In your opinion, is it wrong for men to open doors for women?

[SayWhatYo]

In your opinion, is it wrong for men to open doors for women? I was raised to believe that it was pretty much the right thing to do... Things such as opening doors, walking on the right side, and offering to carry items etc, ya know? Typically this has never really been an issue, however, a few times I have encountered individuals who claimed it was sexist to do such things. This was rare and I figured the people simply didn't like me. Anyways, there was a discussion about this subject on another forum about this subject(but they are not really the brightest people, lol) So I figured I would try to start it up here because I found it rather interesting.

[RB TexLa]

1. Whoever gets to a door first should be polite and open it

assuming they wish to go to the other side of the door.

[a kennedy]

I agree, and I do it too. I think it's just being considerate.

:)

[woodsprite]

32. I go along with you. BUT I've had some instances,

where the guy thinks he needs to take the door from me when I open it if I get there first, then expects me to go thru. I find that infuriating. If I open the door first and I'm holding it for you, walk thru it! My hubby is especially hard headed about that one!

One of our managers asked hubby and I who trained him because she had forgotten what it was like for a guy to hold her chair for her, hold her coat, umbrella, door, etc. for her. She didn't say it nasty - like our boss has been known to do. Now that she's retired, maybe she'll find a nice gentleman who can reaquaint her with those courtesies.

[Matariki]

121. sounds more like a valet than a partner (?)

[HeeBGBz]

75. Exactly, the sex of the individual shouldn't matter

I think it's a nice gesture for anyone.

[Tesha]

106. Ta-da! We have a winner! (NT)

[Billy Ruffian]

124. vehement concurrance

doesn't matter who's coming next. If I'm there first, I'll hold it for the next person coming.

If the person in front of me is encumbered for some reason, I'll offer to get the door.

Sometimes I get stuck holding the door for bunches of folks ;-)

[TahitiNut]

154. I'd faint if a woman ever opened the door for me.

It's been mostly my experience that, if a woman got to the door first, she'd stop and wait for me to catch up and open it for her. Me? I open and hold the door for anyone ... male or female.

[meldroc]

2. No.

It's simply a polite thing to do. Though these days I tend to open doors for everyone.

[Mandate My Ass]

3. I open doors for whomever is nearby...

I'm a female and I think opening doors for others is just common courtesy.

[BlueJazz]

40. My feelings also. I don't discriminate when it comes to Courtesy.

[rpgamerd00d]

4. Yes.

People should hold doors open for other people because its polite.

[BlackVelvet04]

5. I like it.

I've had back surgery and some doors (especially at malls) are very heavy.

[Sherman A1]

6. I always make an effort to try to get to the door and open it

for a woman. Perhaps old fashioned, but I really don't care.

[demnan]

7. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Personally I consider that a courtesy, and if it's extended I say thank you regardless of the sex of the individual. It doesn't bother me if a person doesn't do it, as long as they don't slam the door in my face, which is rude.

[babylonsister]

8. No.

I like it and do the same for anyone if I'm there first. It's called 'manners'.

[CountAllVotes]

9. Doing those things means a man is a "gentleman"

in fact my own father went to "Gentlemen's" school when he was a young man (c. 1940).

And, he was indeed a gentleman.

I sure wish all men were like he was. It makes a woman feel like she is special.

:toast: to you "Gentlemen" and thank you! :D

[Missy M]

10. No it's not wrong for either men or women to open doors for each other.

It's nice.

[Horse with no Name]

11. As a woman, I open the door for anyone that is behind me

including men. I will also offer to carry packages for people.
I think it is just courtesy. I have actually had men jump in front of me to open the door. I was not offended.
There are many more things in the world to get offended about. A man opening a door for me doesn't even rank.

[Alamom]

47. Same here. It should be a mutual courtesy. n/t

[blogslut]

12. As long as I get to open doors for men

I have had more than one 'door fight' in my day. Most men are surprised that I do this and when I say say: "Let me be the gentleman" they usually comply pleasantly. There are times though, when I have gotten into a downright tussle and will concede control of the door to the man. My only hope is that man will think about how silly it was for him to have wasted the chance to be treated kindly.

[The2ndWheel]

13. I find it better to slam the door instead

Actually that would take more energy to do than simply opening the door.

In an increasingly individualized and automated world, any chance for some actual human interaction is a plus.

[Quantess]

14. No! It's courtesy.

I hold doors open for people. I'm a woman. I get irritated when people let the door smack me, when it's easy for them to hold on to the door.

Who the f*** says it's sexist to hold a door open? I'm in a mood to rip that person a new one.

[AndyA]

15. It shouldn't have anything to do with sex, it's common courtesy.

I've had women open doors for me before, and I thank them for their thoughtfulness. It's just the appropriate thing for one human to do for another, regardless.

[mnhtnbb]

16. I open doors for men and women--and especially Moms with strollers.

[Jane Austin]

17. Of course not.

No more than it is for a woman to open the door for a man.

[Double T]

18. I've always done it and always will............

how can being courteous and considerate for a woman (or man) EVER be wrong????

[gatorboy]

19. Only the revolving ones....

[malaise]

20. It's a lovely thing to do

and women with a sense of self are delighted when men of any age open doors. Some of my male (and female) students even offer to carry my books and I go out of my way to acknowledge their respect for their elders.

On the other hand, when my hubby was recovering from illness, I opened doors for him.

Let me add that if I open a door and see anyone close to it, male or female, I hold the door until they reach it.

Once on a New York bus three decades ago, my friend and I got up and offered our seats to two elderly ladies and were greeted with a loud "What do you think we are...old?" Maybe two Afro-West Indians offering seats was more than they could bear but we giddled big time and said "Yes that's what we thought".
I never forgot those two unmannerly bitches. But hey good manners are as old fashioned as smiling with a stranger.

Add.

[Jeanette in FL]

24. That is a great story

I can just hear them now.

And I agree, it is very nice when a man open a door for a woman or a woman opening a door for a man. It is called manners.

[malaise]

42. That bus incident never left me

I was beyond shocked at their public display of really bad manners. Last year I was visiting my friend and her family and we had other friends cracking up with laughter when we recalled that day on the bus in Manhattan. :D

[Jeanette in FL]

48. As a former New Yawker

I know how brash we can be. That is why I was cracking up reading your story because I have seen it with my own eyes.

I could just hear the two old ladies saying that. Too funny.

[malaise]

53. It was funny

Shockingly funny and in a way it showed how tough and independent they were. By the way I have tons of New York relatives :D

[Stephanie]

89. I think that is a major reason people DON'T do it.

I've seen pregnant women standing on the subway and I'm sure it's because people are afraid to ask in case the woman is just overweight and they'll cause offense by offering.

[CTyankee]

50. Oh, that's just New Yorkers for you!

When I first came to live in New York (as a gal from Texas) I remember bumping into an older lady in the subway rush. I turned to apologize to her (even tho the bumping was as much her as me)and she was already some four or five feet ahead of me. I learned that subways are for pushing...

[malaise]

56. Strangely of all the states I've visited

I still love New York the most. New York is alive.

[CTyankee]

112. Have you been to Rome? If not, you'd love it too.

When I visited there last November, I called it "New York with Vespas."

I'm checking out London, Paris and Venice next fall. I'm hoping for another great experience (altho I was in London and Paris MANY years ago}.

[Hekate]

86. Nicest thing on a bus: I was about 8 months pregnant and a tiny elderly lady gave me her seat

This was when I lived in Honolulu. The bus was full, and there were a number of young men sitting close to where I was hanging on to the overhead bar and lurching as the bus lurched. Someone's Oba-san who looked about 80 offered me her seat and I was so grateful. I knew she'd been in my shoes at an earlier time in her life -- good manners and kindness are forever.

Hekate

[Stephanie]

88. Precisely.

I've noticed NYC men returned to old-fashioned manners post-9/11. It's the rule now rather than the exception that they hold the door or wait for us to get off the elevator first. I appreciate it. Etiquette actually simplifies things and makes life easier to negotiate. And post-9/11, NYC men, in my observation, men from all walks of life, appointed themselves as the protectors and defenders. And you know what? I appreciate that. I like it.

[ChickMagic]

21. Nope, it's not wrong.

I open doors for plenty of men too. Only a handful look
uncomfortable with that.

[WI_DEM]

22. No, and nothing wrong with a woman opening the door for a man either.

[murray hill farm]

23. people should always extend this kindness to other

people whenever and if they are able..it is the caring way to be in the world.

[ItNerd4life]

25. No, it's not wrong.

I don't think it's sexist at all. Someone trying to be courteous shouldn't be looked down upon.

To me, it's like saying it's sexist if a woman has long hair, wears makeup, wears high heals, etc.

[BOSSHOG]

26. A man opens a door for a woman going inside a building, however

if they are exiting a building, the man exits first to ensure there are no obstructions, or whether there is need for an umbrella (or snipers.) Also, the man will always walk on the street side of a sidewalk for the woman's safety (in case a car zooms by and splashes water on the sidewalk.) My grandfather was a very good instructor in the gentlemanly arts. He died in 1960 when being a gentleman was the rule rather than an exception.

[Homer Wells]

30. What BOSSHOG said!!

agree 100%

:toast:

[treestar]

57. Nowadays would he walk on the inside of the sidewalk in case of

lurking rapists?

Not to mention the long hooked pole.

[BOSSHOG]

60. I've been pondering

that since I posted. My wife and I visit New Orleans often and occasionally one finds a person nestled up against a building with feet and a potpourrie of body fluids dribbling onto the sidewalk. Its a challenge for a gentleman. Should I protect her from the traffic or from the "traffic?" And those wonderful old sidewalks in the quarer are not very wide.

