Why do some people continue to blame/attack the Duke players?

[Mike Daniels]

Is it because they have issues with middle/upper class white people who go to college and hire strippers?

It it because they were part of the mob that wanted to throw these guys in jail over false charges?

Is because someone must have been paid off because there's no way a minority female stripper would lie about being raped by white men?

I'm curious because I see people who are still raging against these guys on various posts despite the fact that the players were obviously being railroaded by an inept, if not corrupt DA.

[valerief]

1. Do real people do that or just teevee people? nt

[MadBadger]

delete

[MadBadger]

2. real people.

[Buzz Clik]

3. Right here at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1117354

Take a barf bag.

[MadBadger]

6. The OP in that thread was just ridiculous

comparing her being falsely imprisoned for traffic tickets to what they had done to them.

[Pirate Smile]

8. It was a small minority of people though as evidenced by that thread.

Most people didn't think that way.

I always hate it when a couple of people say something and then somebody posts that "DU" thinks this when the huge majority of DU does not. I know you didn't say that or imply it but it is just a pet peeve of mine and I wanted to mention it before somebody else does it. :)

[Buzz Clik]

9. Thanks for the clarification. I agree that my post could have been interpreted incorrectly.

[Mike Daniels]

21. I understand....that's why I said some some people

I was actually hoping that they'd answer directly and provide insight as to why they have this extreme hositility to these three guys.

[Warpy]

20. Yeah, I saw that one and resisted the class rage

which is what it looked like to me. As much as the wealthy look down on the rest of us, ASSuming we're stupid or lazy because we aint rich yet, we tend to look on the upper middle class (misidentified as the rich) as having problems that pale in comparison to our own.

Being hounded and badgered by a DA who should have given a case up as soon as the DNA results came in is horrible, period, no matter what class the person happens to be in. Let's keep our eye on the bad guy, folks, a DA who clung to a lurid case far, far longer than even wishful thinking would have led most people to.

They didn't deserve what happened, it was unfair, and they get to be angry, even to the point of shedding a tear over their wasted year of youth.

Those guys didn't come from the kind of money that makes things go away. The real lesson of this case is that it can happen to any of us at any time.

[Buzz Clik]

25. ..

(no subject to try to avoid re-opening the flamefest) --

I agree with part of your post, disagree with others. We'll let it go at that... However, let's assume for a moment that the young woman who claimed she was raped was actually assaulted in some way. Nifong's unbelievable incompetence and agenda-driven "investigation" means that she stands no chance of ever EVER seeing justice served. And we'll never know what happened in that house that night.

A complete meltdown.

[Warpy]

48. No, we'll never know

because both women told different stories and both women changed their stories more than once. That was the first problem with the case. The DNA evidence should have been the fatal blow. There is no way either woman would have been a credible witness without it.

Sometimes justice won't be served, just a fact of life. If Nifong hadn't clung to this case so long, all parties might have been able to get on with their lives a lot sooner.

[Buzz Clik]

50. Excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[nonconformist]

28. Wow... that thread is simply amazing

Between rallying for falsely imprisoned people while at the same time mocking a victim when the system WORKS and blaming the guys for hiring a stripper in the first place... woah.

[durrrty libby]

40. The OP from that thread, supposedly has a son in prison(she stated)

She constantly posts about prisons, so I tend to believe it

I think if one of my sons were incarcerated, I would

probably go off the deep end too.

I chalk it up to poor coping skills

[Buzz Clik]

47. thanks. That's worth noting.

[JVS]

44. Wow. I like where being arrested for parking tickets lets her know that...

being arrested on charges of rape isn't so scary

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. Because They're Ignorant. That's Really All It Comes Down To. There Is No Other Valid Excuse.

[live love laugh]

5. Gee it's Friday. What a surprise that we are talking about Duke instead of rampant corruption.

:sarcasm:

[Mike Daniels]

7. Don't like it? Start your own thread on rampant corruption.

In the meantime, go somewhere else.

[live love laugh]

13. LOL. Hit a nerve I guess. Good. You need nerve to keep crap like this going. n/t

[Madspirit]

23. Yeah the Nerve

Why on earth does someone interrupt a thread to say it isn't THE thread they would like to see when they could just as easily have started their own thread with what they would like to see. Kind of trollish.
Lee

[nonconformist]

33. People do that all the time, it's ridiculous.

If I don't want to read a thread about a specific topic, I don't click on it. If I read a thread and think it's an utter waste of time, I don't reply to it. Really, it's just people trying to be all self-important and holier-than-thou.

[live love laugh]

43. This thread is "kind of trollish". Which is why I said what I said. n/t

[MadBadger]

45. how is this thread kind of trollish?

[LostInAnomie]

46. There's nothing more annoying than "this isn't important enough" posts.

I think they expect a cookie for "being a good liberal" or something.

