Reminder: Joe Lieberman is Not a "Democrat". He's "Independent".

[David Zephyr]

Lieberman lost the Democratic primary in his own state. His "independent" candidacy was supported by the GOP and Karl Rove.

Lieberman has declared that he might endorse a Republican for President in 2008. Even Ralph Nader hasn't done that and he gets savaged here.

Joe Lieberman left the Democratic Party in 2006.

Headline: He's not a Democrat anymore.

[Name removed]

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[David Zephyr]

5. That sort of lousy comment is why Joe gets a pass many times.

I hoped this thread would be about Joe's politics. Listen, he is an American.

Now I wind up defending him. Jeeez!

[BurtWorm]

8. Don't you hate that?!

It happens to me almost everytime I start a Lieberman thread lately. :grr:

[David Zephyr]

19. Yes, and thank you for weighing in, BurtWorm.

It drives me nuts!

[WiseButAngrySara]

Go educate yourself. Google JoMo with AIPAC and JINSA ...

http://www.google.com/search?q=lieberman+aipac&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&q=lieberman+jinsa

[BurtWorm]

14. Your statement is the equivalent of "Go back to Africa" or "Go back to Russia"

Worse, it changes the subject.

Lieberman is undoubtedly "pro-Israel." So is Giuliani. You want Giuliani to "go back to Israel?"

[Mark_Pogue]

15. EXACTLY

and now trying to shift blame elsewhere.

[Name removed]

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[Mark_Pogue]

22. I wish you would have mentioned the "right to return"

in your first reply. That way, I wouldn't be kicking myself.

[BurtWorm]

There's a way to speak about those issues without sounding like an anti-Semite.

Or do you think sounding like an anti-Semite ought to be acceptable on DU?

[Mark_Pogue]

27. It threw me off..

way off!!

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

30. Your language sounds anti-Semitic, just as "go back to Africa" sounds racist.

Loads of people, Jews and non-Jews, can talk honestly about Israel without sounding anti-Semitic. Tariq Ali, for one, whose analysis of the Israel problem I totally agree with.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Jews can be anti-Semitic, too.

It doesn't matter what religion someone is or isn't, anyone can be anti-Semitic or spew anti-Semitic filth, such as the age old "Jews are more loyal to each other or, in modern days, Israel."

[David Zephyr]

33. True.

Behind the Aegis, thanks for weighing in. BurtWorm expressed my feeling perfectly.

Lieberman drives me crazy. And whenever one tries to post here about him, and my point today is that he is not a Democrat anymore, it brings out all this other crap and dark postings... and then I wind up defending him and that takes me from crazy to certifiable. You can bring the thorazine over now and administer it to me. And I'll need a double dose.

Fortunately, Joe's moment in the sun with his swing vote (the caucus issue in the Senate) will be short-lived. The Democrats will gain more seats in 2008 and he knows it which is why he will not bolt from caucusing with the Democrats because he'd lose his committee positions of power in 2009 and Joe won't give that up.

Joe can bolt from the Democrats now and be a darling of the GOP for 18 months and then become completely irrelevant in 2009 or he can stay with the Dems and enjoy some power. Either way, his role will be diminished. With the GOP, he will lose everything. With the Democrats, he will lose some of his bluster.

Basically, he can choose limited importance or complete impotence.

[Name removed]

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[Behind the Aegis]

39. Which Lieberman does not.

He is not a citizen of Israel, never has been. His parents weren't citizens of Israel. Lieberman supports the same policies as many Republicans, thus the OP's public service announcement. He supports those policies because he thinks, like those other supporters, it is best for AMERICA. You and others like you have never provided ONE shred of evidence that the rationale behind Lieberman's policy choices are Israel!

What you did is spew classic anti-Semitism. You told another poster to do some research, I suggest you do the same!

[WiseButAngrySara]

41. I love these anti-semitic comments on DU against a jew. ....n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

42. The only one made was by you against Lieberman! n/t

[barb162]

63. And which post (s) are you referencing?

[WiseButAngrySara]

45. and lets just follow the money, shall we? How much does the US

taxpayer contribute to Israel? 3-4 million dollars per day since 1949. How much money have the Palestinians received? You want to talk now about the money that supported and elected Lieberman? You want to talk about all of the foundations for Israel based in the US that go directly to the aid of Israel, in addition to the money we already pay her? (There is a foundation for a family member of mine that goes directly to the support of Israel; I know about these hidden funds.)

Are you Jewish? I am. So don't you ever label me as a "classic anti-Semite". I never said LIEberman was a citizen of Israel; just that that is where his and obviously YOUR major allegiences are, and to me, that is home!

