join forces and start screaming at the top of their lungs about this? About what an outrage it is. About what utter and unacceptable bullshit it is. About what kind of balls Cheney has. Sadly, nothing will be said or done. All dusted under the same poor, rickety table that impeachment is off of.

[tavalon]

139. I enjoy trying to figure out who the number one conservative idiot will be each week

No fun this week. Too damn easy.

[rpannier]

142. It's part of the what???

The legislative? The judiciary?

All 3???

The vice-executive branch maybe?

A tree branch??

[JDPriestly]

143. What does the Constitution say about the office of Vice President?

Article I Section 3. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.
....
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided.

The Senate shall choose their other officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the office of President of the United States.

The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.

///

My comment: Could it be that Cheney fears an impeachment is a real possibility, and he wants to reside over it. Note that he is not a senator.

///

Article II Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

. . .

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
. . . .
Amendment XX

Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

Section 2. The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.

Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Section 4. The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.
. . . .
Amendment XII

The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
. . . .
Amendment XXV

Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
///
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

The Constitution provides for three branches of government, the executive, the legislative and the judicial branches. Clearly, the VP is not a member of the Senate (or the House} and therefore cannot be a member of the legislature. Nor is he/she a member of the judiciary. He/she is, therefore, equally clearly a member of the executive branch. The power of the executive is vested in the president, not in the vice president, however, the vice president may become the Acting President if the president is unable to exercise his duties. I'd be curious how Cheney defines his position in terms of the three branches of government and what arguments or theories he plans to bring to support his position on this. This is just so Cheney -- so wildly out there -- so flagrantly overconfident. He and Bush are a pair. It is not to be believed.

[jberryhill]

152. While not referring to "branches"...

The Constitution provides for three branches of government, the executive, the legislative and the judicial branches.

While not referring directly to "branches", the federal government is laid out in three Articles.

Article I - the legislature
Article II - the executive
Article III - the judiciary

The office of "Vice President" is introduced in Article I, and is only given the effective power of President of the Senate in that article.

The stuff relating to succession is only operative upon removal of the President, and also includes other legislative officers in the line of succession. Otherwise the President Pro Tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House would be "executive officers" under that set of reasoning.

I guess the better way of putting the question is, under the Constitution what _power_ is the Vice President given under Article II?

[JDPriestly]

161. The Constitution provided for the election of the Vice President

by the electoral college:

Article II, Section 1 . . . .
The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleii.html

My comment: The replacement of the Vice President is handled as is the replacement of the other executive officer, the president.

(Article II, section 1) In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

My comment: Finally, and perhaps most important, the means by which the Vice President may be removed from office is also set forth in Article I, and the Vice President is classed with the President in this important provision.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Article I

Section 1. All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2. The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states, and the electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature.

Cheney is chosen in the manner of a member of the executive branch and may be removed in the manner of a member of the executive branch. He is neither a senator nor a representative and therefore not a member of the legislative branch. The Constitution provides that he sits as the President of the Senate. That does not make him a member of either House or of the legislative branch any more than the following language in Article II:

Section 3. He (the president) shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; . . . .

My analysis is that the vice president is strictly a member of the executive branch. I think he will have a hard time putting much of an argument to the contrary together. But then, after Bush v. Gore, who knows what the Supreme Court might decide. They just follow their political noses these days it seems.

In Federalist Papers No. 47, James Madison stated:

The reasons on which Montesquieu grounds his maxim are a further demonstration of his meaning. "When the legislative and executive powers are united in the same person or body," says he, "there can be no liberty, because apprehensions may arise lest THE SAME monarch or senate should ENACT tyrannical laws to EXECUTE them in a tyrannical manner. " Again: "Were the power of judging joined with the legislative, the life and liberty of the subject would be exposed to arbitrary control, for THE JUDGE would then be THE LEGISLATOR. Were it joined to the executive power, THE JUDGE might behave with all the violence of AN OPPRESSOR. " Some of these reasons are more fully explained in other passages; but briefly stated as they are here, they sufficiently establish the meaning which we have put on this celebrated maxim of this celebrated author.