[Marrah_G]

10. Because they are bitter and delusional people prone to hysteria

They think having money means you are automatically an evil person who must have done something worth going to jail for in your lifetime and therefore do not deserve any justice at all. If they didn't rape the stripper they should be jailed for hiring one (but the stripper is a poor victim of society and immune to criticism).

Also I have noticed a couple of these folks have an obsession with every person incarcerated who says "I am innocent" as long as that person doesn't have well-off parents. The emotional involvement is bizarre, all it takes is a web page saying "free X, victim of 'the man'" and they fall for it hook line and sinker.

Unless of course.....they have money, then they are guilty of the worst crime ever...having successful parents.

Hypocritical, Hysterical and Hopelessly Ignorant

[LisaM]

11. Rolling Stone had a long article on the role of the lacrosse team at Duke

I think people don't like them (and to be honest, I include myself in this group) because they are insufferable, arrogant, and smarmy. The article came out alongside a piece by Robert Kennedy, Jr. about the 2004 election, which is why I happened to read it. I imagine some saw this as a way to knock these jerks down off their perch. The article detailed a lot of crap that goes on at Duke, a lot of it with regards to how coeds are treated on campus and some of the indignities they endure. It must have come out sometime in 2005; I recommend it. Just because these guys were falsely accused doesn't make them nice people. And, just hiring strippers to simulate sex is pretty icky.

[MadBadger]

17. Well, I know many people who have hired strippers for one reason or another

They are very decent people.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Icky ,Yes. Evidence Of Being Bad People, No

Geez Lisa, if we ostracized everyone with bad taste, we'd have to deport anyone who ever bought a Britney Spears album!

You said "Just because these guys were falsely accused doesn't make them nice people." The corrollary would be: "Just because they showed poor taste doesn't mean they should be treated like criminals."

No?
GAC

[LisaM]

29. Having bad taste and enjoying seeing women degrade themselves

are two different things. Did you see the video of what they were asking those women to do? I did, and it wasn't very pretty; in fact, it was downright disturbing.

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Lisa, Calm Down. I'm Agreeing With You

I don't like it either. I'm a guy and i don't know why anyone would even want to see that, let alone participate.

But, she was a professional. They didn't kidnap her and force her into a lewd dance scene. They paid her to perform. So, there's some bad taste on both sides on this fence.

That still doesn't create q.e.d. that these guys deserve what happened to them. The victim status they have is plenty of reason for me to be sympathetic, even though i don't approve of their little party.
GAC

[LisaM]

41. Me, calm down? Never! LOLOL

Here is the link to the article I was referencing. Bear in mind this was written while charges were still pending, though I think the reporter was trying to be fair. But, it made me really dislike the Duke lacross team, just as people.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10464110/sex__scandal_at_duke/2

[MadBadger]

39. Let the women who do this decide if they are degrading themselves.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. A question.

If a woman is a stripper, and that is her living, why would she make unfounded claims? Strippers hire out for parties like this all the time. What made this one party different? Do you really think the woman went there with the intention of making unfounded, nearly impossible to corroborate accusations?

These things happen. That's why the strippers always go to these parties in pairs - it's much less likely that the guys will get carried away if there are two of them. Some places they won't go unless Bruno goes with, to keep an eye on things. Such precautions would not be necessary unless this sort of thing happens. It's a hazard of the business. They know it. The cops know it. The DA knows it.

The DA was inept. Maybe she exaggerated. Maybe not. But he blew the investigation. That doesn't mean nothing happened.

Do you think OJ is innocent, due to the incompetence of the DA?

[MadBadger]

14. The DA didnt blow the investigation, he should have just stopped it.

How many times did she change her story?

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. No, he did blow the investigation.

A proper investigation could have supported her case or shown her to be full of shit. The inept prosecution did not resolve anything, other that to show that it was an inept prosecution.

For the reasons I cited above, there was plenty of reason to suspect that something happened. That said, he should not have filed charges without the support of a proper investigation. Therefore, he blew it.

[jberryhill]

51. You are confusing "investigation" with "prosecution"

The investigation showed no DNA evidence to support her claim.

The investigation showed that one of the accused had used an ATM in another part of town at the time of the alleged incident.

The investigation showed other DNA evidence that was suppressed by the prosecutor (according to the sworn statement of a sort-of boyfriend of hers, he drove her to "dancing performances" including 5 AM at a Holiday Inn Express - I really don't know how much demand there is for dancing in cheap hotel rooms, but...)

The investigation showed that the first time the "victim" alleged rape was when they were going to put her in detox for having been picked up drunk and refusing to get out of the other woman's car. This would have led to a probation violation if she had gone into detox.

The investigation showed that another of the accused used a cellphone to call his girlfriend several times during the alleged incident.

The investigation showed that she said one of her attackers had a mustache. The Duke Lacrosse team is not allowed to wear any facial hair, and photos from the party don't show anyone with a mustache.