[Behind the Aegis]

46. You need to learn to read and research better.

The US has NOT been supporting Israel since 1949! There are ANY number of groups that are in the US that support other countries; it is NOT uncommon.

I am Jewish, which makes your spewing anti-Semitism that much more offensive! I didn't "label" you a "classic anti-Semite!" I said and will say AGAIN, you spewed CLASSIC ANTI-SEMITISM!

And do not presume to know where my allegiances lie, because now you are trying to spew your anti-Semitic rhetoric at me!

[Name removed]

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[LeftishBrit]

47. So anyone who disagrees with you has allegiance to Israel?

This is what it's beginning to sound like!

[Name removed]

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[LeftishBrit]

51. I've just been doing exactly that with regard to your googling

See my comment below!

[WiseButAngrySara]

53. Hey 'leftISH' See my comment below! The media feeds us 'green cheese'!

[Jim Sagle]

59. Go back to Stormfront.

Mods, please shitcan this piece of filth.

[barb162]

61. That's utter BS. Got any mainstream links to prove that rubbish?

[LeftishBrit]

36. No, being opposed to Israel's policy doesn't make you anti-semitic.

But accusing Jewish politicians of dual loyalty, and telling them to 'go back to Israel' when they don't come from Israel, is anti-semitic.

Just as it is fine to be against certain Islamic governments and organizations, but not to tell British- or American-born Moslems to 'go back where you came from', or to automatically suspect them of disloyalty or terrorism.

Lieberman is a Bush-loving Republican-in-disguise warmonger and should go back to where he came from: CONNECTICUT.

[BlooInBloo]

35. Yah, but that's what white folks truly think - why hide it from the credulous one-bad-apple theorist

[T Wolf]

16. WiseButAngrySara is correct, in that all Jewish people have the "right of return"

to Israel and to many, it is "going home" to the ancient land (area).

So, it is not really an anti-Semitic remark. Add in the politics of the traitor and it is a legitimate criticism - exactly where do his true loyalties lay (or is it lie)?

[BurtWorm]

24. How do you know how the remark was intended?

:shrug:

[LeftishBrit]

44. 'Right of return' doesn't make you an automatic citizen

It means that IF you choose to renounce your existing citizenship and go through immigration procedures, you have the right to emigrate to Israel. The reason is ultimately that if Jews need to become refugees from persecution, they should have one place where they can get the right to asylum without question. There are, I believe, a few other countries that also give a similar right of return.

In any case, just because you have a right to emigrate to another country, does not mean that you really belong to that country.

Telling Lieberman to 'go back to Israel' sounds like telling Powell or Rice to 'go back to Africa' or Giuliani to 'go back to Italy' or Gonzalez to 'go back to Mexico'; etc. One should not do this with regard to any ethnic group!

[Name removed]

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[Mark_Pogue]

6. He is not from Israel..

he was born in Stamford, CT. Nor were his parents from Israel.

[WiseButAngrySara]

10. See above reposnse. And click on the google. Real easy.

http://www.google.com/search?q=lieberman+aipac&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&q=lieberman+jinsa

[Mark_Pogue]

13. He was born in Stamford, CT...

"Senator. Born Joseph Isador Lieberman on February 24, 1942 in Stamford, Connecticut. Lieberman received his bachelor's degree from Yale College in 1964 and his law degree from Yale Law School in 1967."

http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=9542348

[Name removed]

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[David Zephyr]

32. Thanks.

Everytime I want to get at Joe, it draws out all this other crap...and I wind up defending him. Thanks.

I now know how Aldonza felt "I'm robbed my anger and left with despair" --- Dulcinea from Man of La Mancha.

[LeftishBrit]

50. Easy to click on google; rather less easy to sift out the relevant from the irrelevant!

Most of these items seem to be (a) matter-of-fact reports that JL had spoken at an AIPAC conference (I recently spoke at a conference in Berlin; that doesn't mean that my allegiance is to Berlin); or (b) people expressing personal opinions in forums, including DU; or (c) references to VERY objectionable websites such as Rense and What Really (Never) Happened.

One can put just about any combination of words into google, and probably find something. I could put 'moon green cheese' into google, and find references to people who think that the moon is made of green cheese; that doesn't prove that it is!

[Name removed]

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[Mark_Pogue]

9. Statements like that

are a sure way to increase the Jewish vote..:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

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[T Wolf]

18. I suspect that you, too, have had many discussions with family members

who just do not get the damage that Israel and her politics have done. They can be as "liberal" as anyone, EXCEPT for this one topic.

Inconsistent they are.

Enjoy a peaceful weekend. To all.

