Thursday's NJ Homeland Security nightmare, or how I almost got arrested

[Jersey Devil]

If I hadn't already done so, my experience yesterday with NJ government and Homeland Security convinced me that it is all a crock of shit and that absolutely nothing is being done to make us "safer", successful in nothing other than perhaps to keep us all in fear, which I have concluded is probably the desired result.

Way back in February I received a notice from the NJ Motor Vehicle Commission that my driver's license, up for renewal in June (this month) had to be renewed with a photo ID and to get it renewed I need a "six point" identification which includes, among other things, a birth certificate. Well, no problem, I have had my birth certificate handy, but then I read the fine print. If you were born in Hudson County, NJ your birth certificate is no good and will not be accepted. Why? Apparently because some of the 9/11 hijackers had fake licenses they obtained with fake birth certificates they got from Hudson County, specifically Jersey City.

Thus began my odyssey. To get an "official" birth certificate I had to apply to the NJ Bureau of Vital Statistics in Trenton, send them a check for $25.00 together with a copy of my current license and vehicle registration and presto, in 7-8 weeks I would have my birth certificate. I did that on March 9th. On April 12th they cashed my check. Then, on May 30, some 11 weeks after I first asked for the certificate and still didn't have it, I decided to call them. So after about the 10th busy signal and being put on hold for 20 minutes (for a toll call to Trenton from extreme NE NJ) I got through and was told, "No, it's not 8 weeks from when you apply. It's 8 weeks from when we cash your check." Since I have to take a plane flight next week and need current photo ID I asked them to expedite it and they very snarkily replied that they do not "expedite" anything, that it would be about another 2-3 weeks and that if I wanted it right away I would have to go to Trenton and do it in person.

So yesterday I drove to Trenton (about 80 miles each way), entered the office where about 50-75 people were waiting in line or sitting in chairs waiting for their names to be called and gave a clerk the ID numbers I'd been given on the phone, thinking I would pick up the certificate and leave right away. Noooo, I would have to fill out another application even though the one I sent by mail had been processed and approved. So, like the rest of the sheep there I followed orders, filled out another application and was told, "It will be about an hour, we'll call your name."

Well, about an hour and a half later they did indeed call my name and I went up to the front of the line and, without showing any ID whatsoever, got my birth certificate, complete with the official New Jersey seal on it, which apparently means that the State has certified that I really do exist and probably am not a hijacker, though they really had no idea whatsoever who the hell they were handing the document to.

But there was one tiny problem - It had the wrong birth date on it. I was born on April 21 and the certificate they handed me said April 24. So I went back to the clerk and told her "this has the wrong date on it" (even though both my applications specified the date correctly). With this, the clerk says, "I'll check", makes a phone call and says, "Well, they say it looks like a "24" on their copy so it will have to remain that way."

This is when I almost got arrested when I said, in a very loud and extremely belligerent manner, "Listen, I know when I was born, and I will be damned if I am going to let some civil servant in an agency that takes 11 weeks to check my one page application, and charges me $25.00 solely because another civil servant was crooked and took a bribe, change my birth date. I know when I was born, dammit!. Get a supervisor here now because I am not leaving the front of this line until someone gives me a correct certificate."

With this, there was a big huddle among the clerks that included the security guard and I was told, "We'll check again." Five minutes later the certificate arrived with the correct date and I left, to the applause, btw, of about 50 other pissed off citizens there for the same stupid reason.

There! Now I feel better. And, wow, aren't we so much safer! :sarcasm:

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Wait till you apply for a job...

and have to go through all this again.

[MADem]

2. Can't get good help anymore

Now, if your first name was Osama, that'd be the icing on the cake!

FWIW, you actually CAN fly without an ID, or with an expired one. If they tell ya no, you tell them they're full of shit, in the nicest possible way, of course.

You DO have to submit to "full security screening" which can get as intense as they feel it needs to get. But they can't refuse you if you don't have that magic ID. Most people don't know that, in fact, some of the TSA idiots don't know it. There's a guy who flies around the US without ID deliberately, just to yank their chain. http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/71115

Harper told the identification checker he had no ID, and the attendant quickly wrote "No ID" with a red marker on his ticket and shunted him off to an extra screening line -- generously allowing him to bypass the longer queue...There Harper was directed into the belly of a General Electric EntryScan puffer machine that shot bits of air at his suit in order to see if he had been handling explosives.