There wasn't much wrong with the investigation (aside from the "can't miss" photo lineup done on the second try at a photo lineup).

Now, the prosecutor who took over the case well after Nifong flamed out reviewed the evidence from the investigation. The second prosecutor didn't fault any investigation. He said that on review of the evidence the accused were "innocent". I have NEVER heard a prosecutor say such a thing.

There was plenty of investigation. What went wrong was proceeding with a prosecution on the basis of that investigation, and WILLFULLY withholding exculpatory evidence that was produced in the investigation.

[Marrah_G]

19. Because she was busted by the cops for being drunk

And while trying to get out of that she said " but I'm a victim!". It worked out well for her for a little while, until people figured out she was full of shit.

[jberryhill]

53. For "being drunk"

No. She stole the keys from a cab driver while giving him a lap dance. Then stole his car. Tried to outrun police in a chase. Stopped the car. And then wheeled around and tried to run over a police officer.

That's not "being drunk", that's attempted murder.

After the party, she argued with the other stripper over money, and got into a drunken fight with her in the parking lot of a grocery store. The other stripper called the police, and the "victim" was picked up on a drunk and disorderly and taken to detox.

At detox, realizing that this would be a probation violation, THAT is where she first claimed rape, and so she was taken from detox to the hospital.

Her motive for the false claim is bleedingly obvious.

[onenote]

22. If you think something happened, please share your theory

And if you have a single shred of evidence to back it up, I'm sure many here would be interested.

[Mike Daniels]

27. I wondered from the get go why the strippers didn't have an escort

Any time my friends hired strippers for whatever occasion there was always a big burly guy (or two) in a car in the driveway or in the adjacent room.

However, it sounds like the other stripper didn't seem to support much of the alleged victim's account either.

[Madspirit]

31. The Sex Trades

I have had many friends in the various sex trades...hookers, pole dancers, strippers, etc. Some of the finest people I have ever known have been in the sex trades. I even had a girlfriend who was a hooker. I think prostitution should be legal. I am almost always on the side of the woman.

Still, I would never claim ANYONE is perfect or that NO ONE IN THAT business ever lies. People of every kind can be screwed up. Maybe they did harass her or make degrading remarks and she wanted a pound of flesh. Who knows. ...but I am a big believer in science also and the DNA did exonerate these boys. Being assholes, if indeed they were, is not a crime.

Lee

[azurnoir]

15. Some people are a bit

suspicious because the Duke players are from well monied and connected GOP families and Nifong is a Democrat, that is why. Does not mean that the players are not innocent, but the whole thing has a "Rovian" air about it.

[MadBadger]

18. It has no Rovian air about it at all.

[jberryhill]

52. I tried to run the "connected GOP" thing to ground a while back

Based on some admitted generalizations about the Finnerty and Seligman families. What *were* their "GOP connections"?

[pitohui]

16. some people can never forgive other people for being victims

see if an innocent person can be accused of a crime, anything can happen and that's too threatening to their world because even they could be at risk from a liar, an opportunist, a sociopath

if you have ever been stalked (i have), if you ever been falsely accused of a crime (i have), you quickly learn how fast people distance themselves from you -- NO ONE wants to identify with a victim, it is simply too terrifying for most people to accept that innocent people can be badly hurt by liars


i hope the duke victims can get some kind of justice/restitution but there is nothing that makes up for the fact that, once you are a victim, many people will NEVER see you in the same way again -- "where there is smoke there is fire"

people who think only the monied are victims of sociopaths, crazies, stalkers, or false accusations are not living in the reality-based universe, MOST victims of same will be the powerless and have no way to defend themselves, as far as i'm concerned it's great that the duke players did have monied parents who can call attention to this issue of careerist DAs who will destroy the innocent just for media attention

[CreekDog]

24. About the over-the-top posts on DU

I have noticed in recent months that invariably they are from a small group of posters and again and again I see them posting ignorant and inflamattory statements about, well, anything.

It's simply amazing that I even recognize the poster and think, "hey, they got me riled up a bunch of times before".

It's almost like they are here to post straw men, get us regular DU'ers upset and make all of us look bad.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

37. It's not "almost like" they are here to post straw men.

They ARE here to piss us off.

I'd say 1/3rd of this forum is not Democratic at all.

[LSK]

30. Please read this

http://www.amazon.com/Assault-Reason-Al-Gore/dp/1594201226

[Tyo]

35. Any concrete examples you could cite?

And why do you think it's widespread enough to be an issue?
Just askin'

[Catherine Vincent]

36. The Duke players haven't been a topic on DU for a while.

At least until now...

[MadBadger]

38. Nifong is on trial today.

[JVS]

42. Because hiring strippers is teh evilz!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. The same reason people attack OJ?

:shrug:

[Liberal In Texas]

54. OJ murdered 2 people. That's why. This case is different. n/t