[WiseButAngrySara]

25. Yes. Tragically true, but as I see it no more or less blind-sighted

than the very Hitlers and terrorist radical Muslims of the world which in large part stimulated the creation of Israel.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. Democrat or Independent, he's a warmongering jerk.

[katsy]

3. Or, if one prefers....

lieberman is not a Democrat. He's a slug.

}(

[B Calm]

4. I wouldn't call him an independent either. He's always been a con!

[Richardo]

7. What you really hate is that you need him

If he ever decides to caucus with the Republicans, kiss your Democratic Senate goodbye. Cheney returns as the deciding vote and the agenda is up to Boehner.

Sound good to you?

[T Wolf]

17. As if the Dems have an agenda worth supporting... nt

[David Zephyr]

26. Here's another way to look at it, Richardo.

Joe has us over a limb currently, that's true. But, Joe's also smart enough to know that in 2008 our Democratic majority will be increased and the leverage of his single vote will no longer be relevant. The GOP is really exposed in the Senate in 2008 and the odds are way on our side.

So Joe's got until January 2009 to be Mr. All-Powerful Swing Vote and to threaten Harry Reid that he will not caucus with them, but after that (2009) Joe's "importance" will be very diminished.

After that, he can join the GOP if he wants and be part of an even greater minority party and lose his precious committee positions of power. He won't. He knows that the Democrats will increase their majority in 2008 and Joe loves his power more than life itself.

Joe won't bolt. Like all bully's, he's a coward.

[Richardo]

34. That's the most rational analysis I've seen re: Lieberman - thanks David

:patriot:

I appreciate the civil tone, too. :pals:

[David Zephyr]

55. Shucks!

Now I'm embarrassed. ;-)

[BlooInBloo]

12. Fucking shit-for-brains fuckwipe Connecticut electorate.

[greendog]

29. He's the standard bearer for the "Joe Con U" Party. n/t

[Name removed]

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[David Zephyr]

54. Please exit my thread with your insinuations and start your own.

Really!

[BuyingThyme]

43. That's INDEPENDICK.

[Selatius]

56. He's still registered as a Democrat, but he is not representing Democrats.

You cannot kick a person out of the Democratic Party.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Is he really?

I thought after his win, he officially withdrew from the National Democratic Party and basically had "no party," thus being able to call himself "independent." I know he is not representing democrats and one can't be "kicked out" from the Democratic Party, but I really thought he had resigned from the party. If that is the case, then technically he can still be called a democrat. What is the case with Sanders? Do you know?

[Selatius]

58. Party registration papers do not lie. He did not change those papers for a reason.

He is independent in terms of not having the official support of the state Democratic Party as laid down in the primary process, but he is still a registered Democrat. As the bylaws of the party say, a person cannot be stripped of his membership, but membership is not the same as holding the status of nominee of the state party for US Senate or holding several chairmanship positions in the US Senate.

If he had reregistered as a true Independent running as an Independent instead of him being a Democrat running as an Independent, he automatically loses seniority within the national party hierarchy. As a result, he would literally lose all his chairmanship positions in the US Senate to the next ranking Democrat on those respective committees.

This technicality allowed Harry Reid and Joe Lieberman to strike the deal that he can keep his committee chairmanships as a Democrat in return for Joe promising to caucus with the Democrats and thus giving the Senate to the Dems.

Bernie Sanders is different. Unlike Lieberman, he is not registered as a Democrat and cannot hold chairmanship positions within the Democratic hierarchy in the US Senate but like Lieberman, he cannot represent the state Democratic Party. However, that did not stop the Vermont Democratic Party from endorsing his candidacy for US Senate. They did that by purposely listing his name on the primary ballot, which he won handily. Of course, because he is a registered Independent, he declined the nomination, but the maneuver signifies that the Party does not officially sanction any race against Sanders both on the state and national level and that party resources would not be provided to any Democrat who wishes to challenge his seat.

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Thank you for that information.

I didn't know that information. As he "changed" parties, there was so much information out there, I wasn't sure what was what. Thanks for the info on Sanders as well, that really does clear up some issues as far as I am concerned.

[walldude]

62. He created his own party, and is now being asked to resign from it.

This is pretty damn funny. Lieberman being asked to resign from the Connecticut For Lieberman party.. :rofl:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/category/the-senate/joe-lieberman/

[DFW]

64. One consolation that might have been overlooked above

Even if Lieberman sheds his cloak and caucuses with the Republicans,
Boehner does not gain any traction in the House. Our majority in the
House remains solid, and Pelosi stays as Speaker until either the House
Democrats decide they want someone else, or we lose our majority in the
House, which doesn't appear very likely.