TSA employees wearing baby blue surgical gloves then swiped his Sidekick and his laptop for traces of explosives and searched through his carry-on, while a supervisor took his ticket, conferred with other employees and made a phone call.

Meanwhile, a TSA employee approached this reporter, who was watching the search through Plexiglas, and said, "It's pretty awkward you are standing here taking notes," but he did not ask for identification or call for a halt to the note-taking.

The TSA supervisor returned from her phone call and asked Harper why he didn't have identification and to where he was traveling. But she was satisfied enough with his answer -- that he had mailed his driver's license home to Washington, D.C. -- that she allowed him to pass.

At 6:30 a.m., standing 50 yards away on the other side of the glass screen, Harper phoned to say he now had two hours to kill, having gotten through screening perhaps even faster than he would have if he'd shown ID. He guessed he was able to get through without much hassle by being polite and dressing well....

More here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6657697

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/flying_without.html

[BanzaiBonnie]

13. I got pulled from the ID check line

for random "special attention" when I flew out of PDX a couple of months ago.


They put me in the puffer machine. It was a horrifying experience. I have only flown about three time in my life. They gave me no indication of what was going to happen when they had me stand in the booth. I have asthma and my breath was taken away. I almost had a panic attack and after the first round of air hit me I yelled "what the heck was that" "what's happening to me' and the screener frowned and waved a dismissive hand my way. Just stay put! I was hit by another round of forced air, then another for good measure. It was all I could do to remain in place without freaking out. I had no idea what they were doing to me. It was like torture for me!


I really think they ought to let people know before they put them in a little box and throw air wht is going to happen.

[HereSince1628]

3. So where's the part where you almost got arrested?

:shrug:

[MADem]

4. Towards the end when the yelling started...

This is when I almost got arrested when I said, in a very loud and extremely belligerent manner, "Listen, I know when I was born, and I will be damned if I am going to let some civil servant in an agency that takes 11 weeks to check my one page application, and charges me $25.00 solely because another civil servant was crooked and took a bribe, change my birth date. I know when I was born, dammit!. Get a supervisor here now because I am not leaving the front of this line until someone gives me a correct certificate."

[Jersey Devil]

5. Yep, not to mention that there was probably spittle coming from my lips

The absurdity of having to wait 11 weeks, pay a $25 fee, drive 80 miles each way (with about $12 in tolls on the NJ Turnpike and parking fees) because some other civil servant in Jersey City didn't do his job and now having to deal with another incompetent agency that was telling me that I was wrong about when I was born just about blew my head off. I am glad I do not have hypertension.

[KansDem]

20. Not to mention that you could've been driving on a toll road owned by a foreign company...

...based in a country that supports terrorism, which is the reason you needed to go through all this rigamarole in the first place!

US: Foreign Companies Buy U.S. Roads, Bridges

It boggles the mind and taxes one's sensibilities...:crazy:

[MADem]

25. I do love that CORP WATCH--they nail it every time... NT

[MADem]

24. I have a relative who used to work in a government registry. They have

pretty substantial procedures to handle people who get too far outta line, ever since that shooting in San Francisco that changed DiFi's life.

But I truly can relate to the absurdity. I have one of my own. I get pulled aside for "extra screening" every time I fly. Every time. And my name isn't Bin Ladin, either...heck, in that case, if the past is any indicator, I'd probably go to the FRONT of the line!!!! Or they'd bring me a government plane to take me to my destination.

It doesn't matter that I have a higher clearance than the clueless idiots pulling my shit apart, questioning me, and poking and prodding me. It doesn't matter if I bring along a dozen or more ticket stubs with the big red S on them, or four separate IDs, including government issued ones. And it certainly doesn't matter that I've got decades of military service under my belt. I'm on "the list" ....so as long as I am already on the list, let me just mention, qite gratuitously, that George Bush really IS a fucking idiot!!