From these facts, by which Montesquieu was guided, it may clearly be inferred that, in saying "There can be no liberty where the legislative and executive powers are united in the same person, or body of magistrates," or, "if the power of judging be not separated from the legislative and executive powers," he did not mean that these departments ought to have no PARTIAL AGENCY in, or no CONTROL over, the acts of each other. His meaning, as his own words import, and still more conclusively as illustrated by the example in his eye, can amount to no more than this, that where the WHOLE power of one department is exercised by the same hands which possess the WHOLE power of another department, the fundamental principles of a free constitution are subverted. This would have been the case in the constitution examined by him, if the king, who is the sole executive magistrate, had possessed also the complete legislative power, or the supreme administration of justice; or if the entire legislative body had possessed the supreme judiciary, or the supreme executive authority. This, however, is not among the vices of that constitution. The magistrate in whom the whole executive power resides cannot of himself make a law, though he can put a negative on every law; nor administer justice in person, though he has the appointment of those who do administer it. The judges can exercise no executive prerogative, though they are shoots from the executive stock; nor any legislative function, though they may be advised with by the legislative councils. The entire legislature can perform no judiciary act, though by the joint act of two of its branches the judges may be removed from their offices, and though one of its branches is possessed of the judicial power in the last resort. The entire legislature, again, can exercise no executive prerogative, though one of its branches constitutes the supreme executive magistracy, and another, on the impeachment of a third, can try and condemn all the subordinate officers in the executive department.
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fedindex.htm

My comment: The Federalist Papers indicate that the authors of the Constitution understood and intended that there be three branches of government and that no office would be both legislative and executive.

It is interesting that in Federalist Papers Numbers 48 and 49, Madison expresses the view that the legislative body is the most likely to exceed its powers and become a tyrant. In recent presidencies, however, I believe we have observed a presidency which encroaches more and more on the legislative. Of course that is because of the ever expanding quasi-legislative branches of the executive -- the many, many agencies from the FDA to the SEC. I don't question the need for oversight and government regulation. But, as administrative law recognizes, these agencies have both legislative and executive powers and give the executive the means to wield legislative power not granted to it under the Constitution. Bush is not the only president to have grabbed legislative power through these quasi-legislative departments crated by the legislature but which the legislature has little practical ability to oversee.

The Vice President's claim to belong to both the legislative and the executive branches of government is simply unfounded in my view. Madison would turn over in his grave. To merge he legislative and executive powers in any one person was the very thing the Founding Fathers did everything they could to avoid.

[jberryhill]

162. Without review of any relevant decisions

There's been a lot of water under the bridge. Part of the problem is that the entire structure of presidential and vice presidential elections has gone pretty far afield from the original structure.

The Federalist Papers indicate that the authors of the Constitution understood and intended that there be three branches of government and that no office would be both legislative and executive.

Your points about administrative agencies, which have to a large extent oozed around strict separation, are well taken. I would like to see some of the relevant agency oversight committees in Congress become more aggressive in exercising their joint control over administrative agencies.

I'd also like to see the DoJ spun off as a fourth branch.

Some blending of functions is inevitable, but I agree that erosion of the doctrine of Separation of Powers has just gone too far, and that Cheney's announcement here is pretty bizarre.

[bdamomma]

159. they have done this numerous times.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

[w4rma]

144. That's funny. (nt)

[Ganja Ninja]

147. I hope and pray that I will live to see the day that this man is ...

led off to prison in handcuffs.

[mwb970]

151. Prison is WAY too good for this vile beast.

How's that pacemaker working, anyway?

[bdamomma]

160. yea, that pacemaker must be on overload now.

[Hubert Flottz]

149. Secession?

Isn't Dick Cheney in rebellion against the US Constitution and the rule of law?

[happygoluckytoyou]

153. TONY SNOW HERE...

This is really good news, and here is why. When we win, the terrorists lose. The big DICK is not part of the legislative, executive, nor judicial part of the government. He is worthy of his own zip code, and is a member of the imperial fourth of the government. As we now have 4 branches, we are stronger, more robust, 33% larger than jumbo size and more capable of crushing terrorism. He is not a standard DICK, he is a special DICK--- longer, stronger, able to hammer a 6" nail through a two-by-four, a real tool of the administration, the major star on UTOOL.COM.

The DICK is father of our country and father of the NATIONAL CREATION MUSEUM STAR, Mary Cheney--- (see her exhibit in the Immasculane Conception Room, next to the "I may be gay but I'm no lesbian" Room. As you see, people in the Cheney family dance to a different drummer, make their own rules. There are times he signs a signing statement without moving his lips.

So, ladies and gentlemen, as you can trust me, Tony "the snowjob" Snow-- mouthpiece of the Bushpranos, a free and independant DICK without the condoms of everyday life and law restricting his terror-suppressing ways is good for america-- and the terrorists lose.

Thank you for listening, thank you for caring, thank you for believing.

I am Tony Snow, so believe me.

I love america
I love god
I love the president and vice president
I love lamp

[KoKo]

157. That's an Excellent RANT!

:D

[bdamomma]

154. can someone throw his a$$ out now??? apparently he thinks

is above the law or as some say is the law, this is total BS, throw his a$$ out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1776Forever]

155. What's new? He never did take his oath of office for real!

Crossing the Rubicon
Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney

by
Michael Kane

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml