I have to ask , without impeachment what good

[blues90]

are all these proposed plans the Dems are telling us will be slowed down if they went for impeachment .

I ask this insane question because what I see so far is some almost useless min wage bill passed that will do nothing to improve anyones life because it will be absorbed by the cost of living well before it reachs it's full $7.20 per hour .

Not only this but with Lie-berman pounding for an attack on Iran and cheney heading up this horror if it happens then all bets are off .

We seem to be worse off than before the elections at least in mindset , before the elections we had hope to hold onto however now this has all but evaporated .

Everything is still a complete disaster , no matter where you look you find more horror and not even a glimps of good news .

Isn't a bit insane to allow these criminals to continue and focus on small bits of new laws that may never be realized if suddenly everything just comes apart at the seams .

I realize many people have all sorts of hope in a Dem being president in 2009 and feel this will somehow heal this country or at least what's left of it .

I also realize we have been convinced that impeachment is impossible but how would we ever know this if we did not try ?

I am a bit confused about this backward thinking . It's like instead of cutting out the cancer you instead feed it and allow it to grow hoping a band aid will suffice .

[LSK]

1. let me ask you this

Will just the Impeachment process itself fix things or do we need Impeachment and CONVICTION?

[blues90]

3. we need both , but without a start

we are doomed to the will of the bush admin for the next 18 months . They do need to be convicted of their crimes or we will just make it possible for this to happen again in the future .

I am not certain if impeachment will not allow conviction but at this point we risk our entire future in their criminal hands .

[damntexdem]

4. The world can't wait. We need impeachment now.

Even without conviction in the Senate, it would weaken Dubya. More importantly, it would be a sign that the Dems were growing spines -- and could thwart Dubya's varied evil plans.

[LSK]

6. we need 17 Republican Senators to vote to convict

Do you have a "possible" list?

[elocs]

12. There's no guarantee that all Democratic senators would vote to convict.

Then there's Lieberman.

[blues90]

14. No , wish I had -

I don't know the full extent of the repubs criminal acts but some may be open to common sense or at least seeing reality .

[partylessinOhio]

9. Impeachment just might stop this movement to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!

Isn't that worth it?

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[blues90]

20. This is what I was hoping for .

[elocs]

11. I think the impeachment crowd simply wants impeachment.

Considering conviction by the Senate means they would have to think about numbers and where the votes would come from. It is far easier to simply scream for impeachment all the time. Then they will be the first ones to call all of those Republican senators cowards because they did not vote to convict. They do know it will take Republican senators voting to convict to reach 67 votes don't they. Details, details.

[TheWraith]

23. Indeed. It's easier to shout than to think, and in some ways more satisfying. NT

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

2. To Answer Your Last Question, The Answer Is Simply 'Common Sense'.

It is the equivalent of asking "How do you know you can't jump off the grand canyon and live? How would you know if you didn't try?". Some things, need not an actual attempt in order to deduce, through common sense, their accurate outcome.

[blues90]

5. perhaps , however

Lets say for example that if impeachment were in the process , how can we be certain once this is an actual process put forward that some of the repubs just might join in or perhaps pushed by their party members in their districts to get the votes . I know how it looks now with the repubs in lockstep but is it more possible than living through the grand canyon leap using common sense .

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Same Answer: By Common Sense.

[blues90]

15. I unnderstand the common sense idea , however

am I to assume that you feel there is no hope that there is no possible chance that enough repubs may see the reality of their actions and change their position ?

I do realize I am being a bit to hopeful which is not my usual profile .

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Yes, Feel Free To Assume That.

Barring of course some future unforeseen horrendous act. Based on what has happened and where we stand today? Yes, you can absolutely feel free to assume that about me.

[blues90]

18. It is the unforeseen horrendous act that concerns me most

Then all bets are off and I do see this as a real possibility .

It may be wishful thinking on my part that if there were any chance at all of stopping them now it is worth a shot even if the barrel of the rifle is bent .

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. I Understand Your Concerns.

Please don't think I don't share them.

I just know that impeachment, as an entire process of removal, is just quite simply not gonna happen.

[blues90]

21. I have to agree -

It's just a hope , I would hate to hear later on after the entire middle east bursts into flames that some dems and repubs come out saying they would have voted for impeachment for the right reasons , trouble is they have no rational that I can see . It is also easy to say alot in hind sight , we already hear alot of this from out grand failed so called government .

I feel many voted the dem ticket to end this occupation but there must be many that were hoping upon hope bush and cheney would be tossed out .

[Toots]

7. If Common Sense were so common or sense we would not be in Iraq

Some times you have to air things out. You may have your mind made up that Republicans would never listen to evidence in a fair and impartial manner. I am a bit more optimistic than that. I actually believe there have been crimes committed and if actual evidence that is concrete is given it would be near imposible not to convict...

[leftofthedial]

8. but they HAVE to keep impeachment off the table because

it would distract them from their AGENDA which we don't know what it is, but it doesn't matter because they can't really pass anything or even PROPOSE anything because they don't have a veto-proof MAJORITY and it's really not their fault because . . .

[onenote]

13. how exactly is the minimum wage bill useless

Would workers be better or worse off if they continued to be paid the current minimum wage instead of a higher minimum wage. Of course they'd be better if it was higher than $7.25 (not $7.20), but if you are a minimum wage worker and would prefer to continue to make the old wage, I'm sure you can find some other minimum wage workers who would happily take your increase.

BTW, what exactly do you think the current inflation rate is?

[blues90]

17. Certainly something is better than nothing

but it will not keep them from sinking further down . I don't know what the actual rate of inflation is but based on my own experience the cost of gas and food alone is killing me and over ten years since the last lift of the min wage has put many people in poverty that might have been able to at least avoid this . The min wage should have been a living wage of at least $12 per hour and in one shot not over two years .

[Zodiak]

22. Impeachment right now would be perfect

1. We are heading into the summer, and long hearings during the summer often lead to discontent in the Fall.

know what is happening in the fall?

2. The Republicans will peel off from Bush's Iraq war stance (as they indicated). You may get your 17 votes then, and the process will already be mature enough to move to the Senate then.

but something makes me think that we will make excuses and let Bush run wild up until the fall and beyond. And because the pukes and the WH have been enboldened by our cowardice, they will press to minimize the "peel off" in September, maybe even roll out a new product....war with Iran or a new "surge".

Their strength lies in our cowardice....and THAT is completely within our control.

[ISUGRADIA]

24. You are not going to convict Bush and Cheney

Republican Senators are not going to put Nancy Pelosi in the White House. Talk about political suicide.