The rigidity of government agencies is just not a good thing. If they can't bend, or adapt, or employ reasonable judgment without fear, they get justified reputations for being stupid assholes. Your case takes the cake, though--"I'm too fucking lazy to retype this thing, so you just LIVE with a wrong birthdate!!!! Oh, and LIKE it!!!!"

Imagine if you'd gotten that thing in the MAIL, though, after waiting twice as long--now there's a hypertensive moment!

[HereSince1628]

6. You got loud, but you don't give any indication they threatened arrest

Not that a person can't get arrested for being "disorderly," but from what you write it doesn't seem to have gone like that. Rather, you say they huddled and came away in agreement... your loud complaint/demand was worthy of reconsideration.

We ought not be afraid to complain, sometimes loudly. The quiet shrinking away from the face of incompetence in office is a huge part of the problem with our nation. The DCdems seem to have a terminal case of this problem.

I'm proud of your well placed resistance.

[MADem]

23. I'm not the YOU of the story....it happened to Jersey Bin Osama Devil, not me!!! nt

[blueworld]

7. Ah, memories of the NJDMV

They still stink on ice then? Nice job, by the way. The Homeland Security thing apparently consists of calling in Security Fools whenever a paying customer/consumer demands service above a whisper & GOD FORBID you look a little put out.

The local hospital left our son sitting in the waiting room in agony with a kidney stone for 3 hours & gave him a bedpan to vomit in while they gave flu shots to Billy Bob & Myrtle May etc. who came in ahead of him. When we walked up to the Admissions Desk & demanded they at least put him on a bed in a hallway with a painkiller, they called the Security Guard to stand next to us. Our years of experience with NJDMV paid off - the Security Guard got confused when we weren't intimidated & they finally admitted our son.

Have a safe flight & wear clean socks without holes. :hi:

[LiberalEsto]

11. I don't miss the NJDMV

We moved to Maryland 17 years ago. I miss my friends & family in NJ. I miss the Shore, decent pizza, real diners, friendlier people (in general) and a lot of other things.

I don't miss the sky-high property taxes and car insurance bills and horrible traffic congestion, but most of all, I am glad I no longer have to deal with the imbeciles at NJ Motor Vehicles.

[Solo_in_MD]

14. All things are relative

I consider the MVA a major disaster, the taxes are high and the government is more than a little smug

[LiberalEsto]

21. I wonder whether you have lived in NJ

I pay about $2500 a year in property taxes in Montgomery County, MD. The property tax on the same house in a comparably good school district in NJ would be at least $7500 a year if not more. There is simply no comparison.

The MVA in Gaithersburg was a nightmare when we first moved here, but it has improved considerably, at least in my experience.

About the smug government -- you're absolutely right about that. But I would rather have smug than totally corrupt, like it is in NJ.

[Solo_in_MD]

22. I have not lived in NJ

my real home is CA, though I have lived in a number of states and abroad. My comparison was based on my CA experience.

[Vinca]

8. So essentially, they were forcing you to take false ID the first time around?nt

[donco6]

9. That birth date would have been a huge problem.

You were absolutely right to fight that. You'd have been on a no-fly list fer sure with mismatched birthdates.

[siligut]

10. You deserved that applause.

:applause: Sounds like you had a majority in your corner too! Good work.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Now try to get a passport!

[Marnieworld]

15. My guess is that you are in no way brown with a very "American" name

If you in any way fit a "profile" we would not be reading your post. It reminds me of why I'm not very concerned with the mass email and net surveillance. They are too incompetent to do it right.

[Kber]

16. Send this story to the Star Ledger

I wouldn't be surprised if they ran with it!

KB

[MADem]

26. Send it to the Governor--he really needs to know this. NT

[pat_k]

32. 6 pt ID is also forcing folks to get court ordered name changes. . .

. . .that have no other purpose but to satisfy their insanity.

Described my situation in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1018788&mesg_id=1025771">More Tales of NJ Digital License Insanity

I briefly considered mounting some sort of legal challenge, but didn't pursue. I'm thinking a call to the ACLU might be in order just to see if they have anything going on it.