[Solon]

76. Trivia alert...

The reason men are supposed to be on that side of the sidewalk was because in the olden days, people chucked the contents of their bedpans, etc. out the window, and the man, being a gentleman, was supposed to protect the woman from the flying refuse.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

79. Now THAT is ridiculous.

Opening doors for anyone of any sex is fine, but why in fuck's name to I need somebody to protect me from splash from cars?

:wtf:

:P

[Tesha]

108. No one here is likely to object to your getting soaked.

> Now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> Opening doors for anyone of any sex is fine, but why
> in fuck's name to I need somebody to protect me from
> splash from cars?

As you wish.

No one here is likely to object to your getting soaked
if that is your desire.

Tesha

[Stephanie]

90. Well now you're into the finer points.

I always notice when a man switches sides with me to take the outside of the sidewalk. That is the sign of a studious etiquette fanatic.

[BOSSHOG]

111. After 30+ years

my wife is used to it. And she has the ingress and egress activity down pat as well. I always exit a building first. And she always sits first at a restaurant. My wife has another name instead of fanatic but she remains happily married.

[Red Right and BLUE]

159. Personally I find that romantic.

There's nothing threatening to me about a man being that considerate, if he wants to. :)

[bdamomma]

27. no

[TlalocW]

28. Walking on the right side?

I thought that when you're walking down the street, you're supposed to walk so that you're closest to the street - the archaic reasoning being to protect the lady from getting splashed by carriages/cars going through puddles and/or to allow the woman to window-shop as you walk past stores.

TlalocW

[ChairmanAgnostic]

138. it began in London - and carriages were not the 1st reason, but #2

literally, #2. The buildings had no plumbing. In those days, the safest place to avoid flying #2 was right next to the building. The man would have to deal with the shit on his own.

[jobycom]

29. It can be a de-equalizing gesture

If you go out of your way to open doors for women, but not for men, it is treating a woman differently based solely on her gender. The world won't end, her pay won't fall, her promotion potential won't be downgraded--at least not by that one act.

But it is still a division between genders which creates unequal treatment. And unequal treatment is what does cause all the problems with sexism and mysogyny in the country. And at its roots the gesture assumes that women are weaker, that they must be treated with a deference because they have a different role in society than men. It all adds up.

So I don't think it's really a bad thing, and I don't think it's the cause of any problems, but I do believe it is a symptom of the basic problem, and I'll feel we have progressed as a society when it no longer happens.

That's not to say you shouldn't hold the door for people behind you, or who are loaded down with packages, or with a child--regardless of gender. That's courtesy. I'm just talking about going out of one's way to hold a door for someone based on their gender alone.

Just my thoughts. Probably wrong, as always.

[Gormy Cuss]

34. Yes, that is the issue.

The old gentlemanly guidelines come from a time when women were treated like delicate little things in need of male care. The idea is still valid, minus the gender specificity.

Open doors for both genders. Open doors for the fragile-looking or encumbered. Open doors for those older than you as a gesture of respect. It's a sign of good manners and recognition that your small gesture is a kindness to another.

Having said that, I've allowed fragile old men to hold the door open for me because I recognize that it's second nature to them and they would be offended if I refused their kind gesture.

[bread_and_roses]

92. You are absolutely right. (n/t0

[Warpy]

31. It's wrong to let a door close in anyone's face

Gender is irrelevant.

Courtesy, however, is always relevant.

[Orangepeel]

33. of course it is sexist. It's based on sex.

:shrug:

I think it is ridiculous that men would hold the door open for women just because they are women. If it is simply a matter of courtesy, it shouldn't be based on sex. Whoever gets to the door first should hold it open.

Then again, it's also trivial as a manifestation of sexism, so I don't make a big deal of it. I always open the door if I get to it first, but if a man I'm with wants me to go in first (sometimes they will back up to the door, reach over my head to hold it and wait until I go in), I do. I tend to think they are a bit of a dufus for doing it, but I realize they are trying to be nice, so whatever.

[The Straight Story]

35. Depends on if they are hot or not

:rofl:

I open doors all the time for people, just seems the nice thing to do.

[Akoto]

36. I was raised to open doors for both genders.

If I approach a door and there are people behind me, I hold it open and let them go first. It just seems polite to me.

[TygrBright]

37. When? When the woman has her arms full of parcels and he's a step ahead of her?

No. It's not wrong then.

When they're on a date (an explicit "we're courting" date) and he's trying to impress her with his savoir-faire?

No. It's not wrong then.

When she's an elderly woman with a little trouble getting around and he sees her coming in good time to open it for her?

No. It's not wrong then.

Of course, it's not wrong for a man to open a door for a man under those circumstances, either. Or for a woman to open the door for a man.

When they're co-workers going to a meeting and she's a step or two ahead of him with a free hand?

Yes, it's dumb then. She's perfectly capable of opening the door, in fact she may think it's polite to open the door for him since she gets to it first.

If you're not my date, don't go out of your way to impress me with your etiquette-between-the-sexes manners, please. It's not relevant unless our relationship is explicitly on intergender terms. At all other times, it's on interhuman terms and I expect whoever either a) has a free hand and/or b) gets to the door first, will open it for someone they are accompanying.

It's also good interhuman manners, if you reach a door first and open it, and someone you're not accompanying is a step or two behind you, to hold the door open behind you for a second so it doesn't close directly in their face. OTOH, if they're several steps behind you, please, please, PLEASE, JUST LET THE DAMN' THING CLOSE, OKAY? I really hate it when some total stranger a couple of yards ahead of me opens a door and then stands there holding it for me, forcing me to hurry up and not keep them standing there with the door in their hand if I want to be polite in return. Gawd, I hate that.

Sorry. Got off on a little venting tangent, there.

Anyway, that's my tuppennyworth.

helpfully,
Bright

[Kerrytravelers]

38. Common courtesy is never wrong.

If you treat a woman like she's helpless simply because she was born without a penis, then yes, it is wrong. But that would be more of a discussion of one's overall lack of respect. Being polite and doing the common courteous thing to do shouldn't be based on sex, but on being a human being with manners.

[devilgrrl]

39. I couldn't care less.

eom

[Katherine Brengle]

No, just as it isn't "wrong" for a woman to hold a door open for a man. nt

[enid602]

41. yes

Yes, but it much WORSE for men to close doors to women.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

43. A heard a story about a man on a bus.

A woman boarded the bus, and the man got up to offer her the seat.

The woman sneered at him. "You don't have to give me your seat just because I'm a lady," she said.

"I didn't offer you my seat because you're a lady," the man replied. "I offered you my seat because I am a gentleman."

My philosophy is, unless there is an overriding protocol (such as military regulations where officers go through the door first, although an enlisted person should reach the door first and hold it open), a true gentleman always lets others go through first regardless of sex.

[Madspirit]

63. true gentlemen

**Geoff...a true gentleman always lets others go through first regardless of sex.**


Then if everyone was a True Gentlemen, no one would ever move forward. :rofl:
Madspirit

[Geoff R. Casavant]

65. Well, the women would.

While the men stood around like the chipmunks in the Bugs Bunny cartoons: "After you" "No, after you" "Oh, I insist" etc. etc. ad nauseum

Fortunately, there are few of us true gentlemen left.

Perhaps I should have said, a true gentlemen always gives others the opportunity to go first.

[Madspirit]

70. I was just teasing you...

It just struck me as funny. I was picturing it the way you did with the Bugs Bunny cartoon.
Madspirit

[Geoff R. Casavant]

98. No offense taken

I knew after I posted that my imprecise language made me vulnerable to some ribbing. Such is life.

[Nimrod2005]

44. Nobody told me about walking on the right side? Who is on the right? M or F?

[magellan]

109. The custom is the man walks on the outside, nearest the street

It evolved from the days of horses and carriages, when there were no sidewalks as such; the man walked closest to the street to protect the woman from mishaps and splashes of mud, etc.

[Yavin4]

45. If You Don't Open The Door For Them Then How Else Can You Get A Good Look At Their Asses?

Just a little joke. I'm keeding. I'm just keeeding.

[Ghost in the Machine]

95. Point...... Set............ Match!

:spray:

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. And since you said it first... all I have to do is nod in agreement and chuckle to myself. :evilgrin:

:highfive: :hi:

Ghost

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

46. Sometimes, holding a door can mean the world...

I was working a job up in Portland - warehouseman in a big sporting goods outlet. It was a real old-timey place, with warrens of basements under the store itself, and a three-story office building around the corner where we held backstock and incoming. I had to hand-truck huge stacks of stuff around the corner and up the elevator (which had an actual "operator" - an old woman who always smelled like butter) to the upper floors.

I would meet alot of people on the street on my way around the corner, and one day as I was struggling with an unwieldy load, a fellow I had come to know by sight came walking up the street toward me, wobbling with that spastic motion characteristic of people with CP or MS or something like that. You know - the guy you see and you know that every single step of his life has been a struggle, facing untold misunderstanding and suffering.

We arrived simultaneously at the door. He wasn't going in, he just paused and somehow got ahold of the door handle and pulled the door open and held it for me as I jockeyed my load through. I remember - he was grinning from ear to ear. I thought to myself that he might seldom get the chance to do such a thing.

When I got up to the solitude of the warehouse I sat for a few minutes and cried until my glasses need a wiping. The beauty of that moment remains with me even today. A simple gesture.

[aaronbees]

100. That's a beautiful story...

As far as I'm concerned, courtesy and care should never go out of style, no matter the gender of the person to whom we can give it.

:thumbsup:

[BluePatriot]

49. I am indifferent to it, usually

and as a woman see it as more of a custom than anything else. I guess it depends on the approach and context. My FIL always makes it a big deal to run around opening car doors and stuff for me, which I find silly. Maybe low-key is best.

[Ilsa]

51. This doesn't fall under "right " and "wrong" IMO.

To me, it is about ability and courtesy, whether someone is carrying more than me or vice versa. An act of kindness should always be passed around and thanked, whether it is men doing for women, W for M, W for W, etc...

[GumboYaYa]

52. I will open doors (both to cars and buildings) for women, whether I know them or not.

I also say yes maam and no maam (and yes sir and no sir). When I an at dinner with my wife, I pull her chair out for her when we sit. If sheis cold and I have a sweater or jacket, I give it to her. If I am seated on a bus, street car or anywhere else and a woman needs a seat. I stand and offer my seat.

These are all things that I was taught are good manners. Virtually everyone I do these things for appreciates them (although the yes sir and maam thing surprises a lot of people given that I am getting older myself). I can't imagine someone being upset over good manners offered with the best intentions.

[treestar]

54. Not if they let women open doors for them if they have their hands full

or get there later.

[omega minimo]

55. Why did you "find it interesting"?

"So I figured I would try to start it up here because I found it rather interesting."

[goodhue]

58. It's not wrong for people to open doors for other people

If the practice is soley that men open doors for women, and not women for men, men for men, or women for women, then, yes, it is problematic.

[verse18]

59. I'm a woman, but I open doors for others as common courtesy

One thing I've noticed while doing this is a lot of men won't walk through a door if I'm holding it open for them. They'll usually grab the door and tell me to go ahead.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

61. doors I couldn't open in college

When I was in college, the science building had these huge tall aluminum frame double doors with glass inserts and a bar to push on. Well, even with a running start to push on the bar, they wouldn't budge. I weighed about 120 at the time, so I had to wait for a bigger person to come along!!

Opening doors for others is common courtesy. Doesn't bother me a bit and I'm female.

[Madspirit]

62. I assume...

I assume from the flag avatar you are a fellow Texan. Howdy.

The person who gets to the door first should hold it open for the next person.
It's always nice to offer help to people carrying a large or cumbersome load. Gender is irrelevant.

Obviously it is sexist if the behavior is based on the person's gender. That is part of the definition of "sexist".

That doesn't mean it's evil. We are not yet at that "Communal, Utopian, Democratic, No Pre-conceived Notions of any Kind" place yet. You have to pick your battles and I often, NOW, look to the heart of the person in judging what they are doing.

When I was 20 if a man opened a door for me, I yelled..."I can open my own fucking door you sexist jerk." At 52, I say "thank-you." It's not because I've gotten too tired to yell. I yell when I want to. It's because I pick and choose my battles now and if someone doesn't have Jerk Intent why get in an Innocent's face.

I didn't answer your question did I?

Madspirit *off to post on the "High Times" forum*

[Edweird]

64. No it is not wrong

I was raised to hold the door for women and the elderly. My wife loves it. I've never been confronted by anyone because of it.

[Parche]

66. Doors

If it was for either Karen Hughes, Lynne Cheney, or Condoloser Rice-A-Roni I would
open the door............and slam it in their face.

[mainer]

67. As a woman, I'd be much more likely to sleep with him.

So opening doors and acting like a gentleman does have its benefits.

[mtnsnake]

69. Where were women like you when I was young and single?!

:evilgrin:

[sweetheart]

68. It is nice if people are polite to people

I don't view it by sex, its a matter of courtesy at times, and at others, something else.

Each situation is unique, with 2 complex human beings, the chance for humour and the
unexpected outweighs fundamentalism.

[LostinVA]

71. I am female, and hold doors open for people older than myself

And, I always "hold" doors for anyone.

It doesn't bother me. It's just an ingrained courtesy in many people, like shaking hands, etc.

[Mugu]

72. I’m a man in my mid 50’s

and have lived during times when a gentleman was expected to show proper respect for women and have also lived during times when some women would act offended by such gestures.

If I’m with a woman that I know and we’re approaching a non self-opening door, I look to see which side of the door that the hinge is on and then position myself on that side of her. This may require queues to her with my hand on her back/shoulder. About three steps from the door I quicken my pace to get to the door just before her and pull it open for her and then follow. If the door is of the self-opening type, just before we get to the door, I slow my pace and step behind her to allow her to pass through the door first. Either way she enters the building first.

When leaving a building, I position myself on the handle side of the door and then exit first and hold the door for her.

If I find myself approaching an entrance at the same time as a woman who is unknown to me it’s the same basic drill, but now I can’t touch her. I try to watch her body language if I have to reposition myself to be on the hinge side of the door. I don’t like stepping in front of her but I don’t want to frighten her by stepping behind her and then reaching around.

If she’s more than about two paces behind, depending on her body language I may pull the door open and hold it so she can enter first or I might hold the door open behind me and once she has a hold on it proceed on in front of her.

It’s not that much different if it’s another man. If arriving to the door at the same time, whoever is on the hinge side of the door reaches across and pulls the door open and the other gentleman goes first. If one guy reaches the door first he may open and hold the door for those behind him to enter first or he may open and enter while holding the door open behind him. Either is proper.

If the weather is bad, such as rain, gentlemen will always make sure that the womenfolk are able to get to shelter as unimpeded as possible and then regroup inside.

If there is much difference in age, the middle-aged are expected to hold the door for those that are 20 or more years younger or older.


Regards, Mugu

[demgurl]

73. I feel it is a sign of disrespect not to open the door.

My husband says I "trained" him by going up to a door and standing there until he got there and opened it for me. I did not even realize I did that!

My boys are 6 and 7 and I have not had anything but compliments every time they speed ahead of a lady (being careful not to knock her over) and open the door for her. The only thing I have ever heard is that they wish more people did this.

I was teaching a gym class yesterday and a boy tried to weasel in in front of a girl. He got mad and threw a tantrum when she would not let him ahead of her. I sat down the whole class and told the girls it is a sign of respect if the boys let them go ahead of them. I told the boys that it would really impress the girls if they held open doors and let them go in front of them. The girls all raised their hands with examples of times when their dads would treat them like that. One said how her dad would go shopping with her and he would carry all the bags. She continued on telling me how he would open all of the doors while they shopped as well as when they arrived home. Even in grade five it would seem that the girls all noticed things such as that.

I do not feel this is a sign of being sexist. I believe it is a way to show your admiration and respect for someone. Just my two cents worth.

[bread_and_roses]

96. So what if the girl "admires and respects the boy"?

Or a girl "admires and respects" another girl? Or a boy another boy? Or is it somehow only a sign of "admiration and respect" when a boy does it for a girl? And since when these days is gender the sole basis of "admiration and respect?"

Good for the girl who would not let the boy barge his way in front of her. But I can't imagine any other way to describe the little lecture you relate than as sexist.

Have younger women forgotten that in the past we paid very dearly for these little "courtesies?"

[demgurl]

115. Eveything is not always black and white.

And we, as women, do not have to have it one way or the other. I was basically talking for myself and how I feel. Sometimes I feel it is more respectful to be "old fashioned". I once had a guy ask me out and AFTER I accepted he told me it would be dutch. I can understand a guy being short on cash but, for me, you should at least pay for very first date. I gave him some lame excuse and canceled out.

Saying that I am worth being treated well does not mean I do not have the same rights as any other woman. In fact, I may demand more rights than most others do. So many women (and people in general) shy away at feeling they are worth being treated special.If I feel a guy has not treated me properly then I have confronted him with it and expressed my dismay. I am a parent but I am also a working mom. I work out of my own choice, not because I have to or it is expected.

I will never willingly give up any of my rights. With that in mind, I contend that it is fine that I feel I should be spoiled and treated well. Being treated like a lady does not mean that I will not have the right to vote or get an abortion. In fact, I would fight tooth and nail to keep those rights since I have used them in the past myself. Having a guy put you up on a pedestal means they revere you, not that they want you barefoot or pregnant.

Being courteous means having manners, not doing without rights. I used to be treated poorly by guys - that was more my choice of men than anything else. I called up each of those guys and held them accountable for their actions toward me and told them the effects it had.

You call my lecture sexist but I call it teaching respect. I was trying to empower the girls and teach the boys. Our school not only has a rigorous academic schedule but it also teaches a different virtue each month. I guess I could have used the virtue for this month (self-control) but I went a different path and I stand by the path I chose. I teach those around me that as a female you stand up for yourself and demand to be treated a certain way. I teach the girls that each of them are a precious commodity and deserve the best. I will never teach them that in order to be treated well you must give up your rights. You can have rights as well as be treated well. I do not agree with your premise that I must pay with my rights in order to be treated properly.

[bread_and_roses]

116. A pedastal - and sex discrimination -gets damned uncomfortable after a while

You can't sit, walk, run, stretch - even laughing too hard might throw off your balance.

I have no quarell with the standards anyone chooses to impose for their personal relationships. That's a personal matter. ]

What is taught in the classroom is not a personal matter, it is a public matter. The lecture you describe is sexist. "I sat down the whole class and told the girls it is a sign of respect if the boys let them go ahead of them. I told the boys that it would really impress the girls if they held open doors and let them go in front of them."

A sign of respect? Respect for what? The service you are advocating - in the absence, of course, or frailty or other hindrance - is a class-based remnant from a time when women were seen as "frail," in need of protection regardless of their youth, strength, or ability. It is a matter of historical record that that "respect" and "protection" meant that women were denied rights, excluded from opportunity, and subject to legal physical abuse by fathers and spouses.

If you chose to enforce this false "respect" in your class-room, and mandated that all the boys must always wait for all the girls before entering/leaving the room, going to lunch or gym or recess or whatever, some boy's parents would complain of sex discrimination. And rightly so.

[demgurl]

119. I am taking a step back and a deep breath.

I always want to show respect to others and I feel I may have disrespected you in my past post. Often times when you have a different opinion it can be hard to just talk. I think you have your opinion and it is good that you are so strong in your beliefs.

I guess I am strong in what I believe because I know I will not take crap from anyone. The first time my father wrapped his hands around my neck I took out a restraining order and I never talked to him again. No other man has ever even come close to touching me and if they did it might just be the last time they touch anyone. If I had not had my infant son with me when my dad lashed out, I may have done him in and no jury would ever convict me when I could easily get my mom up on the stand to talk about her eardrum that he ruptured.

I am tough because I have come a long way to believe in myself and believe strongly. I grew up,in my formative years, without a dad. I had a mom who was more a socialite than anything else. I do not remember being tucked in even one night. I was ostracized at school and i lost my virginity just to prove that someone...anyone could find me attractive and that I was worth anything.

If, at this point in my life, I feel I am worth it for someone to treat me special then I have come far enough that I believe I have earned it. I have been neglected enough and made to feel lower than low so if a couple of small things like opening doors makes me feel like a princess then so be it.

I did not enforce any rules in my class but I do try to teach any females that they do not need to put up with anything less than what makes them feel special. I have rescued two female friends from abusive relationships and perhaps if they had been told how beautiful they were or how special they were then they would not have let the men in their life abuse them. One was locked in a closet for four days due to an imagined affair on the part of the husband! (She was 43) My husband and I are always on the lookout for people who may be vulnerable and we always let people know how great they are and that they can always turn to us when cornered by a male. (we are very concerned about our niece who is 14 and may be abused by her step dad as well as someone dating our nephew who was physically abused when he was younger)

We all have to do what is right for us. Even though I demand respect form others I still can not give it to myself. I will literally have holes in my clothing or shoes before I replace them. And even though I was given a spa certificate for my birthday, last September, I still have not treated myself to a day at the spa.

I would never do anything that would harm another woman. I do believe that when men acted "properly" that lots of abuse and "ownership" issues did surface. I also believe that these things still go on today depending on the type of guy you end up with. There are always going to be men on all different levels and at one points I only dated men on the low end of the scale. There are also different types of women. There will be those who let men open doors because he is the big strong man. There will be those who do so because it makes them feel special and it shows respect. There will also be those who do it because they are expecting the man to spoil them rotten and treat them like a total princess.

The truth is, there will always be a mix of these types of people and people will treat you the way you feel you deserve to be treated or you will let them go. If you believe you someone deserved that right hook then you will keep allowing it to happen. If you believe you are so much better than that then you most likely will not have gone out with that abusive guy BUT you definitely will leave after the first threat.

I do not believe that abuse and ownership go hand in hand with doors being open. In fact, I would dare say less doors are opened in society today but abuse has gone up.

The basic premise still holds strong: treat others as you wish to be treated. I wish to be treated with respect and so I will apologize if I have come off strong in my posts. Thank you for doing your best to protect all of our rights.

[bread_and_roses]

122. That reply displays a generous spirit.

I will not belabor my ongoing disagreement with your stance in the posts above this one. I honor your strength and determination in becoming your own person.

[demgurl]

125. kenzee...

peace to you, my friend. Have a wonderful night.

[Matariki]

123. why should the guy pay for the first date?

why would you assume that he should? i really don't understand that. is it because *he* asked you, or because he's a guy? if you asked him, would you expect to pay? would you even ask a guy out on a first date?

[demgurl]

131. If I asked someone out then I would pay.

To me, dating is a courtship ritual and the guy is trying to prove to you he is marriage material and how he is worthy of your attention. When the guy first asked me he did not state it was dutch. The night before our date he called and happened to state that it was dutch and that he did not have much money. This is a guy that had tried hard to get my attention. He scoped out the art gallery where I worked as manager. He went in two to three times a week and I could tell he was trying to get up the nerve to ask me out. He finally worked up the nerve and asked me. He was young but that was charming in it's own way. It was cute that he could not even discuss the nudes in the gallery. I guess I just grew up in an a place where everyone knew each other and it was taken for granted that first dates were paid for and doors were opened.

When I was a teenager this guy said something to me. I forget what the guy said but his cousin (who I was dating) was around and physically attacked him for what he said. He was told,in no uncertain terms, that you do not disrespect women in any way. Then again, the last time I went back there they still did not lock their doors!

I have had my fair share of paying if something is done on my end. I remember inviting this guy (now my husband) over to my apartment. I had a meal catered for us and I had candles and music playing. I wined and dined him totally on my dime. I have also sent more than my share of flowers to guys. One guy I dated was a manager in a mall and just about every weekend for a year I sent him flowers. Same thing with a guy in a band that I dated. I dare say I have given a lot more flowers than I have received. But the flowers that touched me the most were on my 17th birthday when my boyfriend went out in his neighbor's yard and gathered a bouquet for me. He showed up at my door with Chinese food (my favorite) and the flowers. That still is a wonderful memory for me and he did not spend a dime on those flowers.

I can also be a female chauvinist sow. Do I want to be treated with respect? Hell yeah. But did that stop me at the ripe old age of 22 from sitting at a table with five girlfriends and we held up rating cards for our male waiter? Nope. One of us even went home with his phone number. Yes, I have had my ugly times just as much as men have shown me. I have learned and moved on. I would never act like that today.

[tammywammy]

132. Whomever asks should pay

That's what I think

[rzr77]

143. very black/white: you enjoy having rights w/o responsibilities

And we, as women, do not have to have it one way or the other.

Cake-and-eat-it-too mentality. You desire traditional female priveleges and modern female rights, with the responsibilities of neither.

Sometimes I feel it is more respectful to be "old fashioned".

Do you do any "old fashioned" things for men to counter these things you expect them to do for you ?

I once had a guy ask me out and AFTER I accepted he told me it would be dutch. I can understand a guy being short on cash but, for me, you should at least pay for very first date. I gave him some lame excuse and canceled out.

Why must he pay for a date you both enjoy equally ? If you realized he liked you, why could you not ask him out ? If you expect men as a class to be financially obligated to women as a class, then your calls for equality in the workplace and other spheres are not credible.

I will never willingly give up any of my rights. With that in mind, I contend that it is fine that I feel I should be spoiled and treated well. Being treated like a lady does not mean that I will not have the right to vote or get an abortion. In fact, I would fight tooth and nail to keep those rights since I have used them in the past myself. Having a guy put you up on a pedestal means they revere you, not that they want you barefoot or pregnant.

You desire superiority, not equality ; rights w/o responsibilities ; to be taken care of ; all of the benefits of both traditionalism and modernism with the obligations of neither.

I used to be treated poorly by guys - that was more my choice of men than anything else.

You were treated poorly by individual men, and as you stated they were your choice. This gives you no right to turn around and ill-treat men as a class, men you don't even know. Respect women? Respect men and everyone else as well.

You can have rights as well as be treated well. I do not agree with your premise that I must pay with my rights in order to be treated properly.

You seem to equate "being treated properly" as being treated in a superior, rather than equal fashion.

You call my lecture sexist but I call it teaching respect. I was trying to empower the girls and teach the boys.

It is sexist. Plain and simple. You believe boys should defer to and worship girls, rather than respect them in an equal fashion. In reality you are disempowering the girls, because the majority of normal men out there (those with a backbone) do not react too nicely to the diva/goddess attitude. Oh, they may pretend when you are young and hot in order to get sex, but secretly they will harbor resentment and intend to exact revenge on women as a class at a later date ; those women are not as pretty or young are the usual recipients of such male wrath, unwitting victims who are made to pay for your princess privileges.


edit: formatting

[demgurl]

168. I am not sure what responsibilities you believe I should have.

I do not believe in my heart, or my mind, that we are equal in almost any way.

Do I believe I can take on any male in a wrestling ring? No.

Do I believe most males would win against a woman in a beauty pageant? No.

Are most women better at hunting than men? For the most part I do not think so although I am sure there are some out there.

Can men cook as well as women? Given the time and practice I believe most could cook much better than any woman in my family. In fact, given a box of Kraft macaroni and cheese I think they could cook better.

There are going to always be things a majority of men do better than women. There will also be things that the majority of women do better than men. I am the one, in my household, who does the nailing and drilling, etc.....Meanwhile, my husband makes a mean breakfast. Actually I make a mean breakfast as well but usually he makes it because he wants a big breakfast and I do some chores. My husband was insanely jealous of me because I was the only one able to breastfeed our children. He insisted on changing every single one of their diapers because he felt the relationship was so unequal.

Since I am unsure of what responsibilities you believe I should have on the traditional way of treating women versus being equal, I am not sure how to address that. I have invited my husband out on dates (before we were married) and I have paid for those dates. I have wined and dined men. When one boyfriend wanted to fly me up to New York for the weekend I would not do it unless he agreed I would pay half. I did not pay toward the hotel but his business took care of that.

I have paid for male friends as well as female friends to come on trips with me. I paid for one of my friends to go to Virginia with me. She did not have much money and so I paid for everything except maybe a soda while we were traveling. I have paid for a condo for a male friend in New York and I surprised him with tickets to a show.

I used to get free concert tickets all of the time and there has been more than one male that had the advantage of knowing me and using the free tickets. There have been dates I brought to the free concerts as well as male and female co-workers.

When my Aunt died my Mom wanted to keep the money for me. She wanted to tuck it away in a different country just in case my husband and I did not stay together. I told her that I would never hide such a thing from him and I disclosed everything to him. And when, as an independent contractor, he did not work steadily for a year I went ahead and took care of our house, mortgage, food, etc...with my money. ("my" being the inheritance, not meaning what is mine is mine and what is his is mine)

My husband works but so do I. I consider any money either of us makes as OUR money but I do not spend it wildly. In fact, it was almost a couple of years after we married before I let him buy wedding rings. Until then, I could not find anything cheap enough. I said I did not care for diamonds and our relationship is what counted, not the rings. We managed to get plain gold bands for about a $100 a piece. That was fine with me.

I was best friends with my husband for almost 15 years before we started to date. I have been married to him for over 8 years. I consider him an equal in every way. I would go to the ends of earth for him and he would do the same for me.

Yes, I admit those guys were my choice and I fully take responsibility for my actions as I stated above. I did not put any blame on them. They are who they are. I let them treat be only as well I believed I deserved to be treated. Nothing more and nothing less. I do respect men. I revere men. I love and sometimes lust after men. Without men this would world would be very boring. Today I was in the bathroom with a pregnant woman. She had trouble with paper towels and I got some from my dispenser. I then congratulated her (she had a had shower at the restaurant) and I held open the door for her. Was that sexist? Perhaps, but I have held the door open for many men and women in my time.

I think for an action to be judged sexist, in this case, you must be psychic. You must be able to see into someone's mind to truly know if they are doing something for just one sex or because they have manners.

[rzr77]

177. biology is not destiny; difference of ability is not difference in humanity

Of course men and women are very different, biologically, psychologically, culturally .. opposites in most regards. I'm man, I'm aware ..

This is why I believe in equity feminism more than "sameness" feminism. There are areas where men on average excel more than women, and vice versa.

However, we're all different, from person to person. This should never translate into favoritism for one class of people at the expense of another.

Iow, you are more than capable of opening your own door, and should not expect men to serve you.

[rzr77]

180. responsibilities you should have ? for starters expect to open your own door

As you stated above, you as a woman, enjoy the rights of modernism and liberalism, which include being treated in an equal fashion by society. With this right comes the responsibility that you should also treat men in this equal, modern, liberal fashion - and not expect him to still have traditional conservative chivalrous responsibilities to you, of the type men had to women back when women were considered nothing more than adult children.

We fought for civil rights to get rid of all that, remember ?

It is ok to expect another person to hold the door for you if they are in front of you in a line, etc. This is just basic manners of one human to another. It is not ok to expect men to go out of their way to hold the door for you, or serve you in any other way, simply because of your gender.

[demgurl]

184. Great, we both agree.

As I wrote in another post, in this thread, I do not expect a man or a woman to open doors for me. I have opened doors for both. It would be very egotistical of me to expect a man to go out of their way to hold open a door for me or serve me in any other way - because of gender or not. I am glad we can agree. And by the way, if I was so egotistical, I believe you would find me quiet a different board than the one we have here.

Off to have date night with hubby. Hope your night is good.

[TahitiNut]

167. There's a difference between 'respect' and 'servility.'

:shrug:

[demgurl]

169. I think most definitions depend on where you see the issue.

I sat here trying to figure out what side of the issue you are on. There are people who believe the woman is a servant if they allow the door to be opened because it shows they believe they are the weaker sex and so they are owned by the male. This means you are their property and they can use and abuse you as they see fit.

Then, on the other side of things, is where I have been accused of trying to be vastly superior and so I assume that means that I feel that men are my play things and they must as I wish at my whim. In this scenario they are then MY servant.

[rzr77]

170. it is sexism against both men and women

against men: because we as a class do not exist to serve you like a princess.

against women: because equal citizens are strong enough to take care of themselves.

[demgurl]

175. I was replying to the 'servility' comment that nut made.

I was not really responding to the sexism question. It would seem that this issue has really touched a raw nerve with you and I am sorry for that. I hope you are treated well by both sexes.

And, as an aside, the last thing I ever want anyone to treat me as is a princess. And I do hate how men get taken advantage of in this society. I would never, in my wildest dreams, ask for spousal support. I think that is a woman's revenge on a man. I hate how 90% of the time it is a woman who gets custody of the children. Things are so unequal and it truly is unfair and those things are sexist.

An old fashioned woman can end up being treated like a piece of furniture buy a male. A modern one can be militant and drive everyone (male and female) away. The beauty of this world, though, is that you can take what you believe in and integrate it into your life. We are a product of so many things in our lives but considering what I grew up with, I think I turned out OK. I do not depend on men for my livelihood. I do not consider myself above or below (no matter what others might think) the average guy. Yeah, I do consider myself to be vastly superior to one guy I know who I turned into child welfare for abusing his kids. And I did drop that one mailman soon as I found out how many married women he had bagged on his route. (told me on our first date!) If being modern means exposing myself to someone with the morals of an alley cat and possibly deadly STD's, forget it!

But if you really want to psychoanalyze someone like me, then let's really get down to the nitty gritty. If you read above then you will find that I had such low self esteem that I lost my virginity just to prove anyone could find me attractive in any way shape or form. My mom was always off at her galas or out on a date. Some of the highlights of my childhood are as follows:

- I kept getting knocked over at a roller skating rink only to find out that a girl in class PAID these other kids to do it.

- My mom's boyfriend came on to me and tried to look down my shirt. Mom kicked him out but two years later I find nude photos of her and him. Thanks, mom, for caring so much about me rather than nude pix of a possible child molester.

- My uncle came onto me and my mom would not believe me until eight years of hounding her and finally confronting her with two friends in the room. Then she got upset at me because wasn't it enough at that point that she would possibly never speak to her own brother again?

- Then there was the time I dug my nails into my uncle's male friend because he was in his 30's coming onto me, a 16 year old. I told my mom exactly what happened after he showed her his cuts the next morning. She said I could have moved and how I acted was wrong. I was grounded for two weeks. That same guy later went to jail for being a scout leader who was taking sexual advantage of one of the boys in his troop.

Do you realize that when I was raped I could not even tell my mother? I knew she would ask what I was wearing and intimate that I was responsible for what happened. I felt so poorly about myself I could not even go to the police lest they blame me as well.

Yes, I felt pretty low. It took a long time to find myself and stand up for others. I do not expect men to cover puddles with their coats. I do not sit back and wait to be fed bon bons by a scantily clad guy. Most guys assume they will pay for dinner and in this world of fake WMD's and lies to illegally occupy a country, if expecting dinner to be paid for or a door to be opened is my biggest crime, I believe I will do well in life. That I have made it through life and feel good about myself is a miracle all onto itself. The fact that I allow a few nice things to be done for me sometimes stuns be because of where I once was.

I do not treat guys as being below me. In fact, I truly love men. I have been out and about and I will walk up to one and show my wedding ring explaining it is not a come-on but telling them how much I like such and such about them. The, again, I have done the same (without the wedding ring comment) to women. It is amazing how you can turn around someone's day by a simple but truthful comment.

We can not decide what is right for others because they are a sum of their parts. It would be a boring world if everyone felt and thought exactly the same things.

The wide range and wonderful variety of people who inhabit this earth means that hardly any of us are truly equals. That is why we, as Democrats, reach out to others and try to help them. That is why we make rules to help those less fortunate than we are whether that is from a handicap or because of economic hardships. In a Utopian world we are all equal and strong enough to take care of ourselves, but in a Utopian world (mine anyway) we reach out and interact in a mannerly fashion with each other.

I have had doors opened for me by men and women. I have not taken offense when neither is ahead of me and they do not open the door. I have opened doors for both sexes. I have given my seat up on subways and buses to children who are tried and cranky.

I do not demand to be treated like a princess, but rather, an open door makes me feel like a princess. Let me repeat that because it sounds so ludicrous: an open door makes me feel like a princess. One small open door makes someone, who never felt loved the first half of her life, feel like a princess. Not foot rubs, not a day at a fancy spa, not $300 pairs of shoes and certainly not being waited on hand and foot. For someone who would not even report a rape to the cops, an open door feels like I have come an awfully wrong way. No cake and eating it to. No responsibility. Just a pat on my own back because I have made it and come out on the other side.

Peace and love to you, my friend.

[geniph]

74. Whoever gets to the door first should open it and hold it,

unless their hands are full or they are otherwise unable to easily do so.

However, it does chap my ass when I hold the door, then sixteen people appear from nowhere and everyone just keeps going through without so much as a thank you. At some point, someone ELSE should take the door-holding duty.

I generally just say thanks and move along. It's sexist to act as if one gender is less able to open the door for another. It's equally sexist to stand there and stare at someone, waiting for them to open the door for you. And not saying thanks or being snotty to the person who holds the door is just being rude.

[FooFootheSnoo]

77. I don't think it's sexist

I'm a woman. Honestly, I think it's rude when a man doesn't hold a door open for a woman. That being said if someone's hands are full or they are elderly or disabled, I'll hold the door for them. The other day I was at work and a janitor was pushing a large pallet full of cleaning supplies down the hall and a woman let the door slam right in front of him. Obviously, I ran ahead of him and held the door so that he could get through. It's not a huge deal. I'm originally from Kansas and men always held doors open for women. Now I live in Florida and I've had a lot of men let the door slam in my face, but there are still some gentlemen here.

[Raine]

78. NO and it's not wrong

for a woman to open a door for a man either...it's just being polite...something that seems to be a often in short supply nowdays...civility and politeness. :-(

[BoneDaddy]

80. I open the door to whomever is following after

gender has no particular importance over this decision although I typically will extend the time I will hold a door for people who are elderly, have a medical condition that is obvious, pregnant women or anyone else who may benefit from extended goodwill.

[Left Is Write]

81. No. Nor is it wrong for a woman to open a door for a man.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

82. Solely because they're women and it's the "polite" thing to do? Absolutely.

Totally sexist, and pisses me the hell off. I think I can manage to open the door on my own, thanks.

Opening the door because you hapened to be there first is fine, and polite, especially if somebody is infirm, or carrying stuff, or burdened with children, etc. But a man racing ahead to open a door for a perfectly capable woman, just because she is a woman, is indeed sexist and demeaning.

[Quantess]

94. Nice attitude.

Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

126. How old are you?

When I was a senior in high school and experienced my feminist awakening, I sounded a LOT like you.

When I was about 25, I realized that my attitudes weren't feminist, but were antisocial.

You'll come to that realization as you mature.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

134. Then what on earth IS feminism?

Perhaps you think there are "higher causes" than door-opening? I doubt there is a hierarchy--more like everything someone does that is sexist is just as sexist and ridiculous as any other thing. It hurts to be seen as something delicate and pretty. That's not me. Until this earth can accept that women can be both pretty AND intelligent, can be nerdy and can be lovable, then I don't think I will be able to rest.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

140. As much as I often disagree with Maddy McCall, she is ABSOLUTELY right on this.

And eventually, you'll come to realize that, at least I hope so.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

141. Then what am I to do?

Come on, people, you offer me no help whatsoever, just mindless platitudes from the likes of Thomas Kinkade.

Please.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

144. "...just mindless platitudes from the likes of Thomas Kinkade."

:rofl:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

152. You like that Rabrrrrrr jab?

:P

:evilgrin:

[petronius]

151. Well, see, that's the other thing you'll realize once you hit 25 or so:

Thomas Kinkade is actually the epitome of beauty and high art. All of us DUers over 30 have walls covered with TK prints (we call it "TK" to sound hip), but we don't mention it here 'cause the young folk make fun of us...

As far as help and platitudes, I don't think it's really that complicated: if you want to open or hold a door, then go right ahead and do it. And if someone makes a point of opening one for you, don't get angry - he's just trying to show you courtesy. Why get angry when no offense is meant?

Most 'rules' of manners and etiquette are illogical, but even the ones that are based on sex don't automatically correspond to sexism or discrimination. (IMO, of course.)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

153. Why do they exist? I think they're vestiges of ridiculousness.

I have no problem with opening doors. If someone is right behind you, you ought to hold the door to keep it from slamming in his/her face, just as you ought to hold it for someone who is infirm, or juggling packages, or swamped with children, etc.

But to walk ahead of a perfectly capable woman already about to open a door, and hold it open for her, solely because it's "polite"/"courteous," is pure dumbassery. Maybe they do it in the deep South, I don't know. Fortunately, I don't see it a lot in the northeast.

[petronius]

156. Much of what we consider proper etiquette/manners is illogical

(you could perhaps even call it dumbassery). Why do we take off hats indoors? Why do we need 12 different forks? What's up with that 'white shoes after labor day' stuff? Why do I have to use both hands to accept a business card from a Japanese caller? Why can't I check my watch every once in a while at a boring cocktail party? Why should I wear black to a funeral? Why can't my wife wear white to a wedding? Etc., etc.

All of these things may be illogical, irrelevant in modern culture, or completely contrived, but they provide opportunities to overtly show respect (appreciation, affection) for other people and for situations. They serve as social glue and social lubricant, despite having no practical purpose.

[The Straight Story]

149. I dunno - it is like respect for your elders kind of thing

Many of us folks have grown up in a society where it is simply 'polite' to open the door for a woman (or anyone else really, as I do often).

It's not that women can't open doors - but growing up with my mom I saw how much women had to do day in and out, and having someone get the door for you was refreshing. It showed that they should be let in first, that they were important, that in some ways men were the doormen for woman because they were important to the day to day functions of this world and you respected that fact.

While all women are different, they do indeed embody that which was my mother - and showing respect to them by opening the door is a way I still show respect to my mother.

She might be dead, but I did it for her and I carry that on as a show of respect to and for her in other women - because I have seen the wonderful things she was capable of doing. She did her best for her family, she cooked for us and all the usual things mom did in the day - but she was also strong and funny. She managed a 24x7 job and did it well. She deserved to have someone hold the door for her.

Maybe you don't, but as a woman you would remind me in some ways of my mom and I would try to show some respect for that. I still say 'Ma'am' a lot when talking to women.

Is it the only area, etc? Nope. But it is one that is ingrained.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

155. But that's just it--I don't expect you to show respect to me by opening a door.

I expect you to show respect for me by looking at my face, not my tits, when I talk to you, to listen to me no matter what you might otherwise think, to not assume that my favorites gifts are jewelry and flowers and perfume, to do laundry and sweep and cook just as I would weed, mow the lawn, and fix broken things.

Feminism to me is all about respect. It's one thing for men to accept women doing "manly" things, and they're starting to get that. But a man who cooks or cleans? My god, he's a faggot, a homo. Women can play "up" to men, but men can't play "down" at the female level? Feminism will be finished not just when a woman can lead, but when a man can be her second-in-command, and not be judged to be a "wimp."

[The Straight Story]

161. I can dig that - but then there are statistics

And we all know how they work out :)

MOST women/men can and do fall into some sort of category. But obviously, not all.

So folks go with the numbers. And it seems to work - From romance novels (which women buy more than men) to action/adventure movies (men like more than women).

Hard to blame a person for doing the best they can on the data they have. Sure it may not include 100% of all people and all their ideals/etc - but it usually works out ok.

See my thread I am getting ready to post on romance....

[Red Right and BLUE]

162. Just what decade did you grow up in?

"But a man who cooks or cleans? My god, he's a faggot, a homo."

Says WHO? I know of ZERO people who would have an issue with my hubby, who does cooking and cleaning, but that's just me.

Bitterrrrrrrr. You like what you like, and that may be different than what a lot of women like... but where's the big deal, here? This seems to consume you and seems to be a HUGE issue when all it really is is that you're unique. We all are. And if you are hanging out with people (willingly or not) who would think thoughts like the one quoted above, then maybe that's a source of irritation for you, and you need to move or get a new job or something.

I don't mean to push your buttons or start an argument; it just seems like a lot of anger that no one should have to carry around. I don't see the point. It's almost like you're punishing yourself for being different. Choose to associate with people who respect you, and overlook the moronic strangers who don't. None of us can change other people. Problem solved.

Sorry, just my opinion.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

165. You're lucky, then, because I see it all the time.

Not just among other high-schoolers, whom I largely throw out the window with regards to so-called culture, as I'm sure they do me.

I don't have anyone who respects me fully, that's the problem. I'm weird for hating yuppie white-bread things like dances and romantic comedies. What would you do if your teenage daughter didn't want to go out on dates for the fuck of it, didn't care much for the company of other teenagers, wanted to be done already with this pretending of innocence and taken out into the real world, already? You'd probably be alarmed, because it's abnormal, unexpected, and shoddy social skills, just as my parents are, and with good reason. I don't want to be a teenager any longer; it sickens me to death. Whoever said that high school was a good time was a black-toothed liar--it's annoying, pedantic, moronic, and useless.

[Red Right and BLUE]

186. Oh.

Well, high school does suck. But it still sounds like you just want to be antisocial. People are going to be stupid in your vicinity for the rest of your life, though. You may as well let go a little bit and enjoy your life as much as you can. I felt the same way in high school, and kept to myself and read. But I don't waste any time focusing on what I can't change about other people. Life's too short. I still think you sound like you're angry with *yourself* for whatever reason, but I'm no therapist.

By the way, I'm sure that people beside 'yuppies' and 'white breads' enjoy dancing and romantic comedy.

[rzr77]

187. Generation Y and their parents are thugs who elected Bush

and who intend to roll back all of the advances of the modern era.

They have a very traditional view of gender, and enforce it aggressively.

I'm a generation ahead, X, and we have the opposite mentality. It is a shame you didnt grow up in the 90's, you would've fit right in. We valued individualism, intelligence and creativity.

Generation Y are nothing more than thugs (jocks, pimps, hos, etc). While they are probably better in terms of racial issues than generation X, they are far bigger bullies against the weak, the homeless, gays, etc.

This is the key difference between the "punk" attitude of gen-x and the "thug" attitude of gen-y: punks rebel against society for the sake of standing up for society's underdogs, while thugs utilize society's majority apparatus to uplift the beautiful and the powerful.

[LostinVA]

190. oh brother

[The Straight Story]

166. You know - part of that is pretty weird :)

"I expect you to show respect for me by looking at my face, not my tits"

That is all fine and dandy, but you are different than many women I have met who spend hours trying to look nice so that others will notice them and their assets.

"when I talk to you, to listen to me no matter what you might otherwise think, to not assume that my favorites gifts are jewelry and flowers and perfume, to do laundry and sweep and cook just as I would weed, mow the lawn, and fix broken things."

Statistically speaking, a lot of women do like those things. Don't bitch at me because advertisers and others have seen the market and use it. My wife likes those things (perfume, and jewelry to some extent). It does not make her 'bad' imho.

As far as cooking and cleaning - I do a lot of that myself. I work a lot, but also do those things. Of course my life is not yours or anyone else's. My wife is ill, so I have to step up to the plate and do a lot of things.

The old way of thinking I don't think was all that bad. Let me try and summarize it:

- The man went off to work, the woman stayed at home and took care of the kids, dinner, laundry, et al.
- The man worked until he was 65 for some dumb ass corporation where he was treated like shit
- The Woman worked 18-25 years (based on ages of the kids), her workday was spread out more but she got to 'retire' much earlier and spend her days doing exactly as she liked.
- the guy worked from the time he was 20 until 65, 45 years.
- The woman worked from 20 until in her early 40's - but the man respected how hard that work was and did things like open the door for her, etc and so on.

There were, and are, trade offs. Simple fact is though that MOST relationships were and are like this in our society. The man took the 8-5 for 45 years, the woman took the round the clock from 20-42 or so.

It was teamwork, one brought in the money, the other took care of all the other issues.

The guy could be fired at any time if he did not jump through hoops. The woman had a job that she could not be fired from. Each had their roles they accepted and worked as a team for their family and goals.

Perfect? No. Representative of all people? Nope. But did most people live like this for many years? Yes.

So the majority made ways that they all could get along with. Including opening doors for people.

You don't like it? Fine - but you might well be in the minority, so why should many others not enjoy what they like?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

171. See, I find that "old way of thinking" horrible.

Perhaps it is just because I personally am not domestic, and might go loco if made to stay at home and clean, cook, take care of children, etc.

Most women do like perfume, etc., but it should not be assumed that we all do. Majority rules, but with respect for minority rights, with the knowledge that, yes, there are men who like "womanly" things, and women who like "manly" things--which are stupid labels on things anyhow. (Gender roles are another huge issue with me, since I find this stereotyping another moronic thing in the way of equality.)

Women are absolutely equal on paper. Are they equal in practice? I say they are not, not until even the minority of us are honored.

[The Straight Story]

173. And therein is the answer

"Perhaps it is just because I personally am not domestic, and might go loco if made to stay at home and clean, cook, take care of children, etc."

First off, I think the term 'domestic' is misunderstood. But that is another discussion.

As you noted, it is not the life for you. In fact, it is a hard life (My neighbor is not a stay at home mom, after working for years - and it is so hard and such a change she is seeing a psych).

Given the roles forced on men (and yeah, we have had roles forced on us as you have had) and the fact that many men have seen how hard it is on women, that is but one reason we are so respectful that we open doors for you.

Sometimes the minority of people in a situation are offended - but to me they need to look beyond their personal lives and see the big picture.

The avg guy is trying to do right by the avg girl - and just because you and I may not be average does not mean that they suck.

We see things differently perhaps than they do, and to me being tolerant means accepting the fact that someone holds the door for you does not mean they think you less of a person.

If we want to be truly tolerant, sometimes we have to accept people as they are - and not try to make them into what WE want them to be.

[rzr77]

174. Precisely. We are not all Ken and Barbie,

even though this decade the dumbo men and the women who love them have revived all of these 1950's beliefs and practices.

Like I said, it all has to do with 9-11 and the child-like "feminine" women who "feel safe" with macho, stupid, swaggering, war mongering shitbrains like Bush.

Even if they are the majority, they have the responsibility to at least acknowledge the large minority who does not agree with their (dumbass) worldview.

[porphyrian]

83. Short answer, no.

Less short answer, no, because it is no longer necessarily a gender-specific behavior - it's simply polite, at least, for many.

[mmonk]

84. Well, it's something my mother taught me to do

and she was a woman. The thing is I open the door for either sex. Have I ever gotten a nasty reaction from a woman before while doing it? Yes, but I consider it that person's problem, not mine. They don't know me so their judgement is erroneous. They don't what's in my heart.

[Hekate]

85. The young and able should be right on it regardless of gender.I've done that...

...However, over time both my shoulders have more or less given out, and heavy doors cause me pain. If no one else is there, I literally lean one whole side of my body into the task just to spare my shoulders. If someone makes the gesture, I smile and thank them. If someone more decrepit than me is there, I go ahead and shove the door open for them.

And finally, if a gentleman of whatever age wants to open the door for me I consider it an act of good manners deserving my very best smile. I've been a feminist for 40 years, and have never considered this gesture anything but sweet.

Hekate

[133724]

87. My life changed on 9-11

Not in the way you might think; but rather in the way I think about others. I find in reflecting that I am much more courtious, much kinder and more willing to open doors for others.

Not just doors that in or out of a building but real doors. So far I have been able to help a number of small business. non-profits get started or work their way out of problems. I enjoy it. It is a really great feeling to see someone you have worked with succeed. It is even better to see them grow and help others; kind of like paying it forward...

and BTW it is still nice to see the smile on an old ladies face when you open a door for her....

[nealmhughes]

91. Yes, and men, too.

If a train car is getting full I will take the strap or pole, also. I'm 45, walk about 5 miles daily and don't need any special assistance from anyone, unless I am ever on crutches again!

I also walk blind people to their platforms when in Grand Central or Penn Stations.

Had a lot more opportunity to do it when I lived in NY, but I find that New Yawkahs are actually publicly a lot more polite than they are given credit in the general public. There is nothing like a beautiful spring day in the village when the young women are out in their first summer dresses of the season and the flower carts are overflowing. I get to walk up to sidewalk cafes and hand one each to the women who are having coffee or ice cream on the sidewalk cafes.

I also hold building doors open for people who are holding packages for them to enter, and have also pulled baggage carts for women with babies in arms at airport.

Sorry, I was born in Tennessee, and am Virginia-bred.

[bread_and_roses]

93. It is an act rooted in sexism, as posters upthread note

Of course it is simple courtesy for anyone, man or woman, to hold a door for anyone - man or woman - who is frail, burdened, or who has a child in tow. But that was not the question asked. The question was framed in terms of men performing this service to women as an expected service due them simply because they are female.

As framed in the OP, it is a sexist anachronism.

The origins of such archaic forms are rooted in a belief system that relegated women to a lesser humanity than men.

And I seriosly doubt that the men of the Elizabethean or Victorian eras performed these courtesies for the servant "girls" in their homes or the prositutes they frequented. I would surmise that these "manners" are rooted in classism as well as sexism.

[mdmc]

97. Not at all

Sometimes my ex would beat me to the door. She would open the door for me and curtsy. "After you, Sir."
I never thought that this was reverse sexism.

[BlooInBloo]

99. If I think about it, I'll (hold) open the door for anyone....

... But I admit to being more likely to think about it if there's a woman nearby.

(Not making a statement of right/wrong, just reporting what I *actually* do.)


EDIT: And if it's sexist for me, as a straight man, to have a stronger desire to do nice things for women than for men, tough - the theoretically potential reward is bigger.

[gristy]

101. Well, I'm going to be different

If I'm on a date I'll hold the door open and let her go through first. More often I'm just at work. Then I will go through first and hold it open until the next person (assuming they are within 3 or 4 paces) can get hold of the handle. Then I keep on going. This just seems to be the most efficient to me. Anything more than that seems like a flourish. If someone holds the door open for me at work it makes me oddly uncomfortable.

I learned this technique high school, I now remember. There was a breezeway that hundreds of kids had to fly through between classes, with doors at each end. Everyone was very practiced on getting through the way I just described. Anything different would have been just nuts.

[Nicole]

102. No, not at all

I open the door for them as well, if I get there first or their hands are full. Good manners are never wrong.

[rzr77]

103. Seems like small thing, but it's wrong on all levels !

Firstly, if one believes in equality, it is wrong for one class of people (men) to be culturally forced servants to another class (women).

Secondly, it implies all women are weaker and want to be served, and that all men are stronger and want to serve. This is not the case.

But most of all, from my individualist, male, generation x perspective - I absolutely hate hate hate culturally forced chivalry. Hey, it's ok if other (dumb) guys want to do it, but I give you no right to force me to give up my seat, open a door, etc for some woman I don't even know. Hold the door yourself lady, grow up and be the equal citizen you're supposed to be. My life is just as important as yours, I don't exist to protect you just because I'm a man.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

105. I agree.

Opening the door for somebody unable to do it, or because you're in a long line of people going through a door and so you hold the door so it doesn't slam on the person right on your heels, is polite and general good courtesy. Going out of one's way to do it is pretentious, boring, and certainly an eyebrow-raiser.

If people on a subway, etc. look like they might honestly want to sit down, the polite thing to do is to ask first. ("Would you like to sit down? I don't mind at all getting up.") Assuming that a woman who looks older or a pregnant woman wants to sit down is a bit much. They might well be getting off in one stop, so what's the other.

[LostinVA]

142. oh boy

[magellan]

107. No, I like it when a man opens a door for me

I open doors for others regardless of gender out of common courtesy, but I'm old-fashioned when it comes to men opening doors for women. I take it as a sign of respect, just like when a man rises from the table (out at a restaurant) when a woman excuses herself or returns.

It's not a big deal to me if a man doesn't do these things -- my husband doesn't. But I do enjoy the times I'm treated like a lady.

[MiniMe]

110. You could ask "Is it wrong for a younger person to open doors for senior citizens?"

Is it age discrimination or being polite? I vote for being polite. I'm with the group, whoever gets there first should open the door, although I do make a point of opening doors for people on crutches, or with young children with a stroller, or a senior citizen.

[B Calm]

113. So what does this have to do with politics?

[youthere]

114. Not wrong or sexist at all.

It's basic manners.
I love the fact that after nearly twenty years of marriage my husband holds the door for me (and will open the car door for me as well-even if we're just going to the post office). My children have picked up on this as well, and my son will run to open the car door for me when we go any where, and will "stand guard" the the gas station so he can open the door for all the customers entering and exiting.
Courteous does not mean sexist!