[MADem]

35. Holy shit--what a clusterfuck. At MINIMUM, the state should PAY the fees for that name change.

If they insist upon it, you should be able to fill out and sign a simple form, and they pay all associated fees. They're the ones who are fucking with the law, after all--not you! I do think the ACLU should get interested--if it is LEGAL to change your name by usage, then the state is wrong to penalize and moreover, CHARGE you when you have followed the law. You're being punished and singled out, because they want to make a new system "fit." You deserve some redress, IMO.

[lazyriver]

17. Infuriating. Homeland Security my ass...

This is what they spend all that federal money on? Creating layer upon layer of bureaucracy to make simple tasks for citizens nearly impossible. At the same time a guy makes two international flights with a case of potentially deadly TB. But you can't bring a tube of toothpaste or a water bottle on a plane.

A friend and I recently flew to Tampa for another friend's wedding. We met at Newark Airport for our direct flight. He's a contractor and brought his biker style saddle bag "briefcase" as his carry on. After being asked at check in and security if we had any liquids or gels, we finally put our bags & shoes thru X-ray. After donning our shoes and deciding to get a beer, my friend opens his bag and reaches in to find his wallet. It's at this point he figures out he left a utility razor knife in it after his last job- you know, the kind that holds five extra blades in the handle and has the slide-lock button on the back to extend the blade. We debated what to do with it at this point. Certainly we weren't going to get on the plane with it. We couldn't throw it away in a trash can because that seemed irresponsible and potentially dangerous. If we went back and handed it to TSA we figured we might end up somewhere we didn't want to be for questioning and who knows what else. We ultimately decided to leave the terminal and go through security again this time "finding" and surrendering the knife voluntarily to the TSA goons.

As he stood there with his shoes and bag on the conveyor about to go through the metal detector, he extends his hand and says, "Here, I forgot I had this in my work bag. I'm sorry. I brought it by mistake". The TSA guy, still staring out into space, reaches over and grabs one of those little personal affects bowls where you drop your keys and says, "Put it in here for the X-ray machine".
My friend says, "Excuse me? You want me to put THIS through"? The guy finally looks down and realizes he is holding out a knife to surrender it and says, "Oh. Uh. No. I guess you better give that to me".

I feel so safe.

[tblue37]

18. I was surprised to see that ABC--Yes ABC!--has a new

summer replacement series called Traveler, in which 2 innocent young men are framed by someone in the Department of Homeland Security--set up to be blamed for a domestic terrorism incident and then killed by undercover thugs to prevent them from finding out what really happened.

So far the implications seem to be that the event was staged so the party in power could gain political points for implementing their agenda. I stumbled across the show, because I was stuck in a chair with a cat on me and nothing else to do (you don't move a cat that has honored you with its attention!), so I turned the TV on. I wasn't planning to watch the show at all--I hate that sort of "Run to escape the all-powerful organization tht will destroy you even though you are innocent" theme. But Since it seems the show has an antifascist/anti-BushCo political agenda, I guess I will now have to watch to see how it plays out. Pop culture is powerful, and a show like this might help to inform or at least scare some people about the move toward fascism.

It is sort of the anti-24. In the same way that 24 conditions people to fear Muslims and approve of torture, this show might teach them to fear what the overreaching powers of BushCo's government agencies might do.

I actually believe the appearance of shows like this is strong evidence that the network powers recognize the country's mood has changed. I considered starting a thread on this, because I was surprised that no one had yet. Didn't anyone else see the show?

[donco6]

28. I saw it and actually liked it.

It was intriguing. Decent acting. I'm curious how it plays out, too. Very anti-establishment.

[tblue37]

29. I especially liked that they showed how menacing Homeland Seurity could be. (eom)

[Javaman]

19. Shades of the movie Brazil in that odyssey. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Geeze, I renew my DL on line. All I need for that is my insurance policy #.

:crazy:

[donco6]

30. This is what happens . . .

. . . when legislators enact laws with no concept as to the mechanism that would be needed to support it. Happens all the time. "Oh, we'll just make everyone renew with an official birth certificate!" Yeah, great idea. Except all the counties have no clue as to the tidal wave that's about to hit them. Jeebus.

[pat_k]

31. More Tales of NJ Digital License Insanity

Do they really have to put people though such hell for the "privilege" of getting a mandatory Digital Driver License?

Isn't it bad enough that, if we want to keep driving legally, we must have our digital images, signatures, and associated information stored in a centralized database? Just warms my heart to know that facial recognition software makes it easy for law enforcement, government agencies, and private agencies working on behalf of them to id me (and that last clause pretty much opens it up to anybody).

Variations of my particular tale of digital license woe are apparently quite common. In order to pass the ID verification requirements I had to get a court ordered name change to change my name to. . . well. . . my name.

I've been known throughout my life by my step father's last name. The fact that this name doesn't match my birth certificate has never been a problem. When I first got a license an affidavit from my mother made the connection. As an adult it's never been a problem because under common law you can change your name to anything you darn well please by usage. Ironically, it's NJ case law that set the precedent.

The common law permits an adult to change his or her name without leave of court simply by adopting a new name and utilizing it in the ordinary course of daily living. See McGarvey v. Atlantic City & S. R. R., 123 N. J. Law 281, 8 A. (2d) 385, 387 (1940).

(E. & A.1939); State v. Librizzi, 14 N.J.Misc. 904 (Sup.Ct.1936); In re Witsenhausen, 42 N.J.L.J. 183 (C.P.1919). Of course, this method would not obtain if the individual had a fraudulent or criminal purpose for assuming the new name. Id.

With more than four decades of usage, school records, Soc Sec, a decade of Property Taxes, and so on, it didn't occur to me that I'd have a problem renewing my license.

Silly me.

It took about 7 months and about 600 bucks (in addition to court fees you pay to run public notices before and after the judgment), but I finally got my "name change" judgment.

Unfortunately my license had expired in the meantime so I drove without a valid license for awhile. I didn't get pulled over, but in case I did I kept a zip lock full of identifying docs and court filings with me. Figured I'd show the police my old license, explain why I couldn't renew, and hope for the best.

I've now joined the 5 million or so other NJ drivers in the DDL database. Still don't like the idea, but it's nice not to worry about being pulled over.

People are also being forced to get court ordered name changes when the name they use isn't a precise match to their birth certificate (e.g., if you've used only your middle name throughout your life).

With this sort of insanity I can't help but wonder how many drivers in NJ are currently driving without a valid license. I'm sure I'm not alone. I am also sure that requiring a 600 dollar name change would put a license out of reach for many.

From the March 2007 NJ Motor Vehicle Commission http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/About/March302007.pdf">Service Assessment

More than a dozen initiatives comprised the Digital Driver License (DDL) project, the biggest technological challenge to ever face the MVC.

Given the nightmare it is causing so many NJ residents, it's nice to know that MVC bureaucrats have probably been suffering a few of their own.

[pat_k]

33. "Couple remarries so wife can get driver's license" 4/5/07

Almost 60 years after their wedding, Andover Township residents Gertrude and Joseph Don Angelo decided they needed to be married.

Confused yet?

The Don Angelos were joined in holy matrimony on Oct. 11, 1947, at St. Sylvester's Church in Brooklyn, N.Y., but the couple never obtained a certified state record of their union. They always had a certificate of marriage from the church, but that wasn't good enough when Gertrude, 76, tried to renew her driver's license late last year.

The New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission enacted a strict six-point identification system in September 2003, which requires a state-issued marriage certificate to show legal proof of a name change. Gertrude's maiden name is Mansfield.

She absolutely had to have a driver's license, because her husband Joseph, 82, has kidney problems and needs to be taken to dialysis.

So after 59 years of marriage, the couple came to an awkward realization: They needed to be married once again, simply to get their hands on a state document

http://www.apostille.us/news/couple_remarries_so_wife_can_get_drivers_license.shtml">More. . .

[MADem]

36. What absolute HORSESHIT! This is egregious, and no one, really, is covering this like they should

The frigging cable news networks oughta sink their teeth into THIS shit instead of Anna Nicole and Paris...this is real people, caught in a state and federal GRINDER. Hell, they could probably do three hours of just "examples" that would get blood boiling from sea to shining sea.

[pat_k]

34. More tales of horror. . .

The stories are from Virginia, but the problems are faced by people in every state requiring 6 pt ID verification and the like:

http://www.roanoke.com/columnists/gottstein/wb/xp-8778">Real-life horror stories of Virginia citizens who can't prove legal presence