[slackmaster]

117. Does it have to be right or wrong?

:wtf:

...I have encountered individuals who claimed it was sexist to do such things....

There are people who insist on seeing sexism everywhere. They're dumbasses.

[Cleita]

118. You are confusing cultural practices with ideology.

As a woman, I always appreciate it when a man opens a door, helps me out of the car and many of the other rules of etiquette that honestly date back to a time when women wore clothes that required some help from the gentlemen to maneuver oneself around the house and town.

However, I too have held open doors for people on walkers, those carrying packages or children and who otherwise can use some assistance. I have given up seats on the bus for the elderly or pregnant women as well. So politeness is not just gender specific.

Also, in my single days, I have been known to get better aquainted with a man who did hold a door open for me, whom I had to acknowledge with a smile and thank you. If he hadn't held the door open for me I would have gone on my way never noticing him.

[baby_mouse]

120. It's just politeness!

I was brought up to open doors for everybody. I don't understand this "doors open for women" thing. I've always held doors open for everybody, it's just polite.

[Maddy McCall]

127. Not sexist. It's polite.

The same people who complain about men opening doors for women (and I open doors for elderly men and women, btw) are the ones smacking food while they talk loudly on their cell phones.

[Ariana Celeste]

128. It's a very nice thing to do.

I open doors or hold open doors for men and women, and love it when the same is done for me- especially by a stranger! I'm not so in love with my vagina that I can't appreciate a nice gesture.

[kimsterdemster]

129. either gender...

i hold doors open all the time for anyone if possible, but go out of the way to do it for an elderly person.

[rzr77]

130. this is SEXISM ... against MALES

and females who wish to be treated like equal citizens, instead of some pampered, entitled, overgrown child-like, princess, brat...

What was the civil rights movement for ?

I think this move towards traditionalism this decade has almost solely been driven by women, mainly those who were "freaked out" by 9-11. Imo, they're reverting to some type of child-like, fetal feminine persona from the past .. one of the main reasons Bush was re-elected.. machismo .. it's not just for men anymore.

Opening doors seems small, but it speaks more to a cultural expectation that men be the macho protector of women. It's the same mentality that subjects men/boys only to the draft/selective service, while women still get away from this. Hey, if women want equal rights, they should also have the responsibilites to protect their rights.

As an individualist male I deeply resent this, and I know many other young men (we grew up post civil rights era and were raised to treat women and everyone else equally) who feel this way, but are culturally pressured to shut up and go along. We value our lives just as much as a females value theirs. I don't exist to serve you just because I have a y chromosome.

That may sound "punk ass", but may I remind you, it is "thinking men" like me who usually stand up for rights, including the rights of women, when the so-called "real men" women seem to be in love with these days would shove them right back in the kitchen.

[Warren DeMontague]

133. Whoa, dude! Bitter much?

It's a door, Jack. Personally, I'll hold it for whoever is behind me. Basic human courtesy, like saying "thanks" and tipping the pizza guy.

Welcome to DU.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

136. Yes, it does hurt.

I don't expect anyone to serve me. It's numbingly idiotic. I should want, should I ever want it, to find somebody more like you than like a moronic chivalrous braindeader.

[ForrestGump]

163. "Thinking men"? I hear what you're saying, but, dude,

it's just a door.

And I seem to agree with most here -- it's just politeness. I open doors and hold them open for everyone...the only times I've wished I didn't are when some doofus (usually a male...probably a punk-ass, individualist, thinking male) just waltzes through without even acknowledging the courtesy, let alone catching hold of the door to pas the courtesy on to those behind him.

Well, I'm off to get exploited by women. Maybe later we can get together and burn our jockstraps, in solidarity against this repression we suffer at the hands of our XX-chromosomed oppressors (I'm serious, and I know all too well of what I speak: you see, I was married....).

[rzr77]

172. You (and many others) are missing the point of this thread

The question was not about civility of one person to another regardless of gender, race or other innate factor. I hold the door for whoever is behind me, or if a person appears to be old or handicapped or otherwise disabled and in need of assistance.

The question at hand relates to the ethical and/or ideological correctness of a traditional practice : that of men opening doors for able bodied women.

I and many others are saying in no uncertain terms: its is wrong, for the many reasons we've outlined.

You and other chivalrous men may feel the (self esteem dependent) need to serve women; I do not, and I give you no right to pressure me culturally or otherwise. On numerous occasions I have been met with stares from such males (and I simply stare back, if they want a fight I'm always ready for one) and huffs from entitled females waiting by a door for me to open it (I tend to enjoy walking up to the door, pretending to open it, then closing it just as they're about to walk through..haha).

I guess the principled, punk ass spirit dies hard. :headbang: :evilgrin:

[ForrestGump]

182. You don't know me well enough to call me

chivalrous.

And the "self esteem dependent" crap is an even bigger assumption.

I'm sure you have to be ready for a fight, at all times, if your idea of a good time is to pretend to open a door and then close it in someone's face. That's not a principled person...that's an asshole.

Though I'm sure you don't know yourself well enough to recognize this truth....

[LostinVA]

191. Jeebus Christ

[ChairmanAgnostic]

135. I am taller, stronger, and more able to open doors.

I have, since childhood, and I continue to, through my curmudgeon period, open doors for women. Then again, I open doors for everyone.

[KoKo]

137. No...but if they don't offer...it pisses me off and silently I think they

are a jerk. But, it's just something I note...and I'm capable of opening my own doors ...but still like the courtesy. It's kind of a dead word and custom, though..."courtesy." Why should guys be "courteous" to gals? What's important about it?

I really don't have an answer. Depends on when one grew up, I guess.

[Rosemary2205]

139. One of the really great things about living in the south.

men here seem to like opening and holding the door in return for a simple smile and a thank you. No I don't expect it, but I appreciate it.

We've lost too many of our manners.

[NashVegas]

188. It's Something I've Gotten Used To

In the dozen or so years since I moved South.

At first it was irritating. "What? Don't I look able bodied to you?" "Is this a battle to see who's more polite?" Those were my thoughts.

Life's been an interesting journey. It's taken me a long time to understand that there are some things that men are trained to do in order to make themselves useful. I know I can get the door myself, and so does he; it's not going to kill me to allow a man to feel he's done a good deed.

As long as he doesn't stand in the doorway so I'm forced to go in sideways or else brush up against him. Unless he's good looking, then I don't mind so much :)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

145. No, I do it all the time.

[Zodiak]

146. I've taken a slap in the face for it.

It never occurred to me that some women are so bottled up with anger that they would physically assault a man for this small act. But it happened to me (New York).

I haven't changed my behavior on bit, though. 99.99999999% of the time, people are glad that someone cares enough about others to open a door.

[omega minimo]

147. Where is the OP, what "other board" did he drag this in from, why the hell is this at the top of GD?

"Anyways, there was a discussion about this subject on another forum about this subject(but they are not really the brightest people, lol) So I figured I would try to start it up here because I found it rather interesting."




RGBOLEN GAVE THE ANSWER IN REPLY #1 :hi:

[kestrel91316]

148. If a man wishes to go out of his way to hold a door open for a

woman, that's his business. He should not expect a medal for doing so.

Generally, whoever gets to a door first holds it open for the next person, regardless of gender. You go through, and just don't want to let it shut on the next guy.

[progressivebydesign]

150. Nope. I'm a female and I open doors for everyone.. it's MANNERS.

I don't mind if a guy or a girl opens a door for me. I just hate when they let it shut in your face.. that's rude.

[dysfunctional press]

157. i open doors for men and women...

whoever is in position to do so, should- it's called being polite.

in the immortal and angry words of george costanza: "we live in a Society!"...

[Red Right and BLUE]

158. I like it.

but i don't wait. If I get there first, I just open it first. And I don't let the door close when i see that someone is approaching. SO RUDE.

[auntAgonist]

160. good manners are never out of place ... so NO

It's not wrong for man to open a door for a woman, but... neither is it wrong for a woman to open the door for a man. I often hold a door open for people such as moms with babies, elderly, someone with a cane, a walker. It's just good manners.

do unto others and all that.


aA

[kerry-is-my-prez]

164. I'm a woman and I open doors for men and anyone who happens to come by.

I don't think it's that much of an issue anymore.

[shadowknows69]

176. Sexist or not

I choose to err on the side of chivalry.

[Blue_In_AK]

178. I often step aside

and let my husband open the door for me just because he's an old-fashioned gentleman, and it makes him feel good, although my preference is not to be waited on. It's really a nonissue for us.

[Clark2008]

179. Doesn't bother me - in fact, while I'm pregnant, it's actually

a great help.

Since my back aches and my fingers are pudgy with water retention, having someone give me a hand with anything is a blessing.

:)

[oblivious]

181. I think you should make this a poll.

But without the 'right' and 'wrong' aspect.

Also, what do you think about men standing as a woman approaches the table?

[mondo joe]

183. It's polite to open doors for others. It is sexist to do it based simply on gender.

Or to expect it to be done because of gender.

[MyNameGoesHere]

185. yes no maybe

There i answered that DU style.

[Scout]

189. No, it's not wrong. But be "natural" about it ...

i.e., don't rush ahead and be obvious, just do it naturally if you get there at the right time. Don't be pissed if the woman doesn't seem as grateful as you think she should, which does happen sometimes. Granted, I think the woman could be polite about it and say thank you but it's not a big deal if she doesn't.

Open the door for other men too. It's just common courtesy.

I'm female and I'll open or hold the door for a man sometimes, depends on the timing. I also do it for other women. Again, it's just common courtesy and being kind.